Dyatlov Pass Forum

Factual Information => Materials Modern => Topic started by: Teddy on July 10, 2020, 12:01:22 PM

Title: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 10, 2020, 12:01:22 PM
Dyatlov Pass: New sensational facts! On Saturday, July 11, 12 pm Moscow time, Komsomolskaya Pravda editorial will hold a press conference on the Dyatlov Pass incident. New unique documents and testimonies will be presented. KP specifically does not identify the name of the main speaker in advance, wishing to maintain the intrigue of the upcoming event. They guarantee a number of revelations will be made for the first time in the long history of the mystery of the death of nine skiers in the Northern Urals.

Following the press conference Natalya Varsegova published her article: Results of the investigation (https://dyatlovpass.com/procecutors-investigation?rbid=18461)


https://youtu.be/6Iw3chP8PFo

Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 11, 2020, 02:43:09 AM
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-Pass-KP-Andrey-Kuryakov-1.jpg)

The mystery speaker at the press conference is Andrey Kuryakov - Head of the Prosecutor’s Office of the Sverdlovsk Region. This is the long awaited moment we hear the results of the preliminary investigation started in 2018.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Jean Daniel Reuss on July 11, 2020, 06:02:09 AM
I have watched a part of the program (in French time the end was at 1 pm unless I am mistaken), but I suffer a lot from being ignorant and not being able to understand a single word in Russian.
The man, the second from the right, has a really beautiful white beard !

On the left, I recognized my dear mentor Eduard Tumanov who is however contradicted by Aleks Kandr about the explanations of Dubinina's tongue being torn out.

http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova-3

Link obtained from :
https://dyatlovpass.com/dubininas-premonition?lid=1&flp=1

By the way, what do we know about Aleks Kandr? (which seems a bit weird - for me as a rationalist, because of Aleks Kandr's references to astrology).

(I manage to understand, partially and very slowly, Aleks Kandr's texts thanks to an online automatic translator.)

Like Sabine Lechtenfeld, I do not believe in telepathy. But on the opposite, I have a great admiration for women's intuition.

So I am also very intrigued by Kolmogorova's most mysterious sentence:

 •   "I talked a lot about things which are completely unfamiliar to me and I scarcely do, but I tried, sincerely. But this is all nonsense"
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 11, 2020, 06:31:06 AM
•   "I talked a lot about things which are completely unfamiliar to me and I scarcely do, but I tried, sincerely. But this is all nonsense"

This could be freely applied to the press conference that just finished.
I am waiting on Natalya Varsegova to publish her article to bring to you the gist of the so called press conference.

A spoiler - it's an avalanche.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 11, 2020, 11:31:45 AM
The long awaited results of the investigation that started in 2018 were announced today by Andrey Valentinovich Kuryakov - Head of the Prosecutor’s Office of the Sverdlovsk Region. Expert opinions, test results, 3D model of the pass, in-depth study of terrain, weather, behavior, risks, military archives, books on avalanches, and yet there is still this feeling that something is missing, perhaps the big picture.

Article by Natalya Varsegova: Results of the investigation (https://dyatlovpass.com/procecutors-investigation?rbid=18461)
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Monty on July 11, 2020, 11:56:09 AM
The article is very well written and perhaps the best fit for an explanation. However, I don't see anything new that hasn't been proposed on here before. No smoking gun, so to speak
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 11, 2020, 12:18:52 PM
The results of the new investigation are repeating Shkryabach conclusion (https://dyatlovpass.com/sergey-shkryabach-conclusion?rbid=18461) all over again. My personal opinion is that Andrey Kuryakov gave a modern scientific explanation to an old wrong conclusion.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: WAB on July 11, 2020, 01:39:18 PM
The results of the new investigation are repeating Shkryabach conclusion (https://dyatlovpass.com/sergey-shkryabach-conclusion?rbid=18461) all over again. My personal opinion is that Andrey Kuryakov gave a modern scientific explanation to an old wrong conclusion.

 No, Teddy, there was no scientific explanation. He is babbling on about, that science couldn't even smell there.
Some specifications for this conference:

1. Andrey Kuryakov is not working at the prosecutor's office now. He quit there six months ago. So it's no more than his own opinion.
2. Sergey Shkryabych's opinion is based on the fact that on some mountaineering expeditions he met with Boris Slobtsov (if I'm not mistaken, he even went to the top under the leadership of Boris Slobtsov), so when he met a familiar surname on the cover of the book, he wasn't even interested in how plausible it was that Buyanov was writing almost without Slobtsov's participation. I discussed this story with him many times (perhaps even more than anyone else), and he told me there in plain text that he was represented there as a "wedding general". Answering the question: what to do with the fact that it does not coincide with what is on the ground, he said that since he once made a promise to Buyanov, what will be in the authors of the book, he can not back down.
3. It's ridiculous and sad to talk about "snow meters" and "cornices." Because it's a complete nonsense there. If Kuryakov was there (upstairs, near the pass) only 2 hours and didn't see anything like that, it's called "empty fantasy". To mention that Shura and I were there a week before and did the whole program that they offered (and they didn't do half of it themselves) to them (and the journalists of the newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda) probably are not allowed to have religious beliefs. We have a lot of concrete results, which they also kept quiet about. But journalists (especially Natalia Varsegova) are well aware of it. Me and Shura wrote a lot about them in various Internet sources. Including on this forum. Moreover, the books published by journalists of the newspaper "Komsomolskaya Pravda" (for example, the book by Nikolai Andreev) even contain numerous quotations and references to this information.

