May 18, 2022, 06:39:00 PM
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Author Topic: One event or three separate events  (Read 4261 times)

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January 27, 2021, 03:39:09 PM
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GKM


On the night the DG group died was there one single event that ended all their lives? Was there three separate events starting at the tent, another at the cedar tree, and yet another at the ravine? Are the three hikers dead on the slope a different event also? I believe one event set in motion a chain of semi events leading to their deaths. Three separate events seems impractical. My opinion is everything is connected therefore one event, in one way or the other, was the downfall of all the group. Something set off a chain reaction that they could not stop or perhaps were unable to stop, and I believe, my opinion only, that it started early in the hike, without their knowledge, and finally caught up with them.
 

January 27, 2021, 03:43:03 PM
Reply #1
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GKM


Let's see if we can discuss this without involving a yeti or a UFO.
 

January 27, 2021, 03:49:53 PM
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GKM


I also believe the order of their deaths and the placement of the bodies will tell us a great deal about what EXACTLY happened that night......or day.
 

January 27, 2021, 04:05:19 PM
Reply #3

DAXXY

Guest
it's the 'Incident Pit' theory at work.  A decision in a situation at certain times leads to action, then another decision..and action...and consequences to those decisions...
 

January 29, 2021, 04:41:27 AM
Reply #4
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
On the night the DG group died was there one single event that ended all their lives? Was there three separate events starting at the tent, another at the cedar tree, and yet another at the ravine? Are the three hikers dead on the slope a different event also? I believe one event set in motion a chain of semi events leading to their deaths. Three separate events seems impractical. My opinion is everything is connected therefore one event, in one way or the other, was the downfall of all the group. Something set off a chain reaction that they could not stop or perhaps were unable to stop, and I believe, my opinion only, that it started early in the hike, without their knowledge, and finally caught up with them.

If there was one Event then how come bodies were in different positions  !  ?  And also the different types of injuries  ! ?
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 04:42:53 AM
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sarapuk

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Let's see if we can discuss this without involving a yeti or a UFO.

Well you make the mistake of introducing censorship in to your Investigation. In the Case Files you will find reference to Yeti and UFO.
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 04:44:51 AM
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sarapuk

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I also believe the order of their deaths and the placement of the bodies will tell us a great deal about what EXACTLY happened that night......or day.

Yes thats what Members of the Forum have been doing since the Forum was set up, trying to figure out what actually happened.
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 05:08:58 AM
Reply #7
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
On the night the DG group died was there one single event that ended all their lives? Was there three separate events starting at the tent, another at the cedar tree, and yet another at the ravine? Are the three hikers dead on the slope a different event also? I believe one event set in motion a chain of semi events leading to their deaths. Three separate events seems impractical. My opinion is everything is connected therefore one event, in one way or the other, was the downfall of all the group. Something set off a chain reaction that they could not stop or perhaps were unable to stop, and I believe, my opinion only, that it started early in the hike, without their knowledge, and finally caught up with them.

Yes, one event, that triggered other events that led to their deaths.  A huge explosion followed by an avalanche, of melt water, snow, ice, mud and rocks into the ravine area where they were camped?  See topic posted earlier.

Regards

Star man

 
 

January 29, 2021, 07:20:54 AM
Reply #8

eurocentric

Guest
I reached the conclusion that Semyon's camera is the key to everything, the DPI cypher. The only theories which seem to work, tick the most boxes, are those which include why Semyon had a camera around his neck. It doesn't even require a subjective interpretation of the exposures, just why he had that camera around his neck during whatever unfolded.

It's the equivalent of your house being on fire and people are surprised you didn't grab your family photo's or valuables, just a telephone directory. The camera is useless for survival, but it may be useful for documenting evidence should you live or die, and you may hang on to it because of what you hope it already reveals.

This is why emergency theories like avalanche, slab slip, mudslides etc don't fit, unless, at a stretch, Semyon happened to be tinkering with his camera, the strap around his neck, when this happened and it then remains with him and it and the strap survives the disaster. But the greater likelihood is he made an active choice to take it, and above other tools more useful for survival.

The theories which include the camera are those which involve either an attack of some kind, or the fear of one. The camera provides incriminating evidence, where because it's minus a flashgun only the noise of the shutter may give the game away in the dark.

All these theories revolve around one initiating event where the consequences of the extreme environment then unfold. I don't believe that Murphy's Law delivered the worst hand through a single night, so that, for example, ball lightning chased them off the ridge after which they were hectored by third party humans and then died of the cold.

