Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: ikemitsu on November 24, 2018, 09:48:26 AM
-
Lebedev's witness testimony (sheet 315) of the damaged ski pole found in the tent is pretty obscure in English. Can anyone give a better translation from Russian? I'm referring to this single sentence: "In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made." In Russian I think it's "В палатке мы обнаружили лыжную палку от которой был отрезан верхний конец по аккуратному концевому надрезу и еще один надрез был сделан." In different sources the pole is sometimes said to be cut into pieces even, but I can't quite believe that. Perhaps the ski pole was just broken while in use, like the strap getting loose, and one of the tourists had started to fix it. Nothing mysterious there. Is Lebedev the only source?
-
Welp,. it was outside of the tent and it was purposely broken to make an anchoring point for TWO corners of the tent. See below
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-362-369?rbid=17743
On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.
This is the infamous "tactical tripod" that acording to the Ball Lightening theory was used to...... capture images that dont exist. nea1
(https://image.ibb.co/dyTB5y/srgjysdry2.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/c4g9sd/H-lka.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/gdAiky/dtyjdty2.jpg)
-
Lebedev's witness testimony (sheet 315) of the damaged ski pole found in the tent is pretty obscure in English. Can anyone give a better translation from Russian? I'm referring to this single sentence: "In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made." In Russian I think it's "В палатке мы обнаружили лыжную палку от которой был отрезан верхний конец по аккуратному концевому надрезу и еще один надрез был сделан." In different sources the pole is sometimes said to be cut into pieces even, but I can't quite believe that. Perhaps the ski pole was just broken while in use, like the strap getting loose, and one of the tourists had started to fix it. Nothing mysterious there. Is Lebedev the only source?
If you not against I will try to explain it.
1.Anybody from travellers of such level would not began to cut a ski stick in the travel middle under no circumstances. Because then was very big probability of its preschedule end. There were attempts of repair of such sticks, but they were unsuccessful in their big part. It from practice of the same travel to Russia for many tens years.
2.I so think that participants of search in an error have accepted a stick which was inserted into a backpack contour for a piece of a ski stick. At that time in the USSR there was in the use a backpack of a design of climber Vitaly Abalakov. Here it is in photos:
(https://b.radikal.ru/b17/1811/d0/686e03ddb224t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b17/1811/d0/686e03ddb224.jpg)
Kind from outer side
(https://c.radikal.ru/c02/1811/67/e3ab69d87ce1t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c02/1811/67/e3ab69d87ce1.jpg)
Kind from a back
For this purpose that a backpack would be to bear more conveniently, under straps did an insert in the form of a short stick (~ 40 … 50 sm or 15 … 20 inches). It is how it is visible on bottom to a photo.
(https://b.radikal.ru/b30/1811/a3/05fcd3521aect.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b30/1811/a3/05fcd3521aec.jpg)
It was necessary to put a stick under special loops from a tape (as there is a red line) which have been sewn to a backpack (it there is a usual design of a backpack by Abalakov) and to lift backpack straps over this stick (as it is drawn in the form of yellow arrows).
All participants of Dyatlov group had backpacks of design by Abalakov.
These sticks cut out from usual dry trees and they looked like, which was very similar to a material from ski sticks. Not all participants of searches knew it. Most possibly this reception was used by Simeon Zolotaryov who was the guide and knew it because worked in mountains of Altay earlier.
I cannot write here often but if it is necessary, I can explain later, but in more details as such design from the point of view of mechanics worked.
-
........................
This is the infamous "tactical tripod" that acording to the Ball Lightening theory was used to...... capture images that dont exist. nea1
..........................
You speak not about that subject.
ikemitsu asked about a ski stick which has been found inside. Please attentively read the reference which has resulted ikemitsu.
-
Oh it was on topic alright.
You dont break a ski-pole for a pack brace..... there are plenty of sticks in the woods for that.
-
I think WAB is saying that the stick was a part of the rucksac's construction and had perhaps been removed to use the bag as a pillow. Bamboo would be lighter than a piece of wood.
-
I would have thought that all the rucksacs would have had any wooden frames ready fitted. The wooden frame as long been used in expeditions going back in history.
-
There was only ONE ski pole broken, and you can clearly see it in the pictures.
-
There was only ONE ski pole broken, and you can clearly see it in the pictures.