If to say rudely not honestly, it is called here: "To dump manure on a fan." Let the others sniff...

PS. I don't have much time for discussion right now. Especially in the forum format. But if there are short and specific questions, I can answer by e-mail.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: RidgeWatcher on July 11, 2020, 11:46:39 PM
Thank you Teddy and WAB,

This was somewhat interesting but I still believe that Russians from Sverdlovsk would be able to adequately gauge the avalanche probability, even on 25 degrees in a storm.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:

Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".

Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February? If they were sawyers, why would they need to go above the tree lines and up the side of Kholat Syakhl?
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 12, 2020, 12:36:51 AM
At WAB, this is very interesting, thank you. I had to look up what does "wedding general" mean, it means VIP.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:
Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".
Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February? If they were sawyers, why would they need to go above the tree lines and up the side of Kholat Syakhl?

This is old news https://dyatlovpass.com/when-was-the-tent-found (https://dyatlovpass.com/when-was-the-tent-found)
When Cheglakov and Pashin found the tent they were already recruited to actively look for the missing group. The only mystery is why didn't they report their finding.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Nigel Evans on July 12, 2020, 07:30:24 AM
Not exactly a comprehensive explanation of the evidence!
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: MDGross on July 12, 2020, 10:00:36 AM
Yesterday, in the offices of Komsomolskaya Pravda, members of the committee that in 2018 investigated the Dyatlov tragedy detailed their conclusion. Since the investigation only considered three scenarios - avalanche, snow slab and hurricane - it's not surprising that they concluded that an avalanche was the cause. It seems that Zolotaryov, who was standing outside the tent with Thibeaux-Brignolle, heard the characteristic sounds of an avalanche beginning above the tent and alerted the others in the tent. The nine hikers made their way down to the forest, where Doroshenko, Krivonischenko, Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova died from hypothermia. Zolotaryov, Dubinina, Thibeaux-Brignolle and Kolevatov scooped out a snow den, but in doing so caused part of the floor to collapse and caused the four to fall into the ravine. Could the tragedy unfold in this way? Of course. Did it happen this way? Who knows, the findings of the committee raise as many questions as they tried to answer.
The committee did present declassified data of the Ministry of Defense that did confirm that a missile launch occurred on Feb. 2, but that the missile flew in the opposite direction of the hikers, crashing in Kazakhstan.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: WAB on July 12, 2020, 11:48:46 AM
At WAB, this is very interesting, thank you. I had to look up what does "wedding general" mean, it means VIP.

"Свадебный генерал = Wedding General" it is the kind of person who's invited to the event  decorate the event itself. So to some extent it is VIP, but only as impressive image.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:
Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".
Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February? If they were sawyers, why would they need to go above the tree lines and up the side of Kholat Syakhl?

This is old news https://dyatlovpass.com/when-was-the-tent-found (https://dyatlovpass.com/when-was-the-tent-found)
When Cheglakov and Pashin found the tent they were already recruited to actively look for the missing group. The only mystery is why didn't they report their finding.

It's not mystery, it's journalist's desire inflate fake sensation. It's traditional trick for them. The more they write any nonsense, the more money they'll get.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: WAB on July 12, 2020, 11:53:46 AM
Thank you Teddy and WAB,

This was somewhat interesting but I still believe that Russians from Sverdlovsk would be able to adequately gauge the avalanche probability, even on 25 degrees in a storm.

The Russians can do lot of things. Of course, this case will someday be revealed, but not in a fake way that is now used.
There's no 25 degrees in the place where the tent was. We measured it in both 2014 and 2019. There's slope of 16...17 degrees everywhere. In small areas (about 5 m) sometimes the angle reaches 20 degrees, but these are local areas in 2 or 3 places separately.
No one in the checking group made any measurements, and the properties of snow did not conduct the full program, in contrast to what we did. Therefore, the possibility of an avalanche (or any snow movement) can only be considered hypothetically.

What I found shocking, because I had never read or heard about is this:

Andrey Kuryakov: "Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?".

Don't pay attention to this article, it's fake.
2 days before Sharavin and Slobtsov found the tent, Pashin and Cheglakov were in his (Boris Slobtsov was the leader of the group) group together with all the others and did not go far away. They were constantly seen by all the other group members. It takes almost 2 days for the whole group (11 people) reach the tent from the place the journalists are thinking about.  This is exactly as long as the whole group needs go there. And they had to go back and move on with the group.
Or are you a supporter of alien tragression?
There are no miracles in nature, and what illiterate journalists write (about the movement and possibilities of people) does not exist in life.
In addition, this is understandable because everyone in the group, who said something about this search, claimed that Pashin and Cheglakov were very badly oriented on the ground in the place where they landed from the helicopter.
They did not report it just because they found nothing. There was nothing to report.

Who were Pashin and Cheglakov and why would they be climbing Dyatlove Pass in February?

Pashin was forester in the village Vizhai (80 km from that place), Cheglakov was the head of the fire brigade. They were both hunters, but there were no hunters in the upper reaches of the Lozva River and the Auspia River. It is very far from Vizhay, and much closer there are places for hunting, which are no worse than the place where they were disembarked from the helicopter.
Only Pashin, together with Sharavin and Slobtsov, rose to the pass. Since he was 30 years older than these two young men, he was constantly tired, so he stayed by the stone on the pass, and the other two went further and found a tent.
Here, the simple logic of events disproves what the journalists have inflated in an empty place.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 12, 2020, 01:10:22 PM
Ok, WAB, I really don't need more weirdness that it is necessary. No aliens, no teleportation.

@ RidgeWatcher: Kuryakov didn't say this. This questions is from the authors of the article.

