Dyatlov Pass Forum

Miscellaneous => Non-DP Related Mysteries! => Topic started by: Investigator on April 02, 2021, 08:14:33 PM

Title: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Investigator on April 02, 2021, 08:14:33 PM
Let's start with my understanding.  They began on August 2 and all but one died on August 5, and the autopsies led to the conclusion the dead were killed by hypothermia and something about malnutrition?  I want to clear up the point about some form of malnutrition, because it's supposed to take about two weeks for this to occur, and I'm assuming they ate well up until August 2.  What was the basis of the malnutrition claim (what was found during the autopsies)?  Could there be some sort of translation issue (I don't speak nor read Russian)?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Manti on April 02, 2021, 10:40:18 PM
This site (https://www.rbth.com/history/330020-russia-dyatlov-pass-mystery-analogues) mentions "protein deficiency".

When I read about that incident I assumed "malnutrition" is mistranslation of "food poisoning", but it's harder to imagine that protein deficiency is mistranslation...


Symptoms are really strangeThe fact there is a survivor apparently in good health all but rules that out though....
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Manti on April 02, 2021, 11:10:19 PM
Some interesting theories here (https://medium.com/the-mystery-box/the-most-credible-theories-regarding-the-khamar-daban-incident-ae84d8a60be2):
Eating poisonous mushrooms, drinking contaminated water, and... nerve agents...
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Teddy on April 03, 2021, 12:11:00 AM
I published information about this incident here: https://dyatlovpass.com/hamar-daban


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnYphRRF71M
There are man made Russian and ENGLISH subtitles to this video (switch from Settings)


Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Investigator on April 03, 2021, 09:41:52 AM
Thanks, Teddy, but would you mind summing things up for us: do you think lack of food (or protein-rich food) is a possible issue here, because that doesn't seem consistent with eating little for only a few days?  I would guess that food poisoning, possibly of different toxic plants, could have been a factor, though we can't be sure (and like Manti I was wondering about a mistranslation of some kind).
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Teddy on April 03, 2021, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Investigator on April 03, 2021, 09:41:52 AM
and like Manti I was wondering about a mistranslation of some kind.

I translated it myself, I don't see ambiguous language, only not enough information.
My way of interacting with a mystery case is gather information. This is my strength. I don't try to interpret until I have a conviction i.e. till I am convinced. I am well aware by now I shouldn't try to convince anybody in anything. I usually apply my own experience too. I can only say that the Korovina group tragedy doesn't seem like a malnutrition to me. Malnutrition doesn't explain why were they barefoot for example, and dressed in leotards only. Why were they going mad. I don't have an explanation for this incident.
In this case we do have a survivor, a real one, not like Yudin, who turned back, and was clueless till his death. Here we have a witness. This makes all look very strange.
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Investigator on April 03, 2021, 11:52:53 AM
I agree, Teddy, and I'd guess that being outrageously hungry (and possibly weak due to that) may have been a major factor (in terms of odd behavior and bad decision-making).  I also like to put myself in the position of the people involved.  Here we have teenagers who were wet, super hungry, and possibly ill due to eating the wrong plants (though not to the point of that showing up in toxicology testing).  The leader of the group was the one "expert"' and the one member of the group who did a lot of the "heavy lifting" were dead or telling them to leave. They may not have felt that going down to the tree line would do much for them, since they didn't believe they had the skills to survive and were very tired, hungry, and perhaps "not in their right minds" for whatever reason (some have mentioned altitude "sickness" too).  They may have thought that staying in that open area would help rescuers find them, and didn't think that as a group they would have the requisite surivival skills without the leader and "heavy lifter."  So, I actually don't find what happened to be all that strange, other than claims about the medical issues, though it's possible the surivivor could have embellished (such as to say that several had a symptom whereas only one did), in order to make her decision seem more reasonable (or she may have hallucinated, though I think this is the least likely explanation).  As their physical conditions deteriorated (internally and externally), that is when bizarre behavior and medical conditions would be more likely, and the leader apparently was known as "tough" and preferred a Spartan approach, but to see such deterioration after just a few days seems very stange.
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Manti on April 03, 2021, 12:00:03 PM
That video is actual footage of the search, right? And not a recreation?

The bodies seem to be wearing more than just leotards.

Anyway I apologise, I assume translation errors more often than I should perhaps as English is not my first language, but there is very little info available in my first language so anything I read about these cases goes through multiple translations, the last one happens as I read the English text so I got accustomed to not take everything as accurate word-by-word.
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Teddy on April 03, 2021, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: Manti on April 03, 2021, 12:00:03 PM
That video is actual footage of the search, right? And not a recreation?

The bodies seem to be wearing more than just leotards.

Anyway I apologise, I assume translation errors more often than I should perhaps as English is not my first language, but there is very little info available in my first language so anything I read about these cases goes through multiple translations, the last one happens as I read the English text so I got accustomed to not take everything as accurate word-by-word.

No need to apologize.
The footage is real.
The article says "The scene was terrible, rescuers recall. Almost all of the victims were dressed in thin leotards, and three were barefoot."
I am not interpreting, merely citing.
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Hamar-Daban-article-page-2.jpg
Title: Re: Are the basic facts of the 1993 Korovina group incident well established?
Post by: Investigator on April 04, 2021, 11:34:43 AM
Thinking about possible scenarios that make sense, it could be that the lone survivor went down to the tree line and stayed there an hour or two, yelling up for the others to come back down.  Eventually, she went back up to try and get them to follow her back down, but they were all dead by that point, so the key here is that the others were at much higher altitude, being battered by strong winds, rain, and the unseasonably cold temperature, for a time long enough to kill them.  The protein malnutrition claim may  have come from a muscle biopsy, and that would not likely be relevant anyway (because they were only hiking a few days), though lack of proper daily calories could have played a factor in terms of how quickly they died under those harsh conditions.  The first to die, the oldest male, could have slipped, hit his head, and suffered a nasty concusion:

"The [leader] woke us, ordered to collect things and descend into the gorge. She tried to save us. Just did not have time. The wind was so strong that we slipped down, and not walked. Suddenly Sasha fell. He had a foam from his mouth."

https://zizuhotel.ru/en/anapa/pereval-dyatlova-gruppa-lyudmily-korovinoi-zagadochnaya-gibel/

Concussions can cause foaming from the mouth, though the information is poorly translated so perhaps this is not as useful as it appears.  The survivor may have said she saw more bleeding from the nose or ears and foaming from the mouth than there actually was, either due to her psychological state or because she wanted people to think the scene was more horrifying than it actually was (and so she was right to leave at that point, even if one or two may have still had a pulse).  She described it as a scene from a horror movie, which indeed it may have come across to most people, and so it is understandable that she wanted to get away from there, but in retrospect she may have thought a lot of people would say she abandoned those who were still alive, if that is how things developed, and so modified the "real story."