If I could trouble you to point out the picture? I'm not aware of it. I thought the broken pole was inside the tent?
-
"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made."
In the tent...... as in, driven through the corner of the tent. wink1
(https://i.ibb.co/109NZpj/srgjysdry2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x2Mbhcd)
was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made
It was cut twice.....
(https://image.ibb.co/gdAiky/dtyjdty2.jpg)
Here are all 3 parts shown together after removal, note they were slightly separated from the rest of the tents contents.
(https://image.ibb.co/c4g9sd/H-lka.jpg)
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-362-369?rbid=17743
Quote
On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.
-
I don't see anything conclusive in those red rings. Imo it's equally possible that WAB is correct. Or maybe this was some bespoke tent construction?
Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete?
-
DISCOVERY PROTOCOL OF HIKERS CAMP SITE
Sheet 2
PROTOCOL
camp site found of Igor Dyatlov group
Camp site consists of a pad of flattened snow, on the bottom are stacked 8 pairs of skis (for tent support and insulation, red). Tent is stretched on ski poles and fixed with ropes, at the bottom of the tent 9 backpacks were discovered with various personal items, jackets, rain coats, 9 pairs of shoes.
-
E. P. MASLENNIKOV WITNESS TESTIMONY
Sheet 70
PROTOCOL
witness testimony
28.2.59 Dyatlov group tent was examined. Tent inspection showed that almost all personal belongings of the members, as well as the university equipment was present.
The tent was 150 m from the spur ridge (900 m) of height "1079". The tent was stretched out on skis and poles, hammered into the snow, its entrance facing the south side and on that side extensions were intact, and the north side stretching was disrupted and therefore the entire second half of the tent was covered with snow. The snow was not much, only drifted by the blizzards in the period of February. Items found in the tent: ice ax, a spare pair of ski, 10-15 m from the tent were found sneakers, socks and Dyatlov fur jacket. Also a storm jacket. On top of the tent was laying Chinese flashlight turned on (but unlit). With the tent was mostly engaged Brusnitsyn, who can describe how the items were found better than me. Considering that prosecutor Tempalov and sufficient number of people were at the tent I went down to the search base camp, as it was necessary to organize the search of the remaining hikers.
In Dyatlov tent there were 9 backpacks, 10 pairs of skis, of which 9 pairs under the bottom of the tent, 8 pairs of shoes, 3,5 pairs of felt boots (7 pcs.), several padded jackets, and other property. When the inspection was over we dragged the tent to the helipad at a distance of 600-700.
-
BRUSNITSYN WITNESS TESTIMONY
Sheet 367
Protocol
Witness testimony
Sheet 367
- 6 -
Under the tent were laid 8 pairs of skis with their fasteners facing down. Thanks to the dense snow cover, the tent was installed very firmly. Everything is covered with already clammy snow, except for the southern edge, fortified on a ski pole and tied to a pair of skis. No stick was found under the northern edge there was no pole.
Snow was chosen with the help of skis and ski poles. Ten people worked without any system. In most cases things everything was pulled out directly from under the snow, so it's very difficult to determine where and how each thing was.
First they took out several blankets, frozen in a ball, then buckets, a stove, 2-3 sacks of rusks, boots, etc. The things in the tent were arranged in the following order. At the bottom were laid rucksacks. Then 2-3 blankets. Next were the quilted jackets and personal belongings of the participants. Buckets, stove, ax, saw were lying at the entrance to the right. Here was part of the products: rusks, sugar, condensed milk, open bag with a loin. The rest of the products were in the far right corner. Most of the shoes lying were placed on the left side of the tent. Two pairs - right in the middle. The rest of the things were in disarray in the tent.
Apparently the group was in the final stage of dressing and preparing for the night at the time of the incident. In the near to te entrance part of the tent were found a few crusts from the loin. There are rusks scattered all over the tent.
Sheet 368
- 7 -
On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.
-
And so to the witness statement of V. I. TEMPALOV the prosecutor of the city of Ivdel.
The witness statements do not mention the number of SKI POLES found or their condition.
