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41

General Discussion / Re: The Last Leg

« Last post by GlennM on April 12, 2024, 06:45:53 AM »

 Arjan, you bring up a valid point. Perhaps this is why late starts were noted in a diary. They were Slow to rise and slow to get going. Does it give us a clue? For me, barring physical problems, a slow pace suggests casual confidence, attutude, or hubris, depending on one's point of view.  If it was indeed a physical problem, that points to weather. Again, there is language in a diary about that.

If one believes as I do that the final camp was on 1079, we could make the case that the hikers were forced off the slope for better shelter or to save one of their own. Too,since weather is at issue, once they got to the area of the cedar, we need no tent to have Teddy's tree come down. It was allegedly very windy.

The overall impression I get is that the hikers were striking a balance between physical exertion and mental relaxation before returning to the daily grind back home. It was just more predictable at home.

42

Expeditions to the Dyatlov Pass / Re: Ski Expedition "The Dyatlov Group Trail -2024" | January 27 – February 7

« Last post by Олег Таймень on April 12, 2024, 05:07:27 AM »

43

General Discussion / Re: The Last Leg

« Last post by Arjan on April 12, 2024, 04:04:33 AM »

This kind of winterhikes pose a general challenge: lack of daylight.

Sunrise had been at that day/place: 8:30 am
Sunset on a flat area at that day/place: 17:00 pm
This leaves 9 hours for activities during 'daylight'.

On a normal hiking day, this group had used around 1.5 hour the break up and around 1.5 hour to arrange a camping site for the night. 
This leaves 6 hours for tracking.

The campsite east of Kholat Syakhl had posed a very specific challenge.
The journalist collective Aleksej Rakitin has shown on page 110 of the German edition 'Die Toten vom Djatlow-Pass':
- on that day/place the sun had disappeared at the camp site around 14:30 pm behind Kholat Syakl.

Everyone who has been in the mountains knows that it will cool quickly in case the sun sets behind the mountains.

This fact may be an additional reason for the short last leg.

44

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by GlennM on April 11, 2024, 07:04:58 PM »

Closer to water than I thought.

45

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by Axelrod on April 11, 2024, 12:17:02 PM »

Place (in summer) where Rustem Slobodin was found

46

Expeditions to the Dyatlov Pass / Re: Ski Expedition "The Dyatlov Group Trail -2024" | January 27 – February 7

« Last post by Олег Таймень on April 11, 2024, 10:03:07 AM »

47

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by gunmat on April 11, 2024, 09:41:53 AM »

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48

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by Ziljoe on April 11, 2024, 09:34:46 AM »

I would add a few observations gunmat.

The autopsy is only as good as the individuals and knowledge at the time. They speculate about what may have caused the fracture, in the absence of any weapon or penetration, all they can suggest is a rock.

Having done a bit of research, it would seem hemorrhages  happen at areas with synovial membrane during hypothermia and / or freezing. There is synovial membrane where the jaw connects to the temporal skull . Swelling is known to happen with the knees due to some process .

"The findings of synovial membrane hemorrhages and bloody discoloration of synovial fluid of the knee joints are another vital sign of hypothermia."

The autopsy conclusion says;

I believe that SLOBODINA’s death was caused by low temperature /freezing/ as evidenced by: swelling of the meninges, congestion of the internal organs, Vishnevsky spots on the gastric mucosa, frostbite fingers of the upper extremities of the third, fourth degree.

It goes on to say.

The indicated closed skull injury was caused by a blunt instrument. At the moment of its occurrence, it undoubtedly caused a state of short-term stunning for SLOBODINA and contributed to the rapid freezing of SLOBODINA. The absence of obvious hemorrhage under the meninges gives reason to believe that SLOBODINA's death occurred precisely as a result of his freezing.

From what I understand, the autopsy says Slobodina died from freezing and not what caused the crack. There is no hemorrhage under the meninges, what I think is being said is that freezing was already taking place , it was not the blow to the head by another person (  if there was one?) , It is most likely he fell in a poor exhausted state several times  to where he eventually collapsed. At least ,this is what I think they are concluding.

Moving forward a few decades, we have more  data regarding hypothermia. We know more than people back in 1959, we do know that on occasion, people have been found with a fracture in their skull or various changes in the neck depending on variables of clothing etc. There is no obvious evidence of outsiders yet , to say it was a blow to the head by outsiders or someone else is equally speculative .

Here's a link that might be of interest. It has some data on hypothermia and various findings.

https://serval.unil.ch/resource/serval:BIB_B1EBC2CBE49E.P001/REF.pdf

49

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by gunmat on April 11, 2024, 06:41:54 AM »

The autopsy reports are one of the most important documents in this case, because they describe what is actually observed, and are not altered by memory. On March 8, 1959, the autopsy was conducted by Dr. B.A. VOZROZHDENNIY. After reading the report in my own native language, the brutality becomes closer and some details become clearer.
--
The frontal bone is cracked on the left side, and there were bleedings in both the right and left temporal muscles. The crack starts at the injured left temporal muscle and extends 6 centimeters diagonally upward and forward. It is consistent with the head having been positioned with the right side against a stable solid surface, and receiving a strong impact from a blunt object on the left side, partially over the temporal bone and partially over the frontal bone. The force has caused the frontal bone to crack.
--
The report appears very thorough, but in the conclusion, it devolves into speculation. This is a strange dissonance in such a thorough report : “The fracture of the left frontal lobe bone could have occurred during a fall by Slobodin or the impact of the head on a hard object such as rocks, ice, etc. A blunt object caused the above-mentioned trauma.”
--
If we assume the official story, Kolmogorova, Slobodin, and Dyatlov leave from the cedar tree and head towards the tent where they freeze to death. This route does not pass through a scree with running water, which could create ice blocks in the snow. There is only loose snow on the ground along the route they may have taken. However, Teddy and others can, of course, document this with pictures. The idea that Slobodin would fall and hit one side of his head against a stone or ice, and then fall to the other side and experience the same, seems highly speculative. Especially since the external head injuries are found in exactly the same place on the opposite side. The head rested against something solid while being struck on the other side by a blunt object.

50

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by Partorg on April 10, 2024, 09:40:20 PM »

Won’t even risk challenging this statement. ))
Although in principle  to argue is possible and in a constructive way.