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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Where’s the tongue?  (Read 15354 times)

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October 09, 2018, 02:14:00 PM
Reply #60
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
WAB.   You are not a problem.  The off topic was and has been initiated by a different member.  Replying to an off topic post is not the issue.   thumb1

I won't be moving anything, I'm just warning members who simply post links with russian text to websites having nothing to do with the thread topic. 
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

December 03, 2018, 05:45:31 AM
Reply #61
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Monika


I dont think, that the rav4 bodies were found in a very natural position as well. Anyway, we can presume, that the position of Kolevatov and Zolotoryov kinda makes sense (trying to warm each other). Nikolai was some 30cm downstream (probably been closer to the other two, but separated (naturally or not) at some point. Although, if they died together, or one after another in a reasonably short period of time, given the fact that they were very cold already and that bodies get stiff after death, it is strange, but anyway. 
Dubinina is in the most awklard position. Probably her body was as well closer to the guys, but slipped away downstream to the position in which she was found. Her arms are pointing upwards, she is on her knees. Looks to me, as her body literally slipped, postmortem or in the best case she was nearly dead, with no strenght to move at all. According to the autopsy, everyone from the rav4 died as a result of "act of violence". I am wondering, what is the chance that they were murdered, or at least severely beaten, then left to die, and afterwards their bodies were just thrown on one another, piled up? Than it was a matter of exposure and nature for the decaying process.
As for the missing tongue, it is very odd, that in the autopsy report it is just mentioned as "absent". ("The tongue in the oral cavity is absent. The diaphragm of the mouth and tongue is absent.") She was in a strange possition, mouth open, therefore snow and melted water running through and generally a lot more exposed to elements than the others in the rav, but still strange to entirely lose the tongue, as it was never been there in the first place. In warmer conditions would make more sense, but with all the snow and freezing cold water... Or, the autopsy report is just presented in a clumsy way. 
I dont know why, I keep recalling the Donnie Eichar`s Dead mountain, where he is describing the character of Liuda, and he mentions that it is known that sometimes when irritated, she would show untamed tongue behaviour, IIRC. If true, what a sad irony.

I agree with you, her body was probably as well closer to the guys, but slipped away downstream (if 3D model of the ravine by Vasilii Zyadik is correct). It seems as three of them were deadly injured and and the last survivor felt that he is tired and dying and lying down to them not to be alone and warm a little bit. I'm very sorry for them, it must have been terrible.
It is possible the tongue was destroyed by water and microorganisms. But I have doubt if in such a frozen condition and within such a short time (3 months) the tongue could be decomposed by microorganisms! (I study microbiology at the university), it is not Nevada desert. And the water was frozen, and it had just de-frost to liquid state a short time before  bodies finding. And not only tongue was missing but  all oral cavity. So perhaps what caused the internal injury (e.g.some air explosion, wave) damaged Dubinia´s whole mouth because it could have been just opened at that time. The same happened with her and Zolotarev eyes.
 

December 03, 2018, 12:07:06 PM
Reply #62
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I think it is highly unlikely that a TONGUE and EYES were lost as a result of some AIR BLAST / WAVE  !  ?  It would need to be one hell of a powerful BLAST and you would then expect other signs like DECAPITATION.
DB
 

December 03, 2018, 11:05:45 PM
Reply #63
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Monika


I think it is highly unlikely that a TONGUE and EYES were lost as a result of some AIR BLAST / WAVE  !  ?  It would need to be one hell of a powerful BLAST and you would then expect other signs like DECAPITATION.

I'm not saying it was the wave of the explosion. It could be some other phenomenon we don´t know well. I just wanted to say that tongue decomposition with microorganisms in such an environment and time period three months  or with water below zero degree is unlikely.
 

December 03, 2018, 11:06:59 PM
Reply #64
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Face down in running water.   Dont forget that part. 
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

December 04, 2018, 12:31:32 AM
Reply #65
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Monika


Face down in running water.   Dont forget that part.

Hello,
That's possible, but the question is how long? The body of Dubinia with small creek was covered under 4 m of snow and the outside temperature was deep below zero minimally whole February and March, maybe even longer (April). Was the water in a frozen state and thus not flooding? And if so, when did it was de-frost before finding the body? And the next fact to consider is that if the 3D model of the ravine (by Vasilii Zyadik)  is correct, and the body of Dubinia with the melting of the snow in May shifted off the other bodies, the face was soaked in the water only briefly.
It is really very difficult to imagine in the mind how it could go all the way. We would need a clairvoyant/medium. wink1
 

December 04, 2018, 07:03:53 AM
Reply #66
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
I would imagine a few weeks.....  I wouldn't leave my steaks out on the counter for that long.  Would you?
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

December 04, 2018, 06:31:52 PM
Reply #67
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Back to the rotting TONGUE theory.  Still doesnt explain the autopsy mention of unusual movement of the HYOID BONE,  etc.
DB
 

October 18, 2020, 05:21:47 AM
Reply #68
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Beluga1303


But we shouldn't forget that she had probably been lying in snow and water since February. With open mouth. In April / May the thaw sets in. Who knows which animals are on the river or in the river?
Someone knows the answer. But will we ever find out?
 

