-
I came on forum with one goal - show forgery photographs after 26 January 1959 year.
Forgery photography means that the campaign is fake.
The bodies were brought in 20-x dates of February, the shooting of forged diaries was written under duress.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html)
-
A little more detail than in the main article, described in a small article about krivonischenko.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html)
-
I know that the KGB et al in this period were masters at editing photographs but I'm struggling to see much sense in this.
E.g. the fifth leg marked 5 seems to be the horse's tail?
Also what would be the motive? Why falsify photos of Yudin saying goodbye when he left the group, how does it help a cover story?
Still there's an interesting claim - Yudin didn't recall embracing Lyudmila? Did he really say this?
-
A little more detail than in the main article, described in a small article about krivonischenko.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html)
But he is clearly not clean shaved in this photo?
-
I know that the KGB et al in this period were masters at editing photographs but I'm struggling to see much sense in this.
E.g. the fifth leg marked 5 seems to be the horse's tail?
Also what would be the motive? Why falsify photos of Yudin saying goodbye when he left the group, how does it help a cover story?
Still there's an interesting claim - Yudin didn't recall embracing Lyudmila? Did he really say this?
Neither the KGB, nor the interior Ministry, nor the CIA, nor the GRU, nor any other Agency did this. The Directors ' shop is not in the departments, but all departments are obliged to support the productions.
All events after January 26 are fake.
Yudin does not remember saying goodbye in this interview at 14: 30 . https://youtu.be/kHSdksyU_Q4
-
A little more detail than in the main article, described in a small article about krivonischenko.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html)
But he is clearly not clean shaved in this photo?
He is clean-shaven in all photos and in a campaign, and before a campaign. But it doesn't matter. 0.5 cm to grow for 13-15 days. Even if he stopped shaving on January 27, he died on February 8-10.
(https://i.imgur.com/l85AiuH.jpg)
-
A painstaking analysis, and I salute the person who did all this detective work. But this theory adds so many layers of complexity to the Dyatlov hikers' deaths. All the photos after Jan. 26 would have to be created from photos taken on Jan. 26 or before. Wouldn't it be far too obvious to forge and alter existing photos over and over again in an attempt to create "new" photos for Jan. 27-Feb. 1. Wouldn't there be just too much similarity in the photos? The important question is why did the KGB kill the hikers on Jan. 26 and where. Then why stage such a detailed and elaborate death scene? Why not have the authorities announce in late Feb. that after an extensive search the hikers disappeared without a trace?
-
A little more detail than in the main article, described in a small article about krivonischenko.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html)
But he is clearly not clean shaved in this photo?
He is clean-shaven in all photos and in a campaign, and before a campaign. But it doesn't matter. 0.5 cm to grow for 13-15 days. Even if he stopped shaving on January 27, he died on February 8-10.
(https://i.imgur.com/l85AiuH.jpg)
No he isn't, he clearly has several days of stubble in this photo :-
(https://i.ibb.co/48n4NQP/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-05-copyex.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
-
I am very impressed with the work done with the photographic forgery. I am an amateur photographer but I can see the indications of the forgery. I believe you are onto something. I definitely believe the KGB or the military killed and tortured these people.
A few questions: Yuri left the group and he had kept a small gift from Lyudia, which was a stuffed animal of sorts. It does appear the picture is forged of them hugging. Why did Yuri Yudin really leave the group, and do you believe he has lied for 60 years about his leaving? Or perhaps he dodged a bullet?
The other question is the flesh on the cedar tree and the evidence that the 2 Yuri's climbed the tree? If they were killed somewhere else, how was this accomplished?
Does this mean that the tent was replanted on the mountain and the 3 cuts were made by the perpetrators? I cannot see the Mansi involved in this at all.
Thank you for your detailed report, it is very disturbing....
-
Wow Ive followed this subject for over a decade and this is a truly startling new approach to the whole matter. If true then everything written on the subject to date has been nothing but wasted ink.
Still in shock.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/l85AiuH.jpg)
No he isn't, he clearly has several days of stubble in this photo :-
(https://i.ibb.co/48n4NQP/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-05-copyex.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
This fake photos even in Dubinina if you want you can see the bristles larger than Krivonischenko
-
A painstaking analysis, and I salute the person who did all this detective work. But this theory adds so many layers of complexity to the Dyatlov hikers' deaths. All the photos after Jan. 26 would have to be created from photos taken on Jan. 26 or before. Wouldn't it be far too obvious to forge and alter existing photos over and over again in an attempt to create "new" photos for Jan. 27-Feb. 1. Wouldn't there be just too much similarity in the photos? The important question is why did the KGB kill the hikers on Jan. 26 and where. Then why stage such a detailed and elaborate death scene? Why not have the authorities announce in late Feb. that after an extensive search the hikers disappeared without a trace?
The shop that made the production with real corpses has no relation to the KGB, the interior Ministry, ets.
For production of false photos real shootings of tourists from January 23 to January 26 in Sverdlovsk, Serov, Ivdel were used.
-
A few questions: Yuri left the group and he had kept a small gift from Lyudia, which was a stuffed animal of sorts. It does appear the picture is forged of them hugging. Why did Yuri Yudin really leave the group, and do you believe he has lied for 60 years about his leaving? Or perhaps he dodged a bullet?
We don't know anything about Yudina, except for two facts.
1. On 26 January he went from Vizhaya with the group.
2. On February 19, he appeared alive and well, with stories about the village of loggers of the 41st quarter, about the village of the 2nd Northern mine, about his illness, which was not confirmed by any document.
Where he was and that did with 26.01.1959 on 19.02.1959, not knows no one. This is known only from his words, false photographs and diaries, completed under duress.
He's been telling lies all his life. Therefore, he can be called an accomplice of forgers.
-
The other question is the flesh on the cedar tree and the evidence that the 2 Yuri's climbed the tree? If they were killed somewhere else, how was this accomplished?
Does this mean that the tent was replanted on the mountain and the 3 cuts were made by the perpetrators? I cannot see the Mansi involved in this at all.
There's nothing in the criminal case about flesh on wood. But if you want, you can cover the tree with blood and flesh.
Dyatlov's group was not on the pass, the campaign ended on January 26.
The unique homemade tent was not at Dyatlov's group, it was brought by falsifiers
-
Wow Ive followed this subject for over a decade and this is a truly startling new approach to the whole matter. If true then everything written on the subject to date has been nothing but wasted ink.
Still in shock.
Heats up all sorts of versions and clues of the mystery of the Dyatlov pass, initiates writing books, shooting movies the same shop (extra-matrix, supranational, suprastate) clique that did this production with the bringing of bodies and forgery of filming.
-
Hi, some of your proposals are quite troubling, some are a bit far fetched and it seems could be explained by differences in lenses between cameras: it would anyway require a lot of work to double check!
I was wondering where did you get the pictures as some are slightly -but signifcatantly- different from those on the forum. like the frame n°5 ok Krivo's film that doesn't have the scratch on the negative behind the black hat.
regards
-
(https://i.imgur.com/l85AiuH.jpg)
No he isn't, he clearly has several days of stubble in this photo :-
(https://i.ibb.co/48n4NQP/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-05-copyex.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
This fake photos even in Dubinina if you want you can see the bristles larger than Krivonischenko
So when the KGB faked the picture they gave Lyudmila stubble as well as Yuri to fool everybody? dance1
-
The height difference could be explained simply by not standing on level ground. The scratch may just be more prominent away from the dark area of Thibo’s hat?
If you look at Thibo’s right hand it is slightly out of focus supporting movement and it casts a very realistic shadow onto Krivonishenko’s jacket. How can this be explained?
Regards
Star man
-
(https://i.imgur.com/l85AiuH.jpg)
No he isn't, he clearly has several days of stubble in this photo :-
(https://i.ibb.co/48n4NQP/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-05-copyex.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
This fake photos even in Dubinina if you want you can see the bristles larger than Krivonischenko
So when the KGB faked the picture they gave Lyudmila stubble as well as Yuri to fool everybody? dance1
Ask those who claim to be the author of fake KGB photos. And I don't have a word about the KGB, the interior Ministry, the CIA, etc.
(http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1576620422/5d59168d/28944913.gif)
-
Hi, some of your proposals are quite troubling, some are a bit far fetched and it seems could be explained by differences in lenses between cameras: it would anyway require a lot of work to double check!
I was wondering where did you get the pictures as some are slightly -but signifcatantly- different from those on the forum. like the frame n°5 ok Krivo's film that doesn't have the scratch on the negative behind the black hat.
regards
There are no differences between cameras. All cameras of Dyatlov's group are Zorky, all are equipped with a standard lens of Industar-22.
All five films of Dyatlov's group are exposed in open access in may, 2011 - http://9001.lt/1959/ . The Kuntsevich Foundation allegedly lost the sixth film.
-
The height difference could be explained simply by not standing on level ground. The scratch may just be more prominent away from the dark area of Thibo’s hat?
If you look at Thibo’s right hand it is slightly out of focus supporting movement and it casts a very realistic shadow onto Krivonishenko’s jacket. How can this be explained?
Regards
Star man
(https://i.imgur.com/DHjhUWm.jpg)
The photo shoot was done on the ice of the Lozva river, smooth as a tabletop. 10 pictures were taken on 4 cameras, on one background, in one place, all were filmed standing on skis. http://9001.lt/1959/
In the upper left part of the picture there are scratches on which the figures from the photographic plate were not superimposed. They are visible on both light and dark backgrounds.
On Dubinin's right shoulder, the shadow of his arm and the shadow of his collar point in the opposite direction.
-
https://uamshealth.com/healthlibrary2/medicalmyths/dohairandnailsgrowafterdeath/
-
All of this sounds like a sub-conspiracy within the big conspiracy. And still - why so much effort to stage the photos and everything? dunno1
-
The height difference could be explained simply by not standing on level ground. The scratch may just be more prominent away from the dark area of Thibo’s hat?
If you look at Thibo’s right hand it is slightly out of focus supporting movement and it casts a very realistic shadow onto Krivonishenko’s jacket. How can this be explained?
Regards
Star man
(https://i.imgur.com/DHjhUWm.jpg)
The photo shoot was done on the ice of the Lozva river, smooth as a tabletop. 10 pictures were taken on 4 cameras, on one background, in one place, all were filmed standing on skis. http://9001.lt/1959/
In the upper left part of the picture there are scratches on which the figures from the photographic plate were not superimposed. They are visible on both light and dark backgrounds.
On Dubinin's right shoulder, the shadow of his arm and the shadow of his collar point in the opposite direction.
I can’t see the shadow on Lyuda “s shoulder. You would need to point it out!? One thing to note too is that the light source is fairly omnidirectional due to the bright daylight reflecting off the snow. It isn’t too difficult to explain shadows appearing to be in opposition when subjects are in close proximity.
Regards
Star man
-
The height difference could be explained simply by not standing on level ground. The scratch may just be more prominent away from the dark area of Thibo’s hat?
If you look at Thibo’s right hand it is slightly out of focus supporting movement and it casts a very realistic shadow onto Krivonishenko’s jacket. How can this be explained?
Regards
Star man
(https://i.imgur.com/DHjhUWm.jpg)
The photo shoot was done on the ice of the Lozva river, smooth as a tabletop. 10 pictures were taken on 4 cameras, on one background, in one place, all were filmed standing on skis. http://9001.lt/1959/ (http://9001.lt/1959/)
In the upper left part of the picture there are scratches on which the figures from the photographic plate were not superimposed. They are visible on both light and dark backgrounds.
On Dubinin's right shoulder, the shadow of his arm and the shadow of his collar point in the opposite direction.
I can’t see the shadow on Lyuda “s shoulder. You would need to point it out!? One thing to note too is that the light source is fairly omnidirectional due to the bright daylight reflecting off the snow. It isn’t too difficult to explain shadows appearing to be in opposition when subjects are in close proximity.
Regards
Star man
Yes exactly.
-
All of this sounds like a sub-conspiracy within the big conspiracy. And still - why so much effort to stage the photos and everything? dunno1
Yeah, what would've been the point of staging the photo when the case file was classified anyway?
-
https://uamshealth.com/healthlibrary2/medicalmyths/dohairandnailsgrowafterdeath/
Yes, it is. Because of the drying of the skin, part of the hair opens, and this creates the illusion of unshaven. No more than the length of the daily increase-0.32-0.38 mm. This will not give 0.5 cm of bristles krivonishchenko and 1 cm of bristles Thibault.
Krivonishchenko with bristles 0.5 centimeters should to live after last shaving 13-15 days - https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html ,
Thibault with bristles 1 centimeters should to live after last shaving 26-31 day - https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/#entry-picturehistory-4632944 .
On films of participants of Dyatlov's group there are shots where they are both clean-shaven.
-
All of this sounds like a sub-conspiracy within the big conspiracy. And still - why so much effort to stage the photos and everything? dunno1
The effort was minimal.
Conspiracy theories are the brainchild of the same author who made the productions.
All fakes are created to create virtual events.
-
I can’t see the shadow on Lyuda “s shoulder. You would need to point it out!? One thing to note too is that the light source is fairly omnidirectional due to the bright daylight reflecting off the snow. It isn’t too difficult to explain shadows appearing to be in opposition when subjects are in close proximity.
Regards
Star man
(https://i.imgur.com/WgSUQKa.jpg)
The explanation is very simple. This is a photo montage.
-
I can’t see the shadow on Lyuda “s shoulder. You would need to point it out!? One thing to note too is that the light source is fairly omnidirectional due to the bright daylight reflecting off the snow. It isn’t too difficult to explain shadows appearing to be in opposition when subjects are in close proximity.
Regards
Star man
(https://i.imgur.com/WgSUQKa.jpg)
The explanation is very simple. This is a photo montage.
The explanation is very simple. This is a load of nonsense.
-
All the indications are that the Dyatlov Group met there demise in the area where they last made camp. No evidence of falsifications. All the photos seem genuine.
-
https://uamshealth.com/healthlibrary2/medicalmyths/dohairandnailsgrowafterdeath/
Yes, it is. Because of the drying of the skin, part of the hair opens, and this creates the illusion of unshaven. No more than the length of the daily increase-0.32-0.38 mm. This will not give 0.5 cm of bristles krivonishchenko and 1 cm of bristles Thibault.
Krivonishchenko with bristles 0.5 centimeters should to live after last shaving 13-15 days - https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html ,
Thibault with bristles 1 centimeters should to live after last shaving 26-31 day - https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/#entry-picturehistory-4632944 .
On films of participants of Dyatlov's group there are shots where they are both clean-shaven.
#1 we don't know the day last shaved.
#2 We know how long after last meal they died, but that says nothing in regards to how many hours or days they were alive after leaving the tent. Its entirely possible that they had food with them and survived 24-48 hours. We don't know
-
There isn’t one single direction of light. There is bright diffuse light from both the sky and reflecting off the snow across the landscape.
Regards
Star man
-
All the indications are that the Dyatlov Group met there demise in the area where they last made camp. No evidence of falsifications. All the photos seem genuine.
It is necessary to show on each concrete example of a photomontage why it is not a photomontage.
Remembering about the fact that even a single false frame makes false the entire film.
-
#1 we don't know the day last shaved.
#2 We know how long after last meal they died, but that says nothing in regards to how many hours or days they were alive after leaving the tent. Its entirely possible that they had food with them and survived 24-48 hours. We don't know
1. They are shaved in the photos of the hike.
(https://i.imgur.com/go7amSG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q0oHpEB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FmgTfCH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OgD55DA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G4CbFjM.jpg)
2. Hair 0.5 cm long on the upper lip and chin grows in 13-15 days. Hair length of 1 cm, actually beard, grows within 26-31 days.
-
There isn’t one single direction of light. There is bright diffuse light from both the sky and reflecting off the snow across the landscape.
Regards
Star man
Explain this to the person who saw the shadow of the hand.
If you look at Thibo’s right hand it is slightly out of focus supporting movement and it casts a very realistic shadow onto Krivonishenko’s jacket. How can this be explained?
Regards
Star man
-
How much biotin was in their diet? thanky1
-
There isn’t one single direction of light. There is bright diffuse light from both the sky and reflecting off the snow across the landscape.
Regards
Star man
Explain this to the person who saw the shadow of the hand.
If you look at Thibo’s right hand it is slightly out of focus supporting movement and it casts a very realistic shadow onto Krivonishenko’s jacket. How can this be explained?
Regards
Star man
The shadow of Thibo’ Hand is a perfect example of what I am saying. In close proximity to another object the diffuse scattered light will make a shadow from pretty much any direction.
Regards
Star man
-
The shadow of Thibo’ Hand is a perfect example of what I am saying. In close proximity to another object the diffuse scattered light will make a shadow from pretty much any direction.
Why is Yuri's hand illuminated on one side and Yuri's pockets and Thibaut's sleeve illuminated on the other?
(https://i.imgur.com/3Gn7cer.jpg)
-
The shadow of Thibo’ Hand is a perfect example of what I am saying. In close proximity to another object the diffuse scattered light will make a shadow from pretty much any direction.
Why is Yuri's hand illuminated on one side and Yuri's pockets and Thibaut's sleeve illuminated on the other?
(https://i.imgur.com/3Gn7cer.jpg)
Because as starman has already told you the light is omni-directional (many directions) because it's reflecting off the snow.
-
That is correct Nigel. The light is coming from all directions.
To show that the photos have been put together I think you will need additional evidence?
Regards
Star man
-
Because as starman has already told you the light is omni-directional (many directions) because it's reflecting off the snow.
Why does omnidirectional (many directions) light illuminate some objects on one side and other objects on the other side?