WITNESS TESTIMONY
Sheet 310
The tent was stretched on skis and sticks, hammered in the snow, its entrance was turned to the south, and on this side the stretches were intact, and the stretches of the tent on the north side were torn off and the whole second half of the tent was covered with snow. The tent had an ice ax, an extra pair of skis. On the tent was a Chinese lantern in the unlit state. 9 backpacks, 9 pairs of skis were found in the tent, all of them were under the tent floor, 8 pairs of boots, 3.5 pairs of boots, quilted jackets and many biscuits, half a sack of sugar, a large number of concentrates, cereals, soups, etc. , cocoa, axes, saw, cameras, students diaries, documents and money. At first glance, the tent was covered with snow. It was installed on a platform leveled by the students dug out. A tent with a windy side was torn in the middle part. The bottom of the tent was covered with padded jackets, backpacks and personal belongings of students. In the right corner, near the entrance there was a part of the products: cans of condensed milk, 100 grams of sliced fat, biscuits, sugar, a flask empty from alcohol or vodka, the smell was felt, just like a jar with a drink (poured?) Cooked cocoa was diluted with water and naturally froze, a large knife was found near the fat of a sliced me
-
I don't see anything conclusive in those red rings. Imo it's equally possible that WAB is correct. Or maybe this was some bespoke tent construction?
Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete?
What the hell are your talking about? IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK.
-
What the hell are your talking about? IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK.
Or you need some chill pills, we're not discussing anchoring points, we're discussing cut ski poles.
-
What the hell are your talking about? IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK.
Or you need some chill pills, we're not discussing anchoring points, we're discussing cut ski poles.
FYI, It was ONE pole.
........................... That was cut in two places making three parts AND USED AS ANCHORING DEVICES!
-
Oh it was on topic alright.
You dont break a ski-pole for a pack brace..... there are plenty of sticks in the woods for that.
I speak about same it as appears from my previous letter.
I meant that it not a stick for skis which have sawn, and such stick which have made specially and during earlier time.
Here I have made a special mockup what to show that I showed earlier.
At me was not near to a backpack designed by Abalakov, therefore I took the first which was.
(https://c.radikal.ru/c35/1811/55/d8e7aa630700t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c35/1811/55/d8e7aa630700.jpg)
It is that I think has been found in tent. It is made of other tree, instead of from a ski stick. The ruler has divisions in centimetres, with an inch scale I have no ruler close.
Cuts are made for this purpose that tapes on a backpack would not move to side.
(https://a.radikal.ru/a43/1811/10/ba47553904bbt.jpg) (https://a.radikal.ru/a43/1811/10/ba47553904bb.jpg)
It is such stick which is laid on a backpack, but is not inserted yet into place.
(https://b.radikal.ru/b30/1811/2d/53c2ed5249a6t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b30/1811/2d/53c2ed5249a6.jpg)
It is a fragment to place a stick under straps of a backpack and with the tape put on it (it is at the left where there is a tape lock)
-
I think WAB is saying that the stick was a part of the rucksac's construction and had perhaps been removed to use the bag as a pillow.
Yes, it is correctly.
Bamboo would be lighter than a piece of wood.
The bamboo cannot be cut a manual knife (almost impossible). It is easy for breaking on "joints". But it is not told anywhere that it was the bamboo which cut.
Ski sticks from a tree were at Lyudmila Dubinina. All other participants had ski sticks from a bamboo.
-
I would have thought that all the rucksacs would have had any wooden frames ready fitted. The wooden frame as long been used in expeditions going back in history.
At ancient Russian people it had the name «Poniaga (поняга)».
In Wiki there is article about « Poniaga » https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%B3%D0%B0 , but it only in Russian. It is possible to try to translate from google.
Its design was absolutely strongly differs from a ski stick.
In this case, we have no signs of that it would be available.
***************begin oftop********************* grin1
If mute to leave aside from conversation about Dyatlov team, I can tell that « Poniaga » it is a prototype of backpacks with a firm and volume skeleton which are now.
For maintenance of the first Soviet expedition to the Everest 1982 I took part in designing and manufacturing of some subjects of equipment for it. Together with department of the oxygen equipment of firm "R&D PE Zvezda " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPP_Zvezda , I was engaged in working out of oxygen masks and reducers for them. And as developed a special frame for transport of oxygen cylinders. This frame was development «Poniaga» as principle.
It used on that expedition and for transport of the sick climber. All can be seen it in a video film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbMv1G0vRHc . The fragment of this film begins during time 10:30 on the timer of this film.