FROM THE AUTHORS
...
In the meantime, these questions remained open:
...
    Why the foresters Pashin and Cheglakov, having found Dyatlov tent two days before the search party didn't report it?
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Marchesk on July 13, 2020, 03:54:02 PM
This is BS. That slope isn't avalanche prone according to everything I've read and heard about the case. They wouldn't run downhill from an oncoming avalanche, and the footprints indicated they walked. If all nine of them decided to stop at the cedar tree to make a fire, how come it was so small and was allowed to burn out? Did they really sit around and wait for the two Yuris to freeze to death before going back uphill with some of their clothing? Why would three of them decide to return to their tent after going all the way downslope instead of five minutes after the avalanche? Why did the tent show only vertical collapse, not horizontal? And where did such precise weather readings mentioned in the article come from?

I don't buy this theory. I also don't believe a 3 meter fall from a snow den collapse causes all the injuries found on the Rav 4. The original investigation dismissed the avalanche theory right away. It was clear the tent had not been covered by an avalanche, because there was no indication it had been moved horizontally downslope, and that slope isn't avalanche prone.

Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on July 14, 2020, 03:41:34 PM
This is BS. That slope isn't avalanche prone according to everything I've read and heard about the case. They wouldn't run downhill from an oncoming avalanche, and the footprints indicated they walked. If all nine of them decided to stop at the cedar tree to make a fire, how come it was so small and was allowed to burn out? Did they really sit around and wait for the two Yuris to freeze to death before going back uphill with some of their clothing? Why would three of them decide to return to their tent after going all the way downslope instead of five minutes after the avalanche? Why did the tent show only vertical collapse, not horizontal? And where did such precise weather readings mentioned in the article come from?

I don't buy this theory. I also don't believe a 3 meter fall from a snow den collapse causes all the injuries found on the Rav 4. The original investigation dismissed the avalanche theory right away. It was clear the tent had not been covered by an avalanche, because there was no indication it had been moved horizontally downslope, and that slope isn't avalanche prone.

Bullshit sums it up nicely.  Its like a Government trying to cover something up and doing a very bad job of it.  Even non experts can use their common sense and see that the area where the Tent was pitched was not in an area conducive to Avalanches.  Avalanches of any kind. 
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: RidgeWatcher on July 14, 2020, 04:12:25 PM
Thank you, WAB And Teddy for answering my questions.

I have and will always give the Dyatlov Ski Tourists the respect that they deserve to adequately assess the slope on Kholat Syakhl for avalanche danger. Igor and the group knew what they were doing.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Naufragia on July 16, 2020, 02:20:43 AM
The objections posted by WAB, Nigel, Marchesk and Sarapuk look valid to me. I'm scratching my head over how the findings can be so definite and precise with respect to some aspects, yet so loose and dismissive of others. Maybe the formal report, rather than a journalist's version of its contents, will clarify?
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 16, 2020, 02:41:29 AM
The objections posted by WAB, Nigel, Marchesk and Sarapuk look valid to me. I'm scratching my head over how the findings can be so definite and precise with respect to some aspects, yet so loose and dismissive of others. Maybe the formal report, rather than a journalist's version of its contents, will clarify?

I have asked the journalist the question if we will ever see the original reports and the answer was that they are so "weak" (was the word used) that they will never see the light of day because the authors are old and the negative reaction and criticism can seriously jeopardize their health. The journalists are actually being kind because one thing you don't know is that Kuryakov stripped his uniform to deliver his findings because he was not given the green light by his supervisors. He held the press conference as a civilian. He wanted us to know what has he been up to the last 2 years, because the Prosecutor's office is not obliged to report anything. They can do whatever they want. There could be total silence and we would have imagined.... I don't have to spell it out what would be the speculations if we hadn't heard anything from the investigation. But that's about it. We won't hear anything more on the the topic of investigation, nothing useful anyway. Sure thing the press can twist that damp cloth for drops of information but nothing critical will come out, because there is nothing. At least this is what I have been told. Besides the forensic reports. No one has seen the forensic reports yet. Maybe there is something to look for after all. But the forensic reports will not support foul play. This much I know.

Right now I am more worried about Kuryakov, because no matter how "innocent" his report he took it upon himself to deliver it. The whole "investigation' is his initiative. He wasn't appointed to do it. He received some stupid letter from a crazy person and followed up on it. Kuryakov got sucked up into the rabbit hole like all of us, and since he was in a position to do something about it, he got the approval of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation Yuri Chayka. They now have a new Prosecutor General - Yuri Krasnov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutor_General_of_Russia). The bureaucracy in Russia is unbelievable. What Kuryakov did gave us a glimpse of hope, but be assured that this is a very rare phenomenon. Attacking the investigation is futile, because there won't be another.
 