This happens in other fake photos as well.
Why?
(https://i.imgur.com/h6OR7n4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V7zUBbl.jpg)
-
Because as starman has already told you the light is omni-directional (many directions) because it's reflecting off the snow.
Why does omnidirectional (many directions) light illuminate some objects on one side and other objects on the other side?
This happens in other fake photos as well.
Why?
(https://i.imgur.com/h6OR7n4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V7zUBbl.jpg)
Because the light is coming from many directions?
-
Because the light is coming from many directions?
No. Because it's a photo montage.
-
Because the light is coming from many directions?
No. Because it's a photo montage.
I can see that we will have to agree to disagree.
bang1 Merry christmas.
-
Because the light is coming from many directions?
No. Because it's a photo montage.
Gorojanin, I dont want to sound hostile or anything, but this theory of photo staging seem to be as absurd, as all the alien-Yeti-Chubacabra ones. The main reason is too simple - why anyone would put so much effort?
-
Gorojanin, I dont want to sound hostile or anything, but this theory of photo staging seem to be as absurd, as all the alien-Yeti-Chubacabra ones. The main reason is too simple - why anyone would put so much effort?
The theory may or may not seem absurd, but the facts of falsification of photos after January 26, 1959 are obvious.
-
Gorojanin, I dont want to sound hostile or anything, but this theory of photo staging seem to be as absurd, as all the alien-Yeti-Chubacabra ones. The main reason is too simple - why anyone would put so much effort?
The theory may or may not seem absurd, but the facts of falsification of photos after January 26, 1959 are obvious.
OK, fair enough.
-
2. Hair 0.5 cm long on the upper lip and chin grows in 13-15 days. Hair length of 1 cm, actually beard, grows within 26-31 days.
It's an addition to Thibault's centimeter-long beard at the morgue. Thibault was clean-shaven in the photo in Vijay, he did not have a mustache and beard up to 1 cm long.
(https://i.imgur.com/ArgFlO3.jpg)
These are Thibault's belongings, identified and handed over to his relatives. Item 14: the box with the razor.
Sheet 252 of the Criminal case.
(https://i.imgur.com/Cay3vA3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yZqxZI8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hB5OqZ3.jpg)
-
I'll give you another photo to understand the problem with Thibault's 1-centimeter stubble in the morgue. This is Thibault in the Altai mountains, where he didn't use a razor. He has a mustache less than 1 centimeter long.
(https://i.imgur.com/0LnDmIt.jpg)
They can not be seen in any photos with a group of Dyatlov.
(https://i.imgur.com/ArgFlO3.jpg)
(http://9001.lt/1959/img/4/15.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OgD55DA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G4CbFjM.jpg)
-
2. Hair 0.5 cm long on the upper lip and chin grows in 13-15 days. Hair length of 1 cm, actually beard, grows within 26-31 days.
It's an addition to Thibault's centimeter-long beard at the morgue. Thibault was clean-shaven in the photo in Vijay, he did not have a mustache and beard up to 1 cm long.
(https://i.imgur.com/ArgFlO3.jpg)
These are Thibault's belongings, identified and handed over to his relatives. Item 14: the box with the razor.
Sheet 252 of the Criminal case.
(https://i.imgur.com/Cay3vA3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yZqxZI8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hB5OqZ3.jpg)
Beards and mustaches continue to grow for a while after people die. So no wonder.
-
Beards and mustaches continue to grow for a while after people die. So no wonder.
These stories are not supported by doctors and forensic experts. Part of the hair opens up to the length of the daily increase of 0.30-0.40 mm due to the drying of the skin. That is all.
A mustache up to 1 centimeter long is a thing that either exists or does not exist. On photos of Dyatlov's group it is obviously not available.
(https://i.imgur.com/0LnDmIt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OgD55DA.jpg)
-
In addition to the hair on krivonishchenko's chin, which grew to a length of 0.5 cm, you can see how his nails grew. The nails had clearly not been cut since January 26, and they had been growing for about two weeks. Except for the nail of the single middle finger of the right hand, but the pad on the middle finger is swollen.
(https://i.imgur.com/8c7X6x0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pkB7UkZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/49V90WO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PRCYv3P.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rT45iQB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wa8Vnf2.jpg)
-
People helped make a translation of another short article.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/fake-pictures-of-dyatlov-allegedly.html
-
If someone still doesn't understand why all writers are forbidden to mention fake photos of the Dyatlov group, they will understand it from this article.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/work-on-mistakes-of-researchers-of.html
-
This is a question for those who still consider the March and death of Dyatlov's group on February 2, 1959 at the pass to be real events.
Can anyone explain the 1 cm long stubble on the dead Thibault's face? This bristle cancels all research by all researchers of the Dyatlov group, and cancels the entire route and all known events with the Dyatlov group after January 26, 1959.
https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html
-
I think that some details that are not directly related to the Dyatlov pass will help to see this event in its true light for those who have not yet seen it.
*
In Sverdlovsk, starting in February 1959, a version of the murder of students by state officials was widely circulated, and rumors of the murder were spread EN masse.
After the loss of the Dyatlov group, officials from sports and party organizations did not inform the families of the missing people of any information, did not start searching, lied to relatives of Kolevatov, Dubinina, Slobodin that they do not have a map, that they do not know the route, and so on. They were specifically encouraged to call Moscow and make as much noise as possible...
After the first five bodies were found, the entire city knew about Dyatlov's group. The funeral was Grand. They were buried in open coffins so that as many people as possible could see the beaten members of Dyatlov's group...
Only in may, the avalanche version was launched for formality.
(https://i.imgur.com/t3niPaX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZRJQhvE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JmR8zdD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G9VQVDQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/U0YfTE4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RhxqeKi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D6UlTXA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pzP90ax.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lBEkh0o.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ICNAbj6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q3cE4xB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ErGv8Kx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y8ni8Pz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EvVRkYc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oWVBlXT.jpg)
-
I think that some details that are not directly related to the Dyatlov pass will help to see this event in its true light for those who have not yet seen it.
*
In Sverdlovsk, starting in February 1959, a version of the murder of students by state officials was widely circulated, and rumors of the murder were spread EN masse.
After the loss of the Dyatlov group, officials from sports and party organizations did not inform the families of the missing people of any information, did not start searching, lied to relatives of Kolevatov, Dubinina, Slobodin that they do not have a map, that they do not know the route, and so on. They were specifically encouraged to call Moscow and make as much noise as possible...
After the first five bodies were found, the entire city knew about Dyatlov's group. The funeral was Grand. They were buried in open coffins so that as many people as possible could see the beaten members of Dyatlov's group...
Only in may, the avalanche version was launched for formality.
(https://i.imgur.com/t3niPaX.jpg)
Photo................................
Tell me, please, what are you trying to do? Is it really so that these pictures can be considered fake?
But that's the second question. The first question should be: by what right do you post someone else's photos without the authorization of their owner? As far as I know, their author and owner is Valentin Yakimenko. And as far as I know, he didn't give you that right.
I myself scanned these tapes at Valentin Yakimenko's request, and I can certify with 100% guarantee that they are all authentic.
Your statements about the fake tapes of Dyatlov's group, which were handed over by his daughter Alexandra, are fake. And you've been told about it many times on several Russian forums. They practically stopped talking to you there and you crawled over here.
In addition, you have been repeatedly pointed out to be completely illiterate in the field of photography on photosensitive film and the methods that you offer and on the basis of which "they" could something to fake. You couldn't even tell who and why it was necessary. And you couldn't give any little justification. Because you've been avoiding answering these questions all the time. If necessary, I can give a lot of links to specific articles in these forums.
If you think that readers here are less competent in the same questions, you are very mistaken. That is why there are so few people willing to discuss with you.
Прекращайте заниматься фигней. Не позорьте страну. По вашим писаниям могут подумать, что таких придурков у нас много. К счастью, интеллектуально более развитых людей у нас осталось достаточно. И вы от них уже все получили на наших форумах. Заканчивайте этот театр одного актера и ни одного зрителя.
It was me who explained to the author in his native language how wrong he is here.
-
Tell me, please, what are you trying to do? Is it really so that these pictures can be considered fake?
But that's the second question. The first question should be: by what right do you post someone else's photos without the authorization of their owner? As far as I know, their author and owner is Valentin Yakimenko. And as far as I know, he didn't give you that right.
I myself scanned these tapes at Valentin Yakimenko's request, and I can certify with 100% guarantee that they are all authentic.
Your statements about the fake tapes of Dyatlov's group, which were handed over by his daughter Alexandra, are fake. And you've been told about it many times on several Russian forums. They practically stopped talking to you there and you crawled over here.
In addition, you have been repeatedly pointed out to be completely illiterate in the field of photography on photosensitive film and the methods that you offer and on the basis of which "they" could something to fake. You couldn't even tell who and why it was necessary. And you couldn't give any little justification. Because you've been avoiding answering these questions all the time. If necessary, I can give a lot of links to specific articles in these forums.
If you think that readers here are less competent in the same questions, you are very mistaken. That is why there are so few people willing to discuss with you.
Прекращайте заниматься фигней. Не позорьте страну. По вашим писаниям могут подумать, что таких придурков у нас много. К счастью, интеллектуально более развитых людей у нас осталось достаточно. И вы от них уже все получили на наших форумах. Заканчивайте этот театр одного актера и ни одного зрителя.
It was me who explained to the author in his native language how wrong he is here.
Please go to the mirror and expose it in your fantasies. Films were delivered with the bodies to the pass, attached to the investigation materials, stored in the Ivanov archive, transferred to the Fund on receipt, published by Koskin. With the exception of one film allegedly lost by the Foundation. Everything else is your fantasy.
Придумайте что-нибудь вменяемое хоть по одному показанному примеру фотомонтажей "съемок дятловцев", не позорьте цех.
-
I think that some details that are not directly related to the Dyatlov pass will help to see this event in its true light for those who have not yet seen it.
*
In Sverdlovsk, starting in February 1959, a version of the murder of students by state officials was widely circulated, and rumors of the murder were spread EN masse.
After the loss of the Dyatlov group, officials from sports and party organizations did not inform the families of the missing people of any information, did not start searching, lied to relatives of Kolevatov, Dubinina, Slobodin that they do not have a map, that they do not know the route, and so on. They were specifically encouraged to call Moscow and make as much noise as possible...
After the first five bodies were found, the entire city knew about Dyatlov's group. The funeral was Grand. They were buried in open coffins so that as many people as possible could see the beaten members of Dyatlov's group...
Only in may, the avalanche version was launched for formality.
(https://i.imgur.com/t3niPaX.jpg)
Photo................................
Tell me, please, what are you trying to do? Is it really so that these pictures can be considered fake?
But that's the second question. The first question should be: by what right do you post someone else's photos without the authorization of their owner? As far as I know, their author and owner is Valentin Yakimenko. And as far as I know, he didn't give you that right.
I myself scanned these tapes at Valentin Yakimenko's request, and I can certify with 100% guarantee that they are all authentic.
Your statements about the fake tapes of Dyatlov's group, which were handed over by his daughter Alexandra, are fake. And you've been told about it many times on several Russian forums. They practically stopped talking to you there and you crawled over here.
In addition, you have been repeatedly pointed out to be completely illiterate in the field of photography on photosensitive film and the methods that you offer and on the basis of which "they" could something to fake. You couldn't even tell who and why it was necessary. And you couldn't give any little justification. Because you've been avoiding answering these questions all the time. If necessary, I can give a lot of links to specific articles in these forums.
If you think that readers here are less competent in the same questions, you are very mistaken. That is why there are so few people willing to discuss with you.
Прекращайте заниматься фигней. Не позорьте страну. По вашим писаниям могут подумать, что таких придурков у нас много. К счастью, интеллектуально более развитых людей у нас осталось достаточно. И вы от них уже все получили на наших форумах. Заканчивайте этот театр одного актера и ни одного зрителя.
It was me who explained to the author in his native language how wrong he is here.
A scratch that passes through Thibault's hat, Krivonishchenko is a giant, and Thibault is a dwarf - this is enough to recognize a photo montage.
However there is other evidence:
The most illuminated place is Luda's right cheek and her right jacket sleeve from the elbow to the top of the shoulder. At the same time, the hand of Krivonishchenko lying on Luda's shoulder is illuminated worse. Photos of Rustem and Thibault were taken with less light - their clothes, as well as their face and hands, had a darker background than those of Krivonishchenko and Luda. Have Krivonischenko below the line caps you can see the strip of Shine, there is a light source above and it does not explain reflectivity of snow. That is, all as if taken from different photos.
And that's not all:
According to falsified diaries and films , this photo was taken after a difficult transition. From the diary of the campaign, 28 January:
> "Came out at 11-45. We go up the Lozva river. Each makes a trail for 10 minutes. The depth of snow this year is significantly less than in the past. Often you have to stop and scrape the wet snow off your skis, because there are still such unfrozen places."
At the same time, the weight of backpacks for students is 30-40kg.
After a heavy long-term load, the tension does not leave the body immediately. And the face should be tense, especially considering that you have to either move on or set up a camp.
And in this montage, the guys are not tired, relaxed, full of energy and strong joyful emotions.
I've been Hiking a lot myself and I know what people look like after such loads.
(https://i.ibb.co/VDZHr2z/05.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mtwv162)
-
Added a picture to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) . The picture says that most of the photos of members of the Dyatlov group were taken within a 30-minute walk from the village of Severny.
(https://i.imgur.com/bxun6Z5.jpg)
-
Also added to the main post.
*
Although if you take a closer look, you will see that this is the same session, although the photo was taken away on January 30, 1959, and that Tibo’s supports was erased from the photo, the ski poles with rings wider than the face were painted, a third ski too was added.
(https://i.imgur.com/pFr4Dvv.jpg)
These are segments of the same length in a photo with real sticks and in a fake photo with painted sticks .
(https://i.imgur.com/Gc9auHT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/k8Suw66.jpg)
-
Also added to the main post.
*
(https://i.imgur.com/MwB3FgW.jpg)
Dubinina's ski tips and heels are almost at the same distance from the photographer. From the ski tip to the binding - less than a meter. That is, at this distance Dubinina is closer to the photographer than Slobodin, but her figure is almost one and a half times (!!!) bigger. A very serious mistake.
(https://i.imgur.com/XWeJAUL.jpg)
These segments - Dubinina's height from the soles to the neck-are of equal length.
(https://i.imgur.com/mdQC3id.jpg)
-
More contribution to the general nonsense of this photo "manipulation"... Sorry, but things like this make even the Yeti and Chupacabra sound like a reasonable explanation.
-
More contribution to the general nonsense of this photo "manipulation"... Sorry, but things like this make even the Yeti and Chupacabra sound like a reasonable explanation.
This is an unsubstantiated statement. We need explanations of these and all other examples given, as well as various degrees of decomposition of corpses, fatal wounds, traces of beatings, 26-31-day stubble on the face of the dead Thibault (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html), 13-15-day stubble on the face of the dead Krivonishchenko (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/real-life-time-difficult-death-fake.html), etc.
-
More contribution to the general nonsense of this photo "manipulation"... Sorry, but things like this make even the Yeti and Chupacabra sound like a reasonable explanation.
Dear Morski !
It is useless for this man to say anything. They tried to explain something to him on our forums for a long time, but it only led to the fact that they stopped talking to him and he moved to this forum, where he is not known. Here the picture is completely repeated, so the best way not to inflate the spam of inadequate level and not to respond.
Here are some links to our forums, where all this has already happened:
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=12503.0 .
https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=38&tema=250&start=80 .
or here's his blog at LJ.
https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%20%D0%A1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD
You read Russian, so you can understand a lot in detail.
And that's where he got his "inspiration" from:
https://vk.com/@alex_hazard-gruppa-dyatlova-2
I don't want to look for the rest of the links anymore.
Mysterious ways ... conspiracy.
PS. I rarely come here (very busy), but I am very happy to welcome you here.
-
It is good to hear from you, dear WAB! It`s been a while.
I have read your previous post about Gorojanin, and now, after your response to me, I am even more aware of his... "interpretation". I see now, that it is futile to argue with him, so I will just ignore.
I also participate very rarely in the forum during the last months, but I try to read most of the discussions.
I really hope you are in good spirit and health, and you "fight" only your professional commitments.
Really glad to see you again in this great forum. (Huge thanks to Teddy, of course thanky1 )
-
It is useless for this man to say anything. They tried to explain something to him on our forums for a long time, but it only led to the fact that they stopped talking to him and he moved to this forum, where he is not known. Here the picture is completely repeated, so the best way not to inflate the spam of inadequate level and not to respond.
Here are some links to our forums, where all this has already happened:
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=12503.0 .
https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=38&tema=250&start=80 .
or here's his blog at LJ.
https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%20%D0%A1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD
You read Russian, so you can understand a lot in detail.
Before closing the subject of photo falsification, which is forbidden for all our forums and writers, these resources behaved relatively decently.
But not all writers do this. For example, the writer Alexander Kas just went into hysterics, like a little girl with a severe psychiatric diagnosis.
(http://imgur.com/ygsNLjv.jpg)
A well-known researcher of the Dyatlov group Semiletov deleted the cult forum Khibina-files when the topic of falsifying photos began to be analyzed in a dozen sections. He told people some nonsense about the reason for deleting the forum - that he was insulted in a personal message. And he told me: "I'm not interested in the campaign of the Dyatlov group". thanky1
*
I guess you're not going to say anything specific about any particular example of fake photos, because you have nothing to say.