Here is their screenshot it
(https://c.radikal.ru/c01/1811/46/d97c6198f635t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c01/1811/46/d97c6198f635.jpg)
It is the reference to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbMv1G0vRHc (time after 10:30 minutes)
On following photos this frame which is mine a copy as the author.
(https://c.radikal.ru/c35/1811/7e/b0c359e37284t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c35/1811/7e/b0c359e37284.jpg)
(https://c.radikal.ru/c06/1811/e9/98d4d33edbe3t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c06/1811/e9/98d4d33edbe3.jpg)
(https://d.radikal.ru/d34/1811/b9/7e8e0d46e523t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d34/1811/b9/7e8e0d46e523.jpg)
******************end oftop********************* whist1
-
There was only ONE ski pole broken, and you can clearly see it in the pictures.
That was in tent it was not impossible to see in that photo.
In papers from Tempalov, or Brusnitsin, or Maslennikov it was not said that the broken ski stick was outside of tent. There it was said that it have found into tent.
-
...........................................
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-362-369?rbid=17743
Quote
On top of all things lay a ski pole cut into several pieces, on which, apparently, the northern end of the tent was stretched. Render a ski pole unusable, especially when the group didn't have a spare, is possible only under special circumstances.
All that you have shown on these a photo, it were ski sticks which have not been cut. They have not been broken as. They were used by participants of search on a slope instead of search probes which then had not time to bring yet on this place.
To cut a ski stick for a tent prop it is not meaningful. The highest is greedy had length of 1 metre and 40 centimetres or 4,5 foots. It is very low height for tent. If it to cut off, there will be a height even more low.
-
Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete
Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.
-
...................................................
Everything that you have resulted as the citation does not concern that that we now discuss.
I very much regret … dunno1
-
What the hell are your talking about? IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK.
It is impossible to see on these a photo. They are different place and different time. Even on February, 27th participants of searches took and used ski sticks for search. Therefore it is impossible to count their quantity correctly.
-
........................... That was cut in two places making three parts AND USED AS ANCHORING DEVICES!
A section of pole one third of the complete length would not be of any use as an anchor in snow? The anchors you are ringing are complete poles imo. N.B. you've circled two end sections in the same photo that couldn't have come from one pole.
-
Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete
Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.
Hi, i'm asking this as a question, perhaps it translated badly = "Is it recorded that they only found 17 complete poles?".
-
What the hell are your talking about? IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SKI-POLE BEING USED AS ANCHORING POINTS FOR THE TENT, YOU EITHER NEED TO LAY OFF THE DRUGS, OR FIND SOME THAT WORK.
It is impossible to see on these a photo. They are different place and different time. Even on February, 27th participants of searches took and used ski sticks for search. Therefore it is impossible to count their quantity correctly.
But the quantity should be an even number?
-
Why should the quantity be an even number ! ?
-
Why should the quantity be an even number ! ?
Because of it was an odd number it would strongly suggest that a ski pole was sacrificed by the group? An even number otherwise.
-
Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete
Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.
Hi, i'm asking this as a question, perhaps it translated badly = "Is it recorded that they only found 17 complete poles?".
I think that to me was not displayed the question sign, and it is all that it was. Therefore I have asked my question. Probably, I have not paid attention to it, and the reason here not in translation from English.
-
Why should the quantity be an even number ! ?
Because of it was an odd number it would strongly suggest that a ski pole was sacrificed by the group? An even number otherwise.
But it cannot be judged on photos which we has to see. Because they are made already after participants of search have already spent manipulations with ski sticks.
In consequence papers it is not written down anywhere that they considered ski sticks and how many it was available when have found tent.
-
Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete
Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.
Hi, i'm asking this as a question, perhaps it translated badly = "Is it recorded that they only found 17 complete poles?".
I think that to me was not displayed the question sign, and it is all that it was. Therefore I have asked my question. Probably, I have not paid attention to it, and the reason here not in translation from English.
Understood.
-
Why should the quantity be an even number ! ?
Because of it was an odd number it would strongly suggest that a ski pole was sacrificed by the group? An even number otherwise.
But it cannot be judged on photos which we has to see. Because they are made already after participants of search have already spent manipulations with ski sticks.
