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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Photographs  (Read 17022 times)

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December 12, 2020, 03:30:33 PM
Reply #120
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Star man

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Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.

But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.

I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.

The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.

Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.

Maybe we are looking at frame 34 tge wrong way? Turn it 90 degrees clockwise.

Regards

Star man
 

December 12, 2020, 05:01:44 PM
Reply #121
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
DB
 

December 12, 2020, 05:06:46 PM
Reply #122
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.

But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.

I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.

The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.

Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.

So why did the Dyatlov Group leave the Tent not fully clothed and without provisions and walk a mile to the Forest in extremely low temperatures ? And no other footprints were found other than those belonging to the Dyatlov Group.
DB
 

December 13, 2020, 03:43:55 PM
Reply #123
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.

True.  But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout.  If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter.  From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc.  They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.

Regards

Star man
 

December 14, 2020, 03:48:18 PM
Reply #124
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.

True.  But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout.  If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter.  From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc.  They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.

Regards

Star man
[/quote .

Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.
DB
 

December 14, 2020, 04:33:16 PM
Reply #125
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.

True.  But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout.  If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter.  From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc.  They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.

Regards

Star man
[/quote .

Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.

It could explain their behaviour.  Neuro vascular damage.  Reduced level of consciousness.  Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes.  The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure.  There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.

Regards

Star man
 

December 15, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Reply #126
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.

True.  But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout.  If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter.  From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc.  They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.

Regards

Star man
[/quote .

Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.

It could explain their behaviour.  Neuro vascular damage.  Reduced level of consciousness.  Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes.  The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure.  There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.

Regards

Star man

But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.
DB
 

December 15, 2020, 03:19:30 PM
Reply #127
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.

True.  But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout.  If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter.  From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc.  They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.

Regards

Star man
[/quote .

Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.

It could explain their behaviour.  Neuro vascular damage.  Reduced level of consciousness.  Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes.  The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure.  There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.

Regards

Star man

But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.


Traces would not easily be detected, if you don't know what to look for.  Especially, if you have competing causes, hypothermia and radiation, and you think hypothermia to be the obvious cause.   But there should have been evidence in terms of damage to the bodies.  Particularly the first bodies found which had not suffered decomposition.  One clue to look for would be signs of blood infections.  Another, deterioration of the stomach lining.  Another, reddening of the subcutaneous skin layer.

Regards

Star man
 

December 16, 2020, 12:06:04 PM
Reply #128
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.

True.  But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout.  If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter.  From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc.  They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.

Regards

Star man
[/quote .

Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.

It could explain their behaviour.  Neuro vascular damage.  Reduced level of consciousness.  Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes.  The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure.  There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.

Regards

Star man

But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.


Traces would not easily be detected, if you don't know what to look for.  Especially, if you have competing causes, hypothermia and radiation, and you think hypothermia to be the obvious cause.   But there should have been evidence in terms of damage to the bodies.  Particularly the first bodies found which had not suffered decomposition.  One clue to look for would be signs of blood infections.  Another, deterioration of the stomach lining.  Another, reddening of the subcutaneous skin layer.

Regards

Star man

Well Iam not a Nuclear Scientist but I believe that if Neutrons penetrate materials including bodies then they have the effect of rendering those materials or bodies Radioactive and therefore easily detected.
DB
 

December 16, 2020, 03:36:16 PM
Reply #129
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man

The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.

True.  But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout.  If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter.  From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc.  They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.

Regards

Star man
[/quote .

Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.

It could explain their behaviour.  Neuro vascular damage.  Reduced level of consciousness.  Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes.  The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure.  There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.

Regards

Star man

But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.


Traces would not easily be detected, if you don't know what to look for.  Especially, if you have competing causes, hypothermia and radiation, and you think hypothermia to be the obvious cause.   But there should have been evidence in terms of damage to the bodies.  Particularly the first bodies found which had not suffered decomposition.  One clue to look for would be signs of blood infections.  Another, deterioration of the stomach lining.  Another, reddening of the subcutaneous skin layer.

Regards

Star man

Well Iam not a Nuclear Scientist but I believe that if Neutrons penetrate materials including bodies then they have the effect of rendering those materials or bodies Radioactive and therefore easily detected.

From what I have read, I think you are right.  Neutrons can cause things to become radioactive themselves.  But it also said that certain materials are affected much more than others.  Zinc was one them.  There were some other metals too, but I cant remember which ones.  Will have look again. But the body is mainly water so I don't think that is affected so much.  I am not sure how radioactive a person exposed to something like this would become.  But remember the pathologists, were required to sign documents which may have prevented full disclosure of what they found, and we are still missing the toxicology report.

The other things I have mentioned are documented effects of exposure.

Regards

Star man
 

December 18, 2020, 03:09:27 AM
Reply #130

eurocentric

Guest
Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.
 

December 18, 2020, 03:29:00 AM
Reply #131

eurocentric

Guest
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.