-
And something else. If someone speaks Russian and English better than the people who helped translate this post (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/85272.html) , and can offer better translation options for its fragments than in this version (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) , I will be grateful and put the best translation options. Unfortunately, I speak English only with a Yandex translator.
-
I%u2019ve come across your research before, I think I found it kind of compelling but I got freaked out/overwhelmed and forgot about it. The only picture thing that I clearly see as weird is a five legged horse.
Also I%u2019ve always found the diaries weird. Sometimes it seems like they%u2019re sitting there all writing the same exact things which was always kind of odd. I found it odd that they watched a movie 3 times in a row which I seem to remember.
Also, I am starting to see things that aren%u2019t there- I see a body in one of those photos. It%u2019s right under the part where you talk about %u201Cdummies%u201D and %u201Ccliques%u201D and the photos are of trees. Right under the word dummy in the photo below that, on the far right, I see a guy laying in the snow underneath it a cm or two. Can%u2019t tell who it is but his face is facing us, you can see his arm and a thin white stripe on his hat. Which makes no sense and can%u2019t be true but I can%u2019t unsee it. I%u2019ve always seen that first picture too though as the face of a dead man so possibly I just have a problem ..
-
I%u2019ve come across your research before, I think I found it kind of compelling but I got freaked out/overwhelmed and forgot about it. The only picture thing that I clearly see as weird is a five legged horse.
Also I%u2019ve always found the diaries weird. Sometimes it seems like they%u2019re sitting there all writing the same exact things which was always kind of odd. I found it odd that they watched a movie 3 times in a row which I seem to remember.
Also, I am starting to see things that aren%u2019t there- I see a body in one of those photos. It%u2019s right under the part where you talk about %u201Cdummies%u201D and %u201Ccliques%u201D and the photos are of trees. Right under the word dummy in the photo below that, on the far right, I see a guy laying in the snow underneath it a cm or two. Can%u2019t tell who it is but his face is facing us, you can see his arm and a thin white stripe on his hat. Which makes no sense and can%u2019t be true but I can%u2019t unsee it. I%u2019ve always seen that first picture too though as the face of a dead man so possibly I just have a problem ..
"The only picture thing that I clearly see as weird" or "not the only picture thing that I clearly see as weird" are not facts. You need to explain all the visual facts shown in the post. And at the same time, we must remember that even one fake frame makes the entire film fake.
-
I don’t know much about cameras and my brain isn’t good at understanding geometry very well-when other people start talking about pixels and explaining why something is “fake,” it doesn’t mean anything to me. I don’t see evidence of a picture conspiracy
-
.
-
I don’t know much about cameras and my brain isn’t good at understanding geometry very well-when other people start talking about pixels and explaining why something is “fake,” it doesn’t mean anything to me. I don’t see evidence of a picture conspiracy
"I see" and "I don't see" are not facts.
Are you the proponent of a theory or just full of scattergun questions?
I am not a supporter of any theory of researchers of the Dyatlov group. My version of events explains all the facts that the researchers of the Dyatlov group cannot explain. First of all, the facts of falsification of photos.
-
Made several additions to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) .
About signals in diaries.
*
...This is the signal that was written under duress.
Of course, a lot is sifted out, but also in the left full of signals. In the form of confusion. In the form of an unprecedented date of 30.2.59 in Kolmogorova 's diary (https://clck.ru/JtFN8) . In the form of conscious mistakes over time-thanks to blogger lioha-derevnia (https://goo.su/0hS6) .
Read in the General diary:
27.1.59. At 4 o'clock we started... We drove 8 km in 2 hours... It was getting dark.
January 28. We get up to rest at 5: 30.
In fact, in Ivdel, the sun sets at 16: 46. In the area of the village of Severny-a minute or two earlier. At 17: 30 and 18: 00 it is dark, and nothing is visible at all.
And then the diary goes straight on about what happened...
-
Also added to the main post.
Also note the scratch above Thibo. White, i.e. on a positive carrier.
The hat interrupts it, which means: the figure was laid on the carrier.
With an increase, it is clear, that it is shines through, i.e. the master used photoplates.
(https://i.imgur.com/9W3iRVE.jpg)
Other overlays of inserted shapes on micro-damage.
Two photos 28.01.1959. Scratches covered with Krivonischenko`s and Kolevatov`s figures.
(https://i.imgur.com/5LQMWYz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/C8YyD4q.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E2znSnt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/teGaohi.jpg)
29.01.1959. Doroshenko is superimposed on the background
(https://i.imgur.com/vCdfVrJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/go7UEUO.jpg)
30.01.1959. Epic stupidity! I forgot to draw a ski on my leg. fun7
(https://i.imgur.com/1YmB9fg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tPgFLOb.jpg)
Dubinina's double face.
There are no other double faces in any of the photos. The master of photomontage badly painted over the hood. The hood was on the same photo shoot that was used for this fake photo (https://i.imgur.com/AZVrVLg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rECStv2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p0TWphP.jpg)
-
Also added to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html)
Researchers of the Dyatlov`s group believe that it is the evening of 28.01, although the lighting in this photo is morning. But that's not the point.
(https://i.imgur.com/Mx2NAD2.jpg)
The second skier without sticks. His hands are down, but he stands in the speaker, bent like everyone else, and takes a step. It is physically impossible to go skiing without support on ski poles, bent over with a backpack
(https://i.imgur.com/7ODUHDH.jpg)
In the original photo, a person with a backpack is leaning on his left leg, hands down; or without a backpack at all, it was glued by a master. The master saw that there were no sticks, tried to correct the picture by putting one under his arm, but only made it worse.
-
Added another fake photo to the main message (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) .
*
The photo, allegedly made Krivonischenko 01.02.1959.
Two left skis. The right ski is 1.5 times shorter than it should be in this leg position.
The master placed the figure on skis from a different setting.
(https://i.imgur.com/JOi6AMS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yMbKCtq.jpg)
-
Another addition to the previous fake photo.
(https://i.imgur.com/VJAfdvR.jpg)
-
Added two more fake photos to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) .
Three photos allegedly taken on January 31, 1959.
This is the ski stick of a little gnome of the Mansi mountains.
(https://i.imgur.com/8T4RrCR.jpg)
Not so beautiful, but obvious errors with the length of ski poles.
If the photo wizard had taken the ski poles aside, the photos would not have been fake. But he stuck ski poles in the snow near the skier 's foot, and the photos became obvious fakes.
(https://i.imgur.com/LfrMr6m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/af719si.jpg)
In addition to this, the master of photography made tiny palms and the shadow of the right ski.
(https://i.imgur.com/XPsAEIB.jpg)
-
The various posts proposing a forgery of photos prove one thing for sure: either deliberate or not, the author shows a striking misconception of perspective.
-
The various posts proposing a forgery of photos prove one thing for sure: either deliberate or not, the author shows a striking misconception of perspective.
These are just words. It is necessary to show specifically on specific examples of fake photos why they are not fake.
-
Here is an interesting paper not from the case.
Thibault-Brignol's Note.
"Hello, Lida! Greetings from a room filled with sacks, tents and all sorts of food.
We are going on a campaign for Chistorp.
I listened to your letter with great attention - you describe the situation quite correctly.
It's good. That's it. Greetings from our wandering brethren.
23 I 59 K. Thibault".
(https://i.imgur.com/VgU1iYZ.jpg)
Everything is clean except the tents.
There were some double tents, four-person tents, and what and how many-we do not know.
And there was no unique, consisting of two parts of the Dyatlov`s tent for ten persons.It appeared only in the diaries completed before the murder after 26.01.1959, and on the pass where it was brought by the props.
Then Yudin turns like a snake, avoiding the question "who carried the tent?"And leaves, scoundrel))
This tent with a chimney and a stove requires a single porter, which we do not see in any photo montage. All with their backpacks.
And two pictures with a tent in General from the situation from the shooting of Sogrin; he actually had this tent.
And this lack of a tent in all documents, as in the memoirs of "sole survivor", along with the fake photos, sends the entire legend down the chimney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=kHSdksyU_Q4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=kHSdksyU_Q4)
-
Added another fake photo to the main message (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) .
This is another mistake with the backpack. Allegedly photo 01.02.1959. The master put a 12-seat tent on Dyatlov's backpack. The total weight of the load should be more than the Dyatlov's weight , but the Dyatlov stands straight, without support.
(https://i.imgur.com/2HosX2g.jpg)
When the master saw the error, he tried to correct it by rotating the photo on the axis. In the original, the photo montage looks like this. But it didn't help much.
(https://i.imgur.com/xykUO5V.jpg)
-
I will explain what cargo the master loaded on Dyatlov, and for what purpose.
Each group member's backpack has a weight of 30 to 40 kg. It must contain personal equipment ...
(https://i.imgur.com/peIQKOR.jpg)
plus public equipment...
(https://i.imgur.com/paqLF8d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/S3FlGKN.jpg)
...plus products.
The weight of an improvised 12-person tent (plus a stove and flues) can be determined based on the weight of a 2-person tent-15 kg, a 4-person tent-23 kg, a 10-person tent - 50 kg. canvas tents (http://=https://fabrika-pgs.ru/katalog-geologicheskogo-snaryazheniya/geologicheskie-palatki)
In fact, Dyatlov's group did not have a 12-person tent, except for the props brought to the pass along with the corpses. Since the whole story is related to a 12-seat tent, it was necessary to make at least one fake photo of a 12-seat tent being carried.
The photomaster was not smart enough to understand that a man could not carry a load weighing a hundred kilograms, and even more so a man could not stand with this load straight and not lean on his hands.
-
https://uamshealth.com/healthlibrary2/medicalmyths/dohairandnailsgrowafterdeath/
The Faces look well preserved though. I dont detect any shrinkages that would be sufficient to make the Bristles stand out prominently.
-
https://uamshealth.com/healthlibrary2/medicalmyths/dohairandnailsgrowafterdeath/
The Faces look well preserved though. I dont detect any shrinkages that would be sufficient to make the Bristles stand out prominently.
Shrinkages are impossible even in theory. Because the length of krivonishchenko's mustache is 0.5 cm, the length of Thibault-brignol's mustache is 1 cm, and the depth of the hair under the skin of the upper lip is only 1-2. 5 mm.
-
Also added to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html)
Two words about the famous “traces of the members of the Dyatlov`s group on the pass”. They were canceled by Ivanov, the curator of the production, who had attached to the criminal case the document on snowstorms with snowdrifts in the first days of February (https://clck.ru/NYrFr), and Blinov with the note in his diary (https://clck.ru/NYrVW) about the impossibility of aerial reconnaissance of the upper reaches of Auspiya on the Yak-12 plane on February 21, 1959 due to bad weather. And if there are traces on the pass, then these are just traces of props carriers.
And these corpses cancel the tale twice about February 1-2.
Snow did not cover Doroshenko’s head, Krivonischenko’s head, leg, arm. Their torsos are powdered but not covered. This means that the bodies were delivered after the bad weather on February 21. Three others are buried in snow, and these two are left in the forest (in a natural snow accumulator) - an oversight of props carriers, aggravated by Ivanov.
(http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1589956955/e9e59e41/30562720.jpg)
-
Hi Gorojanin. I am no expert, but don't you find less snow in an area with trees than out in the open?
-
Hi Gorojanin. I am no expert, but don't you find less snow in an area with trees than out in the open?
There is always more snow in the forest than on an open, treeless slope. The forest is a natural accumulator of snow.
-
Also added to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html)
And another mistake of Ivanov. Sheets of the case 376-377 - additional questions to the expert, radiologist Levashov
(https://i.imgur.com/v8zlwqN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q3oQyrC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8Z8NtQA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tZ90ZRA.jpg)
Question №4 : What do you think, what could be the degree of contamination of individual objects, if we take into account that before your research they were in running water for about 15 days.
We are talking about the things of the four found 05.05.1959 in the stream.
Minus 15 days is mid-April.
From somewhere Ivanov knows that the bodies got into the stream (i.e. they were delivered and buried there) in the middle of April. How does Ivanov know this, if he is not the curator of the fake event?
-
And this is a tombstone for all the tales about the tracks of the Dyatlov group near the tent. This is also a direct indication that the two bodies in the forest, barely covered by snow, were brought by the stage props the 2-3 days before they were found.
Reference received by E. Koskina, in the Ural Department of the weather service.
It was snowing 1-4, 6-13, 15, 19-22, 25; heavy snow - 1, 21, 24-25; snowstorms of all kinds-4, 12-16, 23 in February 1959.
The nearest weather station to the pass is located in Burmantovo. And although from it to the pass 66 km, all multi-day phenomena capture a large area.
(https://i.imgur.com/7ko25ni.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/horEnxM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EIx1nM5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cBXNDFm.jpg)
-
Made several additions to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) .
..........................
Read in the General diary:
..................................
27.1.59. At 4 o'clock we started... We drove 8 km in 2 hours... It was getting dark.
January 28. We get up to rest at 5: 30...............
...............
Effectively it is possible that the photos you show are not authentic, because this kind of photographic faking is relatively easy to do.
I would like to know, according to your senario or interpretation, what are your answers to the following questions:
A // What exactly are the photos on the web page:
https://dyatlovpass.com/cameras
that aren't authentic, i.e., that have been faked ?
There are 126 of them in all, without those of Zolotaryov.
Krivonischenko's camera = (61)
Thibeaux-Brignolle's camera = (17)
Slobodin's camera = (12)
Unknown camera = (24)
Loose photos = (12)
B // Do these diary passages correspond to reality ?
The hikers normally spend the night of January 27-28, 1959 at North 2 = 2nd North = Second Severniye.
January 28 :
• " Started at 11.45. We go up the river Lozva. We take turns to head the group for about 10 minutes. Snow cover is significantly less than last year. We have to stop and scrape the wet, melting snow from the bottom of the skis. Yurka Kri is behind and makes topos of the route. The bank of the river near Second North (especially the right bank) are limestone cliffs that rise high at places. Overall the terrain becomes flatter, entirely covered by forest.
We stop to rest at 5:30 pm on river Lozva. Today we spend our first night in the tent. The guys are busy with the stove, sewing curtains out of sheets. With some thing completed and others not, we sit at dinner. "
• " Uncle Slava is leaving today on his horse, and Yura Yudin is leaving too. "
• " The weather is as warm as yesterday (T = -8° C) "
C // At what time did the hikers were :
a) attacked and defeated ?
b) held prisoner and possibly tortured ?
c) killed ?
Is it:
1 - On January 28th a little after 11.45 ?
2 - The evening or the night of January 28th ?
3 - The day of January 29th ?
4 - At a later date ?
D // The tent, the objects and films, the cache (labaz), the 9 corpses were gradually found (discovered) from 26 February 1959.
How many people were needed to set up near the Dyatlov Pass, before February 26, 1959, which would be a misleading staging ?
Among other difficulties, two strong porters per corpse were needed for transport from the vicinity of Second Severniye to the cedar area.
-
Made several additions to the main post (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) .
..........................
Read in the General diary:
..................................
27.1.59. At 4 o'clock we started... We drove 8 km in 2 hours... It was getting dark.
January 28. We get up to rest at 5: 30...............
...............
Effectively it is possible that the photos you show are not authentic, because this kind of photographic faking is relatively easy to do.
I would like to know, according to your senario or interpretation, what are your answers to the following questions:
A // What exactly are the photos on the web page:
https://dyatlovpass.com/cameras
that aren't authentic, i.e., that have been faked ?
There are 126 of them in all, without those of Zolotaryov.
Krivonischenko's camera = (61)
Thibeaux-Brignolle's camera = (17)
Slobodin's camera = (12)
Unknown camera = (24)
Loose photos = (12)
B // Do these diary passages correspond to reality ?
The hikers normally spend the night of January 27-28, 1959 at North 2 = 2nd North = Second Severniye.
January 28 :
• " Started at 11.45. We go up the river Lozva. We take turns to head the group for about 10 minutes. Snow cover is significantly less than last year. We have to stop and scrape the wet, melting snow from the bottom of the skis. Yurka Kri is behind and makes topos of the route. The bank of the river near Second North (especially the right bank) are limestone cliffs that rise high at places. Overall the terrain becomes flatter, entirely covered by forest.
We stop to rest at 5:30 pm on river Lozva. Today we spend our first night in the tent. The guys are busy with the stove, sewing curtains out of sheets. With some thing completed and others not, we sit at dinner. "
• " Uncle Slava is leaving today on his horse, and Yura Yudin is leaving too. "
• " The weather is as warm as yesterday (T = -8° C) "
All photos with members of Dyatlov's group after January 26 are forged. Except for a few photos of Thibault, who was actually photographed.
False events were recorded in all diaries after January 26.
All events after January 26 are fake.
C // At what time did the hikers were :
a) attacked and defeated ?
b) held prisoner and possibly tortured ?
c) killed ?
Is it:
1 - On January 28th a little after 11.45 ?
2 - The evening or the night of January 28th ?
3 - The day of January 29th ?
4 - At a later date ?
The group was taken on a passing track from Vishay on January 26 to the place of final stay and death. Dubinina was the first to be killed on January 30. Krivonishchenko was killed on February 8-10. The others were killed between these dates. Except for Thibault, who was killed between the first days of March and the beginning of April.
The second group of bodies was delivered in the period from the beginning to the middle of April
D // The tent, the objects and films, the cache (labaz), the 9 corpses were gradually found (discovered) from 26 February 1959.
How many people were needed to set up near the Dyatlov Pass, before February 26, 1959, which would be a misleading staging ?
Among other difficulties, two strong porters per corpse were needed for transport from the vicinity of Second Severniye to the cedar area.
The first batch of five corpses, personal belongings, and a tent were delivered at the beginning of February 20. The most convenient time is the night of February 23, 1959.