In consequence papers it is not written down anywhere that they considered ski sticks and how many it was available when have found tent.
Agreed.
-
Thank you WAB. The backpack support stick sounds valid to me. It could explain "incisions" too. Maybe Zolotaryov indeed had this supportive stick. Also, I didn't know that you can't really cut bamboo. I thought all tourists had bamboo sticks, so one having wooden ones is new to me.
-
https://www.wikihow.com/Cut-Bamboo (https://www.wikihow.com/Cut-Bamboo)
-
So you need to cut bamboo diagonally not to split it? WAB's input is that you can't fix a bamboo ski pole on the go. If an avalanche fell on the tent or a lightning stroke the pole, the ski pole (if it was made from bamboo) wouldn't be neatly cut, so to speak, but splintered. From the witness accounts it appears that inside the tent there was a stick of some sort, assumed damaged, and assumed, maybe incorrectely, to be a ski pole. I don't know about broken poles outside the tent.
-
It seems a bit insulting to think nine hikers were too dumb to find a stick in the Siberian forest.
-
It seems a bit insulting to think nine hikers were too dumb to find a stick in the Siberian forest.
Sorry but who is suggesting this? Starting this thread, I only wanted to find some clarification to Lebedev's account about some damaged stick inside the tent. The Google Translated sentence is pretty unfathomable.
-
"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made
Show me where it says 'inside'................
Also, take note it SPECIFICALLY states 'ski stick'..... any and all references to some other 'stick' alluded to within this thread is misleading and unrelated.
'In' the outside corner of any tent there are loops for anchoring to the ground. If I handed you said anchoring device and told you to put it 'in' the tent..... would you toss it 'inside' the tent and call it a day?
Think people. In the tent as in..... 'In' the corner of the tent. These facts are not debatable given several testimonies and photographic evidence.
-
The official report from the criminal investigation states: The belongings inside were situated as follows: By the entrance was a furnace; baskets; water flasks, one of which was filled with alcohol; a saw; and an axe.Deeper inside were the cameras. Further back was a bag with maps and documents, Dyatlov’s camera, a can containing money, Kolmogorova’s diary and windbreakers belonging to Dyatlov and Kolevatov. In the corner was a bag of rusks and another bag containing breakfast cereal. Next to them was a pair of boots. The other six pairs of boots were at the opposite side of the tent. In the middle of the tent were three pairs of valenki and one single one. Next to the rusks there was a log taken from the place of the previous camp. Above all, there was a ski pole, scored at several places.
-
"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made
Show me where it says 'inside'................
Also, take note it SPECIFICALLY states 'ski stick'..... any and all references to some other 'stick' alluded to within this thread is misleading and unrelated.
'In' the outside corner of any tent there are loops for anchoring to the ground. If I handed you said anchoring device and told you to put it 'in' the tent..... would you toss it 'inside' the tent and call it a day?
Think people. In the tent as in..... 'In' the corner of the tent. These facts are not debatable given several testimonies and photographic evidence.
The thing is, I depend totally on the English translations. Plus I'm not a native English speaker and Google Translations are probably more challenging to me. To me "in the tent" means "inside the tent". But yeah, your explanation is noted. I've just never set up a tent in English, heh. The broken ski pole is serious evidence if it really was there, inside or outside the tent, for sure. I just don't know if I can include it. I've read Svetlana Oss's book that Nigel Evans quoted, so it has had an influence among others. I have it on page 48, different edition I guess, a paperback.
-
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 50-51). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
^^^^^^^^^^. Relies on an agenda driven book rather then the original testimonies from the original case files.
lol1 lol1
-
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 50-51). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.
^^^^^^^^^^. Relies on an agenda driven book rather then the original testimonies from the original case files.
lol1 lol1
She says - "The official report from the criminal investigation states", and she is Russian so presumably working from the Russian texts? lalala1 lalala1
-
Definition of 'scored' as used in this context.
A notch or incision, especially one that is made to keep a tally.
Besides, its a complete fabrication of false facts that does not exist in the case files. Burn the book and start reading the case files. whist1
-
Thank you WAB. The backpack support stick sounds valid to me. It could explain "incisions" too. Maybe Zolotaryov indeed had this supportive stick.
It is naturally. It is possible to think out very wound situations искуственно, but it is possible to explain all both more simple and natural circumstances.
