Theories Discussion > Infra-sound / Gravity fluctuation / Teleportation
Infrasound? Most unlikely.
WAB:
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---
--- Quote from: WAB on April 08, 2018, 02:02:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---The only possible reason why they still just did that, is that the nine members of the group faced a very tangible and real physical threat of the highest order.
--- End quote ---
The physical phenomenon - infrasound and its influence - also is " very tangible " (c) and “ physical threat of the highest order ” (c)
--- End quote ---
Infrasound is not a physical threat of the highest order.
--- End quote ---
Why?
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---It may influence people's mental state.
--- End quote ---
I also confirmed it. And it is enough of it to start all chain of events
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---But to hypothesize that it can make nine people out of nine flee their tent and into the Siberian winter night and not return to the tent is quite a stretch.
--- End quote ---
Why # 2? It is one should be required substantiation why it is impossible.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---Infrasound couid not be the reason why all nine perished. It is simply impossible.
--- End quote ---
If tell that the infrasound has killed 9 persons it cannot really cause.
It only promoted that people would escape from tent. All the rest were made by the nature in the form of a frost. And as traumas and stress get after escape from tent. They have escaped in such clothes which was insufficiently for this purpose that they could survive.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---Observations by meteorology at the time disproves the theory that the wind was strong enough as to create any such effect.
--- End quote ---
Why you so have solved? Whence you took the data on supervision by meteorology?
Under my data all that was necessary also it was necessary force.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---More importantly, the injuries suffered by the Dyatlov group members point unmistakably to all of them being murdered by humans attacking them.
--- End quote ---
It has no substantiation. I will tell about it in following paragraphs.
On the basis of what you do such decision? What signs can specify in that have killed them?
In records coroner that traumas concern to acquire on a place of their movement is accurately described only. I well know details of a place of all events, what so confirm. Besides, I prosecuted subjects of biomechanics of shock influences what accurately know about that they such signs.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---Only Igor Dyatlov would seem to have truly died from hypothermia, all the others showed various degrees of injuries that can only have resulted from an attack.
--- End quote ---
Please list those signs as which you consider concerning an attack? About whom I will not tell in the following phrase.
Deadly traumas were only at Nikolas Thibeaux-Brignolles and Lyudmila Dubinina. Simeon Zolotaryov's traumas have led to death from freezing complicated by that it could not render the fast and qualified aids. The trauma of Rustem Slobodin has resulted it with gradual freezing. Because it could not move from that place where it was trauma. And nearby there was nobody from its his friends.
On a place of events I and my friend have precisely enough established all places where bodies have been found. Near to each of them there are conditions of develop of those traumas which at them described coroner. Except a place where the trauma was develop by Nikolas Thibeaux-Brignolles. But it can be caused that place where the lantern thrown on a slope has been found out. There too it is a lot of conditions in which he could develop such trauma.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---The members of the Dyatlov group became the victims of a very intelligent attack, where they all were lined up after they were forced out from the tent - and then they moved away from the tent in a way that strongly suggested that they were forced to walk.
--- End quote ---
This incorrect representation about their behaviour and arrangement on place.
Here the map by scale which designates their position on a slope. It is made as a result of careful scrutiny of documents by searches and reconnoitring of this districts.
Traumas do not contain any signs of that they were put by extraneous people or participants of Dyatlov team. There is article (in Russian) where all traumas are in detail considered from a biomechanics position .
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---They were not fleeing in panic from the tent, the tracks clearly show that.
--- End quote ---
To which signs it can be defined?
Traces have been found out by small sites, on a distance of one group from another. On them it is possible to define only direction and quantity of people which have left them a method of superpositions. That is on the sum of separate signs.
Besides, it is impossible to define that people yet did NOT make, that they have already made is possible only. It is impossible to understand that is not present. That is available Is possible only.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---Still, even if there was no panic only one had boots on and none of the victims had proper winter gloves. If they had fled in a confused mental state with panic and disorder, the tracks would have shown that.
--- End quote ---
Than traces which leave at "panic" (I differ has defined it as a stressful condition when they did not understand, what they make or ASС) from what people will leave at the realising actions? It cannot be distinguished. Traces do not possess speech or reason which can deliver the information. And outwardly they look absolutely equally.
Absence of the necessary clothes which is necessary in such situation and as that for this purpose that her would be required to take absolutely small time, just and says that their actions were not realised. Even if the name "panic" here is use not correct. Matter is not in the name, and to do the action.