The first five bodies and the tent were comfortably delivered by sleigh or car across the ice of Lozva (so that there were no questions about the thickness of the ice - the fishermen on Lozva drive all types of cars (http://ribalovers.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&start=20) ), then Auspiа (the winter road along it was also on maps of the 1960s ); from it to the pass 1300 m of flat terrain. Sticking up a tent in an idiotic place and carrying bodies from persons like a group in this photo will take an hour.
There are 13 people here. The fourteenth person takes photos. Members of Dyatlov's group are inserted.
(https://i.imgur.com/jyas4VS.jpg)
-
And this is a tombstone for all the tales about the tracks of the Dyatlov group near the tent. This is also a direct indication that the two bodies in the forest, barely covered by snow, were brought by the stage props the 2-3 days before they were found.
Reference received by E. Koskina, in the Ural Department of the weather service.
It was snowing 1-4, 6-13, 15, 19-22, 25; heavy snow - 1, 21, 24-25; snowstorms of all kinds-4, 12-16, 23 in February 1959.
The nearest weather station to the pass is located in Burmantovo. And although from it to the pass 66 km, all multi-day phenomena capture a large area.
Ну зачем вы и тут опять начинаете вешать лапшу на уши читателям? Вам русских форумов мало?
Why are you lying to readers here? You have already been clearly explained several times on Russian forums (https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=12503.0 https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=38&tema=249#main_249 and other ) that you have absolutely no knowledge of what you are talking about, especially in the subtle properties of film photography and the ways of so-called "fake". They were people who know it very well. I didn't interfere in those conversations just because there were already quite a few qualified people there. People here know much less about the specifics of our discussions on this topic, so don't embarrass the country with your stupid fantasy. Anyway, I'm not going given`t it to you by starting expose your speculations.
If you start with the weather that you started speculating on, it's very easy. To talk about the weather in Burmantovo and compare it with what is happening on the pass and near it is complete bluff. Burmantovo is more than 60 km from the pass and more than 725 meters lower in absolute height. So the weather is as different as the sky is from the ground.
Here is a sheet compare the weather at the pass and at Burmantovo in January 2015, when we were there and recorded the weather on site. Other data (from Burmantovo) are from official sources - from weather station.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u1jwnPdGupHhO4P08eSXtXcDc7eQmfJ8/view?usp=sharing
So all your argumentation here no is worth broken penny grin1
-
And this is a tombstone for all the tales about the tracks of the Dyatlov group near the tent. This is also a direct indication that the two bodies in the forest, barely covered by snow, were brought by the stage props the 2-3 days before they were found.
Reference received by E. Koskina, in the Ural Department of the weather service.
It was snowing 1-4, 6-13, 15, 19-22, 25; heavy snow - 1, 21, 24-25; snowstorms of all kinds-4, 12-16, 23 in February 1959.
The nearest weather station to the pass is located in Burmantovo. And although from it to the pass 66 km, all multi-day phenomena capture a large area.
Ну зачем вы и тут опять начинаете вешать лапшу на уши читателям? Вам русских форумов мало?
Why are you lying to readers here? You have already been clearly explained several times on Russian forums (https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=12503.0 https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=38&tema=249#main_249 and other ) that you have absolutely no knowledge of what you are talking about, especially in the subtle properties of film photography and the ways of so-called "fake". They were people who know it very well. I didn't interfere in those conversations just because there were already quite a few qualified people there. People here know much less about the specifics of our discussions on this topic, so don't embarrass the country with your stupid fantasy. Anyway, I'm not going given`t it to you by starting expose your speculations.
If you start with the weather that you started speculating on, it's very easy. To talk about the weather in Burmantovo and compare it with what is happening on the pass and near it is complete bluff. Burmantovo is more than 60 km from the pass and more than 725 meters lower in absolute height. So the weather is as different as the sky is from the ground.
Here is a sheet compare the weather at the pass and at Burmantovo in January 2015, when we were there and recorded the weather on site. Other data (from Burmantovo) are from official sources - from weather station.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u1jwnPdGupHhO4P08eSXtXcDc7eQmfJ8/view?usp=sharing
So all your argumentation here no is worth broken penny grin1
Вы еще ничего вменяемого не придумали по представленным фактам, но врать всегда готовы.
On all top forums devoted to Dyatlov's group , photomontage is forbidden. Including on the forum of the writer Buyanov. There will be nothing but stupidity and insults. Researcher of the Dyatlov group Semiletov even deleted his forum Hibinafiles, when the topic of photomontage was discussed in a dozen sections.
Multi-day precipitation and snowstorms are a cyclone, and it captures not tens, but hundreds of kilometers.
Did the deceive the witness Dryahlyh when he testified about strong winds and snowdrifts in the first days of February? Was Blinov lying when he wrote about the impossibility of aerial reconnaissance over the upper course of the Auspea on February 21 due to bad weather? Even one of these events is more than enough to hide all the “traces of the members of the Dyatlov group” and two bodies not buried in the snow.
-
The first batch of five corpses, personal belongings, and a tent were delivered at the beginning of February 20. The most convenient time is the night of February 23, 1959.
The first five bodies and the tent were comfortably delivered by sleigh or car across the ice of Lozva (so that there were no questions about the thickness of the ice - the fishermen on Lozva drive all types of cars (http://ribalovers.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&start=20) ), then Auspiа (the winter road along it was also on maps of the 1960s ); from it to the pass 1300 m of flat terrain. Sticking up a tent in an idiotic place and carrying bodies from persons like a group in this photo will take an hour.
Have you ever been in winter in mountains? At night? Do you really think that it is possible to deliver the 5 bodies, set up tent etc plus clean up all footprints just during one night? To make it during one night they will need minimum 50 people or more to do it, and still not sure if it is possible, specially to not leave any marks. Simply it is not possible that the place was set up and arranged.
And I look on all of the photographs and I do not see anything forget in it. The light, shadows, depth of field, perspective and proportions are all correct. Years ago I was doing lots of black/white analogue photography, including processing films myself and I do not see anything suspicious in the photos.
In the case files is that Krivonischenko stubble beard was up to 0.5cm so could be a bit shorter too (from photos looks like bit shorter, but it do not matter), 0.5cm beard growing time is 8-12 days(not as you suggest 13-15 days) so he could easily have stubble like that on the 2nd February.
-
Most photos speak for themselves. I was really curious about the picture of the footprints, especially the one with a boot print. That boot print is fresh. If it had been there for a while, it would have been covered with snow like the bodies were.
-
Most photos speak for themselves. I was really curious about the picture of the footprints, especially the one with a boot print. That boot print is fresh. If it had been there for a while, it would have been covered with snow like the bodies were.
I'm also very curious about that particular footprint.
-
Most photos speak for themselves. I was really curious about the picture of the footprints, especially the one with a boot print. That boot print is fresh. If it had been there for a while, it would have been covered with snow like the bodies were.
I've already written about this trail on this forum several times. It is undoubtedly fresh footprint from ski boot, no more than 2 days ago. It's superimposed on older trail in the form of elevated platform.
Back in 2010 we discussed about this footprint with Mikhail Sharavin (he had found the tent very first) and he said that it could well be that he and Boris Slobtsov left this footprint.
The arguments could be that:
1. The trail was found on February 28, and the first time they went there was on February 26,
2. The location of its detection coincides with the route of their movement to the tent on February 26,
3. The shape of the footprint is exactly the same as the sole of the shoe they wore. But no one determined the size, so it's not exactly their footprint.
4. In more time, the footprint would have been blurred by the wind. It was impossible cover it by snow there, Sharavin said that it was on bulge, so the old trail in the platform form was exposed during its formation.
It should be added that it could have been trail of someone else in the search, as they walked there on February 27, before photographing the trail, but no one recorded anything.
-
The first batch of five corpses, personal belongings, and a tent were delivered at the beginning of February 20. The most convenient time is the night of February 23, 1959.
The first five bodies and the tent were comfortably delivered by sleigh or car across the ice of Lozva (so that there were no questions about the thickness of the ice - the fishermen on Lozva drive all types of cars (http://ribalovers.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&start=20) ), then Auspiа (the winter road along it was also on maps of the 1960s ); from it to the pass 1300 m of flat terrain. Sticking up a tent in an idiotic place and carrying bodies from persons like a group in this photo will take an hour.
Have you ever been in winter in mountains? At night? Do you really think that it is possible to deliver the 5 bodies, set up tent etc plus clean up all footprints just during one night? To make it during one night they will need minimum 50 people or more to do it, and still not sure if it is possible, specially to not leave any marks. Simply it is not possible that the place was set up and arranged.
And I look on all of the photographs and I do not see anything forget in it. The light, shadows, depth of field, perspective and proportions are all correct. Years ago I was doing lots of black/white analogue photography, including processing films myself and I do not see anything suspicious in the photos.
In the case files is that Krivonischenko stubble beard was up to 0.5cm so could be a bit shorter too (from photos looks like bit shorter, but it do not matter), 0.5cm beard growing time is 8-12 days(not as you suggest 13-15 days) so he could easily have stubble like that on the 2nd February.
Dear PJ !
You're trying to prove something to him in vain. Already many times on the Russian forums they told him the same thing. Even here he was objected with very similar words. As a result, there was no response. Then is it worth spending your strength? Although it is your right to decide what to do and what not to do.
For example, - objection to his "bluff facts".
For example, I can imagine photo Auspia-River`s section that is supposedly driven by car:
(https://c.radikal.ru/c41/2006/87/8031439f0f0dt.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c41/2006/87/8031439f0f0d.jpg)
I wouldn't be surprised if he called this picture as "fake", too.
To this we can add only that there is snow depth from 1 meter and more.
As you can see, this statement is complete nonsense. They don't even ride snowmobiles there, because the conditions are very bad for them. Snowmobiles use the old Mansi road where they used drive deer until the late 80s ago. It goes north and is much longer than along the Auspia river.
The car can travel only along the Lozva River to Vizhay, or little higher to river head. It is about 70 km Auspia River downstream than the mouth. Further upstream of the Vizhay, River there are often ice (water over the river ice) and scouring, so even snowmobile cannot always drive up the river.
The road along the Lozva River appeared much later than the events with Dyatlov's group. In 1959 there were trails for Mansi deer on some sections, but it was not everywhere.
The road appeared later, when they started cutting down the forest above the river. In 1959, the upper parts of the forest were just at the level of the village "41st quarter".
There was never any road along the Auspia River. There is a wetland path less than 1 meter wide, and the "plain terrain" (c) is Gorojanin, from the Auspia River to the pass (1300 m) is the same path, but very winding, with height difference of more than 300 meters and slope is of 12 to 30 degrees. Therefore its "initial information" can only be called bluff. I know this place better than I know my own ranch.
Well, about all the "conspiracy fakes of the place and the tent," it's, as they say, no comment. He's a couch theorist, so there's no point in him talking about mountains. You've made all the arguments right, but they've been brought before you many times.
From here you can conclude for yourself how expedient it is to have conversation with such a "connoisseur".
PS. You want what is I find topographical map piece with all this furniture?
-
And this is a tombstone for all the tales about the tracks of the Dyatlov group near the tent. This is also a direct indication that the two bodies in the forest, barely covered by snow, were brought by the stage props the 2-3 days before they were found.
Reference received by E. Koskina, in the Ural Department of the weather service.
It was snowing 1-4, 6-13, 15, 19-22, 25; heavy snow - 1, 21, 24-25; snowstorms of all kinds-4, 12-16, 23 in February 1959.
The nearest weather station to the pass is located in Burmantovo. And although from it to the pass 66 km, all multi-day phenomena capture a large area.
Ну зачем вы и тут опять начинаете вешать лапшу на уши читателям? Вам русских форумов мало?
Why are you lying to readers here? You have already been clearly explained several times on Russian forums (https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=12503.0 https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=38&tema=249#main_249 and other ) that you have absolutely no knowledge of what you are talking about, especially in the subtle properties of film photography and the ways of so-called "fake". They were people who know it very well. I didn't interfere in those conversations just because there were already quite a few qualified people there. People here know much less about the specifics of our discussions on this topic, so don't embarrass the country with your stupid fantasy. Anyway, I'm not going given`t it to you by starting expose your speculations.
If you start with the weather that you started speculating on, it's very easy. To talk about the weather in Burmantovo and compare it with what is happening on the pass and near it is complete bluff. Burmantovo is more than 60 km from the pass and more than 725 meters lower in absolute height. So the weather is as different as the sky is from the ground.
Here is a sheet compare the weather at the pass and at Burmantovo in January 2015, when we were there and recorded the weather on site. Other data (from Burmantovo) are from official sources - from weather station.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u1jwnPdGupHhO4P08eSXtXcDc7eQmfJ8/view?usp=sharing
So all your argumentation here no is worth broken penny grin1
Вы еще ничего вменяемого не придумали по представленным фактам, но врать всегда готовы.
По фактам или по тому бреду, который вы уже довольно долго предлагаете на всех форумах, которые только попадаются? Нет уж, поищите себе кого-нибудь поглупее, что бы так попусту тратить время.
On all top forums devoted to Dyatlov's group , photomontage is forbidden.
That's crazy. Who banned him? Maybe you could give Putin`s order? Is that how you price yourself? nea1 That's what they don't allow, it's blatant flood. In particular, yours, which you can't be offended by. These are the usual rules of the forums.
Including on the forum of the writer Buyanov.
Does "writer Buyanov" have his own forum? It is braking news! lol2 It is more like Galina Nikishina forum, and now other 2 administrators. It's very likely that you don't even know it. Buyanov is desperate minority there.
By the way, it is almost the only sane now forum in the Russian segment on this topic ... taina.li, unfortunately, degenerated into empty talk about nothing. Among other things, "thanks" to your efforts.
There will be nothing but stupidity and insults.
Well, you said it well. The important - thing is accurate self-criticism. clap1
Researcher of the Dyatlov group Semiletov even deleted his forum Hibinafiles, when the topic of photomontage was discussed in a dozen sections.
Don't deceive the readers here again, and so brazenly. Peter deleted his forum for a completely different reason. And no one there has discussed much of your fiction. 2 or 3 people tried to explain something to you, and then realized who they are dealing with and left this unpromising activity.
You did not forget about say that this forum was Ukrainian and in Russian?
It preserved the archive of the forum, so anyone can easily find out. Do you want link to it? tongue2 Local readers have only one obstacle - it is necessary to translate a lot, but if there is such a desire, they can easily do it with the help of Google-translator, for example.
Multi-day precipitation and snowstorms are a cyclone, and it captures not tens, but hundreds of kilometers.
Do you understand what you're being told? thanky1 I am talking about fact that it is useless draw any conclusions about pass weather according to any weather stations, which are located even close to pass itself, but lower in height. It's so different there that it's almost impossible calculate. All the more so with only one station. All the more so according to the one on the east side. And you're trying demagogue about miles here. Would you like add the whiskey i taste n the bars of Ivdel? Like the fact that you're not happy with him either? whacky1
Did the deceive the witness Dryahlyh when he testified about strong winds and snowdrifts in the first days of February? Was Blinov lying when he wrote about the impossibility of aerial reconnaissance over the upper course of the Auspea on February 21 due to bad weather? Even one of these events is more than enough to hide all the “traces of the members of the Dyatlov group” and two bodies not buried in the snow.
Did you decide make yourself look like by criminal connoisseur in yet another nonsense?
You can see from what's written that you don't understand anything. Or knowingly distort the meaning of what's written. First put your thoughts in order, and then make complaint. I pity the time refute all this nonsense, but it's all elementary, but too long.
It's the same method of demagoguery as before. Because that's not what it says, and you're substituting concepts.
I'm not going discuss it with you because it's tantamount talking to nothing. I have plenty of other questions from more competent and sane interlocutors.
-
Dear PJ !
You're trying to prove something to him in vain. Already many times on the Russian forums they told him the same thing. Even here he was objected with very similar words. As a result, there was no response. Then is it worth spending your strength? Although it is your right to decide what to do and what not to do.
No, I do not even try to prove something to him, just expressed my thoughts about all this "faked photos". This is why I just wrote short post. I could write explanation to each of the photo why it is not forged but I do not want to waste my time bang1
-
The first batch of five corpses, personal belongings, and a tent were delivered at the beginning of February 20. The most convenient time is the night of February 23, 1959.
The first five bodies and the tent were comfortably delivered by sleigh or car across the ice of Lozva (so that there were no questions about the thickness of the ice - the fishermen on Lozva drive all types of cars (http://ribalovers.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&start=20) ), then Auspiа (the winter road along it was also on maps of the 1960s ); from it to the pass 1300 m of flat terrain. Sticking up a tent in an idiotic place and carrying bodies from persons like a group in this photo will take an hour.
Have you ever been in winter in mountains? At night? Do you really think that it is possible to deliver the 5 bodies, set up tent etc plus clean up all footprints just during one night? To make it during one night they will need minimum 50 people or more to do it, and still not sure if it is possible, specially to not leave any marks. Simply it is not possible that the place was set up and arranged.
And I look on all of the photographs and I do not see anything forget in it. The light, shadows, depth of field, perspective and proportions are all correct. Years ago I was doing lots of black/white analogue photography, including processing films myself and I do not see anything suspicious in the photos.
In the case files is that Krivonischenko stubble beard was up to 0.5cm so could be a bit shorter too (from photos looks like bit shorter, but it do not matter), 0.5cm beard growing time is 8-12 days(not as you suggest 13-15 days) so he could easily have stubble like that on the 2nd February.
I grew up in the Altay mountains.