Here everyone chooses that he wishes. Or explain that that was actually, or write the detective novel.
Also, I didn't know that you can't really cut bamboo.
I can cut bamboo, as any other person. I said only that it to make more difficultly, than a usual tree which grows in that place. And that they did not cut a bamboo stick, as well as what that another too. From those sticks which at them were.
That participants of search have found, they have accepted for a piece of a ski stick by mistake. Such errors under similar circumstances happens much. It is necessary to understand, what condition of psychology at young men in such circumstances was.
I thought all tourists had bamboo sticks, so one having wooden ones is new to me.
And there was in Dyatlov group. All from them had bamboo sticks. But at Dubinin was one steam which has been made of a tree. Therefore Brusnitsin and Lebedev have thought that it cut off from it. They did not know how many sticks from a tree was in group. Anywhere there is no mention that met the broken or cut off stick, except these mentions.
-
https://www.wikihow.com/Cut-Bamboo (https://www.wikihow.com/Cut-Bamboo)
thanks grin1
-
"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made
Show me where it says 'inside'................
It is very easy for making:
Vladimir Lebedev, Sheet from case # 316.
"В палатке было несколько пар валенок, кроме одного пары ботинок, почти вся верхняя одежда. В палатке мы обнаружили лыжную палку от которой был отрезан верхний конец по аккуратному концевому надрезу и еще один надрез был сделан. Это говорит о том, что видимо кто-то остался в палатке значительно позже других, может быть на сутки. Потому что человек от нечего делать не будет резать палку, которая еще может пригодиться."(с)
It is the text in Russian.
-----------------------------------
In tent there were some pairs of valenoks*, except one steams of the boots, almost all outer clothing. In tent we have found out a ski stick from which the top end on an accurate trailer cut has been cut off and one more cut has been made. It means that probably someone remained in tent considerably after others, can be for days. Because the person from nothing to do will not cut a stick, which else can be useful.
===============
It is my text translation to . If here is that that not clearly, please write what exactly is, I will try to pick up other words while translating.
And it is fragment of scanning of this sheet where Lebedev wrote by his hand
(https://a.radikal.ru/a19/1812/7d/24179274a870t.jpg) (https://a.radikal.ru/a19/1812/7d/24179274a870.jpg)
The word "in tent" is underlined specially.
*)valenok - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BA it is footwear made of felt.
**************************************
Besides, the same record is in a paper Vadim Brusnitsin, Sheet # 368
----------------------------------
"Поверх всех вещей лежала разрезанная на несколько кусков лыжная палка, на ней, повидимому был укреплен северный конек палатки. Решиться на порчу палки, учитывая то, что в группе не было запасных можно только при особых обстоятельствах."(c)
=======================
It is the text in Russian.
Over all things the ski stick cut on some pieces, on it lay, visible northern fad of tent has been strengthened. To dare at stick damage, considering that in group spare was not possible only at exceptional circumstances.
It is my text translation to Engish. If here is that that not clearly, please write what exactly is, I will try to pick up other words while translating.
(https://c.radikal.ru/c23/1812/bc/715f60327032t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c23/1812/bc/715f60327032.jpg)
And it is fragment of scanning of this sheet where Brusnitsin wrote his hand
The word "On top all things" is is underlined specially.
Semantics of Russian is that that some words do not speak, as it is clear on sense. Therefore expressions: "in tent" (c) "On top all things" (c) mean that it is a question that all occurs in tent exclusively. Specially about it do not speak, because it and so it is clear for any person which confidently speaks Russian.
Also, take note it SPECIFICALLY states 'ski stick'..... any and all references to some other 'stick' alluded to within this thread is misleading and unrelated.
It is his subjective perception. It is as they are similar as 2 boots.
'In' the outside corner of any tent there are loops for anchoring to the ground. If I handed you said anchoring device and told you to put it 'in' the tent..... would you toss it 'inside' the tent and call it a day?
Here it is not necessary to tell strangers of words. That told that Lebedev and Brusnitsin I (wrote) has resulted both the text, and their own manual the signature.
Think people. In the tent as in..... 'In' the corner of the tent. These facts are not debatable given several testimonies and photographic evidence.
It is not disputable. Both of them said that is in tent, instead of outside.