Military - accidental killing/mistaken identity at night, likely thermobaric grenades, fuel-air mixture expanding before igniting, delayed lung damage, embolisms, and soiling themselves, due to the way a vacuum bomb interacts with air/gas in the chest, blood/brain (microscopically) and intestines, head injuries from shrapnel or from being thrown by blastwave. Cover-up next day, resiting of tent, or if all hikers died at the tent on the ridge, the repositioning of the bodies at the cedar and den, to imply death was due to natural causes.

Deer hunter/Mansi/escapees - use hiker tracks to & from tent, force hikers out unprepared, occupy tent overnight, eat their food, vandalise tent in morning. Motive resentment, for Mansi/deerhunter, perhaps at 'noisy tourists' scaring off deer. Escapees, for food & shelter, perfect overnight cover from military search. Hikers die of the cold, possibly some finished off by Mansi to bury the truth as events will rebound on their community forever.

Group dispute & split - high stress on the ridge, knife fight in tent, knife held aloft by wrist pinned by another hiker, tent scored and then cut, tent useless. Cannot stay together overnight, or think survival chances better elsewhere, so Semyon's group leaves to dig a den (doesn't need wood cutting tools), Igor's group stays, then leaves to light fire as the cold descends (forgets tools & full clothing due to hypothermic effects). Fire fails, two die, then a Lord Of The Flies battle occurs, explaining knuckle injuries to the 3 most athletic, where the den 4 are murdered and their bodies put in the ravine. The victors occupy the den, and at first light try to return to the tent but die of exhaustion and exposure.

Fear- either after a direct confrontation, the hikers vulnerable and unarmed, or simply the fear of one drives them up the mountain unprepared, without sufficient fuel, and the cold does the rest in such an exposed position, and from exhaustion and the cold thereafter.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 08:00:34 AM by eurocentric »
 

January 29, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
Reply #9

DAXXY

Guest
There is a danger that just because it appears to be a mystery that there must be some sinister 'others' that are involved, but it need not be the case.  Terrible things happen for mundane and easily explainable reasons.

The Buryatia  Incident August 1993
https://dyatlovpass.com/hamar-daban
A group of tourists from Kazakhstan, led by professional climber Lyudmila Korovina. Once they made it to Buryatia, the group set out on a journey across the Chamar-Daban mountain range on 2 August. The weather wasn’t on their side: it was pouring down cold rain and snow. Nevertheless, the group continued on their route relatively safely until 5 August.

Six out of seven in their group did not survive.
The only survivor, Valentina Utochenko, 17, later wrote in a statement how, during the difficult descent, carried out in near zero visibility, one of the members of the group was struck down hard, foaming at the mouth and bleeding from the ears. The rest of the group shortly developed the same symptoms.

(Yuri Doroshenko autopsy....right cheek soft tissue covered with gray foam; gray liquid coming form his open mouth. Most apparent cause is pulmonary edema).

The six members who died had done so almost simultaneously, after rolling around on the ground, tearing their clothes off and clutching their throats. The young woman was left alone. Nearly unconscious, she navigated the power lines until she reached the river at the bottom, where she was rescued by a group of kayaking tourists.

Chivruay 1973
https://dyatlovpass.com/chivruay-incident-2?lid=1

'The same day I flew to Irkutsk with the rescue team of our university's mountaineering club and spent more than a week completing the search that was launched when he disappeared in 1972. I can draw similarities between this episode and the search for Dyatlov group. The body was very badly and quickly destroyed by water after thawing. During the whole winter, the body was frozen in ice near the bank of the Kitoy River, near the Fedyushkina River, 13 km (8 mi) down from where it had disappeared.'
'We arrived 5 or 6 days later and found that parts of body tissues washed with water were almost completely destroyed to the bone'
'This was an illustration of the damage water can do in less than a week'.

'It is necessary to note an important observation, very often referred to in the Dyatlov case, the red or orange color of the bodies. The discoloration is attributed to anything but natural causes (see #Orange). In fact, the recently extracted frozen body does have a reddish color, more accurately red-orange. It's a common occurrence in deaths due to cold. The precise medical definition can be found in the Handbook of Forensic Medicine, it’s called frosty erythema or Keferstein stains.'

'All members of the group who left the tent were adequately dressed but the weather was extreme. Survival under such conditions is a big challenge in general. Everyone had a full set of hiking clothes and extra sweaters. Some had double and triple wool sweaters. Lidiya Martina, Valentin Zemlyanov and Artyom Lekant were wearing insulated jackets. Ilya Altshuler was additionally wearing a warm aviation winter jacket but he didn't wear gloves. Judging by all indications, he died of total exhaustion and lost muscles tone. It is enough to stop only for a few minutes and an irreversible cooling process would begin'.

