September 19, 2021, 04:02:32 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Hypothermia  (Read 957 times)

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August 21, 2020, 04:24:19 AM
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micke


I also think that hypothermia is the most likely hypothesis. Except from the indications mentioned in this forum there there are some indications that they had symptoms days before. They didn´t have energy to write much in their diary´s the last days. The first symptoms are fatigue and disorientation, but it is still possible to keep on for at least a day or two before severe symptoms appear. “The Labbaz” was on the ground, very primitive, and could easily be reach bye any mammals or birds.  They started late and stopped on the ridge, very exposed to wind. They didn´t use the stove.
However, there are some peculiar things with this disaster. They were experienced and had done winter hikes before. I can´t find any snow shovels among the items that was registered afterwards? On the picture they seem to have at least one, it should have been more than one, but none were found.  No sleeping bags was recorded. No isolating sheets to protect them from the cold underground. Only 9 blankets were described and two of them were spread out in the tent. It sounds very cold to me especially when they probably were sweaty due to the climb and you easily start freezing if you don´t change cloths and keep you warm.  Every item was laid out in the tent in very good and controlled order with four sections for different items. They would have at this time have severe symptoms of hypothermia and you would expect disorder in the tent. Hopefully I have not missed some facts and I would appreciate comments. Especially if it was not common to use sleeping bags on a winter tour in 1959? 

August 21, 2020, 09:32:27 AM
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Nigel Evans


Hi there. Hypothermia is probably the least likely explanation. Three possibly four people including Alexander died from extensive crushing (or impacts depending on your view), Rustem died on an ice bed (rules out hypothermia?), YuriK third degree burns and a scalpel wound across the whole of the back of his hand, Zina a bad gash on her hand, a large bleeding bruise on her waist and found with her "face in blood" either from extensive facial "abrasions" or vomiting blood, Igor and YuriK similar marks across the two bodies, Igor - lips covered in encrusted blood probably from vomiting blood.

August 21, 2020, 09:41:55 AM
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Squatch


... They started late and stopped on the ridge, very exposed to wind. They didn´t use the stove. ...

I think these two things are very revealing.

It seems to indicate that they didn't want to take the easy way out at this time on their hiking expedition. They could have camped lower where there was less of a wind/storm problem, and the stove would have been a comfort on the exposed side of Kholat Syakhl.

But, no, they didn't do that. However, it makes sense if they wanted to do this for the "credit" of having done so. At the end of their trip, this would have been another notch in their belt as experienced hikers, and would earn them an expert hiker status.

Could this explain the camera found on the body of Semyon Zolotaryov? Was he keeping it handy to document the difficult parts of the trip? Could the purported pen and notepad he had be part of that as well?

I think the hikers, although very skilled, didn't understand the natural dangers present on the mountain they camped on.

August 21, 2020, 10:25:47 AM
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Nigel Evans


... They started late and stopped on the ridge, very exposed to wind. They didn´t use the stove. ...

I think these two things are very revealing.

It seems to indicate that they didn't want to take the easy way out at this time on their hiking expedition. They could have camped lower where there was less of a wind/storm problem, and the stove would have been a comfort on the exposed side of Kholat Syakhl.

But, no, they didn't do that. However, it makes sense if they wanted to do this for the "credit" of having done so. At the end of their trip, this would have been another notch in their belt as experienced hikers, and would earn them an expert hiker status.

Could this explain the camera found on the body of Semyon Zolotaryov? Was he keeping it handy to document the difficult parts of the trip? Could the purported pen and notepad he had be part of that as well?

I think the hikers, although very skilled, didn't understand the natural dangers present on the mountain they camped on.
Imo the best explanation for the change of route is that they were poorly equipped for traversing ice and snow (only one ice axe = Semyon's? and no crampons) and had tried and failed the previous day to go through the pass. So they fell back that evening and formed a new plan to move the route higher (on which Igor records his doubts in the diary). They realised that if they were having problems getting through the pass then ascending Mt Ortorten from the treeline would be impossible so they needed to shed unnecessary weight (labaaz) and "get up there and stay up there" following ridges etc. This would save time compared to battling through the forest and crossing ravines/gulleys etc of which there are several on the route.
It was a good plan. An alternative component of the theory is that they were also seeing lights on Kholat and wanted to investigate/photograph them. Hence, a camera on a tripod and "night exposures" from several cameras.

September 23, 2020, 10:50:22 PM
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beanie07


It is often said the 2 yuri's died 1st from hypothermia, becos they were found least dressed.
However,  many missed out the fact that when found, some of their clothes were already scavenged by others.

Comparing the amount of clothing on 2 yuri's  vs dyatlov's (https://dyatlovpass.com/injuries?lid=1)..
You see dyatlov is only slightly a vest, pullover and pants more than yuriK... (and it was suggested the shirt on Dyatlov belonged to yuriD?)

Thus could we think
1. at the start (when all departed the tent), the 2 yuri's were actually having the same amount of clothing as when Dyatlov died?
2. if so, why would they die 1st from cold.. when Dyatlov can last longer with the same amount of clothing?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 11:04:30 PM by beanie07 »

October 03, 2020, 07:37:41 PM
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Investigator


I just posted about hypothermia in the Deadly Cold Theory forum, and of course they all died directly of hypothermia, though Luda, at least, apparently would have died from the injuries sustained after falling into the ravine.  In that post, I made the point that hypothermia deaths are quite strange, as some die quickly and some go for days in bad weather, also without being dresseed properly.  You can read a bunch of these stories in the book, "Off the Wall: Death in Yosemite," but there are plenty of other interesting accounts, for example, that mountain climbers have written.  The DP group (or Igor) seems to have been more concerned with securing the tent (from blowing apart or the contents blowing all over the mountainside) than they were of hypothermia, and in just the "Off the Wall" book alone, you can read about a whole bunch of horrible decisions made under similar circumstances (this is also true for most of  the major disasters on Everest).  In the case of the DPI, they wanted Level 3 certification and Igor may have been sort of teaching the group a lesson because he didn't think they were sewing the two tents together properly (read the diaries).  Because the two tents were literally coming apart at the seams during much better weather conditions and with the stove being used, the only reasonable conclusion, IMO, was that this was the crucial mistake, but they still may have been able to survive the night, for instance if they improvised a shelter from the wind (perhaps with a simple wall of snow), using branches to sit or lie on and the blankets for a makeshift tent.  However, I have seen on video how the wind comes down the top of that mountain, and it may have been difficult to find any such location that was close enough (a reconstruction might demonstrate this, one way or the other).  As to the two Yuris dying first, there are reasons for this, one being that some people have a significant drop in their core body temperature when they stop being physically active, which can lead to hypothermia setting in very quickly.  Also, if you sweat your clothes up or if there is snow on them, then you sit in front of a fire, that melts the snow and soaks the clothes, and then the fire goes out, you are in big trouble.  Even if it's a robust fire, though, if the wind is still beating down on you, the fire may do little to prevent hypothermia.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 01:05:09 PM by Investigator »