May 17, 2022, 11:39:13 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Did they act rationally or irrationally, or did they have no choice?  (Read 1684 times)

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December 02, 2021, 12:37:24 PM
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MDGross


The answer depends on which scenario(s) you favor. And like so much in this maddening mystery, we most likely will never know for certain. But I believe it is a helpful way to organize the many theories.

• The hikers acted rationally to what they believed or perceived to be imminent, life threatening danger – slab avalanche, ball lightning, katabatic wind, and so on. They acted rationally when faced with immediate danger.

• The hikers were not able to think clearly and so acted irrationally – infrasound, toxic fumes, magic mushroom spores, poisonous bread, etc.

• The hikers were forced out of their tent by outsiders and so had no choice.

• Or they had no idea of what was to happen. In Igor's and Teddy's scenario, they had no clue that a tree would fall on them as they slept.
 

December 02, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
Reply #1
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Ziljoe


Good short list.  I will choose Igor b's wolverine theory . For me, its the most sensible and covers 95 % of all things. All I need to do is smell the the spray and then decide if I would dump everything.

The Wolverine theory has , for me at least, a number of examples of tying in various statements .

I don't think it was supernatural/paranormal. I don't think it was KGB or government , because we wouldn't have all the after photos in the search. People(locals)  were hired to look and search and take photos. If there was any real concern by the powers that be, noone would have been allowed to be in the area.

The two with the blunt force trauma ( broken ribs)  were under several feet of snow, the two with missing eyes and one with missing tounge were found in flowing water 3 months later , in the spring.

The two with burns were found next to a fire.

The three on the hill/ mountain side were found to have all the signs of dying from exposure to the cold.

There is more simplicity than mystery to it all.
 

December 03, 2021, 08:33:28 AM
Reply #2
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Игорь Б.


All I need to do is smell the spray
Очень жаль, что в Шотландии нет скунсов. Но можно купить эссенцию:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=skunk+essence
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 12:06:58 PM by Игорь Б. »
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

December 03, 2021, 01:24:41 PM
Reply #3
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Ziljoe


That sounds like a challenge Igor b.......
The orange and yellow colour are interesting . That fits along with some of the statements as you highlighted on the clothing and the searchers hands.
 

December 04, 2021, 07:20:30 AM
Reply #4
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MDGross


Yes, simple appeals to me. What could be simpler than a tree falling on the tent. But that's when the simplicity ends and the complexity begins. So many people involved in the staging of the tragedy. Even the logistics become confusing and complex.
The half-dozen articles I read about wolverines make me dubious of the wolverine scenario. The Anchorage Fish & Wildlife states: "Wolverines can kill livestock and other small animals, but to our knowledge, there has never been a documented case of an attack on a human by a wolverine." Every article only gives brief mention to a wolverine's scent glands. None of them states that scent is used as a defensive strategy, only in marking territory and attracting mates. Powerful front claws and huge canine teeth are all that a wolverine needs to attack prey.

What could have happened to the hikers that was a relatively simple event, yet so dangerous and unexpected that they fled into the freezing night without even wearing shoes???!!!

   
 

December 04, 2021, 08:12:52 AM
Reply #5
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Ziljoe


As I understand it to be and having read through Igor b's argument for a wolverine, all the injuries and statements come together in a logical sequence.

Igor b  references a number of incidents of wolverines spraying their glans for defence. Be it hunting dogs , bears or wolf attacks. Some of these examples are on u tube and some are statements with links. Igor b also puts forward strong arguments for all the injuries , marks and the body positions for all the group.

There are also examples of wolverines going into tents or where humans sleep and are looking for food or shelter.( One story is of a man being woken up by a wolverine licking his face in a tent) . I don't think an 'attack' by a wolverine is what is being put forward , just if the Wolverine followed the smell of food and slipped into the tent and got trapped with no immediate means to exit the tent. The Wolverines instinct to spray for defence is when it feels threatened and trapped, otherwise it would of just ran away.

I instantly dismissed the Wolverine theory as on the  face of it , it just seemed stupid, that is , until I read more about it.

