August 07, 2022, 09:57:49 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Did the Mansi have ritual brotherhoods ?  (Read 174 times)

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June 15, 2022, 10:39:29 PM
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Charles


On this drawing, we can see at the top and right a scene which could be interpreted as cultual or ritual society :



The Mansi seem to wear sable hanging at their belts. An ancient Greece, there were such societies, called" thiasos". People belonged to a ritual society, and they had to wear a fawn skin when performing the Bacchic ritual. This practice is very archaic, it is depicted at the neolithic site of Catalhoyuk :



The attendees wear a spotted skin. And also in mesoamerica, and today as well, the members of ritual brotherhoods wear skins of young lamas:



I wonder if there could have been of a ritual-hunting brotherhood of young Mansi men in the area, or was the drawing only depicting a ritual to have luck and success at hunting sable...

And also if there could have been a gang of thieves obeying to Russian prison culture (Bratva, War of the suka, Сучья война) dedicated to smuggling (guns, gold nuggets, sable skins, alcohol, cristal and gems, anything)... At the end of the war of the suka (1945-1956), the suka won over the old organisation of thieves that would have never worked with the authorities... they had a market to dispose of the contraband goods.

About hierarchy in Ivdel and District 41 :

KRASNOBAEV V.A.
Occupation: Chief of preparatory work in 8th forestry district.
Lived in Ivdel.
Criminal record: conviction under art. 162 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR in 1943 to 5 years in labor camp (note: grand larceny at his workplace)

RYAZHNEV Georgy Ivanovich
Head of the 1st forest area of ​​the energy forestry plant;
Lived in the 41st quarter.
According to unconfirmed information: he was convicted while serving in the Far East. he served his term in Ivdellag, where he remained to live and work after his release. In UD passes, as "not judged." Documents are known according to which in 1945 he was a candidate or a member of the CPSU (b), although according to the protocols of 1959 he is listed as non-partisan. It is possible that by 1959 he was expelled from the party.

VENEDIKTOV Evgeny Petrovich
Lived in District 41
Foreman of the forest management site (41 quarter)
Previously studied (but did not graduate) at the Moscow Forestry Institute.

VALYAKYAVICHUS (Uncle Slava)
Driver of the second forest area of the 8th lagging division
The conviction is judged in 1947 under art. 107 of the Criminal Code of the Lithuanian SSR for 10 years ITL, a conviction in 1953 verdict is canceled. (6 years)

All beautiful people, we can say... And we have to remember that Valyakyavicus and Venediktov left District 41 in March long before the remaining hikers were found: the first resigned and the second was dismissed...

« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 09:59:31 PM by Charles »
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
 

June 18, 2022, 06:19:12 PM
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Manti


So Uncle Slava was Lithuanian?

In the diaries of several Dyatlov group members, you can see a collection of Mansi words from that time. I always assumed Uncle Slava taught them these words. But it seems unlikely now... Did they meet a Mansi at 2nd North? They mention nobody was there. Did they learn Mansi words from someone in District 41?
 

June 18, 2022, 11:08:47 PM
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Charles


Hello Manti

So Uncle Slava was Lithuanian?

He was convicted to a gulag sentence, released after Stalin's death, and stay in the area. This tells us how deeply destructive was the gulag, many could not go back to their previous lives.

In the diaries of several Dyatlov group members, you can see a collection of Mansi words from that time. I always assumed Uncle Slava taught them these words. But it seems unlikely now... Did they meet a Mansi at 2nd North? They mention nobody was there. Did they learn Mansi words from someone in District 41?

In testimonies, it is said that Mansi didn't come often at District 41. And the hikers wrote that they learned Mansi word from "the guys", that is to say from the ones posing on the stairs on Frame N°20 of Slobodin's camera. Some of these guys were perfectly fluent in Mansi and they learned the language when going to Mansi houses and interacting with Mansi in the Taiga.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 04:01:53 AM by Charles »
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.