March 29, 2024, 03:03:43 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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General Discussion / Re: Avalanche theory
« Last post by WinterLeia on March 28, 2024, 09:54:15 PM »
It sounds extremely strange to me to believe in a theory because there’s little to no proof it happened three weeks after it happened, especially because you would find the same exact thing if an avalanche didn’t happen. The avalanche theory benefits from a hallmark of conspiracy theories. It’s impossible to prove a negative. So what they’re doing is a strawman’s argument. Short and succinctly, it’s: “You can’t prove it didn’t happen. Therefore, it did.”

Regarding their argument, though, they are using the general topography of the area, the weather, and the snow accumulation to argue a very localized event, whereupon the stepped geography that they highlight in their study and the nature of the type of avalanche that it was, indicates that characteristics in the immediate vicinity of any spot can have differing probabilities of a possible avalanche (or whatever you want to call it), because we’re not talking about traditional avalanches and it isn’t the Alps. The slope is still not steep enough and the snow accumulation not great enough that you can be looking for causes of an avalanche much farther away from where it happened. If that was the case, then there would definitely be more evidence of an avalanche three weeks after it happened.

They finally do broach the specifics in their rebuttal by stating that their theory is not the final word because the slab would have been softer, the slope not as steep, it was not undercut from below, and the trigger was different. But then they end it by saying that the area is avalanche prone. Except, of course, that nobody was arguing about the general area, and their remarks about the specific vicinity are extremely important and possibly very detrimental to their theory, considering it’s already skating along the edge of barely possible.
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General Discussion / Re: Expedition to Dyatlov Pass thoughts.
« Last post by amashilu on March 28, 2024, 06:46:02 AM »
Excellent questions, Glenn.
I have copied your post to the "Winter 2025 Expedition" under the subject heading "Expeditions to the Dyatlov Pass" also.
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General Discussion / Re: Walking sticks
« Last post by Ziljoe on March 28, 2024, 05:10:29 AM »
I occasionally use adjustable walking sticks, they do help acceding and descending but not really necessary. Can help with bad knees fitness etc. The use of two sticks is for pushing off to get forward motion from the upper body , I have used one stick for balance and a then tent pole.

I would suspect that even if the hikers were trying to regain the tent , then the cold would have already compromised their hand dexterity. For example, not being able to hold a stick and if they could, then their hands would be exposed to wind chill making things worse.

It would seem from other deaths in similar circumstances of cold exposure that people drop many items and usually end up crawling to where they eventually give up. They may have taken a branch but dropped it exiting the tree line.

From reading the statements of the searcher's  and research videos , there does seem to be areas that the hikers would have sunk into deep snow at the ravine coming down from the slope.
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General Discussion / Re: Walking sticks
« Last post by Axelrod on March 28, 2024, 01:43:48 AM »
you probably mean such things?

In 65 years, you are probably the first person who asked about this... When I was in Kislovodsk and Pyatigorsk, I often saw people (usually 60+) walking in the park with Nordic walking poles. I think it's such a fashion. Because I saw 20+ people with such sticks.

It is very strange to me that people use 2 sticks. 1 stick is enough.

When I went to the mountains, sometimes it was easier and faster for me to go down. when there is a stick in your hand. The second stick is extra. You don't need a stick to climb. When you go down, you leave the stick right where it is no longer needed. Local residents probably take them upstairs every time so as not to have to look for a stick at the top of mountain.


(Slobodin and Kolmogorova)

вы наверное подразумеваете такие штуки?

За 65 лет вы наверное первый    человек, который про это спросил... Когда я был в Кисловодске и Пятигорске, я часто видел, как люди (обычно 60+) ходят в парке с палками для скандинавской ходьбы. Я думаю, что это такая мода. Потому что я видел людей 20+ с такими палками.

Для меня и очень странно, что люди используют 2 палки. Достаточно 1 палки.

Я когда ходил в горы, мне иногда было легче спускаться и быстрее. когда в руке есть палка. Вторая палка лишняя. Для подъёма палка не нужна. Когда спускаешься вниз, то ты оставляешь палку сразу там, где она становится не нужна. Местные жители наверное потом каждый раз берут их наверх, чтобы не искать потом палку наверху каждый раз.
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General Discussion / Walking sticks
« Last post by GlennM on March 27, 2024, 06:54:21 PM »
I can understand how the hikers could get driven from the tent with the wind at their backs all the way to the woods. I can concieve them doing this without the use of ski poles. I have a much harder time imagining how anyone could make it uphill from the cedar to the tent, in snow and possibly in a head wind without either a ski pole or two. If no pole, then surely a stout branch would be essential for the climb.

Nobody noted the hikers who returned to the tent having walking sticks. That is odd. Too, since ice was documented where Rustem lay, we must assume he was alive when he fell. This rules out posing corpses and all that business.

I understand the paradoxical undressing, but they didn't. So I don't buy they threw their ski poles or branches away either. I can't figure it out.
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General Discussion / Expedition to Dyatlov Pass thoughts.
« Last post by GlennM on March 27, 2024, 06:27:03 PM »
I think the forum would enjoy knowing what particular objectives are on the list for the next expedition. I think the forum would love to weigh in on making suggestions for objectives.

For me, an expedition searching for physical artifacts makes the most sense. Next, an exercise in measuring distances against time would be helpful in order to rule in or rule out possibilities. Third, if any Mansi lore has developed around the event, it is worth noting and reporting.
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General Discussion / Re: A blast from the sky
« Last post by GlennM on March 26, 2024, 06:48:24 PM »
Do any of us feel that this explains anything? No debris, no chemical burns, no radioactive contamination, no,audible explosion recoded in Vizhay, nothing! This is a distraction I fear.
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General Discussion / Re: Avalanche theory
« Last post by gunmat on March 26, 2024, 05:42:21 PM »
I will comment on this, surely, in full extent. When I get the time.Seems nobody here have a real understanding of avalanche. Be my guest when I comment on this. The lecture  will be gratis. What G&P has published is two publications, talking about very old knowledge about avalanche, as if it was a "new Scientific" theory. The main part of their theory is something I learnee very well 30 years ago when I was working with a construction to protect housing areas against avalanches. It is not science, but very old knowledge based on observations, not on fancy mathematic equations. The only  new in their publications is a mathematic argument claiming an avalanche could be released. But even the mathematic arguments are operated with variables that are unstable.So both their publications are for educational purposes, nothing else. They have nothing to do with the happening in 1959. Stay tuned, atleast for 14 days, I have other things to do.
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