If there is what that misunderstandings in transfer I read and explain (and I show on a photo!) as it is in a source language.
Any photographic proofs of that it was from the outside is not present. If I am not right, you could not result them as the proofs?
That you resulted earlier, it is normal ski sticks which are deepened during snow and are inclined and only. But there is no which would be broken or cut off.
-
I can lay to write a bit later/
My apologies
-
I have a little more time now.
........................
The thing is, I depend totally on the English translations. Plus I'm not a native English speaker and Google Translations are probably more challenging to me. To me "in the tent" means "inside the tent". But yeah, your explanation is noted. I've just never set up a tent in English, heh.
And it is correct that “did not adjust tent in English” (c). Always it is necessary to do it “in the our language”. I always “adjusted tent in Russian”, therefore I can more correct judge that was in Dyatlov group. grin1
The broken ski pole is serious evidence if it really was there, inside or outside the tent, for sure. I just don't know if I can include it. I've read Svetlana Oss's book that Nigel Evans quoted, so it has had an influence among others. I have it on page 48, different edition I guess, a paperback.
I can tell precisely that you have correctly understood about that the cut off ski stick was inside. I have written it earlier bit.
-
She says - "The official report from the criminal investigation states", and she is Russian so presumably working from the Russian texts? lalala1 lalala1
In some paragraphs she writes correctly. But in where it does accents and shes resume, it in greater parts is not right. It is necessary to understand that it the journalist and takes a material from forums and publications. Approximately 20 % of correct thoughts and 80 % of free thoughts which are not available in this business there contain.
Here an example from she`s book:
(https://d.radikal.ru/d23/1812/f9/3457eda56830t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d23/1812/f9/3457eda56830.jpg)
It is how it represents this position.
And here that is actually in the same place:
(https://c.radikal.ru/c28/1812/b2/c9783fa906cbt.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c28/1812/b2/c9783fa906cb.gif)
There there is no cave, it has appeared only in Svetlana Oss's thoughts (its full surname is Osadchuk. She works in newspaper St. Petersburg Times). To lean in thoughts only against its book it from the big error. Unfortunately in English it is very little written on this theme by people who well know all details. Usually they work or the big experts in the industry, or teachers at universities, or practically do not know English in the necessary degree. About same of in Russian. Usually writers undertake it which describe events "moderately the perversity". So at us speak about not a diligent statement of the thoughts.
But the world is not compressed to level of distribution of English language. On this event there are many different articles in Russian. It is from primary basis for studying
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
PS. Mr. Nigel! I remember that I have a debt to write about FB, but I cannot write often and much now. I have not time to make much.
-
Definition of 'scored' as used in this context.
A notch or incision, especially one that is made to keep a tally.
Besides, its a complete fabrication of false facts that does not exist in the case files. Burn the book and start reading the case files. whist1
I have resulted all as it is in criminal case, and has resulted even scans original papers.
I hope that you will not deny it?
-
I have resulted all as it is in criminal case, and has resulted even scans original papers.
I hope that you will not deny it?
>>> Loose}{Cannon - are you going to deny it? whacky1 whacky1 whacky1 whacky1 whacky1
lol2 lol2 lol2 lol2 lol2
-
The word "in tent" is underlined specially
.
'Inside' is nowhere to be seen. whist1
Over all things the ski stick cut on some pieces, on it lay, visible northern fad of tent has been strengthened. To dare at stick damage, considering that in group spare was not possible only at exceptional circumstances.
thumb1
-
I have resulted all as it is in criminal case, and has resulted even scans original papers.
I hope that you will not deny it?
>>> Loose}{Cannon - are you going to deny it? whacky1 whacky1 whacky1 whacky1 whacky1
lol2 lol2 lol2 lol2 lol2
What exactly is there to 'deny'?
rolleyes1
-
What exactly is there to 'deny'?
rolleyes1
Your red circles.
-
All from them had bamboo sticks.
Incorrect.
-
The frustration I have with discussion on this site and in many other places, is that people enjoy speculation more than they enjoy carrying the burden of logic and rational thinking. Here are a few things we should just repeat.
A "ski pole" ("ski stick" in French) is a special tool to improve skiing by engaging the capacity of the upper limbs in the effort. When skis were invented, it became obvious to use sticks of a certain length to assist in propulsion. Now, the tools are highly refined and made out of special woods for a certain purpose.
