wild idea about why the tent situated on the slope

[tenne]

this is a really wild out there theory and I totally acknowledge that but I was thinking why in the world would 9 experienced campers camp in a dangerously exposed place without lighting a fire?

the tent there would be very obvious to anyone, so hiding isn't the reason in my opinion

just doing some reading about possible defection etc and I can't help but wonder if the group was planning to meet up with a helicopter for some reason and that is why they were camped there.

someone else either found them first or tricked them, i.e. a set up

there are many more knowledgeable people on here about the facts of the case so what do they think?

[Олег Таймень]

this is a really wild out there theory and I totally acknowledge that but I was thinking why in the world would 9 experienced campers camp in a dangerously exposed place without lighting a fire?

the tent there would be very obvious to anyone, so hiding isn't the reason in my opinion

just doing some reading about possible defection etc and I can't help but wonder if the group was planning to meet up with a helicopter for some reason and that is why they were camped there.

someone else either found them first or tricked them, i.e. a set up

there are many more knowledgeable people on here about the facts of the case so what do they think?

The place is not dangerous. The place is ordinary. They set up a tent and went downstairs to get rock samples. They brought similar samples from each trip. Yudin took one of the samples to Sverdlovsk. They were looking for uranium deposits for the country. They lit a fire downstairs and had lunch. They planted an explosive charge, received from geologists in the 41st block, to expose the rock. But, the charge worked prematurely. Some died, the rest received severe concussion. The geologists who were involved learned about the tragedy and quit, fled in all directions. Sulman hid the tragedy so as not to suffer himself. For this, sappers were asked in radiograms. For this reason, Kikoin also came.
Вот русский перевод. А то фигня какая то на английском языке получилась.
Место не опасное. Место обычное. Они поставили палатку и отправились вниз для получения образцов горной породы. Подобные образцы они приносили с каждого похода. Юдин один из образцов повёз в Свердловск. Искали для страны залежи урана. Внизу развели костёр и пообедали. Заложили заряд взрывчатки, полученный от геологов на 41 квартале, для обнажения скальника. Но, заряд сработал преждевременно. Некоторые погибли, остальные получили сильнейшую контузию. Геологи, которые причастны, узнали о трагедии и уволились, разбежались кто куда. Сульман скрыл трагедию, что бы самому не пострадать. Для этого и сапёров просили в радиограммах. По этой причине и Кикоин приезжал.

[tenne]

Setting up a tent on an exposed slope with no camp stove is not what experienced people do. In fact, when skiing, a slope that could potentially have an avalanche is crossed one skier at a time in case they knock something down when they cross

The rest of your statement is quite intriguing to me, I haven't seen anything about collecting samples other than Yudin who took them home with him but that does make sense

[Олег Таймень]

Setting up a tent on an exposed slope with no camp stove is not what experienced people do. In fact, when skiing, a slope that could potentially have an avalanche is crossed one skier at a time in case they knock something down when they cross

The rest of your statement is quite intriguing to me, I haven't seen anything about collecting samples other than Yudin who took them home with him but that does make sense

This is exactly what experienced travelers do. Watch the video in the next thread: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1190.msg19805#msg19805

[Олег Таймень]

Setting up a tent on an exposed slope with no camp stove is not what experienced people do. In fact, when skiing, a slope that could potentially have an avalanche is crossed one skier at a time in case they knock something down when they cross

The rest of your statement is quite intriguing to me, I haven't seen anything about collecting samples other than Yudin who took them home with him but that does make sense

Geological samples were brought from a hike in Altai and handed over to Professor Arkhangelsky from the Geological Faculty of the UPI. This was told by Arkhangelsky himself.
In 1958, they also started a trip along the Subpolar Urals with a visit to the mine. They looked at geological samples. There are photos.

[Зайцев]

this is a really wild out there theory and I totally acknowledge that but I was thinking why in the world would 9 experienced campers camp in a dangerously exposed place without lighting a fire?

the tent there would be very obvious to anyone, so hiding isn't the reason in my opinion

just doing some reading about possible defection etc and I can't help but wonder if the group was planning to meet up with a helicopter for some reason and that is why they were camped there.

someone else either found them first or tricked them, i.e. a set up

there are many more knowledgeable people on here about the facts of the case so what do they think?

