Clothing puzzle

[GKM]

I know the issue of clothing has been addressed on this forum but not for a long time. It appears that very few are willing to address the fact that Tibo was wearing Lyuda coat and hat. Why? Let's look closer at this. Was Luda forced to give up her coat? Overpowered by brut strength? Did she give it up willingly? Was the coat removed from a dying or dead Luda and put on an injured Tibo? Surely everyone realizes how difficult it is to physically manipulate an adult who is unconscious. Very puzzling to me. Also Zina's pants being unbuttoned is worthy of deeper consideration. Why are her pants undone? But that doesn't raise the same alarm that Luda's coat does, at least not for me.

[eurocentric]

IMO the den, which had 4 seats, was probably intended as a triage built by Igor, Zina and Rustem, to house the others while they returned to the tent. The 4 weren't capable of helping/were injured, and would die if left out in the open for the hours they'd be gone.

Then things went from bad to worse very quickly, resus failed to revive Lyuda and Semyon, who had collapsed from heart failure due to the cold, and if Tibo had a bad head injury he may still have shown a pulse so possibly they dressed him in other clothing to keep him warm.

When it became apparent those 4 had all died they probably rolled the bodies into the ravine nearby, and left the den vacant for their own return.

I'm not sure what explanation to offer for Zina's pants, perhaps, given how the final 3 would spend their last moments crawling up the pass, they came undone through dragging herself across the snow, or she was showing symptoms of paradoxical undressing (which may also explain Igor not obtaining a hat, gloves, shoes or coat from the ravine 4, even though he had earlier taken a shirt from Yuri D's body).

[mk]

I know the issue of clothing has been addressed on this forum but not for a long time. It appears that very few are willing to address the fact that Tibo was wearing Lyuda coat and hat. Why? Let's look closer at this. Was Luda forced to give up her coat? Overpowered by brut strength? Did she give it up willingly? Was the coat removed from a dying or dead Luda and put on an injured Tibo? Surely everyone realizes how difficult it is to physically manipulate an adult who is unconscious. Very puzzling to me.

I wasn't aware that anyone had been unwilling to address questions about clothing.  I think most people have decided that, as the hikers died, their clothing was appropriated by those who were still alive.  Of course, it may be that there was a mad scramble for clothing in the tent and people put on random things that didn't belong to them.  But that wouldn't account for all of the of the pieces entirely.

Yes, I think most of us know how difficult it is to dress or undress an inert adult.  OTOH, these hikers aren't really the sort to give up because a task is difficult or troublesome. I guess you've lost me at the significance of Tibo wearing Lyuda's jacket.  What significance do you give it?

Also Zina's pants being unbuttoned is worthy of deeper consideration. Why are her pants undone? But that doesn't raise the same alarm that Luda's coat does, at least not for me.

This is the description from the autopsy in the case files:

"On the examination table is a body of a woman: both of the upper limbs are bent at the elbows. The left lower limb is more straightened at the knee and hip. Both limbs are joined together and intersect one another in the area of the lower third of the right leg and the inside of the left knee. The toes are stretched and lowered downwards.

"The body is dressed as follows: on the head is a red wool hat tied at the chin with a bow. Under the hat is a blue knitted hat attached to the hair with a clip. A blue wool sweater worn on the left with the left cuff torn. Under this is a cotton checkered shirt with long sleeves and one closed left pocket; the left sleeve is closed at the cuff. The color of the checkered shirt is black, green with red squares. Under the checkered shirt on the left side of the chest is a military style defensive mask. Under the checkered shirt is a light red woolen sweater worn on the left side with a light red to blue transverse stripe. On the left and right sleeves are two patches, one made from a brown sock and the other from blue cotton fabric. A knitted shirt with long blue arms. A black satin brassiere fastened with two buttons. Baize ski sport pants with a buckle on the hip and closed buttons. At the bottom, the cuffs of the pants are not buttoned; there are three tears on the right pant leg with a depth of 0.5 cm, 1.2 cm, and 0.3 cm. Blue cotton sports pants with two internal pockets, the buckles on the hips are unbuttoned. In the right pocket is a brown comb
with two broken teeth. In the left pocket there is a black shoestring; elastic pants underneath; knitted women’s fleece leggings of an indeterminable color; black elastic ladies cotton tights; swimming trunks with a four-button closure; woolen brown socks with fur insoles on her feet; under them are blue and brown woolen socks."

