July 20, 2024, 10:03:42 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Murder Indead  (Read 136642 times)

0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

February 13, 2022, 02:18:35 PM
Reply #150
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Loose Cannon, I still have doubts it was cut from the inside at all. I saw a demonstration once about the difference in cuts from a sharp object when cutting through canvas from both inside and out. There wasn't an obvious difference in places. Also, where were these knives they cut the tent with? It was clearly more than 1 that shredded the thing as it did, so where are they? The knives found in the tent were still in their cases and not found near the opening of the tent at all. Its a mystery.

I also have doubts about the tent being cut from the inside.
DB
 

February 15, 2022, 05:34:51 AM
Reply #151

Charles

Guest
nothing here
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:51:54 PM by Charles »
 

June 21, 2022, 01:47:20 PM
Reply #152
Offline

Per Inge Oestmoen



Per Inge Oestmoen
Quote
no bullet wounds or knife cuts
To be honest, we have some evidence of knife cuts.
Autopsy report of Igor Dyatlov:
 In the area of the palm surface of the second and fifth fingers there is a skin wound of irregular linear shape with regular edges located transverse to the length of the fingers; the surface wounds are up to 0.1 (or 0.2 – note) cm deep.


Quote
But the main question of why the victims were not simply shot
the victims were  injured with one blow. Simply  and effectively.
Quote
But the main question of why the victims were not simply shot
the simplest answer is  - attacers didnt have weapons.
 Weapons were strictly prohibited in USSR except for hunting weapons. If it is correct assumption,  we can exclude some categories of people attacker did not belong
1) sololders (army, KGB)
2) hunters
3) organized criminal groups
 But the blows were very effective. This tells us that attackers were  very well trained to kill. Special Forces? Without weapons?  nea1
What about the people who had have this training and took part in еspecial forces operations  during the WWII? They were 30+ in 1959.
 

If the victims had been shot, it would be impossible to make the murder look like an accident. It was very important to communicate to the public that this tragedy was an accident. The staunch insisting that an avalanche was responsible is testimony to the Soviet and later Russian governments' desire to conceal the truth. Now it has been scientifically and conclusively proven that there was no avalanche. Moreover, the injuries found on the bodies are inconsistent with what we observe after avalanches. Still, the authorities maintain that the tragedy was a natural accident.

The wound in the hand of Dyatlov is very likely from a bayonet. Dyatlov tried to fight, and tried to get hold on a rifle - and he was cut as the attacker probably withdrew the rifle in order to control Dyatlov in close combat.

Special forces - and the KGB were extremely well trained in close combat - know how to kill without firearms, and the orchestration and execution of "accidents," "natural deaths" and "suicides" is typical of killing by special forces, unless they want the public to know what happened.

To kill the nine students, who were loyal Soviet citizens and belonging to the privileged, with firearms would create protest and possibly political unrest. That would be a most irrational thing to do. The intelligent thing to do was what was done: To kill in such a was as to make it look like an accident. There was a sudden rise in temperature during the night between February 1 and February 2. That rise in temperature foiled the plot: The students did not freeze to death soon. Therefore, they had to be hunted down and dispatched. If there had been no rise in temperature, the nine would have died from freezing as intended - and very few would have understood that they had been murdered in cold blood.
 

June 21, 2022, 04:25:00 PM
Reply #153
Offline

Ziljoe


Who's thumb is that!?

All the deaths are consistent with exposure and hypothermia. The avalanche theory varies from snow slide to slip of a small amount of snow. Not some tidal wave of endless amount of snow.

I interpret it to being the reason of leaving the tent. All injuries occurred after the exit of the tent, whether that be physical attack, environment , Wolverine . I struggle to get my head round the logistics of murder of 9 people. There's easier ways to do it. Plus , I've said before and I'll say it again. An organised/ planned murder would not leave any film from cameras behind. If one is trained in killing and on a mission , you take away all potential from being found.

If it was murder it's not premeditated in my opinion. It's sloppy.
 

September 11, 2023, 01:00:55 PM
Reply #154
Offline

Per Inge Oestmoen



All the deaths are consistent with exposure and hypothermia. The avalanche theory varies from snow slide to slip of a small amount of snow. Not some tidal wave of endless amount of snow.

I interpret it to being the reason of leaving the tent. All injuries occurred after the exit of the tent, whether that be physical attack, environment , Wolverine . I struggle to get my head round the logistics of murder of 9 people. There's easier ways to do it. Plus , I've said before and I'll say it again. An organised/ planned murder would not leave any film from cameras behind. If one is trained in killing and on a mission, you take away all potential from being found.

If it was murder it's not premeditated in my opinion. It's sloppy.


The many injuries cannot be explained by accidents, and since there were injuries that were either directly lethal or lethal in combination with exposure it is fully conceivable that the killers orchestrated their cruel mission precisely in such a way as to make it look like an accident.

There are clearly easier ways to kill nine people, but there is hardly any more intelligent method than to do it in such a way as was in all probability done: Chase the victims out from their tent and let the cold do the job. Had the temperature been a little lower, it would have been a perfect mission. Since the victims did not die as fast as planned, the killing squad had to expedite the outcome. Hence the injuries.

There was no sign of an avalanche in the area, and the injuries are of course not consistent with such a natural phenomenon.
 