October 20, 2020, 03:48:27 PM
Reply #69
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
But we shouldn't forget that she had probably been lying in snow and water since February. With open mouth. In April / May the thaw sets in. Who knows which animals are on the river or in the river?

Well if the Autopsies had have been carried out properly we would have been told of any animals or insects or whatever. Instead we were given a very vague answer.
DB
 

October 21, 2020, 04:42:33 AM
Reply #70

eurocentric

Guest
There was controversy in the UK after a recent ban on shooting crows, who attack lambs, going for the eyes and tongue. Apparently they do the same with piglets. And of course crows pecked out the eyes of the dead during the plague. They are said to exist all over the world, apart from Antarctica.

Because Lyuda died with her mouth open, and her body was discovered leaning against a large rock, this may have provided a landing spot for a crow or other carrion before the bodies were covered with snow, and afterwards the air pocket at water level would allow decomposition, with the varying flow of water directly into her mouth flushing away the remains of the tongue and other tissues.
 

October 21, 2020, 11:28:05 AM
Reply #71
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RidgeWatcher


Thank you WAB, You always bring logic and knowledge back to the conversation. I wasn't aware that freshly melted ice carries more oxygen in it. That is new information for me. I also want to say that after living in Alaska for years most people are aware of "ice worms" that live in the glaciers and tightly frozen ice, among all the different bacteria and possible viruses.



 

October 24, 2020, 07:05:25 AM
Reply #72
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
There was controversy in the UK after a recent ban on shooting crows, who attack lambs, going for the eyes and tongue. Apparently they do the same with piglets. And of course crows pecked out the eyes of the dead during the plague. They are said to exist all over the world, apart from Antarctica.

Because Lyuda died with her mouth open, and her body was discovered leaning against a large rock, this may have provided a landing spot for a crow or other carrion before the bodies were covered with snow, and afterwards the air pocket at water level would allow decomposition, with the varying flow of water directly into her mouth flushing away the remains of the tongue and other tissues.

Crows also migrate. So in a typical Siberian Winter I would have thought that it would be unlikely that Crows would hang around some exposed Mountainside. Also I find it hard to believe that Crows could have caused the damage that was done to Dubinina.
DB
 

December 03, 2020, 02:48:25 AM
Reply #73
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GKM


 Missing tongue, huh? Eaten by rodents? Where were the teeth marks? Any teeth marks found on any of the victims? I do not recall reading of such. Perhaps it simply rotted due to running water and time? But...As one author stated, "Tissue cannot rot selectively ". Mysterious, isn't it?
 

December 03, 2020, 04:47:01 AM
Reply #74
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Nigel Evans


A good theory i've heard recently is that as the spring meltwaters increased in energy there would be thawing around the bodies. So if the force of the water was pushing against a body now loose in the flow but parts of the face were still attached to the ice then this could force a separation leaving tissue in the ice.
 

December 03, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
Reply #75
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sarapuk

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A good theory i've heard recently is that as the spring meltwaters increased in energy there would be thawing around the bodies. So if the force of the water was pushing against a body now loose in the flow but parts of the face were still attached to the ice then this could force a separation leaving tissue in the ice.

Yeah there is some evidence to support that theory by looking at the photos of Dubinina. Doesnt explain the other extraordinary bodily injuries.
DB
 

December 24, 2020, 03:07:23 PM
Reply #76

Jeff

Guest



Dubinina Official Autopsy Report
''The inner surface of the aortic smooth and clean. Light from the surface sinyushnokrasnogo color fluffy to the touch. In the context of lung tissue dark red color when pressed with the cut surface liberally dripping bloody foamy fluid lumen of the bronchi free. The horns of the hyoid bone XXXXXXXX unusual mobility, soft tissue adjacent to the hyoid bone gryaznoserogo color. Aperture mouth and tongue missing. The upper edge of the hyoid bone is exposed. The mucous membrane of the esophagus, trachea bronchi sinyushnokrasnovatogo color. The injuries of the head area of ​​the soft tissue and "skin bath 'limbs are posthumous changes (decay and decomposition) Dubinina corpse, which was recently before finding water.''