The place is not dangerous. The place is ordinary. They set up a tent and went downstairs to get rock samples. They brought similar samples from each trip. Yudin took one of the samples to Sverdlovsk. They were looking for uranium deposits for the country. They lit a fire downstairs and had lunch. They planted an explosive charge, received from geologists in the 41st block, to expose the rock. But, the charge worked prematurely. Some died, the rest received severe concussion. The geologists who were involved learned about the tragedy and quit, fled in all directions. Sulman hid the tragedy so as not to suffer himself. For this, sappers were asked in radiograms. For this reason, Kikoin also came.
Вот русский перевод. А то фигня какая то на английском языке получилась.
Место не опасное. Место обычное. Они поставили палатку и отправились вниз для получения образцов горной породы. Подобные образцы они приносили с каждого похода. Юдин один из образцов повёз в Свердловск. Искали для страны залежи урана. Внизу развели костёр и пообедали. Заложили заряд взрывчатки, полученный от геологов на 41 квартале, для обнажения скальника. Но, заряд сработал преждевременно. Некоторые погибли, остальные получили сильнейшую контузию. Геологи, которые причастны, узнали о трагедии и уволились, разбежались кто куда. Сульман скрыл трагедию, что бы самому не пострадать. Для этого и сапёров просили в радиограммах. По этой причине и Кикоин приезжал.

Вот интересно, как в 1959 году производилась сейсморазведка полезных ископаемых, нефти, газа и т.д.? Какие действия предпринимали геологи ? Вы это изучали ?

[tenne]

I am intrigued by the idea that they set up the tent as a very visible flag for where they were and then went down to the bottom of the hill to light the fire to wait for whoever.

while I can't comment on safety measures there, as according to a lot of people what is common sense here isn't considered common sense there but common sense isn't common. Common sense is very much what is the norm in a given place, I have never ridden in a subway so I have zero common sense about riding them.

Here, we have unstable snow so any slope is a danger and is treated as such. Very likely not the same there and I respect that

however, I can't think of a single northern country where establishing a heat source is not the #1 priority when winter camping. Heat is necessary to survival, to keep warm, to get melted water to drink and to dry out clothing.

[tenne]

Если бы я правильно перевела ваш вопрос, то мне тоже был бы очень интересен ответ

Если бы я правильно перевела ваш вопрос, то мне тоже был бы очень интересен ответ

[Почемучка]

Вот интересно, как в 1959 году производилась сейсморазведка полезных ископаемых, нефти, газа и т.д.? Какие действия предпринимали геологи ? Вы это изучали ?

Г.К. Григорьев - изучал
https://i.ibb.co/0Y7g7D0/DSCN1015.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1bW5rfG/DSCN0121.jpg

[Почемучка]

this is a really wild out there theory and I totally acknowledge that but I was thinking why in the world would 9 experienced campers camp in a dangerously exposed place without lighting a fire?

[Зайцев]

Вот интересно, как в 1959 году производилась сейсморазведка полезных ископаемых, нефти, газа и т.д.? Какие действия предпринимали геологи ? Вы это изучали ?

Г.К. Григорьев - изучал
https://i.ibb.co/0Y7g7D0/DSCN1015.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1bW5rfG/DSCN0121.jpg

Какое оборудование было нужно для сейсморазведки и сколько оно весило ?

[Зайцев]

this is a really wild out there theory and I totally acknowledge that but I was thinking why in the world would 9 experienced campers camp in a dangerously exposed place without lighting a fire?

the tent there would be very obvious to anyone, so hiding isn't the reason in my opinion

just doing some reading about possible defection etc and I can't help but wonder if the group was planning to meet up with a helicopter for some reason and that is why they were camped there.

someone else either found them first or tricked them, i.e. a set up

there are many more knowledgeable people on here about the facts of the case so what do they think?

The place is not dangerous. The place is ordinary. They set up a tent and went downstairs to get rock samples. They brought similar samples from each trip. Yudin took one of the samples to Sverdlovsk. They were looking for uranium deposits for the country. They lit a fire downstairs and had lunch. They planted an explosive charge, received from geologists in the 41st block, to expose the rock. But, the charge worked prematurely. Some died, the rest received severe concussion. The geologists who were involved learned about the tragedy and quit, fled in all directions. Sulman hid the tragedy so as not to suffer himself. For this, sappers were asked in radiograms. For this reason, Kikoin also came.
Вот русский перевод. А то фигня какая то на английском языке получилась.
Место не опасное. Место обычное. Они поставили палатку и отправились вниз для получения образцов горной породы. Подобные образцы они приносили с каждого похода. Юдин один из образцов повёз в Свердловск. Искали для страны залежи урана. Внизу развели костёр и пообедали. Заложили заряд взрывчатки, полученный от геологов на 41 квартале, для обнажения скальника. Но, заряд сработал преждевременно. Некоторые погибли, остальные получили сильнейшую контузию. Геологи, которые причастны, узнали о трагедии и уволились, разбежались кто куда. Сульман скрыл трагедию, что бы самому не пострадать. Для этого и сапёров просили в радиограммах. По этой причине и Кикоин приезжал.

