October 21, 2021, 02:02:30 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
« Last post by Manti on October 14, 2021, 04:54:27 AM »
The KGB was an intelligence and security agency. Unless these were fronts, intelligence agents don't work as teachers, tour guides, or as engineers in nuclear plants.

The equivalent would be the CIA and the NSA in the US.

Maybe Zolotaryov was a retired KGB agent. Even if Krivo was an agent, he must have been in a junior rank and that means little access to sensitive information. But maybe he wasn't an agent but an engineer at a nuclear plant and had some inside information...

Someone wanted that information so bad that they mounted an operation to infiltrate Russia, track down the hikers who didn't even share the route plan with the university, torture Krivo to extract that information and then murder everyone, all the while leaving no trace.

This must have been a foreign intelligence agency, most likely from the US.But the thing is, if this was a CIA operation to gain information about the Mayak plant, or even if there was a slight suggestion that was the case, the Soviet Union wouldn't need to cover anything up and would openly blame the US.

It would be in their own domestic and also international diplomatic interests to investigate and reveal the full truth about this evil foreign power murdering 7 or 8 civilians only to get information from a KGB agent.

But if it was a CIA operation, all of this would be unnecessary. They could monitor the group with night vision goggles at night for example, wait for Krivo to emerge alone to relieve himself, and capture him without harming the others. And detain him long term either taking him abroad or in some secreted undetected CIA facility within Russia to get the most amount of information out of him because usually people take time to start talking...

Because of all of this, I think this is very unlikely. If Krivo was tortured, it wasn't because he was a KGB agent or had information about Mayak.

And that is IF he was tortured. I would like to remind about light hearted photos of Rustem posing in Krivo's burnt quilted jacket which seem to be from the day before the incident: https://dyatlovpass.com/camera-krivonischenko

So it's possible he  burning himself is completely unrelated to and predated the incident.
General Discussion / Refutation of the conclusions of expert Tumanov
« Last post by Игорь Б. on October 13, 2021, 02:44:18 AM »
Радио "Комсомольская Правда" / Radio "Komsomolskaya Pravda":

Судмедэксперт Туманов опровергает сам себя в своей статье / Forensic expert Tumanov contradicts himself in his article:

Разное / Miscellaneous:

О самоповреждениях рук у замерзающих / On self-harm of hands of the frozen:

Об ожоге на ноге Кривонищенко / About the burn on the leg of Krivonischenko:

О невозможности точного определения давности ссадин у дятловцев / When the abrasions happened can not be accurately determined:

О длительной сохранности пятен Вишневского / On the preservation of Vishnevsky (aka death) spots:

О тёмной крови в сердце / About dark blood in the heart:

Снова радио "Комсомольская Правда" / Again radio "Komsomolskaya Pravda":
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
« Last post by EBE on October 13, 2021, 01:18:33 AM »
Why would it be the KGB's responsibility to protect them, and from whom would they even need to be protected?   

Based on info from Mr. Kuntsevich (head of the Dyatlov foundation, died few weeks ago), Krivo and Zolotaryov could have been KGB members. Krivo was working in the Mayak nuclear facility, and definitely had some information about the Soviet nuclear program. Also, his father was quite a prominent person.

Krivo on a ski trip far away from civilization could have been a good opportunity.. but of course it is just a speculation:). I would like to point out that pathologist Eduard Tumanov claimed that Krivo was probably tortured with fire before his death (charred toe, his left trousers burned on his leg, was burned up to the middle of his thigh).
Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Ron Tammen
« Last post by mk on October 12, 2021, 01:03:38 PM »
Fascinating rabbit hole!

1953: College sophomore  (good student, musician, athlete) is last seen getting a set of clean sheets to change the ones on his bed which had fallen victim to a college prank.  His room is found with the light on, textbook open on desk, and bed almost made up with clean sheets (pillow case remaining).  Theories include speculations about FBI, hypnosis, amnesia, his psych professor, and much more.  A lot of thorough research carefully compiled at this site:  ronaldtammen.com

General Discussion / Re: Why they abandon tent, clothes and objects ?
« Last post by MDGross on October 12, 2021, 09:07:49 AM »
"• Dubinina :Dispute or opposition in Vizhay (January 25 and 26) with the sponsor (client) of the February 1 attack by the troika of mercenary killers."

Jean Daniel: What evidence do you have that Lyuda had a dispute or argument with someone in Vizhay? And why would that person then send mercenary killers after the hikers? Motive?
General Discussion / Re: Quick medical question
« Last post by Игорь Б. on October 11, 2021, 10:51:33 PM »
Причина не медицинская, а оптическая.
На контрасте с белым снегом кожа кажется темнее, а без снега светлее:


General Discussion / Re: Quick medical question
« Last post by Manti on October 11, 2021, 06:37:01 PM »
It's not just Rustem, if you compare the photos of two Yuris under the tree vs thawed in the morgue, for example, it's the same effect.
 Unfortunately I don't know the medical reason.
General Discussion / Quick medical question
« Last post by PghRunner on October 11, 2021, 05:43:47 PM »

I just had a quick question on the autopsy photos of Rustik--in the first photos, when he still has snow on him, it looks like the skin is burned (from frostbite, I assume) and somewhat hunkered down.  However, the last two autopsy pictures seem to be when the body had thawed.  His skin looks perfect, as if he was just laying there.  Does anyone know what would cause this difference?  I don't think that the burns from frost bite/edema would go away to the point the skin looked "normal."  Or is this just a trick of the lighting?  It just strikes me as odd, since he was found face down and the initial pictures make him look unrecognizable.