 

January 30, 2021, 11:42:35 PM
Reply #10
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Nicknonora


it's the 'Incident Pit' theory at work.  A decision in a situation at certain times leads to action, then another decision..and action...and consequences to those decisions...

My feeling about this has been something happened at the tent, causing a few to go downhill, and then it just "snowballs" from there. Another group decides to go out to save the first group. Another group waits and goes later. Then downhill, different things happen at different times.
 

February 15, 2021, 01:06:24 PM
Reply #11
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ash73


On the night the DG group died was there one single event that ended all their lives?

It's an interesting question. I think you can deduce there must have been at least two events, because if there was only one event how would you explain those in the ravine with the most serious injuries having the most clothes?
 

February 16, 2021, 01:39:11 AM
Reply #12
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Nigel Evans


I'd agree with eurocentric that Semyon's camera is an interesting feature of the case and if (as everyone believes?) the Eagle photo is genuinely of a light in the sky then it points at the answer. But natural or man made? Ivanov saw all the evidence first hand and Okishev described him as thorough and meticulous and we all know what Ivanov thought.... But then we're back to ufos which no one wants to talk about because that's silly.
 

February 16, 2021, 11:05:01 AM
Reply #13
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I'd agree with eurocentric that Semyon's camera is an interesting feature of the case and if (as everyone believes?) the Eagle photo is genuinely of a light in the sky then it points at the answer. But natural or man made? Ivanov saw all the evidence first hand and Okishev described him as thorough and meticulous and we all know what Ivanov thought.... But then we're back to ufos which no one wants to talk about because that's silly.

Well Iam always happy to talk about UFO's Nigel. Its those 3 letters that put people off, but whats the alternative, because the letters clearly stand for Unidentified Flying Object, yet straight away its got to be Aliens in a Flying Saucer.  Well maybe it is.  But it may be something else as well and thats a good reason why people should take more notice. Thats what Investigation is all about. Fire away.
DB
 

February 16, 2021, 04:38:07 PM
Reply #14
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Nigel Evans


I'd agree with eurocentric that Semyon's camera is an interesting feature of the case and if (as everyone believes?) the Eagle photo is genuinely of a light in the sky then it points at the answer. But natural or man made? Ivanov saw all the evidence first hand and Okishev described him as thorough and meticulous and we all know what Ivanov thought.... But then we're back to ufos which no one wants to talk about because that's silly.

Well Iam always happy to talk about UFO's Nigel. Its those 3 letters that put people off, but whats the alternative, because the letters clearly stand for Unidentified Flying Object, yet straight away its got to be Aliens in a Flying Saucer.  Well maybe it is.  But it may be something else as well and thats a good reason why people should take more notice. Thats what Investigation is all about. Fire away.
Absolutely!  kewl1
 

February 25, 2021, 04:36:31 PM
Reply #15

tenne

Guest
What I find very interesting is that the bodies appear to be grouped by injury. I believe that the two under the cedar were murdered by having their neck snapped, then the 4 bodies in the ravine had violent injuries and the 3 on the way up to the tent? seemed to have died from exposure. I personally think they were put there after death and didn't die in those places.
 

February 25, 2021, 08:37:07 PM
Reply #16
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Manti


and I believe, my opinion only, that it started early in the hike, without their knowledge, and finally caught up with them.

So you didn't elaborate, what are you thinking of? Perhaps a conflict in the group, or an illness, something like that?
 

February 26, 2021, 10:54:54 AM
Reply #17
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
What I find very interesting is that the bodies appear to be grouped by injury. I believe that the two under the cedar were murdered by having their neck snapped, then the 4 bodies in the ravine had violent injuries and the 3 on the way up to the tent? seemed to have died from exposure. I personally think they were put there after death and didn't die in those places.

Grouped by injury  ! ?   Bit confused. Also, I dont recall any mention of snapped necks.
DB
 

February 26, 2021, 11:46:39 AM
Reply #18

tenne

Guest
I can't post more about it because every time I do, some incredibly childish individuals gets their panties in a bunch and yell and scream it isn't an appropriate subject to talk about. Not that I'm wrong, just I'm inappropriate to point it out and discuss it. Read what happens when men get hanged and examine the autopsy photos of Yuri Krivonischenko. In my opinion, his neck was snapped for sure
 

February 26, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
Reply #19
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Manti


I don't see anything unusual with his neck, are you sure you mean Krivo?
 

February 26, 2021, 03:06:38 PM
Reply #20

tenne

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February 26, 2021, 03:16:17 PM
Reply #21
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RMK


tenne, are you trying to hint at something like postmortem priapism?
 

February 26, 2021, 03:44:02 PM
Reply #22

tenne

Guest
yes, but I've been kicked off a forum for suggesting that. Because some idiots got their panties in a bunch for daring to discuss male anatomy, even though it perfectly fine to discuss if the women were sexually active.
 

