Theories Discussion > Yeti / Snowman
Evening Otorten №1
knocker:
--- Quote from: Puchiko on February 09, 2019, 07:24:33 AM ---I haven't been able to find anything specific about Yuri's alibi, but I would presume that as incompetent as the investigators were, they would bother to check that Yuri did actually come back to Vizhay.
And Ludmila's injuries couldn't have been caused by a beating anyway.
--- End quote ---
I would assume Uncle Slava the horse sled driver was his alibi. Uncle Slava, the Lithuanian enemy of the state who was rounded up in 1949, spent 10 years in the gulag, and was just released into the general population. Probably swept up in Operation Priobi. The conditions of their imprisonment were so terrible, only 15% of the detainees survived. Look it up. He was central to the story too.
So you have a disillusioned comrade of questionable political belief, and a Lithuanian counterrevolutionary just out of the gulag as the last people who saw the intrepid band of dedicated communist hikers alive.
And are we really sure a rifle butt to the chest, likely repeatedly, couldn't have caused those injuries? Jumping on the chest with both feet, are we sure that couldn't do it? Some people said some of the injuries are similar to what Russian state interrogators would have inflicted on people. You can well imagine Uncle Slava would have seen it all in his 10 years of living in the gulag system.
I said one or two people could have done that. If there was a second, you look at Uncle Slava as the co-conspirator. If we could see the police files, I bet you see they had him at the station for a very long time for questioning, probably both.
You guys have to remember one thing about the old Soviet Union. It was official policy that nothing bad ever happened in the Soviet Worker's Paradise. The state was in control of everything, nothing happened without their permission. The state was all powerful. To admit officially that anybody got away with murder was not something it did. Because it demonstrated that the state was not all powerful. So that was never going to be admitted officially in any report. But I bet you the actual police files tell a much different story.
Nobody can find a motive. I just laid one out, speculative at best, but the best one so far.
Puchiko:
None of the murder theories work.
The attacker(s) would have to be powerful enough to force all nine out of the tent, but wouldn't prevent Zolotaryov from carrying a camera. Remember, these were nine young and physically strong people. Yuri and an old man wouldn't have been strong enough to overpower them. After forcing them out of the tent, they'd let them walk a mile, build a fire and the den (if it was a den). Why?
Then meet up with them at the ravine and finish them off with superhuman internal injuries but no soft tissue damage. Leave Zolotaryov's camera on his neck, not fearing it contained images of the attackers.
There's also no foreign footsteps at the scene, although I consider all of the evidence regarding the footsteps to be so poorly documented that I don't really take them into account. But the above is enough in my opinion.
knocker:
"...Yuri Yudin goes back home today. It is a pity, of course, that he leaves us. Especially for me and Zina, but nothing can be done about it..."
I'm beginning to believe that the above statement is actually sarcastic. Kolmogorova expressed the same general sentiment, of his leaving being, "a pity."
Yes, Yura Yudin is leaving us today. His sciatic nerves inflamed again and he is leaving. Such a pity.
Years ago I remember reading that when NKVD chief Yagoda was arrested, he told his captors, "It is a pity I didn't arrest(or kill) you when I had the chance." Not sure of the exact wording, but it was something close to that.
I get the feeling that when Russians speak of things being a pity, it's usually sarcasm. Like we might say.... "I heard that jerk fell down and broke his leg. Too bad he didn't break both of them." Maybe a Russian speaker could clarify that. It is interesting that in the very same diary entry Kolmogorova says:
Today I wore Yuri's mittens, but how I did not want to! I was told that is not good not to accept them, so I took them. We talk. Not much.
It appears maybe he didn't get along all that well with the 2 girls.
Puchiko:
--- Quote from: knocker on February 09, 2019, 01:54:33 PM ---
Today I wore Yuri's mittens, but how I did not want to! I was told that is not good not to accept them, so I took them. We talk. Not much.
It appears maybe he didn't get along all that well with the 2 girls.
--- End quote ---
I think that's Yuri Doroshenko, who she had previously dated. She had even introduced him to her parents, but they broke up before the Dyatlov expedition. Zina’s friend Valentina Tokareva shared a letter Zina wrote to her on the day of the expedition.
"My dearest Valya, here we are on our way to the expedition. Do you want a surprise? Yuri Doroshenko is coming with us. I really don’t know how I’ll feel. I relate to him like anyone else, but it’s really hard, because we are together and yet we’re not together." That's what the mittens were about. Nobody wants their ex's mittens!
knocker:
--- Quote from: Puchiko on February 09, 2019, 01:47:00 PM ---None of the murder theories work.
The attacker(s) would have to be powerful enough to force all nine out of the tent, but wouldn't prevent Zolotaryov from carrying a camera. Remember, these were nine young and physically strong people. Yuri and an old man wouldn't have been strong enough to overpower them. After forcing them out of the tent, they'd let them walk a mile, build a fire and the den (if it was a den). Why?
Then meet up with them at the ravine and finish them off with superhuman internal injuries but no soft tissue damage. Leave Zolotaryov's camera on his neck, not fearing it contained images of the attackers.
There's also no foreign footsteps at the scene, although I consider all of the evidence regarding the footsteps to be so poorly documented that I don't really take them into account. But the above is enough in my opinion.
--- End quote ---
I don't think they did have them all. There weren't enough people there to gather them all up and keep them in one place. Doroshenko and Krivonischenko got away and hid up the cedar tree and stayed there until the coast was clear. They were there probably a long time, half frozen to death by the time the killer(s) left and they felt it was safe to start a fire. You can't assume the fire was started immediately. In fact it would be foolish to. If they could get that fire started early, they wouldn't have frozen to death. They got it going too late to do any good. One of my brother's friends ditched a single engine plane into lake Erie in December back in the 90's. He was an hour and a half sitting soaking wet on the wing of the plane before the Coast Guard chopper came. By the time the coast guard found him, he couldn't move or talk, he was almost dead. It was a miracle he even lived. Eventually you get to the point where a small fire isn't going to save you. That's where Doroshenko and Krivonischenko were.
The rest got marched to the river. At some point Dyatlov and Kolmogorova fought their way out and escaped. Again, with not enough people to hold the rest captive and chase after the fugitives, they got away. They ran off into the night and built the crude dugout shelter and stayed there. Probably like Doroshenko and Krivonischenko who were up the tree, they were there maybe several hours, while the rest of the group was tortured and killed. By the time they felt it was safe to try to get back to the tent, they were half dead too. They stopped at the tree and found Doroshenko and Krivonischenko dead, took some of their clothes, but never made it much further. The mistake is in believing it all happened at once in the span of a couple of minutes.
As to the footprints. Get a friend, take off your boots and walk through the snow in your socks. The second person will always walk in the first persons footprints. It's human nature to do that. To say that there was 8 sets of footprints means there was 8 people is a stretch of logic when they're all in essentially socks or glorified socks. Even at gunpoint and told to keep spread out. Some of them would have been walking in other people's footprints. Meaning there was more than 8 people. If they weren't at gunpoint, there would have been one set of footprints. But like you say, you can't read too much into that. Soviet investigators were famous for just rounding up suspects and beating a few of them into confessing, not good solid police work. Competent forensic investigation wasn't something they were good at.
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