14 people - more than enough to hastily put up a tent, put things in, completely bury three corpses in the snow, throw two corpses in the snow. These left many traces in the snow. Participants in the search for the Dyatlov group testified about these traces. Photos of the tracks are in the criminal case.
“I see” and “I do not see” are not arguments.
In the picture, Krivonischenko is clearly shaved.
(http://9001.lt/1959/img/2/05.jpg)
The hair on the upper lip and chin grows at a rate of 0.32 - 0.38 mm per day.
Where does Thibault have a centimeter stubble in the morgue and the pathologist’s act, which has been growing for a month?
This is what Thibault looked like on January 26, 1959.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q3vh3XQ.jpg)
This is what Thibault looked like on February 1, 1959.
(https://i.imgur.com/CsnEyKK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4yN6RpB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FSJF07I.jpg)
This is how Thibault looked at the beginning of a three - week hike in the Altay Mountains on July 31-August 22, 1958, in which he did not shave. He's on the right.
(https://i.imgur.com/blliBa2.jpg)
This is how Thibault looked at the end of a three - week hike in the Altay Mountains on July 31-August 22, 1958, in which he did not shave.
(https://i.imgur.com/X4ltfVo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a8lIg46.jpg)
-
Most photos speak for themselves. I was really curious about the picture of the footprints, especially the one with a boot print. That boot print is fresh. If it had been there for a while, it would have been covered with snow like the bodies were.
This is a photo of a trace in a criminal case file. But the Dyatlov`s, Kolmogorov`s , Slobodin`s bodies were buried in the snow completely.
Traces near the tent could be left only by those who brought corpses and things on the eve of finding the tent.
(https://i.imgur.com/S97ZZaL.jpg)
-
Most photos speak for themselves. I was really curious about the picture of the footprints, especially the one with a boot print. That boot print is fresh. If it had been there for a while, it would have been covered with snow like the bodies were.
I've already written about this trail on this forum several times. It is undoubtedly fresh footprint from ski boot, no more than 2 days ago. It's superimposed on older trail in the form of elevated platform.
Back in 2010 we discussed about this footprint with Mikhail Sharavin (he had found the tent very first) and he said that it could well be that he and Boris Slobtsov left this footprint.
The arguments could be that:
1. The trail was found on February 28, and the first time they went there was on February 26,
2. The location of its detection coincides with the route of their movement to the tent on February 26,
3. The shape of the footprint is exactly the same as the sole of the shoe they wore. But no one determined the size, so it's not exactly their footprint.
4. In more time, the footprint would have been blurred by the wind. It was impossible cover it by snow there, Sharavin said that it was on bulge, so the old trail in the platform form was exposed during its formation.
It should be added that it could have been trail of someone else in the search, as they walked there on February 27, before photographing the trail, but no one recorded anything.
These are other traces on the pass, photographed by the participants in the search for the Dyatlov group.
Sharavin, Slobtsov, Maslennikov, Koptelov and other participants in the searches testified to the traces of the members of the Dyatlov group in the tent area.
It is impossible to bring bodies and things without leaving traces.
(https://i.imgur.com/e1Vk05Z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DUR8m8c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dMwxIgB.jpg)
-
And this is a tombstone for all the tales about the tracks of the Dyatlov group near the tent. This is also a direct indication that the two bodies in the forest, barely covered by snow, were brought by the stage props the 2-3 days before they were found.
Reference received by E. Koskina, in the Ural Department of the weather service.
It was snowing 1-4, 6-13, 15, 19-22, 25; heavy snow - 1, 21, 24-25; snowstorms of all kinds-4, 12-16, 23 in February 1959.
The nearest weather station to the pass is located in Burmantovo. And although from it to the pass 66 km, all multi-day phenomena capture a large area.
Ну зачем вы и тут опять начинаете вешать лапшу на уши читателям? Вам русских форумов мало?
Why are you lying to readers here? You have already been clearly explained several times on Russian forums (https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=12503.0 https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=38&tema=249#main_249 and other ) that you have absolutely no knowledge of what you are talking about, especially in the subtle properties of film photography and the ways of so-called "fake". They were people who know it very well. I didn't interfere in those conversations just because there were already quite a few qualified people there. People here know much less about the specifics of our discussions on this topic, so don't embarrass the country with your stupid fantasy. Anyway, I'm not going given`t it to you by starting expose your speculations.
If you start with the weather that you started speculating on, it's very easy. To talk about the weather in Burmantovo and compare it with what is happening on the pass and near it is complete bluff. Burmantovo is more than 60 km from the pass and more than 725 meters lower in absolute height. So the weather is as different as the sky is from the ground.
Here is a sheet compare the weather at the pass and at Burmantovo in January 2015, when we were there and recorded the weather on site. Other data (from Burmantovo) are from official sources - from weather station.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u1jwnPdGupHhO4P08eSXtXcDc7eQmfJ8/view?usp=sharing
So all your argumentation here no is worth broken penny grin1
Вы еще ничего вменяемого не придумали по представленным фактам, но врать всегда готовы.
По фактам или по тому бреду, который вы уже довольно долго предлагаете на всех форумах, которые только попадаются? Нет уж, поищите себе кого-нибудь поглупее, что бы так попусту тратить время.
On all top forums devoted to Dyatlov's group , photomontage is forbidden.
That's crazy. Who banned him? Maybe you could give Putin`s order? Is that how you price yourself? nea1 That's what they don't allow, it's blatant flood. In particular, yours, which you can't be offended by. These are the usual rules of the forums.
Including on the forum of the writer Buyanov.
Does "writer Buyanov" have his own forum? It is braking news! lol2 It is more like Galina Nikishina forum, and now other 2 administrators. It's very likely that you don't even know it. Buyanov is desperate minority there.
By the way, it is almost the only sane now forum in the Russian segment on this topic ... taina.li, unfortunately, degenerated into empty talk about nothing. Among other things, "thanks" to your efforts.
There will be nothing but stupidity and insults.
Well, you said it well. The important - thing is accurate self-criticism. clap1
Researcher of the Dyatlov group Semiletov even deleted his forum Hibinafiles, when the topic of photomontage was discussed in a dozen sections.
Don't deceive the readers here again, and so brazenly. Peter deleted his forum for a completely different reason. And no one there has discussed much of your fiction. 2 or 3 people tried to explain something to you, and then realized who they are dealing with and left this unpromising activity.
You did not forget about say that this forum was Ukrainian and in Russian?
It preserved the archive of the forum, so anyone can easily find out. Do you want link to it? tongue2 Local readers have only one obstacle - it is necessary to translate a lot, but if there is such a desire, they can easily do it with the help of Google-translator, for example.
Multi-day precipitation and snowstorms are a cyclone, and it captures not tens, but hundreds of kilometers.
Do you understand what you're being told? thanky1 I am talking about fact that it is useless draw any conclusions about pass weather according to any weather stations, which are located even close to pass itself, but lower in height. It's so different there that it's almost impossible calculate. All the more so with only one station. All the more so according to the one on the east side. And you're trying demagogue about miles here. Would you like add the whiskey i taste n the bars of Ivdel? Like the fact that you're not happy with him either? whacky1
Did the deceive the witness Dryahlyh when he testified about strong winds and snowdrifts in the first days of February? Was Blinov lying when he wrote about the impossibility of aerial reconnaissance over the upper course of the Auspea on February 21 due to bad weather? Even one of these events is more than enough to hide all the “traces of the members of the Dyatlov group” and two bodies not buried in the snow.
Did you decide make yourself look like by criminal connoisseur in yet another nonsense?
You can see from what's written that you don't understand anything. Or knowingly distort the meaning of what's written. First put your thoughts in order, and then make complaint. I pity the time refute all this nonsense, but it's all elementary, but too long.
It's the same method of demagoguery as before. Because that's not what it says, and you're substituting concepts.
I'm not going discuss it with you because it's tantamount talking to nothing. I have plenty of other questions from more competent and sane interlocutors.
Я ничего не увидел, кроме флуда.
Форум обсуждает перевал Дятлова или мою персону?
I saw nothing but flood.
This forum discusses any of the dyatlov pass incident or my persona?
***
Это форум отца-основателя Буянова.
This is the forum of the founding father Buyanov.
https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=38&tema=249&all=1
(https://i.imgur.com/38yLxLK.jpg)
-
........................
All photos with members of Dyatlov's group after January 26 are forged. Except for a few photos of Thibault, who was actually photographed.
...............................................
Many thanks Gorojanin for your explanations. I now understand your reconstitution of the DPI.
Were all photos after January 26 were forged ? It is possible because the photographic forgery is a long and meticulous work, but which is relatively easy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_images_in_the_Soviet_Union
But that is a question of no importance.
Because the existence of the photomontages does not prove that all events after January 26 are fake.
The purpose of these photomontages were NOT to cover up the traces of a crime (intentional destruction of people for the sake of hiding something),
Most likely, those who developed the negatives entrusted to them made a serious mistake.
Something like a developer that is too old and out of order, a boisterous child who arrives unexpectedly and turns on the light at the wrong time, confusion between developer and fixer.......etc. This kind of mistake is not exceptional precisely when one is in a hurry!
The film are damaged and obviously there is no possibility to start again the shootings.
But from the wreckage that remains, it is possible to repair the fault, to redo suitable and presentable photos.
Without doing this laboratory work consisting of extensive retouching, the final images would have been unusable.
The photos have been retouched or reconstructed NOT to mislead those who use them, but on the contrary to improve the readability and quality of the final images.
The result is good and the errors in perspective or contrast are small because the majority of those who look at the retouched result do not notice them
......................................................................
False events were recorded in all diaries after January 26.
All events after January 26 are fake.
The group was taken on a passing track from Vishay on January 26 to the place of final stay and death. Dubinina was the first to be killed on January 30. Krivonishchenko was killed on February 8-10. The others were killed between these dates. Except for Thibault, who was killed between the first days of March and the beginning of April.
The second group of bodies was delivered in the period from the beginning to the middle of April.
The first batch of five corpses, personal belongings, and a tent were delivered at the beginning of February 20. The most convenient time is the night of February 23, 1959.
The first five bodies and the tent were comfortably delivered by sleigh or car across the ice of Lozva (so that there were no questions about the thickness of the ice -then Auspi? (the winter road along it was also on maps of the 1960s ); from it to the pass 1300 m of flat terrain. Sticking up a tent in an idiotic place and carrying bodies from persons like a group in this photo will take an hour.
There are 13 people here. The fourteenth person takes photos. Members of Dyatlov's group are inserted.
.............................................
Have you ever been in winter in mountains? At night? Do you really think that it is possible to deliver the 5 bodies, set up tent etc plus clean up all footprints just during one night? To make it during one night they will need minimum 50 people or more to do it, and still not sure if it is possible, specially to not leave any marks. Simply it is not possible that the place was set up and arranged.
..........................................
Givent that the hikers were supposed to be killed at North-2, transportation from North-2 to the tent, cedar, or den is theoretically feasible since the time period available was about 20 days (approximately February 1-20, 1959).
On condition that there were professional teams trained to work hard in bad weather at -25°C, which may exist in Siberia.
Then the construction of the staging, the deletion of the signs in the snow are difficult because good observers, such as the Mansis, could have noticed the slightest anomaly.
From Vizhay to North-2, through the Lozva valley, the logistics to feed this numerous work teams were probably done by truck.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Dyatlov-pass-contemporary-008.jpg)
There are other arguments against this hypothesis of the "hostages killed at North-2".
Yuri Yudin's mentality, which would then be exceptionally bizarre, the high number of accomplices, the writing of diaries under duress, the guarding and management of prisoners, etc., are all factors that could lead to the death penalty.
And finally WHO ? - WHY ? (All these huge complications).
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
It is still simpler to let the 9 hikers make the effort to go voluntarily to the place of their death (Kholat Syakhl, cedar,den) using their own legs.
than to be obliged to carry their corpses on sleds in deep snow
So I have a preference for my own reconstitution (which I call my hypothesis N° 2) which is more straightforward and and above all which takes into account all the proven information provided by Teddy on the dyatlovpass.com website. Here are some ideas:
• The attackers came from the Vizhay region, maybe even simply from settlement 41.
• The attackers were ex-zeks who had a lot of reasons to hate the elite of communist builders.
• The attackers left North-2 on the morning of January 31, 1959 to catch the hikers.
• On the evening of January 31 Thibeaux-Brignolles was able to photograph the lead pursuer.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Thibeaux-Brignolle-camera-film3-17.jpg)
The KGB realized too late that they had been fooled by the attackers who had succeeded to defeat the hikers by hitting them with blunt objects.
The ex-zeks were a cause of concern for Khrushchev (1953-1964) who for reasons of diplomacy with satellite countries did not want to divulge the DPI. Thus Khrushchev ordered the replacement of Vladimir Korotaev by Lev Ivanov on 17 March 1959.
Lev Ivanov cleverly misled the public by suggesting false possibilities.
In particular, Lev Ivanov did NOT give any informations - which would have been important - about the people living in Vizhay and Settlement 41, nor about the people passing through North-2.
I plan to complete and clarify (slowly because it is long to write) this argumentation in the Topic: "Altercation on the pass ---> Altercation on the pass".
-
........................
All photos with members of Dyatlov's group after January 26 are forged. Except for a few photos of Thibault, who was actually photographed.
...............................................
Many thanks Gorojanin for your explanations. I now understand your reconstitution of the DPI.
Were all photos after January 26 were forged ? It is possible because the photographic forgery is a long and meticulous work, but which is relatively easy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_images_in_the_Soviet_Union
But that is a question of no importance.
Because the existence of the photomontages does not prove that all events after January 26 are fake.
The purpose of these photomontages were NOT to cover up the traces of a crime (intentional destruction of people for the sake of hiding something),
Most likely, those who developed the negatives entrusted to them made a serious mistake.
Something like a developer that is too old and out of order, a boisterous child who arrives unexpectedly and turns on the light at the wrong time, confusion between developer and fixer.......etc. This kind of mistake is not exceptional precisely when one is in a hurry!
The film are damaged and obviously there is no possibility to start again the shootings.
But from the wreckage that remains, it is possible to repair the fault, to redo suitable and presentable photos.
Without doing this laboratory work consisting of extensive retouching, the final images would have been unusable.
The photos have been retouched or reconstructed NOT to mislead those who use them, but on the contrary to improve the readability and quality of the final images.
The result is good and the errors in perspective or contrast are small because the majority of those who look at the retouched result do not notice them
The photo montage is primitive, hastily made, with childish mistakes.
In the 19th century, they made a better photo montage.
Photomontage of the so-called filming of the members of the Dyatlov group is available to the amateur at home or in any room that has water and electricity.
.............................................
Have you ever been in winter in mountains? At night? Do you really think that it is possible to deliver the 5 bodies, set up tent etc plus clean up all footprints just during one night? To make it during one night they will need minimum 50 people or more to do it, and still not sure if it is possible, specially to not leave any marks. Simply it is not possible that the place was set up and arranged.
..........................................
Givent that the hikers were supposed to be killed at North-2, transportation from North-2 to the tent, cedar, or den is theoretically feasible since the time period available was about 20 days (approximately February 1-20, 1959).
On condition that there were professional teams trained to work hard in bad weather at -25°C, which may exist in Siberia.
Then the construction of the staging, the deletion of the signs in the snow are difficult because good observers, such as the Mansis, could have noticed the slightest anomaly.
From Vizhay to North-2, through the Lozva valley, the logistics to feed this numerous work teams were probably done by truck.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Dyatlov-pass-contemporary-008.jpg)
There are other arguments against this hypothesis of the "hostages killed at North-2".
Yuri Yudin's mentality, which would then be exceptionally bizarre, the high number of accomplices, the writing of diaries under duress, the guarding and management of prisoners, etc., are all factors that could lead to the death penalty.
I grew up in the Altay mountains. And now I live in the flat Altay, in Barnaul. Hiking, skiing, and mountains are familiar from childhood (1960's). Therefore, it is funny to read experts in Hiking, skiing and mountains from places where there is no snow.
Until February 18, sending a truck or sleigh is not possible. The tent of the Sogrin group, used as the main stage props, could be received only on February 18.
The journey will take a maximum of two days.
The task can easily be done by 10-15 people. No special teams needed. Any resident of Siberia or the Northern Urals will cope with this. In Barnaul every winter there are always multi-day periods with temperatures below -30. No service is shutting down, utilities, movers, outdoor cops continue to work.
Every winter there are some days with a temperature of -40. It's really hard to travel and work outside on these days.
On February 22-24, at the Burmantovo weather station, 66 kilometers from the pass, the average temperature was 13.5; 19.3; 17.2 degrees. These are comfortable conditions for residents of Siberia and the Northern Urals.
(https://i.imgur.com/horEnxM.jpg)
And finally WHO ? - WHY ? (All these huge complications).
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
It is still simpler to let the 9 hikers make the effort to go voluntarily to the place of their death (Kholat Syakhl, cedar,den) using their own legs.
than to be obliged to carry their corpses on sleds in deep snow
So I have a preference for my own reconstitution (which I call my hypothesis N° 2) which is more straightforward and and above all which takes into account all the proven information provided by Teddy on the dyatlovpass.com website. Here are some ideas:
• The attackers came from the Vizhay region, maybe even simply from settlement 41.
• The attackers were ex-zeks who had a lot of reasons to hate the elite of communist builders.
• The attackers left North-2 on the morning of January 31, 1959 to catch the hikers.
• On the evening of January 31 Thibeaux-Brignolles was able to photograph the lead pursuer.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Thibeaux-Brignolle-camera-film3-17.jpg)
The KGB realized too late that they had been fooled by the attackers who had succeeded to defeat the hikers by hitting them with blunt objects.
