August 17, 2022, 09:59:19 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: This Is What I Think Happened  (Read 5115 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

October 30, 2019, 05:44:58 PM
Read 5115 times
Offline

BMOORE4020


Here is what I think happened:
TIME CONSTRAINT
The leader agreed to send a telegram to his sports club no later than the 12th of February. 
This put a time pressure element to the expedition.
UNEXPECTED DELAY
During the trek, the plan was to go through the pass and camp on the other side. They apparently got lost and deviated west. Close to the top of Kholat Syakhl.
To go down in elevation 1.5 km to the tree line would be a drain on the schedule. The leader decides to stay put to save time.
LEADER CHOOSES RISKY CAMP SITE TO OFFSET DELAY
Fully exposed to elements on the side of a mountain.
Look at the pictures where they made camp. Totally desolate.
No fuel for the stove.
Fully exposed to the elements.
No structures to break the windy conditions.
I checked the moon phase on the 2nd of February. They were just days away from a new moon. So illumination from moon light would have been very low.
TEAM DIGS TRENCH AS A WIND BREAKER
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-12.jpg
They are digging a trench. At the moment the photograph was taken, it appears they are waist deep. Also note that the famous tool stuck in the snow that others say offers proof that an avalanche did not occur. The tool is stuck in snow past the perimeter of the trench that was dug.
The trench creates a breech in the snow.
Physics begins to work as pressure builds

CONDITIONS THAT NIGHT

Complete darkness. Imagine sleeping in a tent in a room with no windows.
Again, I don’t think it’s been stressed enough how the lack of illumination played a role in this tragedy.
Snowfall.
Wind.

PANIC
The team is sound asleep in a tent that is pitched in a pit.
Snow gives way, covering the tent. Partially collapsing it.
Tent collapses.
Team wake up in a stir with the feeling of being suffocated.
Team member takes out knife and randomly cuts tent open to escape.
First, cuts are made in the top. Now they can breathe.
Second, a large cut is made in the side to escape.  No one is thinking of taking any belongings. They are fighting for their lives.
SAFE AT LAST
All team members are out of the tent. Calling out to each other in the darkness.
One flashlight is lost in the darkness due to confusion. Perhaps it lands on the snow that fell which explains how it ended up on top of a pile of snow. Whatever snow fell on top simply blew off from wind.
The other flashlight is barely working. Remember, it is found abandon half way down the mountain. With only possibly 10 minutes of juice left, it couldn’t have offered much help illuminating the camp site.
Due to conditions, darkness, wind and snow.  It is impossible to assess the situation. Has their current location become unstable? Was there an avalanche? Will there be another episode if they attempt to enter the tent again?  Total confusion.
The leader realizes they cannot light a fire in current conditions.
The tent is not habitable. If you look at the photos, it’s basically useless as a form of shelter.
The leader realizes that they have approximately 30 minutes to find shelter or light a fire before death. No fire is possible at the camp site with no fuel and high wind.  There is simply not enough time to recover additional supplies. They are in a race for their lives.
Perhaps additional snow is falling on the tent intermittently. It is deemed too risky to enter the tent. Its complete darkness and they need whatever power that is still left in the flash light for the trek down.
THEY BEGIN THE TREK DOWN
Of course they do not run! It’s the side of a mountain. Cobble stones and crevasses could exist under the snow. They have no source of illumination. They must take their time even though time is of the essence. They gingerly go the only direction they can perceive in total darkness. Down. Down the mountain to where fuel is waiting. It is too treacherous to run. Even in such alarming conditions.
THEY FIND A SOURCE OF FUEL
The lone cedar tree is the first source of fuel they find.
They immediately build a fire.
THEY START TO PLAN
They must wait for sunup so they can see.
The better dressed of the team will go deeper into the forest and build a more suitable shelter. To survive until the search party arrives or they are able to repair the ten.
The poorly dressed will wait by the fire.
THE DEN BUILDING PARTY DEPART
Agree to be back at a predetermined time.
THE DEN BUILDING PARTY ARE KILLED
Unfamiliar with the terrain, they attempt to cross over a snow dome that actually covers a ravine that is 20 feet deep. The weight of the team causes the dome to collapse. Killing them all instantly.
THE DEN BUILDING PARTY NEVER RETURNS TO THE FIRE
Hours later, it becomes apparent that the den building party is not returning.  The only chance the others have is to return to the tent during daylight and recover the tent and supplies. Those that are too weak or dead are left behind.
THE RETURNING PARTY ALL DIE OF HYPOTHERMIA
The conditions are too much. The three that make the attempt slowly fade away.

