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11

General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by WinterLeia on Today at 04:01:54 AM »

I should probably clarify something here. Ziljoe asked for evidence of outsiders, not whether outsiders were responsible for what happened to the hikers. I don’t think one necessarily equals the other. There are reasons why someone might want to keep quiet about what they saw or experienced, even if they didn’t do anything wrong, if nothing else, just not to bring the attention of the authorities down on themselves or their families, especially if they knew it would not help the hikers anyway, or if they came across the tent, had no idea what happened, and then continued on their way. That may sound selfish. But it is not uncommon for people to go out of their way to avoid being even peripherally attached to such a horrible event.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Teddy on May 13, 2024, 10:05:45 PM »

The tree has been on the ground for 65 years, it is rotten, and it is covered with moss. But you can still see a whole chunk missing, edges parallel.
https://dyatlovpass.com/dead-cedar

There are so many things around the bodies that are arguable left by the dying.
It is one thing to argue, and another to prove it.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by GlennM on May 13, 2024, 09:24:12 PM »

I am going back to Ziljoe's original post and interpreting it differently. I am going to use Teddy's theory as a springboard. Teddy argues that after the treefall incident, the tent was deliberately moved a mile up the slope irregardless of where the bodies lay. I interpret Ziljoe's original post to ask if there is any verifiable evidence of human presence/ tampering with the scene prior to the discovery of the tent on 1079? After all,  the tent can not move itself and the hikers were in no condition to move it. Everybody brings something into a crime scene and takes something away. As an example, if a tree fell on the tent, certainly there would be cut marks on the tree where the conspirators freed the tent.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Teddy on May 13, 2024, 07:52:35 AM »

About the Unknown diary my personal opinion is that Zolotaryov wrote it because only he could confuse Doroshenko with Kolevatov.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Teddy on May 13, 2024, 07:45:26 AM »

I have always been curious about this photo as mentioned at Dyatlovpass-com.

https://dyatlovpass.com/loose-photos

There is nothing mysterious about this photo. Koskin is a bigger enigma if you ask me. Abandoning the case for 10 years and coming back. He never said why and when asked questions during these 10 years (including about this photo, why did he listed it as belonging to the Dyatlov group), he always said that he doesn't want anything to do with the case. And now he wants to fill Kuntsevich's shoes.
The girl is Lyudmila Kotelnikova. You can see her with Doroshenko as a leader in 1957 Middle Ural trek.



She was in a meeting just this last Wednesday, May 8, and here is a post the Russian social media (VK.com)

An amazing meeting took place on May 8 at the Museum of History of Yekaterinburg. One of the spectators, sitting modestly in the hall, personally knew well and was friends with all the hikers from Dyatlov’s group!!! As Lyudmila Petrovna Molchalina (Kotelnikova) said, she started studying in the radio faculty of UPI in 1955. She was interested in hiking her whole life and joined the sport tourism club at the university. She knew in person all the members from the Dyatlov group, and went on hikes with Yuri Doroshenko, Lyuda Dubinina, and Yuri Yudin. After the performance (at the meeting on May 8, 2024), she talked for a long time about the guys from the Dyatlov group. The young audience had just read the group’s diaries and now they were talking to a person who remembers all the authors of these diaries. Such a connection between generations, unexpected, but very real! Below is a photo of Lyudmila Petrovna and a list of participants in the trek to the Urals under the leadership of Yuri Doroshenko, what a great meeting!


 

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Ziljoe on May 13, 2024, 07:25:42 AM »

I don’t really like to introduce rabbit holes into a discussion. But in the spirit of an open mind I will say that the Unknown Diary has always bothered me. I can’t shake the feeling that it sounds like it was written by a female, even though I know it wasn’t written by Zina or Luda. But I’ve wondered if someone else thought the same thing and that’s why it was labeled as Zina’s diary. And, I mean, it just has an odd feeling to it all around, like it doesn’t jive with the others. But it’s just a feeling. There’s too many violations of Occam’s Razor for me to put too much stock into that without further proof. It’s the most interesting diary to read, though, in my opinion. Whoever it was had a very unique perspective and way of describing things. I wish they had written more entries.

Hi winterleia.

I had another read of it. It is strange that there are so few entries. When I use the Russian translation and then translate on my device I get slightly different results.

It would seem they were slightly lost on the 30th of January, the Mansi paths and signs were confusing to them. When I say lost, I mean lost within the trees and the internal trails created by Mansi. This I would say fits with some of the photos, especially the one with Zolotaryov, Doroshenko and Dyatlov. I think this is a photo taken with humour and ties in with the diary. They are obviously in the forest, probably followed the wrong trail and Dyatlov is trying to find the best direction.

This diary also mentions the state of the tent holes which seem excessive.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Ziljoe on May 13, 2024, 07:08:29 AM »

Hi Arjan....

I too have been looking for the comment about long ski's. It is somewhere and that one of the group preferred not to use ski boots. Not that I think it would add much.

I think there's a problem with copying or over analysing the photos from the internet. Many photos have already been enhanced, not to cover things up but to try and tidy the images.

I have seen some of the sites you mention , they relate to the length of things with perspective of trees , bushes and skis etc .
Some put interesting arguments forward at times.

It would be good to source something though.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by WinterLeia on May 13, 2024, 06:57:54 AM »

Yes, that does make it possible that the photos could have been doctored. But you can’t take a picture that doesn’t show any evidence of being doctored and prove it was doctored. The only way it could be proven is to authenticate the film itself, the negatives or whatever they’re called, and I don’t know if that’s ever been done or if the rolls of film are even still available.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Arjan on May 13, 2024, 06:30:04 AM »

Dear Winterleia, and all other members.

My local photographer - now around 65 years old - says that he can do exactly the same with old style analogue photo's in the dark room, as photoshop allows.
It will take him far more time and effort.

After screening many prints from the films found by the first search party using:
- https://29a.ch/photo-forensics/#forensic-magnifier
I have come to the conclusion that 'I have to take into account that the prints have been composed at a later moment'

I will show the analysis of two photos (available at dyatlovpass.com )
 


The photo above, shows Yuri Yudin on a place outside the tour.
The magnification of the change between 'the coat, trousers, and background' is visible in the rectangle: it appears sound and sharp.



The photo above is one of the film found by the first search party.
The changes from jack and background is blurred by a gray line of 3 picksels wide; as far as I know on all photos these changes are 3-4 pics white or gray.

This surrounding of objects is user for:
- highlighting objects from the background or
- camouflaging that object have been added.

When all or nearly all objects are blurred by a grey/white line around, the suspicion arises, that the photos are mere composition from other source material.

A few Russian bloggers are far more outspoken about the value of photo for evidence to solve the case.
I will not share these links, because my browser indicates that these links are not safe nowadays due to expired SSH-key.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by WinterLeia on May 12, 2024, 09:37:26 PM »

I don’t really like to introduce rabbit holes into a discussion. But in the spirit of an open mind I will say that the Unknown Diary has always bothered me. I can’t shake the feeling that it sounds like it was written by a female, even though I know it wasn’t written by Zina or Luda. But I’ve wondered if someone else thought the same thing and that’s why it was labeled as Zina’s diary. And, I mean, it just has an odd feeling to it all around, like it doesn’t jive with the others. But it’s just a feeling. There’s too many violations of Occam’s Razor for me to put too much stock into that without further proof. It’s the most interesting diary to read, though, in my opinion. Whoever it was had a very unique perspective and way of describing things. I wish they had written more entries.