I am still referencing  teddy's book although I struggle a bit with the staging and logistics but it has its strong points too....

It is an intriguing mystery for sure.

   
 

December 04, 2021, 04:22:10 PM
Reply #6
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Ziljoe


This clip doesn't directly link to the he dyatlov case. I post it out of general interest.

 

December 05, 2021, 12:58:45 PM
Reply #7
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Manti


In my opinion, even the decision to go ahead with the trip despite not having proper equipment (sleeping bags, mountaineering overalls that they had to return to the sports club) is not quite rational.  But they were seeking adventure.

And I always mention this, but turning back south from the pass to camp in the Auspiya valley the night before... this also doesn't look like a rational decision. But this cannot be explained by seeking adventure.


And then camping on the slope also seems irrational. If the conditions were truly bad, they could have returned back to the previous night's campsite. Of course here I'm assuming the scene wasn't staged.


Lately I have wondered  if the official explanation could indeed be true. Use of metal detectors and probes, from the beginning of the search, hints that even back then, avalanche was suspected. Injuries are consistent with avalanche (and hitting objects like rocks or trees at high speed while being carried by an avalanche). The fire by the cedar and the flooring built from spruce branches.. could be consistent with the survivors trying to warm themselves up. Thibo wearing two watches... that's an inconsistency, and also the fact that the avalanche must have caught them while they were already all outside the tent but without their coats.


So there is the next irrational action, being outside without coats. But perhaps they just quickly went outside to look at something and triggered an avalanche that carried some down to the ravine, and buried others in snow before that, and the two Yuris survived but were too weak to return to the tent>
 

December 05, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Reply #8
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Manti


Regarding the wolverine theory: I think it can explain the abandoning of the tent in a hurry. But the more I read about wolverines, the less likely it seems. They apparently mostly eat carrion, including  animals buried by avalanches that they can smell from far away and dig out from under metres of snow. And their jaws are strong enough to crush ice and bones.


The fact none of the Dyatlov members had bite marks, and also that the pieces of meat in the tent remained half eaten, means there was no hungry wolverine nearby.
 

December 05, 2021, 05:36:38 PM
Reply #9
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Игорь Б.


Типичные заблуждения о росомахе и её химическом оружии:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=91970
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

December 13, 2021, 07:05:13 PM
Reply #10
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
There have been references to this rationality or lack of it on the Forum before. It appears that they acted the way anyone would faced with a dangerous situation.
DB
 

December 15, 2021, 07:14:18 AM
Reply #11
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MDGross


But what if they were not faced with a dangerous situation. Perhaps, for example, they were affected by infrasound and not thinking clearly.
 

December 17, 2021, 10:40:57 AM
Reply #12
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ilahiyol


A single wolverine can't smuggle 9 adults a mile away in the freezing cold. Not possible. And it's so silly. Something happened that none of us could have predicted. And the young people had to leave the tent with their life buoys! There is no other explanation for this. Infrasound, on the other hand, is a one-in-a-million chance, but it can never explain injuries and consistent behavior. Whatever or whoever attacked did it consciously. And everything was planned long in advance. It's not a random case. May God forgive his sins and take him to Heaven.Amen
 

December 17, 2021, 12:59:03 PM
Reply #13
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Ziljoe


Every theory can look silly, but....I think it's good to look at it from every angle, think out side of the box as MD gross is suggesting.

It's difficult to get a true perspective on the facts because there's been so much hype in media and the internet. I guess we all project our own version of what we want it to be.

The investigation suggests that the foot prints looked like the group walked away at a steady pace , in a somewhat organised line.

Yes , this could be because of someone pointing a gun at them and telling them to get off the hillside but it would also suggest the injuries were not inflicted at the area of the tent. That goes for an avalanche too. A small( I said small)  slide of snow could of disrupted the group( I don't think the avalanche theory is suggesting they got broken ribs and swept all the way to the trees) . Infrasound or some noise like thunder or a rumble of rocks may have given the impression that some impending doom was about to happen and they thought best to move down hill.