This seems a reasonable explanation to me.












« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 06:20:19 PM by BMOORE4020 »
 

October 31, 2019, 05:46:49 AM
Reply #1
Offline

Noelle


Hello,
thank you for your detailed and really interesting opinion on the story!
However, I have sincere doubts that this could be an explanation. To start from the beginning- some terrifying situation that forced the group to leave the tent side- I sincerely doubt that the group had been asleep when the „event“ occured.
I strongly believe that the „threatening  event“, however you may call it, occurred only a short time after they settled down for the night. They did not have eaten dinner yet, according to the autopsy their last meals where about 8 hours ago. Presuming that they couldn‘t have lived much longer than 2-3 hours in the cold night, that fits perfectly into the time range of that day. Their last hike wasn‘t very long, they got up late and only started around noon for a short hike of 2-3 miles=hours, before they set up the tent for the night. That makes it likely that their last meal was a late breakfast before they went off.
Your story suggests that all nine of them were sound asleep when something happened. Why would they go down to sleep without dinner, without their usual routine of writing their diaries, etc.?
Apart from that, I don‘t believe that there was any panic inside the tent. All items were placed neatly, their clothes on a neat pile, a can of cocoa found upright, etc. Imagine 9 people escaped the tent in a hurry or panic, wouldn‘t there be a mess?
Also, there wasn‘t much snow covering the tent when the search group found it almost a month later.
 

October 31, 2019, 05:31:55 PM
Reply #2
Offline

Marchesk


THE DEN BUILDING PARTY DEPART
Agree to be back at a predetermined time.
THE DEN BUILDING PARTY ARE KILLED
Unfamiliar with the terrain, they attempt to cross over a snow dome that actually covers a ravine that is 20 feet deep. The weight of the team causes the dome to collapse. Killing them all instantly.
THE DEN BUILDING PARTY NEVER RETURNS TO THE FIRE
Hours later, it becomes apparent that the den building party is not returning.  The only chance the others have is to return to the tent during daylight and recover the tent and supplies. Those that are too weak or dead are left behind.
THE RETURNING PARTY ALL DIE OF HYPOTHERMIA
The conditions are too much. The three that make the attempt slowly fade away.

There are some issues with this part. First, clothing from the two Yuris around the fire were removed and used by the Ravine 4. So they couldn't have all perished from a snow dome collapse prior to the deaths of Yuri Doroshenko and Krivonischenko.

Secondly, the floor matting for the snow den and the bodies were found within 70 meters of the cedar tree, which was close enough to yell back and forth, and certainly walk over the course of a couple hours.

Third, it doesn't make sense for the fire to be so small if Igor, Zina and Rustem were helping out with it.

And finally, if the decision was made that the their clothing in the tent couldn't be retrieved in the dark after they exited, then why would they try and return up the mountain exposed to the wind and cold hours later to the same situation? That's suicide.

I've never been able to make sense of the hikers ending up in three different locations the way they did. It's odd. But your explanation is reasonable overall. I would say it has some plausibility. Unfortunately, so do about a dozen other theories.

What a maddening case this is.
 

November 01, 2019, 12:41:45 AM
Reply #3
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
As with many things in life - the devil is in the detail.  The front of the tent is still standing.  That would mean that it is unlikely that there was any significant snow slide.  But it is possible that a smaller more localised snow slip may have occurred where they had dug out the snow for the tent thus removing some of the support for the snow a little further up.  Even so I think it is unlikely.  The group would realise what was happening and if the conditions were stable I can’t imagine why they would not try to recover some warm clothing and their boots.  The boots were near the still standing entrance and it appears that Rustem did manage to put on one of his boots.  So I think that whatever it was the hikers felt that their lives were in danger and that they had to leave immediately. 

Regards

Star man
 

November 01, 2019, 08:49:48 AM
Reply #4
Offline

Marchesk


Something else occurred to me. If the hikers did cut the tent so as to have all of them leave, then why did one of the initial two search party members need to take an ice hack and hack open the tent?
 

November 01, 2019, 09:30:55 AM
Reply #5
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Personally I don’t think the cuts were made as a means of escape.  They are close to the still standing entrance themselves.  I think the cuts were made for some other reason.

Regards

Star man
 

November 01, 2019, 07:09:06 PM
Reply #6
Offline

BMOORE4020


Thanks for the feedback.

Noelle
For me, this decision to setup camp in such an unforgiving environment meant the team was willing to make a sacrifice for a successful expedition. 
This must have been extraordinary in some way to them.  They felt the need to document the moment with a photograph. They realized they would have to go a night without any heat at all. Perhaps they even decided to go without supper since no heat would be available anyway. Probably  not in  a mood to write in diaries on this night.  They must have been miserable with no heat.