What do you mean by the pants buttons being undone? She is reportedly wearing two pairs of pants & "elastic pants", in addition to leggings, underwear, and swim trunks.  It says the cuffs of the pants are not buttoned, and it says the buckles at the hips are "unbuttoned" (a little confusing about buttoning buckles--does that mean you buckle buttons?  I'm guessing it's a translation error?).

I imagine that she got done with her hike and loosened her pants a bit for comfort in the tent as she got ready for the evening.  That's what I would do, especially if I were wearing more than one pair and trying to move around in a confined space like a tent. If there's a deeper significance, you're going to have to help me out on this one, too. :-)

Myself, I'm burning with curiosity about the "military style defensive mask" that seems to be lurking under her shirt on the left side.  What on earth does that mean?

[sarapuk]

I know the issue of clothing has been addressed on this forum but not for a long time. It appears that very few are willing to address the fact that Tibo was wearing Lyuda coat and hat. Why? Let's look closer at this. Was Luda forced to give up her coat? Overpowered by brut strength? Did she give it up willingly? Was the coat removed from a dying or dead Luda and put on an injured Tibo? Surely everyone realizes how difficult it is to physically manipulate an adult who is unconscious. Very puzzling to me. Also Zina's pants being unbuttoned is worthy of deeper consideration. Why are her pants undone? But that doesn't raise the same alarm that Luda's coat does, at least not for me.

The clothing issue has been looked at in some detail in parts of this Forum. But its always worth looking at again if anything new can be added.

[DAXXY]

I think the pathologist did the top first working from head down and outer layers in towards the body but emptying pockets as he went. so head..top half..lower half..feet..

Baize ski sport pants with a buckle on the hip and closed buttons. At the bottom, the cuffs of the pants are not buttoned; there are three tears on the right pant leg with a depth of 0.5 cm, 1.2 cm, and 0.3 cm.
Blue cotton sports pants with two internal pockets, the buckles on the hips are unbuttoned. In the right pocket is a brown comb with two broken teeth.

I read that as ski trousers with buttons on the bottom cuffs ..The ankle.  On the hip are tensioning buckles to tighten or loosen the waist fit,  Some women's trousers do up at the side so the buttons were all done up and there were some tears from brushing past undergrowth while skiing.   Under these were a blue type of leggings with pockets inside the waist band.  These inner leggings have the tensioning buckles undone for comfort. She could have cut the inner leggings tensioner buckles off but then if she used the leggings normally (not as under trousers) they would be too loose at the waist.

[DAXXY]

This could be the under leggings showing the inner pocket pulled out with the comb and some sort of buckle on the left.

[Nigel Evans]

It's best to correlate the autopsy with the photos of the bodies as discovered. I.e neither Semyon or Nicolai are wearing hats "on location".


As to his jacket could someone remind of were it is stated it was Lyudmila's?

[DAXXY]

Working from inner layers to outer layer there is some sense to how Yuri Doroshenko was dressed. But translation does make it confusing.
'Underpants' could be understood to be a type of brief, but here it's referring to 'Pants' in the american sense..as trousers..whether they are leggings or outer wear, they are 'pants' of some sort. 

On his lower half he was wearing ...

Long blue cotton underpants (leggings) fastened with two buttons - badly ripped on the front of the right side with one large hole 23 cm in length and inside the thigh of the left side 13 cm in length. These must be the torn leggings.

swimming trunks. Probably with a tie cord at the waist. These would tighten the waist area of the cotton leggings and stop the leggings slipping down or sagging in the crotch and causing friction while skiing. He may have made the tears himself to reduce friction. They are cotton and if he built up sweat, friction would be an issue.

Shorts  To create another air space layer

Outer 'pants' on top. But these were not found on him.

There are classic signs of late stage hypothermia affecting the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree.  One is the cutting off and discarding of their own clothing (Paradoxical Undressing) Another is the evidence of Pulmonary Edema (Grey Foam) on the face and mouth of Yuri Doroshenko, another sign is the burns and the bitten right hand on Yuri Krivonischenko's body due to him experiencing greatly reduced sensation.