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sparrow on July 16, 2020, 04:43:29 AM
It wasn't much of an investigation if they already had their minds made up about what their conclusion would be. neg1

Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on July 16, 2020, 05:03:45 AM
It wasn't much of an investigation if they already had their minds made up about what their conclusion would be. neg1

My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Naufragia on July 16, 2020, 05:11:04 AM
Hi Teddy, thanks for explaining the background to the investigation. It really helps to know what the context is ... and that we shouldn't get our hopes up for more revelations from it.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: hoosiergose on July 16, 2020, 09:40:10 PM
  • So experienced alpine hikers ran from an avalanche down the fall line instead of traversing sideways. Surely if an avalanche could make enough noise, it would leave a rubble field to be identified 4 weeks later?
  • Two well dressed members with a flashlight didn't return to collect clothing, although extreme cold was now the enemy.
  • The curious and different injuries to Zinaida, Igor, Rustem are simply dismissed with - "Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova, one after another, began to climb back along the slope, but due to overcooling the felt helpless and fell to the ground.". Rustem suffered head trauma and internal bleeding? Zinaida's face is reported in the autopsy as abrasions but the morgue photos challenge this (imo)?
  • Tent found covered in firn snow.
  • No explanation is offered for YuriK's leg.
  • The overall lack of frostbite in extreme cold is ignored.
  • The ravine 4's injuries were due to a fall of 3m!!
  • Footsteps in wet snow - ignored.
  • Reports of orange snow - ignored.
  • Purple glow on clothing - ignored.
  • Two bodies were stripped of clothing but a number of burnt pieces of clothing were discarded - ignored.
  • Nicolai found with his gloves in his pocket - ignored.
  • Strange photos - ignored.
  • Strange but similar marks on Igor, YuriK and possibly YuriD - ignored.
  • Okishev's and Ivanov's statement that they were ordered to front a coverup and cooperate with confiscation of evidence - ignored.
  • Case shutdown on discovery of last bodies and a request for a summer site inspection refused - ignored.
Not exactly a comprehensive explanation of the evidence!

Excellent synopsis Nigel - excellent points- well spoken indeed
As usual you’re analytical mind defines you Sir
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: hoosiergose on July 16, 2020, 09:46:37 PM
The latest Government findings of the Dyatlov incident is basically the same old smoke & mirrors. Not a serious investigation in any way shape or form.
Very disappointing indeed
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: WAB on July 17, 2020, 12:41:16 AM
  • So experienced alpine hikers ran from an avalanche down the fall line instead of traversing sideways. Surely if an avalanche could make enough noise, it would leave a rubble field to be identified 4 weeks later?
  • Two well dressed members with a flashlight didn't return to collect clothing, although extreme cold was now the enemy.
  • The curious and different injuries to Zinaida, Igor, Rustem are simply dismissed with - "Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova, one after another, began to climb back along the slope, but due to overcooling the felt helpless and fell to the ground.". Rustem suffered head trauma and internal bleeding? Zinaida's face is reported in the autopsy as abrasions but the morgue photos challenge this (imo)?
  • Tent found covered in firn snow.
  • No explanation is offered for YuriK's leg.
  • The overall lack of frostbite in extreme cold is ignored.
  • The ravine 4's injuries were due to a fall of 3m!!
  • Footsteps in wet snow - ignored.
  • Reports of orange snow - ignored.
  • Purple glow on clothing - ignored.
  • Two bodies were stripped of clothing but a number of burnt pieces of clothing were discarded - ignored.
  • Nicolai found with his gloves in his pocket - ignored.
  • Strange photos - ignored.
  • Strange but similar marks on Igor, YuriK and possibly YuriD - ignored.
  • Okishev's and Ivanov's statement that they were ordered to front a coverup and cooperate with confiscation of evidence - ignored.
  • Case shutdown on discovery of last bodies and a request for a summer site inspection refused - ignored.
Not exactly a comprehensive explanation of the evidence!

Excellent synopsis Nigel - excellent points- well spoken indeed
As usual you’re analytical mind defines you Sir

Mr. Hoosiergose, you'll have to excuse me, but this is not analytics, but set of small quasi-intellectual words involved primarily in collection of fabrications, gossip and rumors.
If you want, I can make detailed analysis of all these insinuations.
I have already stopped communicating with this mister because he is not even able understand the simplest physical and mathematical examples that disprove his claims. This is not my level of discussion, and I have no desire or intention of going down to his level.

Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: WAB on July 17, 2020, 12:43:19 AM
The latest Government findings of the Dyatlov incident is basically the same old smoke & mirrors. Not a serious investigation in any way shape or form.

I have correct you in these comments.
1. These aren't government statements or even the official version of the prosecution.
2. Mr. Kuryakov spoke with his private opinion, initiated by journalists and nothing more. He can't give his opinion to the Prosecutor's Office, because he hasn't worked there for more than six months.
3. This opinion has nothing to do with the real state of affairs and I know it very well, because   week before, my friend and I had conducted all the experiments announced by the Prosecutor's Office, and their expedition on the spot could not conduct even half of these applications. What they were doing elsewhere, they could do anywhere (even in Africa), but it does not give the right results and cannot be the basis for the right conclusions.
4. If you paid attention to what the specialists involved said in the conclusion of this conference, you must understand that doctor Tumanov did not agree with the interpretation of trauma, and glaciologist Popovnin softly said that if the theory of avalanche can be considered (literally: "...has the right to exist...". (c) ), it means that he cannot guarantee that it was so.
5. Even what the prosecution team headed by Mr. Kuryakov was doing was not investigation, it was three-point test of the theory. The investigation and other official actions under Russian law in this case cannot be carried out for two reasons:
A) - there was court decision refusing to conduct the investigation in 2013 because one person submitted to the court illiterate and insignificant "quasi-evidence" of the wrong decision. All terms of appeal and cassation were missed long ago, so the court's decision cannot be reviewed.
B) - there are no new and essential facts and evidence in this case. If someone considers himself above the law and invents something unrealistic as these conditions, then this is the usual position of legally illiterate person.