Marchesk

There are some issues with this part. First, clothing from the two Yuris around the fire were removed and used by the Ravine 4. So they couldn't have all perished from a snow dome collapse prior to the deaths of Yuri Doroshenko and Krivonischenko.
They could very well have passed away during the night. Before the 4 went on the mission to build a den when the sun came up.

Secondly, the floor matting for the snow den and the bodies were found within 70 meters of the cedar tree, which was close enough to yell back and forth, and certainly walk over the course of a couple hours.
That still doesn't mean that contact was lost at some point and the the Ravine 4 were assumed dead after a certain amount of time.

Third, it doesn't make sense for the fire to be so small if Igor, Zina and Rustem were helping out with it.
I have not read the estimates of the size of the fire. Only that there were a  question why they allowed it to go out.

And finally, if the decision was made that the their clothing in the tent couldn't be retrieved in the dark after they exited, then why would they try and return up the mountain exposed to the wind and cold hours later to the same situation? That's suicide.
It was daylight. They realized that the Ravine 4 were not coming back to help them. They had no choice. It was a last ditch effort to save themselves.

Star man

As with many things in life - the devil is in the detail.  The front of the tent is still standing.  That would mean that it is unlikely that there was any significant snow slide.
Agreed. I never said that there was this massive snow slide that cause unbelievable devastation. Only that their action of digging the trench caused enough instability where enough snow fell on the tent to cause a partial collapse. It is the perception of this instability that caused the panic. I don't think they were ever in really danger. But when its pitch black outside, I think your imagination could run away with you.

But it is possible that a smaller more localised snow slip may have occurred where they had dug out the snow for the tent thus removing some of the support for the snow a little further up.
Agreed. The key word you use is localized. I think thats why the tool is still standing and why one of the support poles for the tent didn't collapse. A very concentrated , localized shift in the snow fell on the tent. 

Even so I think it is unlikely. 

Seems reasonable to me judging from the picture where they are diffing the trench. At that moment they are waist deep.

The group would realise what was happening and if the conditions were stable I can’t imagine why they would not try to recover some warm clothing and their boots.  The boots were near the still standing entrance and it appears that Rustem did manage to put on one of his boots.  So I think that whatever it was the hikers felt that their lives were in danger and that they had to leave immediately.

This is a good point. But once you take into account there is no illumination. Its not so easy to just go into the tent and collect supplies. You really can't asses your surroundings at this point. I think they realized that if they even spent 10 minutes trying to collect supplies, they wouldn't make it. With the wind, it would be impossible to light a fire, even if they had fuel. The tent was totally destroyed. They probably thought, if we can just build a fire and wait for daylight, we can come back for the rest. As far as some having one shoe. In the darkness of the tent, they fumble around and find one, but the other has shifted out of reach with all the shifting around in a panic to get out.
 

November 02, 2019, 07:46:18 AM
Reply #7
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
In terms of the darkness - they did have two flash lights available to them so I don’t think visibility would be an issue to retrieve the clothes and shoes.

Regards
Star man
 

November 02, 2019, 08:44:36 AM
Reply #8
Offline

Marchesk


They could very well have passed away during the night. Before the 4 went on the mission to build a den when the sun came up.

But why would the two Yuris have passed away with the other seven hikers around to help with the fire and share clothing?

Quote from: BMOORE4020
That still doesn't mean that contact was lost at some point and the the Ravine 4 were assumed dead after a certain amount of time.

It would have been easy to check with it only being 70 meters away.

Quote from: BMOORE4020
I have not read the estimates of the size of the fire. Only that there were a  question why they allowed it to go out.

It was estimated to have burnt from an hour to two hours. And why would it go out if you have Zina, Igor and Rustem around to help?
 
Quote from: BMOORE4020
It was daylight. They realized that the Ravine 4 were not coming back to help them. They had no choice. It was a last ditch effort to save themselves.

What makes you think it was daylight? That would have meant the three of them survived for ten hours or more before heading back. Which means a lot of time with no fire burning for some reason.
 