Мог Огнев дать им взрывчатку, а потом скрыться от дачи показаний ? Или умышленно его скрыли ?

[GlennM]

The place is not dangerous. The place is ordinary. They set up a tent and went downstairs to get rock samples. They brought similar samples from each trip. Yudin took one of the samples to Sverdlovsk. They were looking for uranium deposits for the country. They lit a fire downstairs and had lunch. They planted an explosive charge, received from geologists in the 41st block, to expose the rock. But, the charge worked prematurely. Some died, the rest received severe concussion. The geologists who were involved learned about the tragedy and quit, fled in all directions. Sulman hid the tragedy so as not to suffer himself. For this, sappers were asked in radiograms. For this reason, Kikoin also came.

But, you don't go using explosives to go prospecting with out your shoes, yes?

[Manti]

Multiple of them were apparently bleeding from the ear. This is not common unless they suffered "blast injuries". One would think, surely, that's impossible. They were in a pristine forest.

But if they had a charge that set off prematurely, that would explain it. Also the burn marks. Otherwise, is it also possible that this area contained mines (I mean anti-personnel / anti-tank mines. Not geological mines) from world war I times?

[Почемучка]

Какое оборудование было нужно для сейсморазведки и сколько оно весило ?

https://neftegaz.ru/tech-library/geologiya-poleznykh-iskopaemykh/142500-seysmorazvedochnye-raboty/
http://m.energyland.info/index.php?action=analiticview&id=99293&offset=450&limit=10

[Почемучка]

Multiple of them were apparently bleeding from the ear.

Где Вы это узнали? Ни один из актов вскрытия не дает такого описания. Если Вы поняли именно так - то это ошибка перевода.

Where did you find out? None of the autopsy reports gives such a description. If you understand it this way, then it is a translation error.

But if they had a charge that set off prematurely, that would explain it. Also the burn marks. Otherwise, is it also possible that this area contained mines (I mean anti-personnel / anti-tank mines. Not geological mines) from world war I times?

Абсолютно исключено. Военных действий на склоне 1079 не проводилось никогда. Геологи там ходили. Но это при этом самым ужасным орудием у них был - геологический молоток. Взрывные работы они вели, когда уже с помощью этого геологического молотка были получены нужные образцы полезных ископаемых или породы, являющейся спутником искомых полезных ископаемых.
https://www.alv.me/pro-geologicheskie-molotki/


Если Вы предполагаете какой-нибудь схрон (тайник) вооружений оставленный во время  гражданской войны или схрон заброшенных фашистских диверсантов во время второй мировой войны - то это тоже исключено. С тем же успехом можно было делать такой схрон на побережье Северного ледовитого океана.

Absolutely out of the question. Military operations on slope 1079 have never been carried out. Geologists have been there. But at the same time, this was the most terrible tool they had - a geological hammer. He carried out explosive work when, with the help of this geological hammer, the necessary samples of minerals or rock, which is a companion of the desired minerals, were obtained.
If you assume any cache (cache) of weapons left during the civil war or caches of abandoned fascist saboteurs during the Second World War, then this is also excluded. With the same success it was possible to make such caches on the coast of the Arctic Ocean.

[Зайцев]

Multiple of them were apparently bleeding from the ear. This is not common unless they suffered "blast injuries". One would think, surely, that's impossible. They were in a pristine forest.

But if they had a charge that set off prematurely, that would explain it. Also the burn marks. Otherwise, is it also possible that this area contained mines (I mean anti-personnel / anti-tank mines. Not geological mines) from world war I times?

Помню, в телеграм-чате с Тайменем спорила Евгения, геолог с Якутска. Так вот она доказывала, что группа Дятлова подорвалась на старой геологической закладке, которая когда-то не сработала. Т.е. в этом районе ранее работали геологи и одна взрывчатка не взорвалась. Такое случалось часто в те времена.