Very disappointing indeed

I fully agree with you, but this only applies to the fact that such studies and the presentation of their results must be done very competently, qualitatively and responsibly.
I am only talking about the physical, logical and factual part of the research. Legal issues are separate line, but there are no prospects for that.
Let us distinguish between the desires of the public and the system of legal actions of the state.
Any scientific and factual investigation will be possible and useful for solving this case, but it should be done independently and very competently. In the other case, it would simply be imitation of that action, as the actions of the group led by Mr. Kuryakov have shown.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Nigel Evans on July 17, 2020, 10:59:42 AM
I have already stopped communicating with this mister because he is not even able understand the simplest physical and mathematical examples that disprove his claims. This is not my level of discussion, and I have no desire or intention of going down to his level.
Dear WAB.
You enjoy my respect for making the effort to post on a forum not in your first language with the burden of translation. But you seem to be missing the point of it, which is, to discuss, contest, agree and disagree. Perhaps even with a sense of humour....


Regards.

Title: New Press Conference
Post by: Monty on July 17, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
My impression is WAB brings a very pragmatic approach. Nigel has a very diverse approach. I can't prove that either is right or either is wrong. But for my understanding of the Dyatlov Pass Incident to evolve I require both perspectives. Just because we have reached another dead end, doesn't mean we can't still speculate or hypothesize. And yes, hats off to WAB for keeping some of us in check in a second language.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on July 17, 2020, 06:17:44 PM
No one is perfect.  And we are all trying to make sense of this Dyatlov Mystery and the apparent reluctance of the Russian Authorities to carry out a PROPER INVESTIGATION.  There is nothing stopping the Russian Authorities from doing so.  It matters not that the Criminal Investigation was over a long time ago.  What matters is now in the present time.  And that is why so many people believe that the Russian Authorities are trying to cover something up.  A proper investigation does not have to be of a criminal nature.  It can be done because it is in the PUBLIC INTEREST to do so.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sparrow on July 19, 2020, 03:12:30 AM
Does anybody know if autopsies of that time period  were usually what seemed to me to be quite lacking?  Were investigations sort of hit and miss like this one seems to be to me? Is there anyone on this forum who knows anything about what autopsy reports should reveal and does that seem to be the case here?
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on July 19, 2020, 05:11:46 PM
Does anybody know if autopsies of that time period  were usually what seemed to me to be quite lacking?  Were investigations sort of hit and miss like this one seems to be to me? Is there anyone on this forum who knows anything about what autopsy reports should reveal and does that seem to be the case here?

Thats a good question.  I think somewhere else in this Forum I may have expressed some doubt about the thoroughness of the Autopsies. I suppose only a real Pathologist could answer.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Vietnamka on August 16, 2020, 06:58:26 PM

The mystery speaker at the press conference is Andrey Kuryakov - Head of the Prosecutor’s Office of the Sverdlovsk Region. This is the long awaited moment we hear the results of the preliminary investigation started in 2018.
Teddy, translate please))
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4457652
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on August 17, 2020, 01:22:47 AM
The Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation Igor Krasnov issued a warning about the incomplete official compliance of the deputy head of the Department of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation for the Ural Federal District, Andrey Kuryakov. The document is fully posted on the «Bivshiy Sledak» (https://t.me/exsled/381?single) telegram channel. Its reliability was confirmed by the source of Kommersant-Ural in the regional department.

The document says that on July 11 this year, Mr. Kuryakov, acting for personal purposes, took part in a press conference announcing the completion of the investigation into the death of Igor Dyatlov's group in 1959. During the press conference, he also assessed the activities of the prosecutor's office of the Sverdlovsk region in conducting an audit of the circumstances of the death of hikers in 2018-2019, says the decree.

At the press conference Andrey Kuryakov said that the mystery of the death of hikers at the Dyatlov pass was revealed: an avalanche became the cause of death. According to him, this version has found its full confirmation.

He voiced this information for the preparation of his dissertation for the degree of candidate of legal sciences, follows from the decree. Igor Krasnov called it a disciplinary offense in the form of improper performance by Andrey Kuryakov of his official duties. In this regard, he was warned about incomplete official compliance. This is the maximum possible punishment before dismissal.

Andrey Kuryakov has been working in the department of the Prosecutor General's Office of the Russian Federation for the Ural Federal District since November 2019. Prior to that, since 2011, he headed the Department for Supervision over the Execution of Federal Legislation of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region. It is believed that it was thanks to him that the Prosecutor General's Office initiated the verification of Dyatlov's death.

The source of "Kommersant-Ural" said that the management, even without a press conference, has complaints against Andrey Kuryakov. According to the interlocutor, Mr. Kuryakov, using his official position, tried to influence the replacement of the prosecutor of Yekaterinburg. Since 2015, the city department has been headed by Svetlana Kuznetsova. The position of her deputy is occupied by Venera Kuryakova, who is the wife of Andrey Kuryakov.

Source Kommersant (https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4457652)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-Andrey-Kuryakov-1.jpg)
Andrey Kuryakov - Press Conference February 4, 2019

Andrey Kuryakov is delivering the results and conclusion of the latest investigation as a civilian.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-Andrey-Kuryakov-2.jpg)
Andrey Kuryakov - Press Conference July 11, 2020

Decree of the Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation dated August 8, 2020

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-Kuryakov-1.jpg)


(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-Kuryakov-2.jpg)

Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on August 18, 2020, 04:06:18 PM
The Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation Igor Krasnov issued a warning about the incomplete official compliance of the deputy head of the Department of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation for the Ural Federal District, Andrey Kuryakov. The document is fully posted on the «Bivshiy Sledak» (https://t.me/exsled/381?single) telegram channel. Its reliability was confirmed by the source of Kommersant-Ural in the regional department.