November 04, 2019, 10:33:52 PM
Reply #9
Offline

Monika


Hello,
thank you for your detailed and really interesting opinion on the story!
However, I have sincere doubts that this could be an explanation. To start from the beginning- some terrifying situation that forced the group to leave the tent side- I sincerely doubt that the group had been asleep when the „event“ occured.
I strongly believe that the „threatening  event“, however you may call it, occurred only a short time after they settled down for the night. They did not have eaten dinner yet, according to the autopsy their last meals where about 8 hours ago. Presuming that they couldn‘t have lived much longer than 2-3 hours in the cold night, that fits perfectly into the time range of that day. Their last hike wasn‘t very long, they got up late and only started around noon for a short hike of 2-3 miles=hours, before they set up the tent for the night. That makes it likely that their last meal was a late breakfast before they went off.
Your story suggests that all nine of them were sound asleep when something happened. Why would they go down to sleep without dinner, without their usual routine of writing their diaries, etc.?
Apart from that, I don‘t believe that there was any panic inside the tent. All items were placed neatly, their clothes on a neat pile, a can of cocoa found upright, etc. Imagine 9 people escaped the tent in a hurry or panic, wouldn‘t there be a mess?
Also, there wasn‘t much snow covering the tent when the search group found it almost a month later.

You are right - their last meals where about 8 hours ago but we dont know if the meal was their dinner or late breakfast.
I am also start to believe that the event may have occurred before dinner. This corresponds to the fact that
1. they had no stoves on, but the piece of wood was ready
2. why there was no entry in the diary, each day before they someting wrote there
 

November 05, 2019, 12:24:10 AM
Reply #10
Offline

Marchesk


You are right - their last meals where about 8 hours ago but we dont know if the meal was their dinner or late breakfast.
I am also start to believe that the event may have occurred before dinner. This corresponds to the fact that
1. they had no stoves on, but the piece of wood was ready
2. why there was no entry in the diary, each day before they someting wrote there

Problem is that if their last meal was around noon, then they would have had to die around 8 or 9 that night. I don't think that's enough time for Zina and Igor to die of hypothermia.
 

November 06, 2019, 12:33:00 PM
Reply #11
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Its a nice easy Theory. But it still fails to explain the fundamentals. Why would they contemplate travelling a mile or so without proper protection from the elements  !  ?  The protection that could save their lives  !  ?
DB
 

November 14, 2019, 06:30:10 PM
Reply #12
Offline

BMOORE4020


All I'm saying is that this offers the most reasonable explanation given the facts.
 Perhaps it would be useful to work backwards.

THE RETURNING PARTY ALL DIE OF HYPOTHERMIA
Why return to the tent if something unimaginably bad happened there? I think they chose to go back for two reasons:
  • It was now daylight and they could make a reasonable assessment of the danger.
  • A last ditch effort to survive after realizing all of the remaining party had perished.

THE DEN BUILDING PARTY NEVER RETURNS TO THE FIRE - THE DEN BUILDING PARTY ARE KILLED
I think it very likely that without adequate maps, the den party had no idea that the 20 foot ravine existed. After walking over the dome of snow that was created, the acceleration created falling 20 feet would be consistent with the injuries deemed "Equivalent to a car crash. Not possible by human conflict."

THEY FIND A SOURCE OF FUEL
Why stop at the lone ceder when there was a much more plentiful supply of fuel  only yards away? Why exert ones self climbing a tree to break branches off? They simply could not see. They had no form of illumination. It was completely dark. One flashlight was lost at camp, the other abandoned on the way down because it ran out of batteries. They found this tree by accident and took advantage of the opportunity immediately to build a fire because they had no idea of their surroundings.

THEY BEGIN THE TREK DOWN
I think its reasonable to assume that they didn't run because of the danger of twisting an ankle on a cobble stone or in a crevasse. They also threw away the flashlight here because it had become useless to them due to the batteries running down.

SAFE AT LAST
The narrative up to this point seems reasonable.
Now we get to the main point  of this mystery.
Why would the party leave camp?

All team members are out of the tent. Calling out to each other in the darkness. Why would you leave all of your supplies behind?

My theory hinges on the fact that it was pitch black that night.
Some evidence of this:
  • Why take one flashlight and leave the other outside the tent. They lost one of the flashlights in the darkness and confusion. There can be no other explanation. Why take one and not the other? They didn't run. It was lost in the darkness.
  • Some team members only had one shoe. I find this one of the most interesting pieces of information of this entire episode.
    There are really three permutations of what could have happened here. 1)The person slept with both shoes on. No one sleeps with their shoes on. In any case, I find it highly unlikely they would take one shoe off and run out of the tent. 2) They slept with one shoe on and one shoe off. I find this highly  unlikely as well. 3) They slept with both shoes off, with the shoes close by , next to their sleeping bag. The person wakes up, in a stir, seems to find the time to put on one shoe, why not spend the additional 20 seconds to put on the other? What good is having one shoe anyway if you invested the time, not to put on the other? I believe, relying only on touch, the person could not locate the other shoe because of the darkness.
     