Note ; It doesnt state if all the 4 horns of the hyoid bone were subject to unusual mobility. Also what is the  XXXXXXXX  !  ?



 xxxx was broken
 

December 24, 2020, 03:27:53 PM
Reply #77

Jeff

Guest


it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease-  xxxx ( are broken),

The dash in the sentence is also an indication
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 03:32:34 PM by Jeff »
 

December 27, 2020, 01:29:08 PM
Reply #78
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease-  xxxx ( are broken),

The dash in the sentence is also an indication

Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.
DB
 

December 27, 2020, 01:43:53 PM
Reply #79

Jeff

Guest


it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease-  xxxx ( are broken),

The dash in the sentence is also an indication

Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.

It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.

Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.
 

December 27, 2020, 02:16:01 PM
Reply #80
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease-  xxxx ( are broken),

The dash in the sentence is also an indication

Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.

It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.

Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.

Well I have been posting stuff for sometime re Animal Mutilations. There are similarities between some of the injuries and such Mutilations.
DB
 

December 27, 2020, 03:59:14 PM
Reply #81

Jeff

Guest


it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease-  xxxx ( are broken),

The dash in the sentence is also an indication

Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.

It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.

Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.

Well I have been posting stuff for sometime re Animal Mutilations. There are similarities between some of the injuries and such Mutilations.

I am with you on that. Only the first chapter (leaving the test suddenly) is hard to explain using this paranormal theory.
 

December 28, 2020, 05:46:50 PM
Reply #82
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease-  xxxx ( are broken),

The dash in the sentence is also an indication

Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.

It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.

Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.

Well I have been posting stuff for sometime re Animal Mutilations. There are similarities between some of the injuries and such Mutilations.

I am with you on that. Only the first chapter (leaving the test suddenly) is hard to explain using this paranormal theory.

The Event at the Tent appears to be the starting point for this Dyatlov Mystery. But As I have also mentioned many times, why did they pitch the Tent in such an exposed position.
Could it be because they were scared of something that had been following them, and they thought that being on the Mountain side was safer than down in the Forest  !  ?  But then of course something happened that sent them down to the Forest again. Could that be related to the previous scare  !  ?  And whatever it was that was scaring them hadnt finished yet because now the Dyatlov Group are at the Cedar Tree for another Event. And then the final Event at the Ravine, or so it seems. One scare after another. And something not mentioned much is the look of horror on at least one of the Dyatlov Groups faces. A look of sheer horror frozen in time.

DB
 

December 29, 2020, 01:20:35 AM
Reply #83

Jeff

Guest
Not to lose the elevation? To have another challenge as sleeping without the fire?
Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.
 

December 29, 2020, 03:31:56 PM
Reply #84
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Not to lose the elevation? To have another challenge as sleeping without the fire?
Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.

The Challenge theory has been mooted before regarding the final site of the Tent. But the weather was already very bad so why take extra risk in an exposed position.
DB
 

December 30, 2020, 02:03:30 AM
Reply #85
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Nigel Evans


Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.


No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
 

December 30, 2020, 11:08:51 AM
Reply #86

Jeff

Guest
Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.


No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
Yes deliberate. I meant the exact location. If there was still daylight they might as well pitch it higher up or over the summit, on their way to the peak (was it 20 miles away?).
 

December 30, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
Reply #87
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Nigel Evans


Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.


No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
Yes deliberate. I meant the exact location. If there was still daylight they might as well pitch it higher up or over the summit, on their way to the peak (was it 20 miles away?).


There's a good case for that location if you want to the view the whole arc of the hill back to dyatlov pass and still stay out of the worst of the wind.
 

December 31, 2020, 06:41:07 AM
Reply #88

Jeff

Guest
Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.


No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
Yes deliberate. I meant the exact location. If there was still daylight they might as well pitch it higher up or over the summit, on their way to the peak (was it 20 miles away?).


There's a good case for that location if you want to the view the whole arc of the hill back to dyatlov pass and still stay out of the worst of the wind.
Why would they need to view it? Were they followed? Why not a thing about it in the diaries?
 

December 31, 2020, 06:46:13 AM
Reply #89

Jeff

Guest
Missing tongue, huh? Eaten by rodents? Where were the teeth marks? Any teeth marks found on any of the victims? I do not recall reading of such. Perhaps it simply rotted due to running water and time? But...As one author stated, "Tissue cannot rot selectively ". Mysterious, isn't it?
Nothing was simply rotten. 


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