The document says that on July 11 this year, Mr. Kuryakov, acting for personal purposes, took part in a press conference announcing the completion of the investigation into the death of Igor Dyatlov's group in 1959. During the press conference, he also assessed the activities of the prosecutor's office of the Sverdlovsk region in conducting an audit of the circumstances of the death of hikers in 2018-2019, says the decree.

At the press conference Andrey Kuryakov said that the mystery of the death of hikers at the Dyatlov pass was revealed: an avalanche became the cause of death. According to him, this version has found its full confirmation.

So where does that leave us.  Its even more confusing now. Does it mean that there is hope yet.  Will the Russian Authorities, aka,  THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT,  finally give us the Investigation that is really needed.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Vietnamka on August 18, 2020, 05:14:16 PM
So where does that leave us.  Its even more confusing now. Does it mean that there is hope yet.  Will the Russian Authorities, aka,  THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, finally give us the Investigation that is really needed.
No. Not this government.
It is difficult to understand "who is who" in Russian, but I will try...

Andrey Kuryakov
2011- Nov 2019 headed the Department of the Prosecutor's Office of the Sverdlovsk Region. Prosecutor General of Russia that time - Yury Chaika. The investigation started in 2017.

Nov 2019 Kuryakov was promoted by Chaika to Head of Department Prosecutor General's Office of the Russian Federation for the Ural Federal District.  Prosecutor General of Russia was still Yury Chaika

Jan 2020 Yury Chaika was fired and succeeded by Igor Krasnov.

Igor Krasnov
is the new Prosecutor General of Russia. He signed the above mentioned decree.
In Russia, as in many countries, the Prosecutor's Office and the Investigative Committee are completely different organizations. The Investigative Committee conducts the investigation, and the Prosecutor's Office oversees compliance with the law. Before heading the Prosecutor General's Office Igor Krasnov was Deputy Head of the Investigative Committee.

There are only two options to reopen the case.
Komsomolskaya Pravda (KP) and Leonid Proshkin started from Investigative Committee (IC) in 2014. Investigation lasted several years and ended in an amazing way. The answer from the IC is "we have not conducted any investigation, we do not know anything" (full text (https://dyatlovpass.com/court-refusal-2018-08-31)). The lawyer has copies of all documents in his hands, but the IC replied that they see them for the first time. It was Krasnov.
Ok, if it doesn't work in one place - let's go to another. KP initiated another investigation, now at the prosecutor's office. Everything goes well until Krasnov gets in the picture.

It is possible that the old situation would have repeated and no one would have received results at all. Kuryakov showed all documents during the press-conference and was punished by Krasnov.

Сould an avalanche be the cause of such games and events at the highest level of Russian officials?
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Teddy on August 19, 2020, 02:31:03 AM
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-Yury-Yakovlevich-Chaika.jpg)
Yury Yakovlevich Chaika - Prosecutor General of Russia from 2006 to 2020. He was fired by Putin and succeeded by Igor Krasnov

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-Igor-Victorovich-Krasnov.jpg)
Igor Victorovich Krasnov - Prosecutor General of Russia since January 22, 2020
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on August 20, 2020, 06:26:11 AM

Thanks for the enlightenment Vietnamka. So below is what we have to go on. This is as far as we get with the present Authorities or Government in Russia  !  ? 


[[  The study of the case materials revealed that the most likely reason for the death of the hikers could be a confluence of adverse circumstances and the violation of safety rules in difficult conditions of mountainous terrain (temperatures ranging from -30 to -35°C, a snowstorm with a wind speed of 25-35 m/sec., darkness and the location of the tent on a steep slope). Panic among the people could have occurred due to an avalanche and snow falling on the tent. The death of all nine people occurred from frostbite and injuries caused by falling from height. There is no data supporting the presence of man-made factors associated with the death of the hikers in the case. The case materials indicate that the death of the people from an attack by unknown persons, animals or conflicts within the group were ruled out.
Given the above, there are no grounds for resuming the preliminary investigation.  ]]
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Squatch on August 20, 2020, 09:57:45 AM

Thanks for the enlightenment Vietnamka. So below is what we have to go on. This is as far as we get with the present Authorities or Government in Russia  !  ? 


[[  The study of the case materials revealed that the most likely reason for the death of the hikers could be a confluence of adverse circumstances and the violation of safety rules in difficult conditions of mountainous terrain (temperatures ranging from -30 to -35°C, a snowstorm with a wind speed of 25-35 m/sec., darkness and the location of the tent on a steep slope). Panic among the people could have occurred due to an avalanche and snow falling on the tent. The death of all nine people occurred from frostbite and injuries caused by falling from height. There is no data supporting the presence of man-made factors associated with the death of the hikers in the case. The case materials indicate that the death of the people from an attack by unknown persons, animals or conflicts within the group were ruled out.
Given the above, there are no grounds for resuming the preliminary investigation.  ]]

Wasn't it announced early on that only the avalanche and related natural causes theories would be examined? In other words: No military, murder/robbery, Yeti, UFO, etc., would be considered?

That's not satisfactory at all. I happen to agree with the conclusion that it was some kind of real or perceived avalanche with fall or snow collapse injuries/deaths later on. But a real investigation should be open to all possibilities before starting.

Not a good investigation in my opinion.