PANIC
I think fear of being suffocated caused someone in the party to panic and totally destroy the tent using a knife.  There was not enough illumination to see anything. Not enough time to go on a scavenger hunt in the darkness  for supplies with less then 30 minutes to live without warmth. Too much wind to light  fire. No fuel to make a fire even if it was possible because of the decision to camp in a desolate location. I think, although its hard to imagine, when you are thrown into a subzero environment in complete darkness, in only your underwear. Your survival instincts kick in. From that point, they were on a mission to changes their conditions. They were on a mission to find fuel for a fire. If they hesitated for even a minute, the may not survive. They could  come back the next day for supplies once the danger was over.

TIME OF DEATH DUE TO FORENSIC EXAMINATION
This was 1949. Not exactly CSI. I would say these estimates of time of death are ballpark at best. They could be off by 8 hours or more.
 

December 26, 2019, 04:22:40 AM
Reply #13
Offline

Wonderer


Hi BMOORE4020 (and others)

I very much believe that your theory is plausible and the most likely one.

Looking at the pictures of them setting the tent up, it’s obvious there was a lot of snow on the ground. In addition it was probably snowing a lot, and also the wind was blowing snow around, most likely over the top of the mountain on to the downwind side where their tent was. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there was snow building up against and on top of the tent. Now combine that with the possible breakup of the snow shelf they made when pitching the tent, and I would say it’s quite likely the tent would have collapsed on top of them.

When found, the tent only had a small amount of snow on top of it, yet it was collapsed. Therefore we can presume that only a small amount was needed to make the tent collapse, or there was more snow at some point.

Now let’s assume this is what happened. Now the group is stuck under the snow and the tent canvas. It’s pitch black with a blizzard outside. It’s fair to assume that their first reaction is just to get out no matter what. So they cut holes in the tent to get out. They do not know what has happened, and think there has been an avalanche. Whether or not that was actually possible at the mountain is not relevant. What matters is that the group thought so. Remember, when they arrived at the camp site the visibility was very bad, so they most likely were not even aware that the hill was not so steep. They never had a good look at their surroundings! All they know is that they got struck with snow once, they fear it might happen again and think that the site is not safe. They are also dealing with the cold and the wind, and feel they must find an immediate shelter. The valley and forest were calm and quite a bit warmer when they were there, so they incorrectly assume conditions are better there.

They start their walk down the mountain, planning to return once the storm has calmed. They drop one flashlight halfway there as a marker to guide them back.

After they reach the cedar tree, the groups actions are quite rational to me. They successfully started a fire and constructed a den. I suspect they didn’t cut the branches of the cedar just for firewood, but also to get insulation from the ground. Remember that Doroshenko was laying on few branches from the tree.

Unfortunately the temperature had dropped quite a bit even in the valley, and the small fire they had was not enough to keep them warm. I also suspect that there was a fight at this point. Maybe they were blaming each other for the trouble they were in. Hence a few of them had bruised knuckles and scrapes in their faces.

At some point the two Yuris succumb to the cold and the others take parts of their clothing to keep themselves warm. Three of them realize they will not survive without clothes or other supplies from the tent and try to walk back. Unfortunately hypothermia had progressed too far and they never make it. The group constructing the den fall into the ravine and receive their lethal injuries that way.

I’d say this theory is certainly more believable that Yeti’s, UFO’s or military conspiracies.





« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 04:49:51 AM by Wonderer »
 

December 26, 2019, 09:09:49 AM
Reply #14
Offline

MDGross


Your theory is pretty much in agreement with mine. But instead of an avalanche, I like the idea of a gale-force wind that suddenly roared down the mountain slope and threatened to collapse or even blow the tent away (which was only secured by ropes tied to skis and ski poles). So they slash the tent in various places to try and relieve the wind pressure. This doesn't help so fearing they'll be completely exposed on the slope, they walk toward the forest. In such a ferocious wind, they have no choice but to walk in a straight line holding on to the person in front. Blowing ice cuts their faces and bruises their bodies. In pitch blackness and a blizzard of snow and ice, the most experienced hikers would be terrified. Six die of hypothermia, the other three fall onto rocks at the bottom of the ravine, perhaps knocked off their feet from snow slipping around them. In the weeks following the pressure from the snow covering them breaks even more bones, especially Lyuda.
 