If it was some government or organised murder, I would have thought that all the cameras/film would have been destroyed , the murders would not have known what pictures were on the film and would not have risked leaving the film.

Things we don't know. We don't know what time of day this happened. We don't know the weather conditions at the time of the exit of the tent. The alleged last photos of the tent being erected doesn't have a time/date stamp. So we are guessing.

The Wolverine theory doesn't suggest that they were smuggled anywhere,  it's a small dog sized ferret that avoids conflict but will take risks when hungry. They will fight and take on wolves and bears if they have to....and win. You can see a wolverine taking on a deer in the video above in Norway , persistant little monster.... ( If the video isn't fake)

The theory for the Wolverine is not about it fighting the group physically or smuggling adults a mile away. It's about the possibility of it using its chemical spray,like a skunk. If it did this spray in the tent it would be concentrated and very disabling. There is a lot to suggest it was a wolverine spray with reference to the investigation and statements, the injuries and deaths are just a series of accidents, cold and bad luck.

 It's made me rethink that the incident could have happened in the morning. The food that was in the tent may have been breakfast, the wood stove may have been packed up and the skis that they use to support the stove and tent ridge was starting to be dismantled by the two who were better dressed. ( I'm sure Igor b will correct me if I've got some of this wrong)

 We don't know much about the wolferine spray today, let alone  in 1959 and there may have been a mild panic if their eyes were stinging etc. So , maybe they got sprayed in the tent, cut the tent to get out( apparently it smells awful) panic was over but they stank and eyes were hurting,if it was good weather , they thought they would go down to the treeline to find running water to try and wash off the worst of the smell , clean their eyes and drink fresh water and leave their kit around the tent to air.( They wouldn't know water doesn't work , not that it would matter) . I do wonder if they got wet in a stream and things went from bad to worse.

It's down at the treeline that things go wrong, and depending on your chosen theory of why they left the tent , Igor b's methodical account of the autopsy can still cover most, if not all of the documented injuries.

 

December 20, 2021, 01:37:41 AM
Reply #14
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Manti


About infrasound: In the modern world, it is an everyday environmental nuisance that many of us are exposed to on a daily basis. Engines (car, train, ship...) produce infrasound, so does road traffic, electric transformers, airplanes, construction work, and so on. Not to mention industry. It can be annoying but if it caused insanity or panic, there would be many cases worldwide. And there are none. There are people who report hearing (sensing) "the hum" and being annoyed by it, but they also don't describe it as a panic, but a persistent annoyance. It wakes them up at night, or prevents them falling asleep, and can compel them to walk around looking for the source, instead of resting. But they don't run from their houses without their coat or shoes...

About the wolverine: 
I agree that it is a compelling theory, more so than most. But there are still too many unlikely things we need to assume: All the searchers must have missed the wolverine prints leading to and from the tent (they describe not finding any animal prints in the area), the wolverine's liquid must have sublimated completely, otherwise the investigator and his colleagues, and anyone who has been in the same building as the tent was kept and examined, must have smelt it, as it melted (I assume it was frozen in/on the tent fabric and the tent's contents, but must have melted at room temperature); the same applies to relatives who received the clothes of the victims; and finally we must assume that the wolverine risked entering the tent for the food there, but then didn't take it, and didn't return for it for a month, even though the tent was empty and there was no threat to it any more.I think in conclusion that if a wolverine caused them to leave the tent, the evidence we're left with would look different: no loin left in the tent, and at least some trace smell still detectable, for example by the ranger who took part in the search, and possibly other things like for example at least one hiker throwing up outside the tent.. and possibly some surviving because after all, all they needed to do is go to the forest, make a fire which they did, warm up a bit, take a long enough branch and fish out their coats etc from the tent, wash them in the stream and dry them by the fire.
 

December 20, 2021, 08:20:38 AM
Reply #15
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Ziljoe


Agree with  your observations Manti.

