Theories Discussion > The stove
Carbon monoxide posoning
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Nezza on September 26, 2019, 10:47:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: Star man on September 26, 2019, 08:47:50 AM ---The point I was trying to make but badly is: why would there be so much secrecy over an accident involving a stove? Also why introduce a 3 year ban on travel to the area?
Regards
Star man
--- End quote ---
The soviet union would apply secrecy to any situation that might make them look incompetent. Since they couldn't fully discover what the deciding factor in the incident was,i would be unthinkable for them to allow a group out a few weeks later and possibly have the same thing happen again.So they basically swept it under the rug and took steps to see that it doesn't happen again.
--- End quote ---
I think you are being to harsh on the USSR. Why would that particular State be any different to any other ! ? And also a faulty stove is hardly likely to drive all those young people out to their certain deaths. They would have made an attempt to get back into the tent rather than walk a mile in extreme weather conditions.
Monika:
--- Quote from: Nezza on September 25, 2019, 10:34:58 PM ---In the satirical leaflet found in the tent called 'Evening Otorten',the stove is twice mention. Once asking comically whether 9 people can get by on one stove and a blanket.The other statement is of kolmogorova and doroshenko 'setting a world record' on stove assembly. Its suggested that this document was created on the fateful night of Febuary 1st.
I think that the stove was assembled that night,it was used, and was the reason why the dyatlov group members left the tent in such a weird state of CONFUSION.Think about out it. If the group seriously had no intentions of using the stove,then why would they take it with them on their more tiring final days of the treck,why not leave it in the cache with the other supplies?
Even the packed up disassembled stove could be culprit to smouldering wood embers that can release the odourless,colourless and tasteless gas of carbon monoxide into the tent as they all sleep? Awaking in the night in total darkness with a pounding headache and extremely confused. Its only once they have trekked into oblivion without proper clothing or protection,that that effects from the poisoning begin to subside and their logical actions and desire to survive now kicks in. Although they are now a mile from their tent in near darkness and feeling the full effects from the brutal elements.....
--- End quote ---
Hello
If carbon dioxide escapes, there is a simple solution: come out of the tent and flip it over. Then the CO2 is dispersed and they can take their belongings.
They were certainly not disoriented; after escaping from the tent, they went in coordinated way down the slope to the forest.
brad112:
--- Quote from: Nezza on September 25, 2019, 10:34:58 PM ---In the satirical leaflet found in the tent called 'Evening Otorten',the stove is twice mention. Once asking comically whether 9 people can get by on one stove and a blanket.The other statement is of kolmogorova and doroshenko 'setting a world record' on stove assembly. Its suggested that this document was created on the fateful night of Febuary 1st.
I think that the stove was assembled that night,it was used, and was the reason why the dyatlov group members left the tent in such a weird state of CONFUSION.Think about out it. If the group seriously had no intentions of using the stove,then why would they take it with them on their more tiring final days of the treck,why not leave it in the cache with the other supplies?
Even the packed up disassembled stove could be culprit to smouldering wood embers that can release the odourless,colourless and tasteless gas of carbon monoxide into the tent as they all sleep? Awaking in the night in total darkness with a pounding headache and extremely confused. Its only once they have trekked into oblivion without proper clothing or protection,that that effects from the poisoning begin to subside and their logical actions and desire to survive now kicks in. Although they are now a mile from their tent in near darkness and feeling the full effects from the brutal elements.....
--- End quote ---
This is the only theory that explains all the elements of the evidence. You can easily find evidence of carbon monoxide poisoning due to wood burning stoves on the internet. The Mayo Clinic lists the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning as follows: Dull headache, Weakness, Dizziness, Nausea or vomiting, Shortness of breath, Confusion, Blurred vision, Loss of consciousness.
A state of confusion, dizziness, blurred vision etc could explain why the tent was cut from the inside in a confused attempt to exit. This also could explain the slow or non-panic walking down the hill. There would be no reason to run and some may have been near unconscious so moving very slowly.
So is there evidence they used the stove? From my understanding weather and temperature conditions were extreme on the night of February 1,2. They set-up their tent in the open, no trees or shelter from the wind. I believe it's possible that the wind became too violent for the exhaust pipe of the stove, so they decided to bring in the exhaust pipe and essentially partially pack the stove together leaving hot embers in the stove to continue to help heat the inside of the tent which in turn caused the concentration of carbon monoxide in the tent.