December 26, 2019, 09:55:36 AM
Reply #15
Offline

jarrfan


I think this is a plausible theory but there may need to be some details explained. First, even if there were a gale force wind and snow, what reason would  the hikers have to cut the 3 holes in the tent? One answer might be to see how high the snow advanced to the top of the tent and their concern they might be buried. If they cut the holes for that reason, I don't think they would need 3, but only one. And going with the thought they might be buried, it would be reasonable for one hiker to suit up and evaluate the situation outside of the tent as to the danger. There was evidence someone went out to urinate, but not that anyone was evaluating the situation. They had to leave through the door exit, not the 3 small cuts because they were only small enough to peer through, and considering this, the door was not blocked and they were able to exit easily.

Secondly, the escape from an unraveling tent does not answer why they left without adequate protection including shoes. To go into a gale force wind and blizzard completely unprotected, whether they were thinking they would be safer at the forest area, makes no sense because as experienced as they were, they knew they would be walking into the face of death. If the flashlight was working as it appears it was, they could have taken a few minutes to find and put on their gear before leaving.

The other question is the cedar tree and why there was evidence of them climbing 9 feet to get brush for a den and firewood when it was readily available in the near area. There was flesh from their skin found on the cedar tree and broken or sawed limbs of the tree.

I believe it is possible there was a fight at the cedar tree with what their next move should be and  what decision should be made.

When the hikers were found, they were not buried deeply in snow but parts of their bodies were exposed. How could a blizzard snow leave them so exposed?


 

December 26, 2019, 02:54:54 PM
Reply #16
Offline

narvikk


If they would have a problem with the tent (snow, wind) I think they would never gone away without proper clothing. They were experienced and they had to know it could be extremely dangerous. Imagine: they had to be very tired after the day, all they wanted was to have a rest and sleep. It was a big group of experienced young smart people, even if one or two would panic there were enough people to calm it down.

It’s also a question if they had a knowledge about the terrain around, they came to the place late, in bad weather with low visibility. How they could know there is some cedar or forest?
 

December 26, 2019, 11:08:27 PM
Reply #17
Offline

Wonderer


It’s also a question if they had a knowledge about the terrain around, they came to the place late, in bad weather with low visibility. How they could know there is some cedar or forest?

Well, they were sking in the river valley before, so they knew that there was forest down there.
 

December 28, 2019, 01:35:45 AM
Reply #18
Offline

narvikk


They came from different direction, they didn't have knowledge about the cedar place in my opinion.


 

December 31, 2019, 06:36:17 PM
Reply #19
Offline

BMOORE4020


I've been reading all the replies to the theory I have put forward and I find the comments very interesting.

After thinking about this for a while, there is one piece of evidence I find very interesting

The fact that some members of the party had on only one shoe. Why?

If you break it down into its most basic elements:

There are really only a few  permutations of what could have happened here.
  • The person slept with both shoes on. No one sleeps with their shoes on. In any case, I find it highly unlikely they would take one shoe off and run out of the tent.
  • They slept with one shoe on and one shoe off. I find this highly  unlikely as well.
  • They slept with both shoes off, with the shoes close by , next to their sleeping bag. The person wakes up, in a stir, seems to find the time to put on one shoe, why not spend the additional 20 seconds to put on the other? What good is having one shoe anyway if you invested the time, not to put on the other?
  • The shoe came off on the way down the mountain. But if this happened, wouldn't one stop to retrieve the shoe in such conditions?

I would really like to know where the other shoe was found. If anyone finds any information in the material, please post.

I believe there is only one explanation: Relying only on touch, the person could not locate the other shoe because of the darkness.

I think we can be sure visibility was a problem once they reached the ceder tree. Both flashlights had been left behind. Why expend the effort to climb a tree when fire wood was so close by? I think they were relying on touch at this point. They could not see their surroundings.

Why build such a small fire? I think its because it was too exhausting to collect the firewood from the ceder.

Once you take into consideration the conditions and lack of illumination, the pieces fall into place.

Now I'd like to address the points that have been made:

 Wonderer - Thanks for the support.

MDGross - Thanks for the support as well.
The idea you put forth eliminates the element of panic and surprise. I think in the scenario you describe, a planned departure, they would in fact have time enough to gather supplies. The fear of being smothered to death as i describe would account for this. And the fear of unstable surroundings.
I do agree with your account of what happened in the ravine. Snow pressure played a part.