February 26, 2021, 04:14:14 PM
Reply #23
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RMK


yes, but I've been kicked off a forum for suggesting that. Because some idiots got their panties in a bunch for daring to discuss male anatomy, even though it perfectly fine to discuss if the women were sexually active.
Well, this forum has no rules against mere discussion of human genitalia, as long as such discussion remains civil and respectful.  And I certainly have no objection to such a topic.

So, I'll bite...  Until today, I had never closely looked at Krivonischenko's crotch in the morgue photos.  What do you claim I should be able to see there?

I can't make out any bruising or abrasions on his neck, nor any sign that his neck is broken.  And any sign of asphyxiation, cerebral hypoxia, or a severed spinal cord would certainly be noted in the autopsy report.

What exactly is your case for death by snapped neck for the two Yuris, or at least for Krivonischenko?
 

February 26, 2021, 04:14:44 PM
Reply #24
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KFinn


yes, but I've been kicked off a forum for suggesting that. Because some idiots got their panties in a bunch for daring to discuss male anatomy, even though it perfectly fine to discuss if the women were sexually active.

I'm not an admin obviously (and still relatively new to posting here, even so) but if you are able to prove your point with factual evidence, what does it matter if that involves genitalia? 

In this case, can you elaborate where you found evidence of priapism?  Not all hangings result in traumatic neck or spinal injury, that usually occurs when there is a quick descent and the body snaps after the descent is stopped by the rope.  So Krivo not having a spinal or neck injury wouldn't rule out the possibility of hanging and we have theories based on lesser evidence.  You have me curious, for what's it's worth, as long as its allowed by the forum.  Not my call but its a path I have not yet heard. 
-Ren
 

February 26, 2021, 04:37:28 PM
Reply #25

tenne

Guest
https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Krivonischenko

click on the post mortem photos and check it out. I was looking at them and comparing them to the autopsy reports when I noticed. As to why it was a problem? Pathetic people enjoy being pathetic
 

February 26, 2021, 05:06:39 PM
Reply #26
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KFinn


https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Krivonischenko

click on the post mortem photos and check it out. I was looking at them and comparing them to the autopsy reports when I noticed. As to why it was a problem? Pathetic people enjoy being pathetic

I definitely see bulk but I'm not certain that I see erection.  Now, I also don't see petechiae in either his open eye or the skin around his eyes.  It is not mentioned in the autopsy report.  There are no abrasions on his neck and the autopsy states that, "The bones of the base of the skull are intact."  So, how else could we support this theory?  It doesn't look like a rope hanging, but that not does rule out asphyxiation necessarily, although you would most likely see petechiae.  The autopsy report doesn't find broken bones in the neck, so I'd think it would have to involve asphyxiation if we follow this route. 

How do you see his death?  Smothering, hanging, etc?  Smothering could be possible.  It leaves less traces than a broken neck.  More covert and if the killers wanted to make it look less suspicious, that would be less obvious.  (I'm typing as I think through the possibilities so if it seems to be a weird jump from one sentence to another its me, lol!)
-Ren
 

February 26, 2021, 05:06:43 PM
Reply #27
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
There is nothing in the Autopsy Reports that mention snapped necks.
DB
 

February 26, 2021, 05:13:17 PM
Reply #28

tenne

Guest
No there isn't anything in the reports about it. But that leaves the question how accurate anything is. I haven't read anything that indicates to me that the autopsy wasn't covered up like the rest of it
 

February 26, 2021, 05:15:04 PM
Reply #29

tenne

Guest
https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Krivonischenko

click on the post mortem photos and check it out. I was looking at them and comparing them to the autopsy reports when I noticed. As to why it was a problem? Pathetic people enjoy being pathetic

I definitely see bulk but I'm not certain that I see erection.  Now, I also don't see petechiae in either his open eye or the skin around his eyes.  It is not mentioned in the autopsy report.  There are no abrasions on his neck and the autopsy states that, "The bones of the base of the skull are intact."  So, how else could we support this theory?  It doesn't look like a rope hanging, but that not does rule out asphyxiation necessarily, although you would most likely see petechiae.  The autopsy report doesn't find broken bones in the neck, so I'd think it would have to involve asphyxiation if we follow this route. 

How do you see his death?  Smothering, hanging, etc?  Smothering could be possible.  It leaves less traces than a broken neck.  More covert and if the killers wanted to make it look less suspicious, that would be less obvious.  (I'm typing as I think through the possibilities so if it seems to be a weird jump from one sentence to another its me, lol!)

I think he was in a fight and his necked was broken. Other than that, no idea