The Wolverine has quite big feet pads/paws to body weight ratio . I'm not sure if the prints would show up after 3 weeks and I'm not sure how big an area they searched when they say there were no animal prints in the area. ( Could mean a 100m round the tent)The Manti were close by hunting , so they might mean there were no obvious wolf or bear prints around the tent? We definitely know there's predatory animals within the area .There was also a fair amount of snow fall/ drift and wind erosion in the following month that covered a lot of the prints.

There are reports of some of the clothes having orange staining and the the lead searchers hands getting irritation on the skin  after retrieving the bodies from the ravine and this implies the Wolverine.

I believe that if the Wolverine had to spray out of fear and defence( this is different to it's normal use for marking territory or food caches) , it wouldn't have come back for the food or bodies, it doesn't like its own smell. There is poor research on the Wolverine so it is difficult to know how it behaves exactly. ( A lot of guessing on my part)

The statement about the dogs being reluctant to leave the helicopter is of great interest, because of the very fact it was noted or documented . If this was normal or occasional behaviour for dogs , I'm sure it wouldn't have been brought up.  Just another possible nod towards dogs picking up the remaining scent of the spray. ( I don't know if this event is part of the original documentation or a later statement.)

I don't know about the chemical make up of this spray ,how long it would last in cold conditions or if it would freeze. A valid point though.

I agree that if it was the Wolverine then some of the group should of at least survived or it's a chain of very unfortunate events but that goes for every theory.

It looks like they exited the tent in a panic. But it's there, that the panic stops. There seems to be a regrouping once outside the tent. There was no signs of running or stumbling in the foot prints . This does suggest it was either a choice to go to the trees voluntary, or they were forced in that direction by others.

If it was a small snow slide/avalanche then they would have taken more equipment or risked getting somemore . They would know their lives depended on getting an axe , basic equipment etc.

If it was a yeti or aliens , I'd have run all over the mountainside, I'd still be running....with the axe...my choice

If it was staged , then there is no point at looking at the way anything was found . It needs to be looked at from Teddy's perspective. ( I have read some other theory that they got to mt Otornten and that the news letter was to be left at the top of the mountain for the next tourists that would go there.)

If it was other people or group , then it would suggest that they had some sort of overwhelming odds over the Dyatlov group( also , the knowledge that the dyatlov group didn't have a hunting rifle) . This advantage could be weapons or numbers. I do struggle with it being other humans and if it was, I don't think it was planned or premeditated. To risk injury in that environment , even for any attackers could result in their own death. Plus I don't think they were in fear of being attacked. They would all be dressed and armed with knifes and axes ready to go.

If it was strong winds , I'm sure they would have taken more survival kit and be better dressed incase they had to exit the tent. Plus there would have been more stuff scattered on the slope. They would have choice.

So back to the OP, which is a great question by the way.... Did they act rationally or irrationally, or did they have no choice?
------------------------------------------------------------------
By adding the following variables to the various theories and  using the questions above has made me reconsider.

A:Nighttime/supper
    Good weather/visibility

B:Nighttime/supper
    Bad weather/visibility

C:Daytime/breakfast
    Good weather/visibility

D:Daytime/breakfast
    Bad weather/visibility

For example. Wolverine works well with C. All seems rational. Wolverine in tent, spray chemicals, exit tent. Rational to leave tent and go to trees , find stream to clean up eyes and return to a hopefully less smelly tent and equipment. They were in control of their choices.

Make it D however it becomes a little irrational and starts to change things. You wouldn't want to leave without more equipment and a way back to the tent.

Make it A and it becomes a  more irrational again. Pushing the risks way up.( Walking around trees and ravines in the dark is asking for trouble )

If it was B with the Wolverine it becomes very  irrational or little choice. You are walking to your death. Choice has been taken away or the chemicals have got to the brain making them act irrationally ( I can't imagine any smell being that bad)

Attackers would work with  A,B,C,D  but it would mean the Dyatlov group had no choice.

I think they acted rationally if I follow the Wolverine theory with good weather and daylight they had choices . If not the furry beast then it's evident they had no choice....which , unfortunately narrows it down to humans .