jarrfan - Another support or perhaps on the fence.
what reason would  the hikers have to cut the 3 holes in the tent? Purely a panic response initially. To get air. Then, more methodically the side, to escape. Also, its reported that the rescue party had to cut the tent as well.
And going with the thought they might be buried, it would be reasonable for one hiker to suit up and evaluate the situation outside of the tent as to the danger.
Your sound asleep. Snow falls on tent. Tent collapses. You wake up with a cloth material against your face. Its not suit up time. Its get out immediately or suffocate. It may be an avalanche. Every second counts. For get about untying the entrance. Get the knife out and cut an escape rout now.
If the flashlight was working as it appears it was, they could have taken a few minutes to find and put on their gear before leaving.
They abandon the flashlight half way down the mountain. It was found not to be in working order. It was out of batteries. I think the team realized it would be foolish to waste resources looking for supplies with an almost dead flashlight and only perhaps 30 minutes of time without a fire which they ha no means to make at the camp site. Also, the fact that they left a perfectly good flashlight behind at the campsite is another indicator of the pitch black visibility.
The other question is the cedar tree and why there was evidence of them climbing 9 feet to get brush for a den and firewood when it was readily available in the near area. There was flesh from their skin found on the cedar tree and broken or sawed limbs of the tree.
Again, it was pitch black. It was the only fuel available. They ran into this tree my chance and they took it as an opportunity to make a fire.
How could a blizzard snow leave them so exposed?
Snow at these temperatures is much like sand in a desert. It does not stay stationary. It can be moved by strong wind.

narvikk -
I think they would never gone away without proper clothing.
It was pitch black. There was no way to survey the surroundings. For all they knew, another snow slide could happen at any second. In these conditions, it became apparent that spending 10 minutes collecting supplies would mean death. A fire was the main priority. They could return later for supplies. Without a fire quickly, they would parish.
It’s also a question if they had a knowledge about the terrain around, they came to the place late, in bad weather with low visibility. How they could know there is some cedar or forest?
Examine the photograph of the team digging the trench for the tent. It is sunlight. Plenty of light to notice the tree line less than 1.5 km away. The ceder they came upon was by chance.

Again, the photograph proves they could clearly see the surrounding area and tree line.  Even without illumination, the slope of the moutain would guide them to the safety of the tree line.

 

January 01, 2020, 09:24:10 AM
Reply #20
Offline

jarrfan


I was just reading a link from BBC about the incident and Shavrin stated that they used the ice ax to cut into the tent. They found a slab of fat pork sliced up and ready to eat, which would indicate to me, they were not asleep when the incident occurred at the tent and had not yet eaten. The autopsies said their last meal was 6 to 8 hours before, if I remember that correctly....
 

January 01, 2020, 05:18:30 PM
Reply #21
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If I remember correctly, the case files/witness statements say that 7 of the blankets were layed out neatly while two were crumpled.  Given the poor state of dress of the two Yuris is it possible that they had settled down in their blankets while the others were still sitting around chatting and eating food when the incident started?

Regards

Star man
 

January 01, 2020, 09:05:32 PM
Reply #22
Offline

cennetkusu


If I remember correctly, the case files/witness statements say that 7 of the blankets were layed out neatly while two were crumpled.  Given the poor state of dress of the two Yuris is it possible that they had settled down in their blankets while the others were still sitting around chatting and eating food when the incident started?

Regards

Star man
On February 1, young people must have had a late breakfast. 12:00 noon to 2:00 p.m. And at first they set up the tent in the forest. Somewhere near the Dytlov pass. Because they had exhausted them to make a lot of stock in the woods. They had eaten their meals in this first tent. Then they began to hear terrible noises here. And they left and fled to a high and clear field. Because they believed that sound came from the forest. They set up their last tent between 15:00 and 17:00. Then the unknown coercive force approached them. And the young people opened peeping holes. I think it was daytime. But visibility was scarce. And he forced them to leave the tent. By the way, they only had a couple of minutes. Meanwhile, Semyon and Tibo was able to wear his shoes. And the two yuri had slept early because they were too tired. I think they might have a few things. When they leave the tent it is likely to be in the daytime. One of them was just a little away from the tent ..... If it were night, they would have taken both lighthouses with them. Already at night, the fastest way to reach the forest seems very suspicious ....
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 08:00:48 AM by Teddy »
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

January 02, 2020, 09:12:02 AM
Reply #23
Offline

cennetkusu


It was strictly forcing them to leave the tent. Unknown coercive force threatened them most likely several times. First, young people may not want to leave the tent. But in the second or third threat, the youth was very scared and suddenly left the tent. The unknown coercive force plan had already been established. Or he could have killed them a long time ago. Young people probably didn't think they were going to die. Because 1. Catches of fire 2. Going to the tree to watch 3. Dig a cave in the snow 4. And return to the tent. All this proves that young people have more hope for survival.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 08:00:33 AM by Teddy »
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

January 02, 2020, 09:24:37 AM
Reply #24
Offline

Nigel Evans


If I remember correctly, the case files/witness statements say that 7 of the blankets were layed out neatly while two were crumpled.  Given the poor state of dress of the two Yuris is it possible that they had settled down in their blankets while the others were still sitting around chatting and eating food when the incident started?