P.S. And didn't Josh Gates' "Expedition Unknown" cable show uncover evidence that Russian authorities knew just days after the tragedy happened that the hikers were dead? There was supposedly a Russian document that showed this.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sparrow on August 20, 2020, 11:46:58 PM
This was not a real investigation.  They decided what the result of the investigation would be before they had even started it.  It was mentioned that there was information that was still classified.  If it really was an old case that had been solved, then why not release everything available?  What secrets are they keeping?  And what about the differing dates mentioned by Squatch? I think there were wrong(?) dates on two pieces of evidence.  I do not like to bad mouth people or worse, but I think this investigation was a lot of bunk (my opinion).  If we have all the information they have, then how is it that most of us still have unanswered questions?
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Saltyseadog on August 21, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
Best Of Luck Galina - We all now know what the overwhelming force was that Ivanov referred to! The Government coverup - Keep it up.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Naufragia on August 21, 2020, 11:34:21 PM
Thanks for the update, that's very interesting. Politics aside, I'm not clear on what Prosecutor-General Krasnov has disciplined/warned Mr Kuryakov for. Was it using official time and resources for his personal benefit, i.e. completing his dissertation? Conducting an unathorised investigation? Claiming he had conducted an investigation when he hadn't?
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Vietnamka on August 23, 2020, 07:22:53 PM
Thanks for the update, that's very interesting. Politics aside, . Conducting an unathorised investigation? Claiming he had conducted an investigation when he hadn't?

For better understanding...  the Prosecutor's Office does not make "investigation", but  oversees compliance  investigation has been done with the law. The prosecutor's office should check  the rights of relatives have been violated or not during investigation.
If any violations are found, this is a reason to reopen the case.
The reasone  for this checking is the official appeal.

Quote
Was it using official time and resources for his personal benefit, i.e. completing his dissertation?
It was the official condacted check based on the official appeal.

Quote
I'm not clear on what Prosecutor-General Krasnov has disciplined/warned Mr Kuryakov for
I can only guess.   From the  beginning to the end, the investigation was carried out by Kuryakov. Investigation ended on Nov 2019. On Nov 2019 the results should be provided to KP, but it did not happend. Why?
 From Nov 2019 Kuryakov was transferred to another position and his successor should provide the results. It did not happend too. Why?
The only one "problem" of Kuryakov I see is that during the second press conference he already held a different position and had no official relation to that investigation. The prosecutor's office did not want provide  results, but he did.
The funny thing is that the prosecutor's office has been breaking the law since November 2019. And by declaring that they "do not agree with Kuryakov's conclusions", do they want to say that not avalanche was there?











   





 

Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on August 24, 2020, 12:51:39 PM

Thanks for the enlightenment Vietnamka. So below is what we have to go on. This is as far as we get with the present Authorities or Government in Russia  !  ? 


[[  The study of the case materials revealed that the most likely reason for the death of the hikers could be a confluence of adverse circumstances and the violation of safety rules in difficult conditions of mountainous terrain (temperatures ranging from -30 to -35°C, a snowstorm with a wind speed of 25-35 m/sec., darkness and the location of the tent on a steep slope). Panic among the people could have occurred due to an avalanche and snow falling on the tent. The death of all nine people occurred from frostbite and injuries caused by falling from height. There is no data supporting the presence of man-made factors associated with the death of the hikers in the case. The case materials indicate that the death of the people from an attack by unknown persons, animals or conflicts within the group were ruled out.
Given the above, there are no grounds for resuming the preliminary investigation.  ]]

Wasn't it announced early on that only the avalanche and related natural causes theories would be examined? In other words: No military, murder/robbery, Yeti, UFO, etc., would be considered?

That's not satisfactory at all. I happen to agree with the conclusion that it was some kind of real or perceived avalanche with fall or snow collapse injuries/deaths later on. But a real investigation should be open to all possibilities before starting.

Not a good investigation in my opinion.

P.S. And didn't Josh Gates' "Expedition Unknown" cable show uncover evidence that Russian authorities knew just days after the tragedy happened that the hikers were dead? There was supposedly a Russian document that showed this.



It appears that the Authorities have used the case materials as well as onsite investigations to reach their decision. A decision which at the moment appears to be final. 
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Chris on September 09, 2020, 03:10:14 AM
  • So experienced alpine hikers ran from an avalanche down the fall line instead of traversing sideways. Surely if an avalanche could make enough noise, it would leave a rubble field to be identified 4 weeks later?
  • Two well dressed members with a flashlight didn't return to collect clothing, although extreme cold was now the enemy.
  • The curious and different injuries to Zinaida, Igor, Rustem are simply dismissed with - "Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova, one after another, began to climb back along the slope, but due to overcooling the felt helpless and fell to the ground.". Rustem suffered head trauma and internal bleeding? Zinaida's face is reported in the autopsy as abrasions but the morgue photos challenge this (imo)?
  • Tent found covered in firn snow.
  • No explanation is offered for YuriK's leg.
  • The overall lack of frostbite in extreme cold is ignored.
  • The ravine 4's injuries were due to a fall of 3m!!
  • Footsteps in wet snow - ignored.
  • Reports of orange snow - ignored.
  • Purple glow on clothing - ignored.
  • Two bodies were stripped of clothing but a number of burnt pieces of clothing were discarded - ignored.
  • Nicolai found with his gloves in his pocket - ignored.
  • Strange photos - ignored.
  • Strange but similar marks on Igor, YuriK and possibly YuriD - ignored.
  • Okishev's and Ivanov's statement that they were ordered to front a coverup and cooperate with confiscation of evidence - ignored.
  • Case shutdown on discovery of last bodies and a request for a summer site inspection refused - ignored.
Not exactly a comprehensive explanation of the evidence!