Thank you!
General Discussion / Re: New hardcover. Signing books thru October 27.
« Last post by RidgeWatcher on October 10, 2021, 11:51:24 AM »
Good news to hear Teddy, a hardback edition for the Library,better for re-reads and references. Thanks.
General Discussion / Re: Why they abandon tent, clothes and objects ?
« Last post by Jean Daniel Reuss on October 09, 2021, 04:00:01 PM »
anganontaolo  : General Discussion > Why they abandon tent, clothes and objects ? --> August 08, 2021, 01:37:35 AM  - Reply #3
No matter if the force was very great, these tourists should be vigilant as they were experienced.
They were on a mountain where the wind blows very strongly (initially this place was not planned in advance). Their tent had to be attached to two trees but not with a pair of skis. In addition, they did not use their stove so it was very cold in this tent.
So why haven't they already put warm clothes in this tent? Warm clothes should be near them where they sleep.
Have they ever thought of attacks and getting ready to defend themselves against it? or else they believed that indeed there is no crime in paradise (socialist paradise) as Stalin said.

===> Why they abandon tent, clothes and objects ?

Because the 3 attackers (who can be qualified as murderers or mercenary killers) benefited from a total or almost total surprise effect.

===> No matter if the force was very great,

The hasty exit from the tent without adequate equipment could easily be explained by the atmosphere (air) inside suddenly becoming unbreathable: suffocating smoke pot - or wolverine according to the theory of Igor B.
(What is more difficult to explain is the descent - which seems to have been slow and calm - to the cedar, without the necessary equipment.)

===> these tourists should be vigilant as they were experienced.

Indeed, a good principle of security is to always remember that the greatest danger is the one that we did not, or could not, foresee.

Thus, for example, in the military field it is recommended, when possible, to launch a surprise attack on the enemy on the nights of festivities or during a storm.

Lupos, who is not a supporter of the criminal theories, presents good arguments to justify that the attack took place taking advantage of a local storm: temperature = -50 °C and wind = 35 m/s.
 See : Catabatic wind....

===> They were on a mountain where the wind blows....

Because they had taken several days to reach the slope of Kholat Syakhl (heavy bags, soft and deep snow, unknown route....) the hikers believed that they were far enough from inhabited places to no longer fear a human attack.

It was a mistake and a fatal illusion, because in fact the troika of the attackers took less than a day to reach the hikers by following their deep track from North-2.

===> So why haven't they already put warm clothes in this tent? Warm clothes should be near them where they sleep.
===> The risk was very great on this mountain and essential items should be ready if ever a problem arises: clothes, flashlight, ax, knife, etc ...
===> Have they ever thought of attacks and getting ready to defend themselves against it?

===> or else they believed that indeed there is no crime in paradise (socialist paradise) as Stalin said.

The illusion of living in « a socialist paradise » was maintained by the entire official state system (and in particular by the UPI route commission), which was trying to hide or minimize the internal unrest or difficulties of the USSR in 1959, during the Khrushchev thaw.

The period was characterized by the release of dangerous individuals caused by the uncontrolled dismantling of the Gulag, much to the displeasure of Stalinist officers in charge of the guarding of the camps ; (in this case the Ivdellag).

••• Remark N° 1 •••

I added effect of " almost total surprise " because it allowed to suppose that the 4 of the Den were a little mistrustful of the fact that they seem to have been the most warmly dressed at the time of the exit of the tent.

The 4 of Den were also probably the most educated and the most realistic in the field of the internal politics of the USSR.

  • Zolotariov had the experience of 4 years of war on the Eastern Front (in this case, it must be assumed that there was no substitution of identity).

  • Thibeaux-Brignole : In 1931 his father Vladimir Iosifovich Thibeaux-Brignolle and sent to SIBLAG,...In June 1933 Vladimir Iosifovich was reincarnated [rehabilitated ?] and transferred to the position of chief of the technical department in the mining area ....In 1938, Vladimir Iosifovich was sent to the deep taiga, to Gornaya Shoriya for heavy work... After all the trials, losses and humiliations, Vladimir Iosifovich's strength was undermined. He ... died... in September 1943.

  • Kolevatov : Stay in Moscow and indirectly witnessed discussions between some leaders or patrons of technological research programs.

  • Dubinina :Dispute or opposition in Vizhay (January 25 and 26) with the sponsor (client) of the February 1 attack by the troika of mercenary killers.

Thus it is probable that the 4 of the Den wanted to hide, while the 5 others, unaware of the inexorable exterminating will of the attackers, were quickly located by lighting a fire to warm up.

••• Remark N° 2 •••

The attentive reader of this forum will notice that this post, which wants to be an answer to anganontaolo , Reply #3, is in accordance with the TOK theory.

TOK theory = Eduard Tumanov + Per Inge Oestmoen + Aleks Kandr = surprise attack in order to kill or relentless "Altercation on the pass"
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