Regards

Star man


The poor state of dress of the two Yuris was because they had been stripped of clothing?
 

January 02, 2020, 04:35:22 PM
Reply #25
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If I remember correctly, the case files/witness statements say that 7 of the blankets were layed out neatly while two were crumpled.  Given the poor state of dress of the two Yuris is it possible that they had settled down in their blankets while the others were still sitting around chatting and eating food when the incident started?

Regards

Star man

The poor state of dress of the two Yuris was because they had been stripped of clothing?


True, but it is also likely that they were the first to perish indicating that they had less insulation and were less well dressed.  We have a good idea what clothes were taken by the other hikers and what was left in the tent, which points to the Yuris being the least well dressed for the conditions.

Regards

Star man
 

January 02, 2020, 05:16:33 PM
Reply #26
Offline

Nigel Evans


If I remember correctly, the case files/witness statements say that 7 of the blankets were layed out neatly while two were crumpled.  Given the poor state of dress of the two Yuris is it possible that they had settled down in their blankets while the others were still sitting around chatting and eating food when the incident started?

Regards

Star man

The poor state of dress of the two Yuris was because they had been stripped of clothing?


True, but it is also likely that they were the first to perish indicating that they had less insulation and were less well dressed.  We have a good idea what clothes were taken by the other hikers and what was left in the tent, which points to the Yuris being the least well dressed for the conditions.

Regards

Star man
I would have to disagree. Hypothermia is a relatively slow death with the victim losing consciousness in the final stages. Yuri K bit off the back of his hand which was found in his mouth.  Imo this strongly indicates sudden death. Yuri D was found with foam on his cheek suggesting a respiratory issue.  Given that they clearly seem to have died before the others this also points to rapid death. Plus there was a fire. The facts don't support death from hypothermia.
 

January 03, 2020, 01:52:08 PM
Reply #27
Offline

buran



 Did they ever realize they had lost their way? If so, they should have returned to the forest in time before camping.
 

January 03, 2020, 04:28:16 PM
Reply #28
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If I remember correctly, the case files/witness statements say that 7 of the blankets were layed out neatly while two were crumpled.  Given the poor state of dress of the two Yuris is it possible that they had settled down in their blankets while the others were still sitting around chatting and eating food when the incident started?

Regards

Star man

The poor state of dress of the two Yuris was because they had been stripped of clothing?


True, but it is also likely that they were the first to perish indicating that they had less insulation and were less well dressed.  We have a good idea what clothes were taken by the other hikers and what was left in the tent, which points to the Yuris being the least well dressed for the conditions.

Regards

Star man
I would have to disagree. Hypothermia is a relatively slow death with the victim losing consciousness in the final stages. Yuri K bit off the back of his hand which was found in his mouth.  Imo this strongly indicates sudden death. Yuri D was found with foam on his cheek suggesting a respiratory issue.  Given that they clearly seem to have died before the others this also points to rapid death. Plus there was a fire. The facts don't support death from hypothermia.

I take it that you disagree that they died of hypothermia rather than they were poorly dressed?

There is a possibility that they were poisoned with something like nitrogen dioxide.  My low yield nuclear weapon test theory provides an explanation for how this could have happened.  A chemical weapon test may also be a possible explanation as well as the rocket theory.

The low yield nuke is still a credible theory IMO.  I am still interested in the analysis of the tree ring samples.  When Josh Gates at al took the samples during the making of the expedition unknown programme on Dyatlov pass, they reported that there was some radiation but said that there wasn't any evidence to suggest a major event.  However, they didn't explain what kind of analysis they did or whether they looked for spikes of strontium 90 in the tree rings from about 60 years ago, which was one of the key tests I suggested in the thread.  The way they reported it seemed a bit vague IMO.  Almost as if it was deliberately vague.   I don't know if Teddy knows what sort of analysis was done? 

 If they had found something then I suppose that information may have significant value.  Even commercial value that could be exploited later on and therefore would not have been broadcast in the programme.  Who knows.  But, you are right that there are other possible explanations for the two Yuris deaths.

Even so, a simple explanation is that they were poorly dressed and therefore died of hypothermia earlier on.

Now if they  were hiding up the tree from something for some time then that would explain why Krivo bit his finger.  An attempt to revive his irresponsible hands.  Also, Yuri D may have fallen when decending the tree and landed on his chest.  By the time the fire was lit they had both already lost too much body heat to survive and the fire wasn't enough given the cold and the wind?

Regards

Star man
.