Excellent synopsis Nigel - excellent points- well spoken indeed
As usual you’re analytical mind defines you Sir

Mr. Hoosiergose, you'll have to excuse me, but this is not analytics, but set of small quasi-intellectual words involved primarily in collection of fabrications, gossip and rumors.
If you want, I can make detailed analysis of all these insinuations.
I have already stopped communicating with this mister because he is not even able understand the simplest physical and mathematical examples that disprove his claims. This is not my level of discussion, and I have no desire or intention of going down to his level.

Hi Everybody!
First of all, thank you for this forum and for all it´s wonderful discussions. I read here and on dyatlovpass.com since a long time. But it is only now, that I registered. The reason for me to register was the quoted statements above and the possible misunderstanding which lies therein. There is some confusion when people from Russia and native English speakers communicate. I am from Germany and know that there can be a lot of misunderstandings, because of a very different use of words. I am quasi in the middle of both worlds. An example is "Wedding General". I immediately understood what WAB meant with it while the english speakers didn't. But I also see, that WAB did understand Nigels list the wrong way! WAB, please take it from me, Nigels list is not a list of HIS claims. The opposite is true. It is a summary of doubious claims by the new investigation and he questions them in an ironical way. It is western irony! Please read the list as Nigels list of things the report has ignored. Then you will understand.

I will probably not contibute to the discussion much more. Please know, that I enjoy every word I read on this forum and on the main site on a stuff I am thinking about since I first heard about Dyatlov Pass Incident years ago. I have not yet found my own questions answered in a satisfying way like most of you.

My sencere regards to all of you and please keep up your discussion.

Chris
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Nigel Evans on September 09, 2020, 04:43:51 AM
@Chris - good to hear you're enjoying the discussion.
Regards
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Nigel Evans on November 11, 2020, 02:27:20 AM
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8521931/New-twist-Soviet-mystery-families-dead-hikers-reject-Russias-explanation-1959-incident.html
Title: New Press Conference
Post by: Monty on November 11, 2020, 01:37:16 PM
Nigel - I didn't have you down as a Daily Mail reader....
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Nigel Evans on November 12, 2020, 09:16:56 AM
Nigel - I didn't have you down as a Daily Mail reader....
Google found it for me, it's less fussy.  kewl1
Title: New Press Conference
Post by: Monty on November 12, 2020, 10:08:20 AM
It's always an interesting thought when you read the visibility was X metres - if it was that bad and they really wanted to return to the tent why not follow their own tracks.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Nigel Evans on November 12, 2020, 11:53:10 PM
It's always an interesting thought when you read the visibility was X metres - if it was that bad and they really wanted to return to the tent why not follow their own tracks.


Snow depth could permit descending but rule out ascending.
Title: New Press Conference
Post by: Monty on November 13, 2020, 12:50:06 PM
Do you think they left the tent with the intention of ending up where they did; or left and ended up where they did by chance Nigel?
The large cedar being the staging point.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: RidgeWatcher on November 18, 2020, 12:04:17 PM
Hi Monty,

Monty, "Do you think they left the tent with the intention of ending up where they did; or left and ended up where they did by chance Nigel?
The large cedar being the staging point".

1) They all left the tent area without adequate clothing.
2) The left, most likely, a lighted torch/flashlight on the roof of the tent
3) They left with the bits of food found on the tent floor.
4) They left the ice pick/shovel at the tent area, knowing they would need this down below.

This all portends to a lack of planning, they didn't have time to think about taking anything that might keep them alive a little longer wherever they were going. I would think they had no idea where they were going, only that they were going downhill and downwind towards the tree line in the Lozva Valley.

If there was a confrontation of sorts back around Vizhay, then the Dyatlov hikers would probably recognize the attackers voices and even their faces at the tent area. Maybe the attackers just yelled at them to leave the tent immediately and run. Maybe the attackers didn't shoot at the tent or the hikers but maybe they shot into the night sky to rush the group out of and away from the tent. I wonder if the searchers in May 1959 who were looking for the ravine hikers went back up the hill to look for any spent bullets or cartridges around the perimeter of the tent area?

I would say that the hikers had no idea where they were going on immediate orders to abandon their tent and life sustaining shelter.
Title: New Press Conference
Post by: Monty on November 18, 2020, 12:19:40 PM
My original belief and theory is as you describe, but the more I read the WAB and/or Holmgren theory the more I start to waiver. The katabatic theory is stubbornly solid. It hinges i think on whether the cedar was stumbled upon by chance or a pre-arranged rdv. Thanks Ridgewatcher, for your insight
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on November 19, 2020, 05:05:23 PM
It's always an interesting thought when you read the visibility was X metres - if it was that bad and they really wanted to return to the tent why not follow their own tracks.

But what is x metres  ?  We dont know what the visibility was or even if it was snowing at the time that they left the Tent. And we dont know what the depth of the snow was when they left the Tent.
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: Monty on November 20, 2020, 11:17:39 AM
Hi Sarapuk - the X was within the article. They quoted 16 metres and I wondered how it could be so accurate. My thoughts were not with the visibility per say, but the concept of thinking it was better to go down than up. At least going up they could follow their tracks even if visibility was X - X being whatever you want it to be. Thanks
Title: Re: New Press Conference
Post by: sarapuk on November 23, 2020, 05:28:54 PM
Hi Sarapuk - the X was within the article. They quoted 16 metres and I wondered how it could be so accurate. My thoughts were not with the visibility per say, but the concept of thinking it was better to go down than up. At least going up they could follow their tracks even if visibility was X - X being whatever you want it to be. Thanks

Yeah its a tricky one like so many of the issues in this mystery. I suppose that if someone or something is having a go at them then they could be escaping and panicking.