 

December 22, 2021, 07:04:08 AM
Reply #16
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MDGross


One scenario that I'm drawn to is this: Tibo was outside on guard duty. Suddenly the wind begins to blow hard and Tibo is knocked down. As he begins to blow down the slope, he screams for help. After cutting the side of the tent open, others rush out to help. Some of them are blown down and now all the others rush out to help. Some distance down the slope everyone is gathered together. Two have broken ribs, two have skull fractures. Kolevatov is also injured. The healthy ones help the injured toward the woods in an orderly manner. It's night and they can't see the tent. Better to head for the woods and try to survive the night. While the two Yuris build a fire, the others dig out a snow den for the four who are injured. But later the snow den collapses, and the four fall into the ravine. As the snow weighs the bodies down over the weeks ahead, chests collapse and more ribs broken. The skull fracture is made worse. The two Yuris freeze to death near the fire. Igor, Rustin and Zina make a desperate attempt to try and find the tent, but die on their way back up the slope.

This scenario, although far from perfect, does explain why they fled the tent without shoes and coats and how some of them were at least partially injured.  dunno1
 
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December 26, 2021, 05:48:33 PM
Reply #17
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
But what if they were not faced with a dangerous situation. Perhaps, for example, they were affected by infrasound and not thinking clearly.

Well thats another what iff. The facts we have suggest that they left the safety of their tent because of a danger of some kind.
DB
 

December 28, 2021, 06:22:27 PM
Reply #18
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Manti


One scenario that I'm drawn to is this: Tibo was outside on guard duty. Suddenly the wind begins to blow hard and Tibo is knocked down. As he begins to blow down the slope, he screams for help. After cutting the side of the tent open, others rush out to help. Some of them are blown down and now all the others rush out to help. Some distance down the slope everyone is gathered together. Two have broken ribs, two have skull fractures. Kolevatov is also injured. The healthy ones help the injured toward the woods in an orderly manner. It's night and they can't see the tent. Better to head for the woods and try to survive the night. While the two Yuris build a fire, the others dig out a snow den for the four who are injured. But later the snow den collapses, and the four fall into the ravine. As the snow weighs the bodies down over the weeks ahead, chests collapse and more ribs broken. The skull fracture is made worse. The two Yuris freeze to death near the fire. Igor, Rustin and Zina make a desperate attempt to try and find the tent, but die on their way back up the slope.

This scenario, although far from perfect, does explain why they fled the tent without shoes and coats and how some of them were at least partially injured.  dunno1
I like this scenario because it's simple and plausible. I think the dark tent would be visible against a uniform white snowy mountainside even at night.. but not if there was a snowstorm, or fog.. and it looks like from their last photos that there indeed was a storm.


If it was staged , then there is no point at looking at the way anything was found . It needs to be looked at from Teddy's perspective. ( I have read some other theory that they got to mt Otornten and that the news letter was to be left at the top of the mountain for the next tourists that would go there.)


Was this theory on a Russian forum? I also think they must have made Evening Otorten as an "easter egg" to leave at the Otorten summit. And I remember reading a theory long ago that was referring to some unsourced Mansi testimony about a group in the area that was lost and wandering for days... according to that theory they made it to Otorten, then back, and were trying to find the labaz because they were running low on food...


But back to the topic of rationality... to me it's not even a question that they would start acting irrationally after leaving the tent. We know they were not fully dressed and it was cold, and hypothermia leads to hallucinations, agitation etc.