September 11, 2023, 07:17:33 PM
Reply #155
Offline

Ziljoe



All the deaths are consistent with exposure and hypothermia. The avalanche theory varies from snow slide to slip of a small amount of snow. Not some tidal wave of endless amount of snow.

I interpret it to being the reason of leaving the tent. All injuries occurred after the exit of the tent, whether that be physical attack, environment , Wolverine . I struggle to get my head round the logistics of murder of 9 people. There's easier ways to do it. Plus , I've said before and I'll say it again. An organised/ planned murder would not leave any film from cameras behind. If one is trained in killing and on a mission, you take away all potential from being found.

If it was murder it's not premeditated in my opinion. It's sloppy.


The many injuries cannot be explained by accidents, and since there were injuries that were either directly lethal or lethal in combination with exposure it is fully conceivable that the killers orchestrated their cruel mission precisely in such a way as to make it look like an accident.

There are clearly easier ways to kill nine people, but there is hardly any more intelligent method than to do it in such a way as was in all probability done: Chase the victims out from their tent and let the cold do the job. Had the temperature been a little lower, it would have been a perfect mission. Since the victims did not die as fast as planned, the killing squad had to expedite the outcome. Hence the injuries.

There was no sign of an avalanche in the area, and the injuries are of course not consistent with such a natural phenomenon.

I don't entirely disagree, but I think we have to look at all possibilities. It's three weeks before they found the tent, I think there may be some argument that there was a small localised snow slip / slide that may have given the impression to the dp9 that worse was to come. Enough for them to leave perhaps?

 If the last photos of them digging the trench for pitching the tent is accurate, then the spoil of the snow that they dug out, which would be roughly 2m x  5 m is not existant in the search photos. Maybe the wind errouded this pile of snow?. There would be no sign of an avalanche as we think it to be in our heads.

I agree about the fact there's easier ways to kill , if it was planned that is, but I think it would have been cold enough for them to die as they did without additional equipment.

The main injuries sustained are a possibility from the cold and a collapse of a snow cave/ bank/ weight of snow on the ravine 4.

I maybe thinking wrong , but we have 4 bodies under 3-4 meters of snow , these bodies are at ground level so the 3-4 meters of snow got on top of them some how.

We have the two Yuri's by the ceder and fire, they have burns and there are burnt clothing reported.

I don't know how to argue the point and I'll repeat, I don't rule out outsiders , I would rather rule out natural possibilities, then consider outsiders. As you suggest, it's an odd way to kill people.
 

October 08, 2023, 12:30:50 PM
Reply #156
Offline

Per Inge Oestmoen


I don't know how to argue the point and I'll repeat, I don't rule out outsiders , I would rather rule out natural possibilities, then consider outsiders. As you suggest, it's an odd way to kill people.


What I clearly stated, is that to let the cold to the grisly job is a very intelligent way of killing people: To make it look like an accident in the cold. Almost any other way of killing them would have been too obviously a murder. This method would have been a complete success, if the temperature had been low enough to kill the nine without further intervention. To chase the victims out of their tent and into the cold - what method of killing can be more cruelly intelligent, if the order from above was to make the deaths look like an accident?

Why would the investigators be instructed to close the investigation down prematurely with the conclusion that it was an accident, unless it was something entirely different?

The injuries tell their tale, and they can only be explained by lethal attack by other humans.
 

October 09, 2023, 06:02:38 PM
Reply #157
Offline

Ziljoe


I don't know how to argue the point and I'll repeat, I don't rule out outsiders , I would rather rule out natural possibilities, then consider outsiders. As you suggest, it's an odd way to kill people.


What I clearly stated, is that to let the cold to the grisly job is a very intelligent way of killing people: To make it look like an accident in the cold. Almost any other way of killing them would have been too obviously a murder. This method would have been a complete success, if the temperature had been low enough to kill the nine without further intervention. To chase the victims out of their tent and into the cold - what method of killing can be more cruelly intelligent, if the order from above was to make the deaths look like an accident?

Why would the investigators be instructed to close the investigation down prematurely with the conclusion that it was an accident, unless it was something entirely different?

The injuries tell their tale, and they can only be explained by lethal attack by other humans.

I don't entirely disagree , however, I need or want to challenge your thoughts.

Outsiders could have made the dp9 look like they were digging the trench for the tent as per the alleged last photo. The cold had already worked on several members of the group if we assume outsiders were trying to kill them in that way, that way being, death by hypothermia.

There is then no point in breaking skulls or breaking ribs? Just strangle them , there will be less evidence? Marks on the neck will not show when there is nothing but a skeleton, but broken ribs and skull fractures will?

The investigators closed it because they hadn't a clue? There were many tourist trips that ended with people losing their lives. An embarrassment all round perhaps?

The injuries say something happened for sure. We must be 100 % that those injuries ( broken ribs) could not happen in the environment. I will argue in the first hand that the ravine 4 were found under 3-4 meters of snow. I have to ask the question,, can we be certain that a mass of snow , falling on top of bodies cause these injuries. I do not have the resources to know for sure, but we have ather reports from around the world that show that broken bones from snow collapse, land slip are posable. That fact, in my opinion cannot be ignored. To me, it's the first angle we look at.

Others have put explanations forward. The potential of a tree causing the injuries for example.

If you wish to say there was a bunch of trained guys doing Kung Fu, without their pyjamas on but in heavy , 1950s clothing , I can't argue the fact.