The ex-zeks were a cause of concern for Khrushchev (1953-1964) who for reasons of diplomacy with satellite countries did not want to divulge the DPI. Thus Khrushchev ordered the replacement of Vladimir Korotaev by Lev Ivanov on 17 March 1959.
Lev Ivanov cleverly misled the public by suggesting false possibilities.
In particular, Lev Ivanov did NOT give any informations - which would have been important - about the people living in Vizhay and Settlement 41, nor about the people passing through North-2.
I plan to complete and clarify (slowly because it is long to write) this argumentation in the Topic: "Altercation on the pass ---> Altercation on the pass".
Filming in Settlement 41 and North-2 is completely falsified. Events in the diaries too. This means that the group of Dyatlov was taken away from Vizhay.
-
Therefore, it is funny to read experts in Hiking, skiing and mountains from places where there is no snow.
Gorojanin, if this is about me, just want to let you know that I got a chance to touch snow in my life. I was in Altay Mounatins too. Twice. Climbed there Belukha, 20 years of October(Koron Altai), Mashey-Bashi and Aktru(btw, Altai are the best and most beautiful mountains in my opinion), hiked in early spring in North Ural and did some winter climbing in Caucasus. Few other winter trips to far north in other countries. So I know a bit about hiking and snow. Plus I take part in few rescue actions so I know how it is to transport causalities/bodies(how hard it is).
The task can easily be done by 10-15 people. No special teams needed. Any resident of Siberia or the Northern Urals will cope with this. In Barnaul every winter there are always multi-day periods with temperatures below -30. No service is shutting down, utilities, movers, outdoor cops continue to work.
Every winter there are some days with a temperature of -40. It's really hard to travel and work outside on these days.
On February 22-24, at the Burmantovo weather station, 66 kilometers from the pass, the average temperature was 13.5; 19.3; 17.2 degrees. These are comfortable conditions for residents of Siberia and the Northern Urals.
I do not say that people living there are not used to harsh winter conditions. The problem is that it is not possible to set everything during one night(you said that all was arranges during one night) by a group of 10-15 people. I explain you why:
- The nearest possible place to get by truck was 20km from the scene. So it mean all had to be move by people on that distance. To move all hiking equipment they need 9 people(same number as Diatlov Group) plus to move 5 dead bodies - the minimum is 2 people per body so it makes 10. To make it during one night, in winter and set up everything, they had to move very fast so much more people needed to split the load, minimum double so about 40 people for the action. Ask anyone that have some experience in МЧС how many people is needed for actions like that.
And there is one, very weak point in all this story. Why do you think that they set it up everything after 18th February? The deadline for return of the Dyatlov Group was 12th February so if someone killed them, all should be done by that date because the Search and Rescues could start at any day after the 12th. Waiting till 18th or later will be very risky and with huge chance to be spotted with all the gear and bodies... only some idiots will wait that long.
The photo montage is primitive, hastily made, with childish mistakes.
In the 19th century, they made a better photo montage.
Photomontage of the so-called filming of the members of the Dyatlov group is available to the amateur at home or in any room that has water and electricity.
There is no single thing suggesting that any of the photo is a montage. They looks as any photos from that times
And about faked diaries - are they still exist? It is easy to check how they was written and by who. It is relatively easy expertise.
-
I do not say that people living there are not used to harsh winter conditions. The problem is that it is not possible to set everything during one night(you said that all was arranges during one night) by a group of 10-15 people. I explain you why:
- The nearest possible place to get by truck was 20km from the scene. So it mean all had to be move by people on that distance. To move all hiking equipment they need 9 people(same number as Diatlov Group) plus to move 5 dead bodies - the minimum is 2 people per body so it makes 10. To make it during one night, in winter and set up everything, they had to move very fast so much more people needed to split the load, minimum double so about 40 people for the action. Ask anyone that have some experience in МЧС how many people is needed for actions like that.
And there is one, very weak point in all this story. Why do you think that they set it up everything after 18th February? The deadline for return of the Dyatlov Group was 12th February so if someone killed them, all should be done by that date because the Search and Rescues could start at any day after the 12th. Waiting till 18th or later will be very risky and with huge chance to be spotted with all the gear and bodies... only some idiots will wait that long.
No. The winter road along the Auspiya river was still on maps in the 1960s. It is available if not for motor transport, then for a horse cart and any Northern sleigh. From Auspiya to the pass 1300 m of flat terrain. This path is accessible on foot, with corpses and things on hand sleds.
(https://i.imgur.com/L5sHpMa.jpg)
On February 18, the tent of the Sogrin group, available for stage props, became available.
(https://i.imgur.com/uWk5cSo.jpg)
Waiting till 18th or later will be very risky and with huge chance to be spotted with all the gear and bodies... only some idiots will wait that long.
Nobody bothered the chances of being noticed. They were looking for tourists or corpses of tourists, not motor vehicles or sleighs with horses.
The photo montage is primitive, hastily made, with childish mistakes.
In the 19th century, they made a better photo montage.
Photomontage of the so-called filming of the members of the Dyatlov group is available to the amateur at home or in any room that has water and electricity.
There is no single thing suggesting that any of the photo is a montage. They looks as any photos from that times
And about faked diaries - are they still exist? It is easy to check how they was written and by who. It is relatively easy expertise.
On the set photos of members of the Dyatlov group, the photo montage is continuous, and solid errors. No one conducted examinations on the authenticity of a single photograph of members of the Dyatlov group. Not even one media can even talk about such an examination.
Diaries were supplemented by members of the Dyatlov group in their handwriting under duress.
-
How do you know?
-
How do you know?
From facts, documents, photos.
-
No. The winter road along the Auspiya river was still on maps in the 1960s. It is available if not for motor transport, then for a horse cart and any Northern sleigh. From Auspiya to the pass 1300 m of flat terrain. This path is accessible on foot, with corpses and things on hand sleds.
There could be everything on the map. The fact is that during the search they set up Search Camp high in the Auspiya river valley, close to the place where Dyatlov Group left deposit. I didn't found any records saying that the Search Group go there by any vehicle or sledges to the camp. All records say that supply was delivered by helicopters or people go down on skies. Even when one person got sick they waited for helicopter one day(weather wasn't good to fly). So all this facts mean there was no easy access to the Auspiya river. The Search Group could use any vehicle able to travel in snow, only if there will be access to that place but looks like it was not possible at all. I think that the place accessible by vehicle was the place where Auspiya river connect with Lozva river(around the place where Dyatlov Group camped on 29th January). From this place still 20km to the scene.
Nobody bothered the chances of being noticed. They were looking for tourists or corpses of tourists, not motor vehicles or sleighs with horses
This is very naive. Going up to the mountains with full load, in isolated place, where everyone see everything and remember each passing human and vehicle. Do you think that nobody will ask them for what are there going there? with what? And finally setting camp, moving around dead bodies - if someone will spot them what will they say? Doing all this action after 12th February will be very risky. Much easier will be hide the equipment and gear somewhere away, in place where nobody will be looking for them.
Diaries were supplemented by members of the Dyatlov group in their handwriting under duress.
Graphologist easily will find out that the diaries were written under duress. The handwriting is different depends of conditions(tired/relaxed/duress/standing/sitting/lie down/etc...) plus the style/words will be different than usually.
-
There could be everything on the map. The fact is that during the search they set up Search Camp high in the Auspiya river valley, close to the place where Dyatlov Group left deposit. I didn't found any records saying that the Search Group go there by any vehicle or sledges to the camp. All records say that supply was delivered by helicopters or people go down on skies. Even when one person got sick they waited for helicopter one day(weather wasn't good to fly). So all this facts mean there was no easy access to the Auspiya river. The Search Group could use any vehicle able to travel in snow, only if there will be access to that place but looks like it was not possible at all. I think that the place accessible by vehicle was the place where Auspiya river connect with Lozva river(around the place where Dyatlov Group camped on 29th January). From this place still 20km to the scene.
Search teams were instructed to inspect their parts of the territory where they were delivered by helicopter. They did not need to use winter roads.
This is very naive. Going up to the mountains with full load, in isolated place, where everyone see everything and remember each passing human and vehicle. Do you think that nobody will ask them for what are there going there? with what? And finally setting camp, moving around dead bodies - if someone will spot them what will they say? Doing all this action after 12th February will be very risky. Much easier will be hide the equipment and gear somewhere away, in place where nobody will be looking for them.
Aerial reconnaissance on February 21 ended in failure due to bad weather. The first organized search group from the Ural Polytechnic Institute was delivered by helicopter to mount Otorten only on February 23. Military groups joined on February 25-26.
Even if the trip lasts more than a day, the problem is solved by the second driver of the car or the second charioteer.
Graphologist easily will find out that the diaries were written under duress. The handwriting is different depends of conditions(tired/relaxed/duress/standing/sitting/lie down/etc...) plus the style/words will be different than usually.
Make such an examination. Keeping in mind that there are only two handwritten diaries.
-
Search teams were instructed to inspect their parts of the territory where they were delivered by helicopter. They did not need to use winter roads.
Only at the first stage of the search, after finding the tent they set up big Search Camp in Auspiya river valley, if that will be possible they will use vehicle to access that place to supply everything but they use only helicopters, all supplies was dropped on the pass and have to be taken down by people. Much easier will be making delivery by vehicles. Looks like was not possible at all.
Aerial reconnaissance on February 21 ended in failure due to bad weather. The first organized search group from the Ural Polytechnic Institute was delivered by helicopter to mount Otorten only on February 23. Military groups joined on February 25-26.
Even if the trip lasts more than a day, the problem is solved by the second driver of the car or the second charioteer.
What if the search will start earlier? Just few days after missing deadline?
Make such an examination. Keeping in mind that there are only two handwritten diaries.
I do not have any problems with the diaries, for me they are not fake.
You are making claims that all is fake there so you could proof it, very easy way for you to do it. Two handwritten diaries is enough evidence for making examination like that, even one will be enough.
-
Search teams were instructed to inspect their parts of the territory where they were delivered by helicopter. They did not need to use winter roads.
Only at the first stage of the search, after finding the tent they set up big Search Camp in Auspiya river valley, if that will be possible they will use vehicle to access that place to supply everything but they use only helicopters, all supplies was dropped on the pass and have to be taken down by people. Much easier will be making delivery by vehicles. Looks like was not possible at all.
Aerial reconnaissance on February 21 ended in failure due to bad weather. The first organized search group from the Ural Polytechnic Institute was delivered by helicopter to mount Otorten only on February 23. Military groups joined on February 25-26.
Even if the trip lasts more than a day, the problem is solved by the second driver of the car or the second charioteer.
What if the search will start earlier? Just few days after missing deadline?
The curator of the search works, an accomplice of the Creator, will not allow the search to begin at a time when what should be found is not ready, and will not conduct the search in a way that will open what should not be opened. He will do this for the same reason that the curator in law enforcement, the Creator's accomplice, Prosecutor Ivanov will not investigate the circumstances that may open the play.
This is the General rule of such productions. Let me quote:
Everything is standard, as in all perfomances. In January 2009, hundreds of search engines searched for “Mi-171 passengers” everywhere except Chorny mountain, while chopped people and wreckage were laid out there (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/8443.html) . Thousands of employees of the Ministry of Emergencies, the Ministry of Internal Affairs took part in the search for “An-2 passengers” near Serov in 2012, when a small group brought and burned wreckage and bones two steps from the airfield (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/66778.html) ...
Make such an examination. Keeping in mind that there are only two handwritten diaries.
I do not have any problems with the diaries, for me they are not fake.
You are making claims that all is fake there so you could proof it, very easy way for you to do it. Two handwritten diaries is enough evidence for making examination like that, even one will be enough.
Kolmogorova`s handwritten diary was undoubtedly written by Kolmogorova wrote. Dubinina's handwritten diary was undoubtedly written by Dubinina. This is clear when comparing the handwriting of the diaries with the handwriting of other texts written by Kolmogorova and Dubinina.
To study the process of writing diaries under duress, as well as to study the forgery of the campaign, it is impossible for researchers of the Dyatlov group, departments and mass media. This is forbidden for all researchers of the Dyatlov group, just as it is forbidden to study fake photos.
-
The curator of the search works, an accomplice of the Creator, will not allow the search to begin at a time when what should be found is not ready, and will not conduct the search in a way that will open what should not be opened. He will do this for the same reason that the curator in law enforcement, the Creator's accomplice, Prosecutor Ivanov will not investigate the circumstances that may open the play.
This is the General rule of such productions. Let me quote:
Everything is standard, as in all perfomances. In January 2009, hundreds of search engines searched for “Mi-171 passengers” everywhere except Chorny mountain, while chopped people and wreckage were laid out there (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/8443.html) . Thousands of employees of the Ministry of Emergencies, the Ministry of Internal Affairs took part in the search for “An-2 passengers” near Servo in 2012, when a small group brought and burned wreckage and bones two steps from the airfield (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/66778.html) ...
And you manipulating with facts again:
The Mi-171 crash in Altai: It was illegal trip of VIPs to hunt in protected area on protected animals, the flight plan never said anything that they will be in that region so this is why nobody search for them there. The pilots not inform about position for the same reason as they was doing illegal things. And yeah, this crash was a huge scandal but only because some prominent VIP was hunting on protected animals.
The An-2 in Servo: They took off without permission, nobody knows where the aircraft was because pilot not keep communication, they find out about the crash hours after take off so the plane could be everywhere. The An-2 was not fitted with EPIRB so never sent any distress signal about impact. The aircraft was found accidentally by hunters in dense forest and boggy land 8km from Serov months after the crash. They couldn't find it earlier because nobody knows where it could be, the search operation cover more than one million square kilometers of terrain - that's a lot.. and it is mostly terrain covered by forest so it was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Finding an aircraft that crashed and not sent any proximity position is very hard.
Kolmogorova`s handwritten diary was undoubtedly written by Kolmogorova wrote. Dubinina's handwritten diary was undoubtedly written by Dubinina. This is clear when comparing the handwriting of the diaries with the handwriting of other texts written by Kolmogorova and Dubinina.
To study the process of writing diaries under duress, as well as to study the forgery of the campaign, it is impossible for researchers of the Dyatlov group, departments and mass media. This is forbidden for all researchers of the Dyatlov group, just as it is forbidden to study fake photos.
why it is impossible? Who prohibited it?
-
The curator of the search works, an accomplice of the Creator, will not allow the search to begin at a time when what should be found is not ready, and will not conduct the search in a way that will open what should not be opened. He will do this for the same reason that the curator in law enforcement, the Creator's accomplice, Prosecutor Ivanov will not investigate the circumstances that may open the play.
This is the General rule of such productions. Let me quote:
Everything is standard, as in all perfomances. In January 2009, hundreds of search engines searched for “Mi-171 passengers” everywhere except Chorny mountain, while chopped people and wreckage were laid out there (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/8443.html) . Thousands of employees of the Ministry of Emergencies, the Ministry of Internal Affairs took part in the search for “An-2 passengers” near Servo in 2012, when a small group brought and burned wreckage and bones two steps from the airfield (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/66778.html) ...
And you manipulating with facts again:
The Mi-171 crash in Altai: It was illegal trip of VIPs to hunt in protected area on protected animals, the flight plan never said anything that they will be in that region so this is why nobody search for them there. The pilots not inform about position for the same reason as they was doing illegal things. And yeah, this crash was a huge scandal but only because some prominent VIP was hunting on protected animals.
The An-2 in Servo: They took off without permission, nobody knows where the aircraft was because pilot not keep communication, they find out about the crash hours after take off so the plane could be everywhere. The An-2 was not fitted with EPIRB so never sent any distress signal about impact. The aircraft was found accidentally by hunters in dense forest and boggy land 8km from Serov months after the crash. They couldn't find it earlier because nobody knows where it could be, the search operation cover more than one million square kilometers of terrain - that's a lot.. and it is mostly terrain covered by forest so it was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Finding an aircraft that crashed and not sent any proximity position is very hard.
Why is there no blood on the bodies, on the body parts, on the cockpit instruments where the pilot was allegedly torn in half?
https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/8443.html
https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/8574.html
https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/8738.html
Where does the smell of burning come from a year after the fire?
Why were people burned to the bone, but the branches, the insulation of the wires, the gold chain among the bones remained intact?
https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/66778.html
Kolmogorova`s handwritten diary was undoubtedly written by Kolmogorova wrote. Dubinina's handwritten diary was undoubtedly written by Dubinina. This is clear when comparing the handwriting of the diaries with the handwriting of other texts written by Kolmogorova and Dubinina.
To study the process of writing diaries under duress, as well as to study the forgery of the campaign, it is impossible for researchers of the Dyatlov group, departments and mass media. This is forbidden for all researchers of the Dyatlov group, just as it is forbidden to study fake photos.
why it is impossible? Who prohibited it?
Because these are facts. There is not a single word about falsification of photographs, writing diaries under duress, or falsification of a campaign by any researcher, writer, journalist, or justice authority. There is no examination of the authenticity of photographs or writing diary entries of their own free will. Not a single word is said about the necessity, desirability of such an examination.
-
Because these are facts. There is not a single word about falsification of photographs, writing diaries under duress, or falsification of a campaign by any researcher, writer, journalist, or justice authority. There is no examination of the authenticity of photographs or writing diary entries of their own free will. Not a single word is said about the necessity, desirability of such an examination.
[/quote]
More like because it is so ridiculous, that it does not even fit for a theory. Don`t you think, that since you are the only one imagining forgery and falsifications, the problem is in you? There are a lot of absurd speculations about the Pass, but yours simply goes beyond. Sorry, but a murderous Yeti piloting a fire orb sounds better.