It would be reasonable to destroy a ski stick only for the most powerful of needs. It would be foolish to cut up a ski stick to create a tent pole. It is much easier to craft tent poles (tent sticks) from the plethora of dry wood in the forest, than it is to make a replacement ski stick. That is my point.
We become foolish if we suggest uses that could be very ordinary, to destroy a ski stick. Only the greatest of needs would inspire destruction of the ski stick. What might these be?
-
How about some of the worst winter conditions imaginable, in deep snow, and no access to other sticks.
(https://4sport.ua/_upl/2/1425/f_1.jpg)
Anyone who decides to deny this photo evidence and official testimony of an inverted vintage partial ski-pole being used as an anchoring device for the corner of the tent needs to find a different hobby.
(https://i.ibb.co/B644mQt/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-0081.jpg)
-
What do you mean they were not all bamboo...... GLAD YOU ASKED!!!!!
(https://i.ibb.co/k8zrphg/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-0072.jpg)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0036/2852/products/1-_metal_ski_poles_1200x.jpg?v=1304861956)
-
The word "in tent" is underlined specially
.
'Inside' is nowhere to be seen. whist1
I should repeat once again. If it is necessary I can repeat on word syllables. grin1
In Russian there is pretext "В - in as easy". It means concept "inside" unequivocally. Any translator (especially if it means the automatic machine) thoughtlessly translates into English as a pretext “in” though will tell more correctly “at” or “inside”. It means semantic transfer.
Therefore, when Lebedev speaks “В tent”, it is necessary to translate it “at tent” or “inside tent”. On another Russian people do not mean to understand.
If it was question of any other place, he should tell: “on tent”, “near to tent”, “ near tent”. Even word meaning “under tent”, does not mean a pretext "in".
The word "in tent" is underlined specially
.
Over all things the ski stick cut on some pieces, on it lay, visible northern fad of tent has been strengthened. To dare at stick damage, considering that in group spare was not possible only at exceptional circumstances.
thumb1
Well also what here it is not clear? He has assumed that it was the rack from North side. But it is only its assumption. And no more that is. Me surprises that they in any way do not pay attention that at such length of tent (and absence of braces middle of tent) nobody has understood that in the middle of this length there should be one more ski stick.
It is even more surprising that nobody has thought what even full length of the biggest stick is not enough what to lift, for this purpose, the ridge (the middle and along tent) on the necessary height for good stability of tent at a wind. To cut off a part from a stick for this purpose, what to lift the middle is there is silly act complete.
-
What do you mean they were not all bamboo...... GLAD YOU ASKED!!!!!
(https://i.ibb.co/k8zrphg/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-0072.jpg)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0036/2852/products/1-_metal_ski_poles_1200x.jpg?v=1304861956)
Ha-ha! It are skis and sticks journalist Yury Jarovoi which has arrived to searches together with Maslennikov and Tempalov 1959,February 27.
-
And mix their gear with the tent contents. whist1
-
No other wood, like ignition wood? Fire sticks? just ski sticks carried in portage? These must be very stupid people, no?
-
Perhaps Igor went to the treeline to get smaller sticks to light that 1 log they had. Wouldn't be the first time.
(https://image.ibb.co/iBL1NR/Igor-Dyatlov-57.jpg)
-
And mix their gear with the tent contents. whist1
It is not necessary as consider participants of searches as idiots so they could not distinguish that on what have just come also that equipment which was at Dyatlov group.
If attentively to look at that photo which you have resulted there it is well visible as skis of Dyatlov group differ from skis of participants of searches.
(https://c.radikal.ru/c36/1812/68/509cda4cb5fct.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c36/1812/68/509cda4cb5fc.jpg)
On skis of Dyatlov group (which recently have taken out from under tent) old snow is stuck. It has appeared because fading humidity in tent and under tent promoted its sticking. On skis Yury Yarovoi this snow is not present, because it has come on a dense snow ice crust.
-
Perhaps Igor went to the treeline to get smaller sticks to light that 1 log they had. Wouldn't be the first time.
(https://image.ibb.co/iBL1NR/Igor-Dyatlov-57.jpg)
What could it mean? Please decipher … shock1
-
Go fish?