And one of the easiest ways to get cold (in my experience) is while sleeping..... While awake it's much harder because you do something about it before it's too late. So I was thinking maybe they did spend a night without the stove, or tried to.. And got hypothermia in the tent. Let's say the temperature dropped more than they expected, they were at a higher elevation, more exposed, no trees to moderate the wind, maybe there was even a cold front... And possibly some members of the group got advanced hypothermia and from then on it's a similar course of events like what MDGross describes above: they need to warm up these people quickly, and the stove is not assembled so their only choice is to go to the forest and make a bonfire. And possibly these hypothermic people are in the paranoid, aggressive phase which might even explain some of the injuries. And yes possibly they then fell into the stream and got wet which just made their problem worse
 

December 29, 2021, 06:08:03 AM
Reply #19
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Ziljoe


Hi Manti. I think I found the link  on this site, if not it was a link from Teddy's trailer to her book on utube. I think it was a Russian site. Basically it implied that the group had got to the mountain , dropped their"Easter egg" but there had been some military exercise going on and that their bodies and tent was relocated to where they were found. ( I've been down so many rabbit holes I'm not sure which way is up).

Back to topic though. I don't think they would have got hypothermia all at the same time ( or the same stage)and the sticking point with many of the scenarios is ,why didn't they take more survival kit, axes, clothes, blankets etc. To me,It would imply they had no choice or they were behaving irrationally?.

(There is a report in the case files that several of the blankets in the tent were rolled up in a ball ,frozen. I can't for the life of me even come up with an explanation for that in any of the theories.)
 

December 29, 2021, 06:26:38 AM
Reply #20
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Игорь Б.


(There is a report in the case files that several of the blankets in the tent were rolled up in a ball ,frozen. I can't for the life of me even come up with an explanation for that in any of the theories.)
Скомканные одеяла указывают на события в палатке.
Изначально одеяла были расстелены на полу. Вскочившие и отступившие вглубь палатки люди скомкали их ногами. Кстати, поэтому упали средняя и задняя стойки палатки. Вскочившие на ноги люди подняли тент в задней половине палатки и стойки упали.
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 
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December 29, 2021, 07:50:05 AM
Reply #21
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Ziljoe


(There is a report in the case files that several of the blankets in the tent were rolled up in a ball ,frozen. I can't for the life of me even come up with an explanation for that in any of the theories.)
Скомканные одеяла указывают на события в палатке.
Изначально одеяла были расстелены на полу. Вскочившие и отступившие вглубь палатки люди скомкали их ногами. Кстати, поэтому упали средняя и задняя стойки палатки. Вскочившие на ноги люди подняли тент в задней половине палатки и стойки упали.

But why frozen?
 

December 29, 2021, 05:39:56 PM
Reply #22
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Игорь Б.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 01:51:37 AM by Игорь Б. »
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 
The following users thanked this post: Ziljoe

December 30, 2021, 05:49:59 AM
Reply #23
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Ziljoe


 

January 02, 2022, 01:56:55 PM
Reply #24
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RMK


One scenario that I'm drawn to is this: Tibo was outside on guard duty. Suddenly the wind begins to blow hard and Tibo is knocked down. As he begins to blow down the slope, he screams for help. After cutting the side of the tent open, others rush out to help. Some of them are blown down and now all the others rush out to help. Some distance down the slope everyone is gathered together. Two have broken ribs, two have skull fractures. Kolevatov is also injured. The healthy ones help the injured toward the woods in an orderly manner. It's night and they can't see the tent. Better to head for the woods and try to survive the night. While the two Yuris build a fire, the others dig out a snow den for the four who are injured. But later the snow den collapses, and the four fall into the ravine. As the snow weighs the bodies down over the weeks ahead, chests collapse and more ribs broken. The skull fracture is made worse. The two Yuris freeze to death near the fire. Igor, Rustin and Zina make a desperate attempt to try and find the tent, but die on their way back up the slope.

This scenario, although far from perfect, does explain why they fled the tent without shoes and coats and how some of them were at least partially injured.  dunno1
Maslennikov initially guessed at a similar scenario.  From his second notebook: "the group had dinner (there are food leftovers in the tent) and began to undress in order change their wet clothes, boots and put on dry ones. It was at that moment that something happened that made the group half-dressed run out of the tent and rush down the slope. Perhaps someone dressed came out to relief himself, he was blown away. The responders to the scream were also carried away."
 

January 06, 2022, 08:35:26 PM
Reply #25
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Manti


Sorry to be the party pooper but it couldn't have been the wind ("tornado theory"). The mansi "chum" constructed from branches with an antler at the top was not blown away.