[marieuk]

I think the tent could have been pitched on the slope to give them the advantage of being able to see anyone coming.   People have speculated they used cuts in the tent to observe what was happening outside.  Not entirely sure, who they thought might be coming their way, but it is another option.  How easy would it be to find the tent on the slope in the dark?   The explosive idea makes a lot of sense, but as GlennM stated, why were they not wearing shoes and what happened to their clothes? What injuries would you expect from an explosion?  Would there be shrapnel type injuries, different fractures, missing body parts etc?   Also, they died approximately 6-8 hours after their last meal.  I'm guessing they would have been looking for rock samples during daylight, which doesn't appear to fit in with the timeframe, or does it? 

[tenne]

I don't know if hypothermia would affect the timing of their last meal, one expert said it would according to this site but that was a lone voice as far as I can tell so far.

Cutting slits into the tent to see seems very extreme but nothing adds up so it could be

[ilahiyol]

I think the tent could have been pitched on the slope to give them the advantage of being able to see anyone coming.   People have speculated they used cuts in the tent to observe what was happening outside.  Not entirely sure, who they thought might be coming their way, but it is another option.  How easy would it be to find the tent on the slope in the dark?   The explosive idea makes a lot of sense, but as GlennM stated, why were they not wearing shoes and what happened to their clothes? What injuries would you expect from an explosion?  Would there be shrapnel type injuries, different fractures, missing body parts etc?   Also, they died approximately 6-8 hours after their last meal.  I'm guessing they would have been looking for rock samples during daylight, which doesn't appear to fit in with the timeframe, or does it?

After the group made the stock tent, they had their breakfast. It may be around 11:00-12:00. Then they must have made their way into the forest. But for some reason they must have headed back to the mountain. They should be pitching the tent and preparing for dinner before evening. But they were attacked before they could have dinner! And according to this calculation, between 11:00 and 18:00 in the evening makes 7 hours.

[Почемучка]

After the group made the stock tent, they had their breakfast. It may be around 11:00-12:00. Then they must have made their way into the forest. But for some reason they must have headed back to the mountain. They should be pitching the tent and preparing for dinner before evening. But they were attacked before they could have dinner! And according to this calculation, between 11:00 and 18:00 in the evening makes 7 hours.

Кто напал? Куда делись следы напавших? Зачем нападали эти Ваши гипотетические нападавшие?

Who attacked? Where did the traces of the attackers go? Why did these hypothetical attackers of yours attack?

[tenne]

I think the tent could have been pitched on the slope to give them the advantage of being able to see anyone coming.   People have speculated they used cuts in the tent to observe what was happening outside.  Not entirely sure, who they thought might be coming their way, but it is another option.  How easy would it be to find the tent on the slope in the dark?   The explosive idea makes a lot of sense, but as GlennM stated, why were they not wearing shoes and what happened to their clothes? What injuries would you expect from an explosion?  Would there be shrapnel type injuries, different fractures, missing body parts etc?   Also, they died approximately 6-8 hours after their last meal.  I'm guessing they would have been looking for rock samples during daylight, which doesn't appear to fit in with the timeframe, or does it?

After the group made the stock tent, they had their breakfast. It may be around 11:00-12:00. Then they must have made their way into the forest. But for some reason they must have headed back to the mountain. They should be pitching the tent and preparing for dinner before evening. But they were attacked before they could have dinner! And according to this calculation, between 11:00 and 18:00 in the evening makes 7 hours.

That could be, the investigation was incredibly botched, whether by design or incompetence we will never know.  Had it been done properly, I doubt any of these questions would still need to be answered but all we can do is speculate and try to match the theory to the evidence but I do not know if we can trust the evidence

[Почемучка]

That could be, the investigation was incredibly botched, whether by design or incompetence we will never know.  Had it been done properly, I doubt any of these questions would still need to be answered but all we can do is speculate and try to match the theory to the evidence but I do not know if we can trust the evidence

А на чем тогда Вы будете строить свои убеждения, если доказательства сложите в мусор? Складывать надо все доказательства. Выборочно - это сразу тема ангажированности.
Если Вы не изобретатель машины времени - у Вас нет альтернативы. Доказательства надо принимать. Потому что они делались именно тогда по горячим следам.
And then on what will you build your beliefs if you put the evidence in the trash? All evidence must be added. Selectively - this is immediately the theme of engagement.
If you are not the inventor of the time machine, you have no alternative. Evidence must be accepted. Because they were made then in hot pursuit.

[RMK]

I agree with Почемучка.  If we just discard the available evidence, we'll never get anywhere, because we'll have no "ground truth" to begin with.