I know some testimony says the stove was in its case and not being used, but is it possible they only assumed that because it had been disassembled? Testimony from V. L. Lebedev states the following:
"There were many items in the tent. Near the entrance of the tent, which seems to have been opened, lay the stove inside its case. The pipes of the latter were inside the stove, which indicates that the stove was not attempted to be taken out , lit although outside the tent on the rear end end in the snow I found a log, undoubtedly intended for the stove."
I speculate how complete the stove was put away and if there may have been ashes inside. One thing we can all agree on is that the testimonies from the various searchers have many inconsistencies and can not be totally relied upon for accuracy, especially when it comes to the stove being used. I can easily see one assuming they didn't use the stove because the exhaust pipes were stacked next to the stove.
The group members with the most severe injuries (mostly broken ribs and fractured skull) can be explained by them falling through a layer of icy snow that had covered part of the ravine, falling to the bottom of the ravine which could have been very hard, even with rocks as it was later found out to be a water flow area for melting snow. I think it's likely two of them fell together one body landed on the other exacerbating the injuries and Dubinina may have fallen on the rock where her body was found with many broken ribs. They believe she died very quickly after those injuries . Lastly, I think the radiation on the 3 pieces of clothing can be adequately explained by the work environments of the 2 group members who owned the clothing.
Brad
Edit added 6/10/20:
After additional reading especially through the notebooks in the case files and interviews with the first searchers to find the tent, I'm more convinced (but not completely) that the group likely did not use the stove before the event that led them outside. Thus, I have become more interested in hurricane or katabatic winds or essentially high winds as an explanation. The initial searchers leaned toward this explanation noting hurricane as the likely explanation in their notes. The wind blew the bodies down the hill and a few of them were attempting to return to the tent in a straight line to the tent. They noted that their only problem with this theory was why didn't the wind take at least some of their belongings from inside the tent down the hill with them. I might add also, why didn't such a powerful wind break or dislodge any of the ski poles that were stuck around the tent. I will head to the katabatic wind section for more discussion.
hoosiergose:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 30, 2019, 10:48:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nezza on September 26, 2019, 10:47:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: Star man on September 26, 2019, 08:47:50 AM ---The point I was trying to make but badly is: why would there be so much secrecy over an accident involving a stove? Also why introduce a 3 year ban on travel to the area?
Regards
Star man
--- End quote ---
The soviet union would apply secrecy to any situation that might make them look incompetent. Since they couldn't fully discover what the deciding factor in the incident was,i would be unthinkable for them to allow a group out a few weeks later and possibly have the same thing happen again.So they basically swept it under the rug and took steps to see that it doesn't happen again.
--- End quote ---
I think you are being to harsh on the USSR. Why would that particular State be any different to any other ! ? And also a faulty stove is hardly likely to drive all those young people out to their certain deaths. They would have made an attempt to get back into the tent rather than walk a mile in extreme weather conditions.
--- End quote ---
@ Sarapuk - again you have shown your lack of knowledge & understanding- Carbon Monoxide poisoning causes severe to profound confusion, not to mention a number of other very debilitating medical issues.
Google it and see for yourself - your phenomenal level of incompetence precedes you Sir
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: hoosiergose on July 05, 2020, 01:10:59 AM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 30, 2019, 10:48:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nezza on September 26, 2019, 10:47:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: Star man on September 26, 2019, 08:47:50 AM ---The point I was trying to make but badly is: why would there be so much secrecy over an accident involving a stove? Also why introduce a 3 year ban on travel to the area?
Regards
Star man
--- End quote ---
The soviet union would apply secrecy to any situation that might make them look incompetent. Since they couldn't fully discover what the deciding factor in the incident was,i would be unthinkable for them to allow a group out a few weeks later and possibly have the same thing happen again.So they basically swept it under the rug and took steps to see that it doesn't happen again.
--- End quote ---
I think you are being to harsh on the USSR. Why would that particular State be any different to any other ! ? And also a faulty stove is hardly likely to drive all those young people out to their certain deaths. They would have made an attempt to get back into the tent rather than walk a mile in extreme weather conditions.
--- End quote ---
@ Sarapuk - again you have shown your lack of knowledge & understanding- Carbon Monoxide poisoning causes severe to profound confusion, not to mention a number of other very debilitating medical issues.
Google it and see for yourself - your phenomenal level of incompetence precedes you Sir
--- End quote ---
Well I dont resort to insulting other Members on this Forum. People who resort to such measures have usually lost the argument anyway. So if you want to make comments, keep the insulting bits out of it. If Carbon Monoxide Poisoning was the cause of the Dyatlov Group abandoning their Tent in the way that they did, it must have been one hell of a dosage. And why no signs in the bodies in the Autopsies ! ?
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