-
More like because it is so ridiculous, that it does not even fit for a theory. Don`t you think, that since you are the only one imagining forgery and falsifications, the problem is in you? There are a lot of absurd speculations about the Pass, but yours simply goes beyond. Sorry, but a murderous Yeti piloting a fire orb sounds better.
No one could say anything sane against concrete and clear facts.
-
More like because it is so ridiculous, that it does not even fit for a theory. Don`t you think, that since you are the only one imagining forgery and falsifications, the problem is in you? There are a lot of absurd speculations about the Pass, but yours simply goes beyond. Sorry, but a murderous Yeti piloting a fire orb sounds better.
No one could say anything sane against concrete and clear facts.
That applies to you in full force. Non of the "facts" you state are actual facts, and I can`t really see anything "sane" here. Only vague interpretations, clearly not supported by photographic knowledge. But whatever makes you happy. It is good to see that you are at least consistent, since you seek "forgery" in pretty much everything, or at least in every incident photo. Good luck with that, Gorojanin. thumb1
-
That applies to you in full force. Non of the "facts" you state are actual facts, and I can`t really see anything "sane" here. Only vague interpretations, clearly not supported by photographic knowledge. But whatever makes you happy. It is good to see that you are at least consistent, since you seek "forgery" in pretty much everything, or at least in every incident photo. Good luck with that, Gorojanin. thumb1
I really see or I can`t really see are not facts. thanky1
-
Sarapuk, Could more falling snow have hidden the tracks closer to the tree line? I say this because there were no footprints from the cedar tree to the Zina, Igor and Slobodin bodies going uphill. It took 2 more days to find them after the Georgy and Yuri.
Did Zina, Igor and Rustem actually walk back up towards the tent or did they walk-crawl or just crawl back up?
-
Sarapuk, Could more falling snow have hidden the tracks closer to the tree line? I say this because there were no footprints from the cedar tree to the Zina, Igor and Slobodin bodies going uphill. It took 2 more days to find them after the Georgy and Yuri.
Did Zina, Igor and Rustem actually walk back up towards the tent or did they walk-crawl or just crawl back up?
New publication (https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com/87702.html) . Unfortunately, it has not been translated yet. In short, the essence. Tracks on the pass, allegedly belonging to members of the Dyatlov group, disappeared from the wind for two days. The tracks in the forest near the cedar disappeared in one day. Therefore, all traces recorded in the criminal case could only be left by the bearers of props.
-
In rereading some of the information on this forum, I noticed that (for the group) there were supposed to be three cameras. I am not sure if that means that the school provided the group items or if it just means that (in the case of the cameras) three individuals were supposed to bring cameras. Does anybody know the answer?
There was a strip of negatives with Zolotarev's name scratched on it. In one of the books I have, it mentions that they gave cameras back to the hikers families and they got two of them mixed up. So if one of those cameras was Zolotarev's then maybe the wrong name was scratched on the film also.
Yes, I know that the second paragraph seems to answer the question in the first. But then it also means that everything they had with them they also owned which would make this hiking a very expensive hobby. I assumed that they and their families were fairly poor.
-
In rereading some of the information on this forum, I noticed that (for the group) there were supposed to be three cameras. I am not sure if that means that the school provided the group items or if it just means that (in the case of the cameras) three individuals were supposed to bring cameras. Does anybody know the answer?
There was a strip of negatives with Zolotarev's name scratched on it. In one of the books I have, it mentions that they gave cameras back to the hikers families and they got two of them mixed up. So if one of those cameras was Zolotarev's then maybe the wrong name was scratched on the film also.
Yes, I know that the second paragraph seems to answer the question in the first. But then it also means that everything they had with them they also owned which would make this hiking a very expensive hobby. I assumed that they and their families were fairly poor.
In the criminal case, the inspection reports mention 3 cameras with a number and one camera without a number. Films made during the campaign were shot using 5 cameras. According to the receipts, 3 cameras with a number were returned to relatives, and 1 camera without a number were returned to relatives of Zolotarev. There is no information about Thibault's camera in the criminal case.
No scrawled inscriptions of Zolotarev's name on any film are marked by any document, any certificate.
-
Thanks for the input Gorojanin.
-
1) ••• Hi, Gorojanin ! I can admit that some of the photos are the result of transformations in the laboratory, but I think that the corpse transports and stagings...etc., which you describe are needlessly too complicated to be anything other than an excellent subject for a fiction book.
Indeed, the initially undeveloped films may have been modified because it seems that no one knows exactly how these films that reached Lev Ivanov's office before finally ending up in the archives of Aleksei Koskin and Yuri Kuntsevich were treated.
a) Who was, and what did this "students volunteering in the first search party" do?
https://dyatlovpass.com/loose-photos
"These photos do not belong to any of the films and were introduced in the case file without explanation of their origin...
one of the students volunteering in the first search party ... developed the film with the intention to do some private investigation into the matter till he was asked by the official investigators to hand over the camera and the film which he did..." - Look particularly at photos N° : 3, 6, 8, 11, 12
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-03.jpg) (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-08.jpg) (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-11.jpg)
b) How were the other films developed ?
https://dyatlovpass.com/cameras
"...Cameras were identified with their serial numbers and number of frames of the films found inside. The photos were brought to a public domain much later, so we need to deduce which film was taken from which camera and who made the photos...."
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-05.jpg) (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Thibeaux-Brignolle-camera-film3-08.jpg) (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Thibeaux-Brignolle-camera-film3-09.jpg)
c)
The photos have been retouched or reconstructed NOT to mislead those who use them, but on the contrary to improve the readability and quality of the final images.
During the Stalinist period the specialists of photographic faking were appreciated (and I suppose well rewarded) professionals.
After 1953, the need for government propaganda in falsified photos diminished. So there were unemployed experts in the USSR who might want to demonstrate their competence and skill by making photo montages for art, "sport" or other unimportant reasons.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
2) ••• All events after January 26 are correct.
That is to say that the 9 hikers were attacked during the night of February 1 to 2, 1959 and finally killed by a few ex-zeks equipped with blunt objects (maces, bludgeons...) made of birch wood and who had followed their clearly visible traces.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-23.jpg)
From 1953 onwards, the mass releases of zeks who were proven enemies of the regime, consciously wanted by Khrushchev, led to tragedies and even to a "social catastrophe".
As a consequence, whenever possible Khrushchev ordered absolute secrecy to be maintained.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
3) ••• If you want more precisions, I continue (slowly) to develop my "hypothesis N°2" in the "Altercation on the pass" topic.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?board=53.0
-
@Jean Daniel Reuss
Hello,
You made very interesting description so far. Still, as I have mentioned earlier, I am not convinced about the chain of events that caused the abandonment of the tent, the abandonment of weapons, the suffering of traumatic injuries and , ultimately, death.
Your thorough and elaborate description of the ex-zeks behaviour is very nice, as is the description of the political context of the time - yet it would require a detailed analysis of the final night (Fev 1st to 2nd) to be fulfilling. I.e. - why were the skiers caught off-guard (there was supposed to be a watchment outside); why didn't they take the knives and axes; how were they followed in the pitch black night by the ex-zeks (how could the attackers see better then them - that would require multiple flashlights); how were the traumatic injuries of SLobodin (symmetrical hits on both temples), Lyubidina (multiple rib fractures without hits to hands, arms, etc), "Zolotaryov" (same as Lyubidina), caused ? (a detailed description); why aren't there more footprints discovered on Fev 26th ? (surely the ex-zeks should have made footprints following the retreating skiers).
Best,
-
1) ••• Hi, Gorojanin ! I can admit that some of the photos are the result of transformations in the laboratory, but I think that the corpse transports and stagings...etc., which you describe are needlessly too complicated to be anything other than an excellent subject for a fiction book.
Indeed, the initially undeveloped films may have been modified because it seems that no one knows exactly how these films that reached Lev Ivanov's office before finally ending up in the archives of Aleksei Koskin and Yuri Kuntsevich were treated.
Neither Ivanov, nor Koskin, nor Kuntsevich will be able to make a montage that is connected compositionally and plot-wise with the rest of the photos. Photomontages were made in the same place and at the same time as the other photos.
Students did not develop the film, but printed photos from the developed films.
a) Who was, and what did this "students volunteering in the first search party" do?
https://dyatlovpass.com/loose-photos
"These photos do not belong to any of the films and were introduced in the case file without explanation of their origin...
one of the students volunteering in the first search party ... developed the film with the intention to do some private investigation into the matter till he was asked by the official investigators to hand over the camera and the film which he did..." - Look particularly at photos N° : 3, 6, 8, 11, 12
Hhe film from Dyatlov’s camera was transferred by Ivanov’s daughter against receipt to the Kuntsevich Foundation, but was allegedly lost by him. The reason for the alleged loss is undoubtedly the extremely low level of execution of fake shots on this film.
b) How were the other films developed ?
https://dyatlovpass.com/cameras
"...Cameras were identified with their serial numbers and number of frames of the films found inside. The photos were brought to a public domain much later, so we need to deduce which film was taken from which camera and who made the photos...."
I believe that here the photos are accurately distributed across the films - http://9001.lt/1959/ .
c)
The photos have been retouched or reconstructed NOT to mislead those who use them, but on the contrary to improve the readability and quality of the final images.
During the Stalinist period the specialists of photographic faking were appreciated (and I suppose well rewarded) professionals.
After 1953, the need for government propaganda in falsified photos diminished. So there were unemployed experts in the USSR who might want to demonstrate their competence and skill by making photo montages for art, "sport" or other unimportant reasons.
The level of performance of photomontage of shooting of participants of Dyatlov's group is available to the Amateur photographer at home. In the 1960s, in school photo clubs, children were shown techniques that were used in the photomontage of photos members of the Dyatlov group.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
2) ••• All events after January 26 are correct.
That is to say that the 9 hikers were attacked during the night of February 1 to 2, 1959 and finally killed by a few ex-zeks equipped with blunt objects (maces, bludgeons...) made of birch wood and who had followed their clearly visible traces.
From 1953 onwards, the mass releases of zeks who were proven enemies of the regime, consciously wanted by Khrushchev, led to tragedies and even to a "social catastrophe".
As a consequence, whenever possible Khrushchev ordered absolute secrecy to be maintained.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
3) ••• If you want more precisions, I continue (slowly) to develop my "hypothesis N°2" in the "Altercation on the pass" topic.
I do not discuss fairy tales and fantasies of researchers of the Dyatlov pass.
No fairy tale can explain even the single fact of Thibault-Вrignol's monthly beard and moustache (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html).
-
No fairy tale can explain even the single fact of Thibault-Вrignol's monthly beard and moustache (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html).
Some say that hair continues to grow after bodily death.
Others say that the skin of the skull retracts during decomposition, and the hair becomes more proeminent because of it.
-
No fairy tale can explain even the single fact of Thibault-Вrignol's monthly beard and moustache (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html).
Some say that hair continues to grow after bodily death.
Others say that the skin of the skull retracts during decomposition, and the hair becomes more proeminent because of it.
Even those rare medical speakers who allow some growth after death speak of growth within hours, no more than a tenth of a millimeter. The depth of the hair under the skin of the upper lip is 1-2. 5 mm.
The length of the mustache in 1 cm is impossible due to skin drying. 1 cm grows within 26-31 days.
Thibault in a real photo taken on February 26.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q3vh3XQ.jpg)
Thibault in a photo allegedly taken on February 1.
(https://i.imgur.com/4yN6RpB.jpg)
Thibault at the beginning of a three-week hike in the Altai mountains in 1958.
(https://i.imgur.com/blliBa2.jpg)
Thibault at the end of a three-week hike in the Altai mountains in 1958.
(https://i.imgur.com/X4ltfVo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a8lIg46.jpg)
-
Even those rare medical speakers who allow some growth after death speak of growth within hours, no more than a tenth of a millimeter. The depth of the hair under the skin of the upper lip is 1-2. 5 mm.
The length of the mustache in 1 cm is impossible due to skin drying. 1 cm grows within 26-31 days.
I understand.
However, we do not have photos of Thibeaux-Brignolles after death. What we have is text from the autopsy report.
While I do not disregard a possible different timeline for DPI (I try not to diseregard anything logical), we must take into account the possibility of a clerical error in the documents (i.e. 1mm being wrongly written as 1cm). Without photos it is not possible for us to know more, IMHO.
-
Even those rare medical speakers who allow some growth after death speak of growth within hours, no more than a tenth of a millimeter. The depth of the hair under the skin of the upper lip is 1-2. 5 mm.
The length of the mustache in 1 cm is impossible due to skin drying. 1 cm grows within 26-31 days.
I understand.
However, we do not have photos of Thibeaux-Brignolles after death. What we have is text from the autopsy report.
While I do not disregard a possible different timeline for DPI (I try not to diseregard anything logical), we must take into account the possibility of a clerical error in the documents (i.e. 1mm being wrongly written as 1cm). Without photos it is not possible for us to know more, IMHO.
There is a photograph of Thibault with a mustache and beard after death. Read carefully (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html) !
The error is excluded. The expert report shows the results of measurements in tenths of a centimeter. And in General, no one will write: "hair up to 1 mm long".
-
There is a photograph of Thibault with a mustache and beard after death. Read carefully (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html) !
Yes but that photo is not clear enough to ascertain the length of the facial hair. It does appear to be more then in the last photos alive, but by how much more it can not be measured.
The error is excluded. The expert report shows the results of measurements in tenths of a centimeter. And in General, no one will write: "hair up to 1 mm long".
There are always errors... Just see that document that is dated Fev 15th (written in fact in April)...
-
There is a photograph of Thibault with a mustache and beard after death. Read carefully (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2020/01/monthly-stubble-of-thibo-brignoles.html) !
Yes but that photo is not clear enough to ascertain the length of the facial hair. It does appear to be more then in the last photos alive, but by how much more it can not be measured.
The error is excluded. The expert report shows the results of measurements in tenths of a centimeter. And in General, no one will write: "hair up to 1 mm long".
There are always errors... Just see that document that is dated Fev 15th (written in fact in April)...
It is necessary to explain what it is on the face (https://i.imgur.com/ZQMJi6W.jpg), if not the mustache and beard.
Measure not in photos, but in the morgue with a millimeter ruler, which is included in the mandatory set of tools of the pathologist.
The study was not conducted in February or April, but on may 9, 1959, in compliance with the decree of may 7, 1959.
(https://i.imgur.com/xDQ0Jf1.jpg)
-
It is necessary to explain what it is on the face (https://i.imgur.com/ZQMJi6W.jpg), if not the mustache and beard.
What is it on his face ?
-
It is necessary to explain what it is on the face (https://i.imgur.com/ZQMJi6W.jpg), if not the mustache and beard.
What is it on his face ?
"On the cheeks, chin and upper lip, black hair up to 1 cm long".
(https://i.imgur.com/3xifGAY.jpg)
-
"On the cheeks, chin and upper lip, black hair up to 1 cm long".
How do you explain it ?
By moving the time of death to Fev 20th/21st or so ?
-
"On the cheeks, chin and upper lip, black hair up to 1 cm long".
How do you explain it ?
By moving the time of death to Fev 20th/21st or so ?
He was killed much later than February 20-21. In March or even early April. The fake photos of the campaign, which were taken in the area of North-2, have photos of Thibault, just shaved.
(https://i.imgur.com/CsnEyKK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FuUjRZh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2lbeTVM.jpg)
-
He was killed much later than February 20-21. In March or even early April. The fake photos of the campaign, which were taken in the area of North-2, have photos of Thibault, just shaved.
What happened to him in the mean time ? (between Fev 1st and early April) ? Why was he (and the others presumably) abducted ?
-
He was killed much later than February 20-21. In March or even early April. The fake photos of the campaign, which were taken in the area of North-2, have photos of Thibault, just shaved.
What happened to him in the mean time ? (between Fev 1st and early April) ? Why was he (and the others presumably) abducted ?
I have a post about it. We are discussing this post. Read it.
-
@Jean Daniel Reuss ......Your thorough and elaborate description of the ex-zeks behaviour is very nice, as is the description of the political context of the time - yet it would require a detailed analysis of the final night (Fev 1st to 2nd) to be fulfilling. I.e. - why were the skiers caught off-guard (there was supposed to be a watchment outside); why didn't they take the knives and axes; how were they followed in the pitch black night by the ex-zeks (how could the attackers see better then them - that would require multiple flashlights); how were the traumatic injuries of SLobodin (symmetrical hits on both temples), Lyubidina (multiple rib fractures without hits to hands, arms, etc), "Zolotaryov" (same as Lyubidina), caused ? (a detailed description); why aren't there more footprints discovered on Fev 26th ? (surely the ex-zeks should have made footprints following the retreating skiers).
IMHO, the DPI belongs to the category of terrorist attacks, as there have been thousands of others around the world since 1945, perpetrated by ex-zeks who considered themselves to be anti-Soviet and anti-communist warriors infiltrated into the heart of the enemy's structure.
An explanation of the DPI is difficult because it would require serious background knowledge of the history of Russia and its surrounding countries, and also of international geopolitics.
For example, it is not easy to find information on the nationalities of the ex-zeks, who lived and worked in the Vizhay region and who were the attackers.
Were they: Chechens, Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Poles, Czechoslovakians, Hungarians, Romanians, Moldovans, Ukrainians, Koreans, Germans, Bulgarians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians... or from other countries ?
What makes the DPI so original is that the weapons used successfully were simple clubs or blugdeons, fashioned from birch trunks.