General direction for all and concentration of traces it was defined by a bias downwards and a wind direction. They went to a wind direction downhill.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---All available evidence strongly suggests that the attackers mercilessly calculated that forcing the nine people out in the winter without proper protection of hands and feet would lead to their death, and so they made sure that their hands and feet were unprotected.
--- End quote ---
You mean which proofs? Whence they are given? Please list them and particularly specify that to that should correspond?
And as it is interesting to me to learn: how and possessing what skills there extraneous people could get? Especially considering that they should approach to tent at the night-time and at very bad weather. How they carried out logistics and orientation in those conditions and why nobody has noticed them in settlements? Considering that these settlements are located far from this place and it is not enough of them. Literally is one or two.
In sparsely populated district any extraneous person is swept well up. Group of people mast be noticeable especially.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---However, according to the weather reports at the time, the temperature this night in the relevant area was no colder than -18-25C, and so the Dyatlov group members did not die as soon as expected.
--- End quote ---
At such temperature which was and in those clothes in which have found participants of Dyatlov team person can live approximately 5 … 8 hours. Provided that it forces itself to move constantly, compensating thermal losses from a frost. Level of these losses corresponds approximately 350 … 500 Vt and more. Especially it concerns the person who is blown by a wind. At those speeds of winds that are characteristic for that district, level of losses can increase approximately to 3 … 5 times. Windless weather in woodless areas of Northern Ural Mountains practically does not happen. Average speed of a wind, characteristic for such conditions which were for Dyatlov team in the night February, 01 to 02nd, 1959 should would be about 10 … 15 m/s (20 to 30 knots).
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---The attackers must have followed them after some time - in order to make sure that they perished. Significantly, the last four who died were those who were relatively better dressed and who also suffered the worst injuries. Their attackers must have judged that these four would be able to survive for several days and perhaps even could escape, so they decided to kill them with strong force.
--- End quote ---
These are what that fantastic conditions of murder. They too difficult and irrational. And then, what for so artistic performance to display all on all slope? It what them is easier and faster was to find?
Why murderers so long and ineptly addressed with people? They should drive all somewhere in a hole and to dig during snow that them could find only when all snow would thaw.
They not murderers and whom that silly persons who would want that them have found faster and have punished … Leave such quantity of proofs after themselves full idiots could only.
And then, where and how they have disappeared? Have evaporated without traces? And their traces have evaporated too?
No, that version contain of murderers turns out the extremely insolvent.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---Rustem Slobodin is thought to have been killed first, and this is also as expected. He was very athletic, and would have tried to resist. But his skull was crushed, and he was left unconscious in the snow and died after some time. It is not possible that the damage to his head could have been caused by him falling to the ground.
--- End quote ---
This incorrect statement. At all points.
1.Rustem was trauma and died absolutely alone. Otherwise who that of companions has at least tried to assist it aid.
2.The Place where it have found is in several metres from that place where it easily could receive head injuries having fallen in the dark here with such snow eaves:
There difference more than 2,5 m ( 8.5 ft at level of feet) + its growth is equal 1метр 72 sm (5 ft 7 in ), all about 4 m (13 ft). It is quite enough of it that would will receive a head injury with a crack a skull. In such condition the person faints also coordination of movements. It is not capable to leave of the big distance. For this reason it also have found in several metres ( or yd) from it snow eaves.
3.The Similar trauma does not give possibility to survive in the conditions of cold is not dependent on any sports, or any other qualities.
On these 2 pictures you can visible the place about which looks have find out Rustem Slobodin in the winter 1959.
[/url
Height of a ski stick is 140 sm (4.5 ft). The general difference on snow eaves about 2,5 m (8 ft). If it add Rustem Slobodin stature of 172 sm (~5 ft 7 in), it is enough of it for this purpose what to develop such trauma which it had. I remind, hi moved in this place in a night-time.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---Neither infrasound nor any other atmospheric phenomena can fight with people, such phenomena cannot break skulls, necks and rib cages.
--- End quote ---
Both these of the factor need to be considered separately. Infrasound only has provided conditions to escape from tent, and all the rest already result of other events which do not concern to infrasound. It is not necessary to conform to all to same. It is not true.
Traumas grow out of actions of people in the bad conditions weather defined by a cold, a wind, darkness, a stressful condition, a lay of land, impossibility to pass further in wood where there is a wood for a fire, or to return to tent behind to the necessary things.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---There is no possibility that the injuries documented could be caused by falls, because the ravine was not deep enough or sufficiently precipitous and the injuries would not show such a pattern as was found on the bodies.
--- End quote ---
It too the incorrect statement. The slope where traumas of a thorax at Ludy and Simeon have been height, has difference height approximately 7 … 8 metres (22 or 26 ft), and a steepness about 40 degrees. More than it is enough of it what to develop such, or more serious traumas.