Я согласен с Почемучка.  Если мы просто отбросим имеющиеся доказательства, мы никогда ничего не добьемся, потому что у нас не будет "основной истины" с самого начала.

[tenne]

I am not saying disregard the evidence, it is all we have, I am just saying that it is incomplete with things being stated that aren't stated again i.e. the knife was found or the holder for the knife was found at the den? which one?

the samples that could prove (more or less sometimes) hypothermia were taken and then vanished along with the report or did they?



So to say it didn't happen because it wasn't mentioned is not, in my opinion a fair thing, because things were not done as well as they could have been that would leave a proper evidence trail

[ilahiyol]

I think the tent could have been pitched on the slope to give them the advantage of being able to see anyone coming.   People have speculated they used cuts in the tent to observe what was happening outside.  Not entirely sure, who they thought might be coming their way, but it is another option.  How easy would it be to find the tent on the slope in the dark?   The explosive idea makes a lot of sense, but as GlennM stated, why were they not wearing shoes and what happened to their clothes? What injuries would you expect from an explosion?  Would there be shrapnel type injuries, different fractures, missing body parts etc?   Also, they died approximately 6-8 hours after their last meal.  I'm guessing they would have been looking for rock samples during daylight, which doesn't appear to fit in with the timeframe, or does it?

After the group made the stock tent, they had their breakfast. It may be around 11:00-12:00. Then they must have made their way into the forest. But for some reason they must have headed back to the mountain. They should be pitching the tent and preparing for dinner before evening. But they were attacked before they could have dinner! And according to this calculation, between 11:00 and 18:00 in the evening makes 7 hours.

That could be, the investigation was incredibly botched, whether by design or incompetence we will never know.  Had it been done properly, I doubt any of these questions would still need to be answered but all we can do is speculate and try to match the theory to the evidence but I do not know if we can trust the evidence

It was seen as a simple disappearance into the tragic event of the century. And for this reason, due care and diligence was avoided. It was amateurish. When the first 5 bodies were found, the seriousness and importance of the incident was understood. But it was still seen as a simple freezing event. Then, when the last 4 bodies were found, it was understood that the incident was not an ordinary event. But the political conditions and atmosphere at that time resulted in the closure of the event. If the tragic event of the century had been approached professionally from the very beginning, we could have obtained much different evidence and conclusions. And yet it is clear that many diaries and cameras were hidden in the investigation. A puzzle why they were kept hidden and not made public(?) What was written in these diaries??? And what photos were on the other cameras??? Why are they hidden??? Have these materials been destroyed or are they still hiding somewhere??? These must be found. Otherwise, we argue here hypothetically without reaching a conclusion.

[Manti]

Why was the tent on the slope?

Sadly, I think it might be because they got slightly disoriented, due to whiteout conditions (blizzard), missed the valley with the cedar where their planned route would have led them, and decided that it's not safe to continue in low visibility because there might be cliffs or unstable snow. So their only option was to pitch the tent there, and try to wait out the storm.

[ilahiyol]

Why was the tent on the slope?

Sadly, I think it might be because they got slightly disoriented, due to whiteout conditions (blizzard), missed the valley with the cedar where their planned route would have led them, and decided that it's not safe to continue in low visibility because there might be cliffs or unstable snow. So their only option was to pitch the tent there, and try to wait out the storm.

You are thinking wrong. The forest border was very close. Even if there was a storm, the forest could be reached in half an hour. It takes 1-2 hours to set up a tent in a storm. The forest was very close and below. So it is impossible for them not to find the forest. Even the most ignorant amateur would walk into the forest instead of pitching a tent there. It is not possible for a 9 professional and sane group to set up a tent there. Unknown coercive force must have forced them to pitch a tent there.

[Manti]

So you think the coercive force "arrived" before they set up the tent, not while they were in it? Hmm... maybe. But what kind of force can make you set up a tent in an unfavourable place if not a storm?

[tenne]

So you think the coercive force "arrived" before they set up the tent, not while they were in it? Hmm... maybe. But what kind of force can make you set up a tent in an unfavourable place if not a storm?

No, I think the tent was set up there by someone but not the group. I believe they were already dead and the tent was put there as a good way to signal the helicopter where to bring? drop? the bodies?

I think they were accidently killed somehow, they were found and the disaster was covered up by moving the tent there and putting the bodies there. I do not believe that they skied there and they built the Labaz because I can't imagine anyone putting their valuable musical instrument in a 'poorly constructed' Labaz