Doesn't really matter what it was though, maybe someone just slipped and then began rolling down the slope.Maybe someone stepped on a leftover landmine from the times the Ural mountains were expected to be what stops a German invasion....Perhaps someone had a bout of "arctic hysteria".
 

January 11, 2022, 09:05:48 AM
Reply #26
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ElizabethHarris


I know I'm beating a dead horse here lol, but Zina's death was ruled as violence and hypothermia. Strange conclusion, isn't it? Especially since I think she was the only one whose death was labeled as "violent." (possibly 1 other?) We could gather that the word 'violent' doesn't mean at the hand of another, but if not, why weren't all the hikers determined to have "violence" play a part in their deaths? Why only her?
 

January 15, 2022, 11:02:08 PM
Reply #27
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GlennM


Wolverines scare the living but do not eat the dead? Tree falls on people but there is no suitable fallen branch on the ground? Hikers create a cache then deliberately walk a mile down hill only to have to regain the altitude the next day? The simplest answers are no wolverine,no tree branch and no turning right at the cache. They camped, were startled by ground tremors produced by the earth or an atmospheric disturbance. They ran for their lives, then collected themselves and walked To safety underestimating the distance at night, a fatal mistake.
 

January 16, 2022, 09:04:00 AM
Reply #28
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Manti


I know I'm beating a dead horse here lol, but Zina's death was ruled as violence and hypothermia. Strange conclusion, isn't it? Especially since I think she was the only one whose death was labeled as "violent." (possibly 1 other?) We could gather that the word 'violent' doesn't mean at the hand of another, but if not, why weren't all the hikers determined to have "violence" play a part in their deaths? Why only her?

This is from the case files:
Quote
Sheet 134
Conclusion
Based on the investigation of the body of Kolmogorova Zinaida Alekseevna, 22 years old, and taking into account the circumstances of the case, we feel that the death of Kolmogorova was the result of cool temperatures/freezing, as evidenced by the swelling of the meninges, the hyperaemia of the internal organs, the dark liquid blood in the heart cavities, the Wischnewsky spots on the gastric mucosa, and the fourth-degree frostbite on the third distal phalanges of the fingers; the injuries found on Kolmogorova’s body in the form of abrasions and skin wounds were caused by a blunt instrument and the result of a fall and injuries on rocks, ice and snow.
The above-mentioned injuries occurred while Kolmogorova was alive, in the agonal state, and posthumously.
The investigation of the body of Komogоrova allows for the basis of theory that she last ate 6-8 hours before the time of death. Alcohol was not detected during the investigation. Kolmogorova’s virginity is still intact. The cause of death was violent and accidental.
seal
 
Forensic Expert of the Region
 Forensic Expertise Bureau
signature/Vozrozhdenny/
Forensic Expert City of
 Severouralsk
signature/Laptev/
So "violent", but "accidental"
 

January 16, 2022, 09:16:11 AM
Reply #29
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Manti


Wolverines scare the living but do not eat the dead? Tree falls on people but there is no suitable fallen branch on the ground? Hikers create a cache then deliberately walk a mile down hill only to have to regain the altitude the next day? The simplest answers are no wolverine,no tree branch and no turning right at the cache. They camped, were startled by ground tremors produced by the earth or an atmospheric disturbance. They ran for their lives, then collected themselves and walked To safety underestimating the distance at night, a fatal mistake.
Maybe it's as simple as that... I think what really makes the DPI a mystery is all the little detail we know, for example the cuts in the tent from the inside, and that someone who made those cuts made multiple attempts, and had spent a considerable amount of time.. so it wasn't to exit the tent in a rush.

But maybe the tent was damaged later, by searchers.

Also I still maintain that walking downhill is illogical in case of a tremor or rock slide, as in case of an avalanche, as it puts you directly in the path of danger.

And the other major detail is the injuries of the Ravine 4... though these might be posthumous, but the pathologist thought otherwise. Maybe they triggered an avalanche in the ravine while building the snow cave?