On this image the slope from below is visible. On the top of a slope there is Yury Yudin. His height is 177 sm (~5 ft 9 in)
In 1959 this slope was without trees and the big bushes.
It is necessary well and in details to know place where there were all actions of this incident. I would like to ask a question: why “ would not show such a pattern as was found on the bodies.”©? As well as to what signs you define it?
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---It is extremely suspicious that some investigators even mentioned a fall as a possible cause, and it is clear that the Soviet authorities did not want the investigators to draw the only sensible conclusion that this tragedy was a case of a cold blooded murder with planned intent to kill all nine hikers.
--- End quote ---
Before whom in what that to accuse, it is necessary to establish authentically the fact of what it was murder? Such signs by detailed consideration of a problem it is not found out. Imagination limits does not exist, therefore people are inclined to treat what they do not know in what kind that of deliberate actions of criminal character. If to understand on the substance or is professional, it turns out more and more simply and usually, as always in life. Any solution is more usual, than it is drawn by antiscientific fiction writers.
In this incident it is necessary to itself to ask a question: that you want to make - either to find true, or to write the fantastic story on a theme - as I would like that it would look. Imaginations always much more difficult also are more unreal than happens in the nature. But it is more interesting to the reader. It is necessary to choose for itself that is necessary: truth or interest of the reader?
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---The severe damage to the rib cage of two of the victims is particularly indicative of a murderous attack. It is probable that the damage was done with elbow strikes to both sides of the rib cage, a technique which is well known from close combat techniques.
--- End quote ---
It is completely excluded from the point of view of the description and mechanics of reception of traumas. It is result of influence with “a plane of the unlimited size” - as speak in medicine (in traumatology). Elbows and other elements of participants of "near fight” have rather limited area and cannot cause such traumas.
The hand has width (diameter) approximately in 8. 10 sm (maximum) conform to 3 or 4 inch and what to be trauma thorax characteristic for Simeon (and furthermore Lyudmila) is necessary to have a plane (!) in the size more the thorax, that is more than 40 … 45 sm (15 to 17 in) Differently will be only a thin breach in width hardly less than this diameter. Thus, what to develop such force in the conditions of winter and those clothes which were on them (and after all and "attacking" too “were not naked”), it was unreal. The force should be not less than one ton of force on each thorax. Besides, in that case, breast bones that is not present in the description necessarily would suffer.
At both of them (at Luda and Simeon) break lines are on distance more than 45 sm (17 in) and out of a tangent line of a plane of a breast. That is characteristic for flat blow of the big area of the contact causing destruction of bones of edges in points of the greatest pressure which settle down already behind a line of the least bend of edges.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---No superhuman strength and no bomb blast is required to crush a person's rib cage.
--- End quote ---
About a blast wave I will not speak, yet there will be clearly whence it in general there it could appear … And at falling by rolling from a slope in height of 8 metres (26 ft) and a steepness 40 degree, and the subsequent sharp stop, thorax traumas turn out very easily. And the big plane it is a bottom part of a ravine.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on April 09, 2018, 04:52:23 AM ---The Dyatlov group was murdered. The great mystery lies in why it was done and who did it. That question can only be answered if and when some of those who know tell the truth of what happened.
--- End quote ---
In general it is impossible to answer imaginations seriously. There are no all real signs of murder: the motive, possibility to find tent at night, absence of the information where and when it should be with the accuracy, necessary that in general would be possible to find it, weather conditions for such search, absolutely unsuccessful and unreliable way of murder, set of the artefacts left for show, impossible logistics to arrive into place and total absence of traces of stay on a place (and on approaches) extraneous people … will leave back,
It is possible to continue this list still for a long time.
Murder not the version, and it is the scenario for a detective horror film … Only so it also should be considered it.
SteveCalley:
100% Nikolai Thibeaux died with a basilar displaced skull fracture from hitting head on rock peak. Such damage is not easily explained otherwise. A 3m fall onto rock is very considerable cause.
INDUBITABLY
clap1
SteveCalley:
I cannot deny, Perfect!!
Loose}{Cannon:
Physics!
Not my thing. But tell me, how much force is applied when say 180 pounds traveling at running speed falls say 4 meters?
SteveCalley:
--- Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 19, 2018, 06:58:38 PM ---Not my thing. But tell me, how much force is applied when say 180 pounds traveling at running speed falls say 4 meters?
--- End quote ---
The fall takes about 900ms and downward velocity ~ 9 m/s. C'est la vie
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version