So I intend to develop my explanations in the topic: "Altercation on the pass" (and not in the "Murdered" topic, nor in the "General Discussion" topic).
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
The final night (Feb 1st to 2nd) is not the most difficult chapter to reconstruct approximately.
why were the skiers caught off-guard (there was supposed to be a watchment outside)?
•• I do not think there were any hikers posted or watching outside the tent.
To illustrate the importance of harsh weather Morski placed a video ("Murdered > My short take on murder") :
https://youtu.be/fbZjcKl3Z6o
Some hikers stayed fully dressed so that they could intervene outside the tent for a few minutes. For example, to drive in stakes or tent supports, to reinforce loose anchorages in the wind..
why did not they take the knives and axes ?
•• The knives in question were folding knives, apparently without a safety lock.
I do not know if the hikers were trained in the fighting with knife which implies a fast and precise style, unsuited to the outside conditions (darkness, wind, cold...).
The axes and the ice axe would have been more effective to defend themselves... It is likely that the hikers underestimated the risks of an attack. Or did they think that setting up the tent on a treeless surface was a sufficient protection
how were they followed in the pitch black night by the ex-zeks (how could the attackers see better then them - that would require multiple flashlights) ?
•• I think that on the slope of the Klolat Syakhl the violent hand-to-hand combat where Kolmogorova, Slobodin, Dyatlov (in that order) fell stunned, wounded and then froze to death took place in complete darkness.
The flaslights were not used and the moon was not yet up. No one could see anything but vague dark outlines standing out against the lighter background of the snow.
Loss of balance and falls were frequent on both parts because the snow-covered ground was uneven and slippery.
The attackers could not see better than the hikers, but they had better footwear. Thus the attackers could move faster (rather less slowly) which was a decisive advantage for the attackers as they kept the initiative to go on the offensive or break off the fight.
About 3 hours after leaving the tent Doroshenko was stunned by surprise, because being dazzled by the light of the fire, he could not see that the attackers were approaching while they could see Doroshenko clearly.
how were the traumatic injuries of SLobodin (symmetrical hits on both temples) ?
•• Once the victim, unconscious or slowed down in his movements by the first blows received, is lying on the ground, it is sufficient to continue hitting.
In Slobodin's case, it was enough to hit him one or more times on the left temple, then turn his head and continue hitting the right temple.
Lyubidina (multiple rib fractures without hits to hands, arms, etc), "Zolotaryov" (same as Lyubidina), caused ?
•• There is no difficulty in breaking human bones with a heavy club, as the energy corresponding to the blows is more than sufficient.
Approximately, we have 4 kg falling from a height of 3 m (120 joules) to which we must add double the muscular energy produced by a set of large muscles.
The energy of a single blow from a birch club is of the order of 400 joules.
In the case of the four of the den found on May 5, (and who could not defend themselves with fists), because their corpses were rotten external injuries were not discernable.
why are not there more footprints discovered on Fev 26th ?
•• On the slope of the Kholat Syakhl almost all traces of footsteps and fights had been erased on February 26, 1959 because the wind had often blown strongly since February 2.
See also:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=614.0
General Discussion > Experiment with raised tracks
Teddy , April 11, 2020, 12:03:49 AM
On the other hand, in the valley of the Auspiya river the trace of the 9 hikers' skis was still visible when the rescuers on the ground searched for them.
Naturally, after their victory, the attackers returned to North-2 following carefully the ski tracks that the hikers had come from North-2.
-
IMHO, the DPI belongs to the category of terrorist attacks, as there have been thousands of others around the world since 1945, perpetrated by ex-zeks who considered themselves to be anti-Soviet and anti-communist warriors infiltrated into the heart of the enemy's structure...
How do these stories about bandits and mythical events at the pass on February 1-2 explain the photomontage and forgery of the campaign? They don't explain it in any way. There are other themes for these stories.
-
IMHO, the DPI belongs to the category of terrorist attacks, as there have been thousands of others around the world since 1945, perpetrated by ex-zeks who considered themselves to be anti-Soviet and anti-communist warriors infiltrated into the heart of the enemy's structure.
Hello,
I'll reply in the topic "altercation at the pass"
Best Regards,
-
Added a little bit to the image.
(https://i.imgur.com/cZfxxYt.jpg)
-
I'm a Canadian forester; and that's not true, the forest does not accumulate snow. The branches even block snow from falling on the forest floor. You have not spent more time in the bush than I have.
-
I'm a Canadian forester; and that's not true, the forest does not accumulate snow. The branches even block snow from falling on the forest floor. You have not spent more time in the bush than I have.
This is the photo album of the party searches the Dyatlov group Askinazi - http://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/fotoreportazh2.shtml
This is a slope in early may. Author's explanation: So by the beginning of may, the kurumniki were opened, through which the children ran. The tent was located approximately in the upper-left corner.
(https://i.imgur.com/LY3Gb7E.jpg)
This is the tent of participants in the search for a Dyatlov group of in the forest. Explanation of the author: the Tent was not on the ground, but on the lapnik. Meter of snow, and it's in the woods! The stream can be filled in with a depth of 3-3.5 meters in a couple of days. That's why they couldn't find the flooring before us. By our time, the snow has shrunk (without melting), about half a meter and bared spruce debris.
(https://i.imgur.com/2eqLi9v.jpg)
-
Another small addition to the main article (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html).
Inexhaustible on mistakes session "with a horse on Lozva".
Athletes choose their skis according to their height: height plus 25 cm. But such that the Kolmogorova`s skis , the smallest in the group, were twice as large as those of Dubinina`s skis, and longer than those of Doroshenko`s skis, the tallest in the group, in principle can not be. The photographer is absolutely not familiar with skis and sticks.
Skis were measured from the ski toe to the ankle. All skiers stand in the same ski track.
(https://i.imgur.com/Dl5NT5S.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/60O9a1C.jpg)
-
I'm a Canadian forester; and that's not true, the forest does not accumulate snow. The branches even block snow from falling on the forest floor. You have not spent more time in the bush than I have.
Well the forest will accumulate snow under the right circumstances. For instance an opening in the Forest. Or a wind blowing in the right direction to cause snow to accumulate.
-
Sarapuk, Could more falling snow have hidden the tracks closer to the tree line? I say this because there were no footprints from the cedar tree to the Zina, Igor and Slobodin bodies going uphill. It took 2 more days to find them after the Georgy and Yuri.
Did Zina, Igor and Rustem actually walk back up towards the tent or did they walk-crawl or just crawl back up?
Sorry for the delay. Actually I have been thinking hard about that famous or infamous photo of the unidentified figure. In trying to figure out the height of that figure I looked at the Ski Tracks, if they are Ski Tracks , and the amount of snow in that area. There is a lot of snow on the Trees and it certainly looks like a lot of snow on the ground. And it appears that the reason is because WIND as blown the snow to form in the way that it has. So WIND blowing snow in the area of the Cedar Tree and Den is highly likely. A WIND that could have been blowing on and off for weeks before any bodies were found.
-
Well the forest will accumulate snow under the right circumstances. For instance an opening in the Forest. Or a wind blowing in the right direction to cause snow to accumulate.
This photo was taken in the woods, between a cedar tree and a stream, where four bodies were buried.
http://zhurnal.lib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/sharavin.shtml
(https://i.imgur.com/DKmxjAs.jpg)
This photo under a cedar tree was taken at sunset on February 27. On February 26, members of the search team saw that the snow under the cedar was trampled. In one day, the wind and snow removed all traces.
(https://i.imgur.com/phI6aLa.jpg)
-
Well the forest will accumulate snow under the right circumstances. For instance an opening in the Forest. Or a wind blowing in the right direction to cause snow to accumulate.
This photo was taken in the woods, between a cedar tree and a stream, where four bodies were buried.
http://zhurnal.lib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/sharavin.shtml
(https://i.imgur.com/DKmxjAs.jpg)
This photo under a cedar tree was taken at sunset on February 27. On February 26, members of the search team saw that the snow under the cedar was trampled. In one day, the wind and snow removed all traces.
(https://i.imgur.com/phI6aLa.jpg)
Thanks for that. Yes its clear to see just how quickly snow can accumulate in those parts and also remain around for some time due to the very low temperatures.
This is also very interesting.
M.P. : They say that 15 meters below the tent they found scraps of film. Yudin admits that they filmed there.
M.Sh. : I also heard this from Yudin.
-
Thanks for that. Yes its clear to see just how quickly snow can accumulate in those parts and also remain around for some time due to the very low temperatures.
This is also very interesting.
M.P. : They say that 15 meters below the tent they found scraps of film. Yudin admits that they filmed there.
M.Sh. : I also heard this from Yudin.
Yudin had been lying all his life.
No one involved in the search knows about the scraps of film.
-
Added another two fake photo to the main message (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) . Now the fragment looks like this.
*
Allegedly, two photos of Krivonischenko and Dyatlov.
It is believed that the group of Dyatlov on January 28, 1959 walked along the Lozva river and in one of the places with a picturesque bank, were photographed in small groups. They took 10 photos, skiing, in one place, on the same background, on 4 cameras.
In the expert acts, Zolotarev and Thibo almost the same height, 172 and 174 cm; visually, this difference is not noticeable. But on the photo, Thibo is taller than Zolotarev by a third of his head, in another shorter by half a head. Fakes are both.
Researchers of the Dyatlov's group incident in the Internet explain the difference by the fact that the Dyatlov group members wore a stump, shot on elevations, fell into holes, stood on toes, feeling embrassed about their height, shot with different descriptive geometry, etc. But the explanation is simple: the master did not see the members of the Dyatlov group nearby and had no idea about their height. Before the publication of the acts of the medical examiner, no one knew about this at all, everything was opened with them...
Who is higher, dear researchers of the Dyatlov's group incedent, Zolotarev or Thibo, and why? Do i need to believe montages or medical examiners? And if photomontages, which of them?
(https://i.imgur.com/2n9Wsd0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5zJUZXy.jpg)
In the second photo, we see a camera case with a rounded sidewall, on a disappearing strap.
(https://i.imgur.com/C458l61.jpg)
In another photo the case is square))
The photomaster is a rare oaf.
(https://i.imgur.com/n5OjqT9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/78IgblM.jpg)
-
Added another two fake photo to the main message (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html) . Now the fragment looks like this.
*
Allegedly, two photos of Krivonischenko and Dyatlov.
It is believed that the group of Dyatlov on January 28, 1959 walked along the Lozva river and in one of the places with a picturesque bank, were photographed in small groups. They took 10 photos, skiing, in one place, on the same background, on 4 cameras.
In the expert acts, Zolotarev and Thibo almost the same height, 172 and 174 cm; visually, this difference is not noticeable. But on the photo, Thibo is taller than Zolotarev by a third of his head, in another shorter by half a head. Fakes are both.
Researchers of the Dyatlov's group incident in the Internet explain the difference by the fact that the Dyatlov group members wore a stump, shot on elevations, fell into holes, stood on toes, feeling embrassed about their height, shot with different descriptive geometry, etc. But the explanation is simple: the master did not see the members of the Dyatlov group nearby and had no idea about their height. Before the publication of the acts of the medical examiner, no one knew about this at all, everything was opened with them...
Who is higher, dear researchers of the Dyatlov's group incedent, Zolotarev or Thibo, and why? Do i need to believe montages or medical examiners? And if photomontages, which of them?
(https://i.imgur.com/2n9Wsd0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5zJUZXy.jpg)
In the second photo, we see a camera case with a rounded sidewall, on a disappearing strap.
(https://i.imgur.com/C458l61.jpg)
In another photo the case is square))
The photomaster is a rare oaf.
(https://i.imgur.com/n5OjqT9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/78IgblM.jpg)
Once again - complete nonsense. You can clearly see the strap going under the jacket...
-
Once again - complete nonsense. You can clearly see the strap going under the jacket...
Question: why did the camera case with a rounded sidewall become a square-shaped camera case?
(https://i.imgur.com/C458l61.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/n5OjqT9.jpg)
In the third picture, the lazy photographer did not hang the camera around Zolotarev's neck. grin1
(https://i.imgur.com/vRRm4UM.jpg)
Also, he didn't hang up the flashlight that was hanging in the first photo. shock1 declare1
(https://i.imgur.com/0imcGhE.jpg)
-
Another small addition to the main article (https://0209gorojanin.blogspot.com/2019/12/fake-pictures-oddities-of-diaries-end.html).
Inexhaustible on mistakes session "with a horse on Lozva".
Birches in the near-term plan and the ski track are lit from the left, that is, from the East, although in the story the Dyatlov`s group goes North, in the sunset hour.
Epic nitwit photographers!
(http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1595701880/05b4f99a/31165859_m.jpg) (http://vfl.ru/fotos/05b4f99a31165859.html)
(http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1595702210/40852784/31165878_m.jpg) (http://vfl.ru/fotos/4085278431165878.html)
-
Thanks for that. Yes its clear to see just how quickly snow can accumulate in those parts and also remain around for some time due to the very low temperatures.
This is also very interesting.
M.P. : They say that 15 meters below the tent they found scraps of film. Yudin admits that they filmed there.
M.Sh. : I also heard this from Yudin.
any truths.
Yudin had been lying all his life.
No one involved in the search knows about the scraps of film.
Well its obviously subjective as to whether or not some one lies all their life without telling any truths. I believe that most people have it within themselves to tell lies and also the truth as and when.
-
I dont see a Camera with a rounded sidewall ! ? I dont see anything in the photos to suggest Forgeries. But there are missing Photographs that may well contain important Evidence.
-
I dont see a Camera with a rounded sidewall ! ? I dont see anything in the photos to suggest Forgeries. But there are missing Photographs that may well contain important Evidence.
I see and I don't see are not facts.
Zolotarev has a camera case Zorky, no doubt.
It has a rounded sidewall.
(https://i.imgur.com/C458l61.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/maB3KfP.jpg)
And the camera Zorky - a heavy object. Its weight without the lens and case is 0.5 kg. The strap should be stretched and hang around your neck. But the strap is missing from the neck.
(https://i.imgur.com/qeGhVPq.jpg)
-
I dont see a Camera with a rounded sidewall ! ? I dont see anything in the photos to suggest Forgeries. But there are missing Photographs that may well contain important Evidence.
I see and I don't see are not facts.
Zolotarev has a camera case Zorky, no doubt.
It has a rounded sidewall.
(https://i.imgur.com/C458l61.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/maB3KfP.jpg)
And the camera Zorky - a heavy object. Its weight without the lens and case is 0.5 kg. The strap should be stretched and hang around your neck. But the strap is missing from the neck.
(https://i.imgur.com/qeGhVPq.jpg)
I see and I dont see are not facts ! ? Of course they are facts depending on the context of use. I also see 2 separate photos where in one photo the Camera Case is close to the body and in the other it is a little distance away from the body. And that is why the Camera Case appears to have rounded edges in one photo but square edges in the other photo. Its the same Camera Case. Also the Camera Case Strap can be seen close to the collar of the coat.
-
I see and I dont see are not facts ! ? Of course they are facts depending on the context of use. I also see 2 separate photos where in one photo the Camera Case is close to the body and in the other it is a little distance away from the body. And that is why the Camera Case appears to have rounded edges in one photo but square edges in the other photo. Its the same Camera Case. Also the Camera Case Strap can be seen close to the collar of the coat.
The square case of the camera has an edge and a face. There is no edge or face on the round case of the camera. The camera is heavy, the belt is stretched like a string, so the belt can not come down from the collar, it must hang straight and be stretched.
How can you explain the disappearance of the camera and flashlight between images? Zolotarev lost them between the pictures?
(https://i.imgur.com/HrQcwMF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XlQDRg6.jpg)
-
To kill 9 (+?) people and perform a massive cleanup and then doctor a load of photos then you need an extraordinary reason to do so. It's just too much. Even for the KGB , CIA or whoever. You also need to consider how many people need to be kept quiet - the cleanup gang. Your talking 20+ people. That's a lot of people. Then you need to think about all the people who would have encountered them and knew them. Somebody would have blabbed by now. All of the missing stuff must have turned up somewhere(?) Other thread about how long it would have taken to get out of the tent .... you've got to find a knife first - in the dark - then unsheath it and perform "surgery" on the tent. Whoever (on here) said 2-3 minutes must be wrong because if it is that much of an emergency then you need to be out in about 15 seconds. 2-3 minutes is a very long time. Clearly a knife was used but the knives are missing.
-
To kill 9 (+?) people and perform a massive cleanup and then doctor a load of photos then you need an extraordinary reason to do so. It's just too much. Even for the KGB , CIA or whoever. You also need to consider how many people need to be kept quiet - the cleanup gang. Your talking 20+ people. That's a lot of people. Then you need to think about all the people who would have encountered them and knew them. Somebody would have blabbed by now. All of the missing stuff must have turned up somewhere(?) Other thread about how long it would have taken to get out of the tent .... you've got to find a knife first - in the dark - then unsheath it and perform "surgery" on the tent. Whoever (on here) said 2-3 minutes must be wrong because if it is that much of an emergency then you need to be out in about 15 seconds. 2-3 minutes is a very long time. Clearly a knife was used but the knives are missing.
I didn't write anything about these fantasies. Ask those who fantasized.
-
And the addition here. Thanks to Maria Zmanovskaya (http://bit.do/fLa5b) .
(https://i.imgur.com/aApPLrE.jpg)
-
And the addition here. Thanks to Maria Zmanovskaya (http://bit.do/fLa5b) .
(https://i.imgur.com/aApPLrE.jpg)
The Skis are not different. Its the angle that the photo was taken at.