But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.

I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.

The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.

Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.

Maybe we are looking at frame 34 tge wrong way? Turn it 90 degrees clockwise.

Regards

Star man

If the camera is set on a tripod, as found, the top of which connects to a threaded hole in the base of the camera, then the image is horizontal.
 

December 18, 2020, 03:46:13 AM
Reply #132

eurocentric

Guest
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.

But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.

I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.

The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.

Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.

So why did the Dyatlov Group leave the Tent not fully clothed and without provisions and walk a mile to the Forest in extremely low temperatures ? And no other footprints were found other than those belonging to the Dyatlov Group.

The theory has 3 potential variations, none of which were good for a set of hikers already half-frozen in an estimated -12C inside the tent around 9pm, and -31C wind chill outside of it before this event, with no stove lit and the trench diggers half-dressed. Perhaps they were leaving lighting their stove until bedtime, to ensure it burned through the night, an overhead stove design must've had a limited grate capacity, and then the military search begins at the worst possible moment for them, right at the time when they really needed to light the stove and recover the situation.

1. They emerge and are seen by the helicopter. Even if the group look young and include women, visually the crew would be suspicious of the older man with this young group, just as people are today, and they may well think he could be one of the escapees. It's perhaps unlikely that in 1959 they had a set of mugshots to refer to, and it's dark and snowing. They cannot land on the slope, but possibly could abseil troops down a rope/rope ladder. Any footprints immediately around the tent would disappear in the blown trench snow, as confirmed by the recovery team. If they cannot set someone down they may somehow communicate to the hikers they must set off immediately and meet them at the forest. Dutifully, they do as they are told, quickly fell their tent, and the effects of the cold see some of them leave unprepared. The military are oblivious to how they were dangerously cold to begin with, without heating inside the tent, and do not expect some of them to arrive at the rendezvous half-dressed. After confirming identities they assume the hikers will overnight in the forest or attempt to return to the tent, and leave the search area.

2. They successfully hide, in their freezing trench tomb, canvas and snow above them, sagging/pressing down upon them, immobile for possibly an hour, and in that time those who were half-dressed develop hypothermia. Observation and breather holes have already been cut in the canvas, and when the time comes to leave one or two of those worst affected, unseen by the others in the dark under this 'bedspread', possibly panicking, feeling their are suffocating, or confused by the cold, decide to cut their way out in order to stand, as opposed to a 9-person sideways shuffle on the ground, a process to begin with one of them most affected by wind chill near the tent flap. In seconds the tent is destroyed. The group then assemble nearby to decide what to do then. The better dressed leave, and the others, possibly blamed for the situation, and unable to easily and speedily recover what they need from the snow-pit-for-a-tent, follow them without clothing or shoes, and nobody thinks to take an axe due to the amnesiac effects of the cold affecting their brain function. Later, the idea of a return to the tent is to retrieve the things they needed to take.



3. They hide, but are rumbled. The military are now highly suspicious of them all. They are forced down off the pass, by threat of gunfire, to rendezvous at the forest where the helicopter will land. They do not care if the hikers have what they need, they are not afforded concern for their welfare. If anyone is set down from the helicopter the tent may be vandalised to avoid an immediate return the moment the helicopter leaves the ridge.

1 & 3 should require their IDs to be produced, which remained in their rucksacks, which is why I favour 2.


« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 07:43:51 AM by eurocentric »
 

December 19, 2020, 03:05:00 PM
Reply #133
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.

Good point. Well spotted.
DB
 

December 19, 2020, 04:32:57 PM
Reply #134
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.

It is a good point.  And I had considered and Looked into this.  Most of the lethal radiation blast is neutrons.  That is why it is called a neutron bomb.  Neutrons are not electromagnetic radiation and its unlikely to affect  photographic film much.

Regards

Star man
 

December 20, 2020, 02:10:29 AM
Reply #135
Offline

fdrnas


This is right topic....after processing

 

December 20, 2020, 03:10:08 AM
Reply #136
Offline

Nigel Evans


Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.

It is a good point.  And I had considered and Looked into this.  Most of the lethal radiation blast is neutrons.  That is why it is called a neutron bomb.  Neutrons are not electromagnetic radiation and its unlikely to affect  photographic film much.

Regards

Star man
The dpi isotope(s) were beta emitters which can affect film - https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zt9s2nb/revision/6
 

December 20, 2020, 04:11:59 PM
Reply #137
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.

It is a good point.  And I had considered and Looked into this.  Most of the lethal radiation blast is neutrons.  That is why it is called a neutron bomb.  Neutrons are not electromagnetic radiation and its unlikely to affect  photographic film much.

Regards

Star man
The dpi isotope(s) were beta emitters which can affect film - https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zt9s2nb/revision/6

The isotopes found on the clothes were beta emitters, which could affect the film except the beta radiation would not be able to penetrate the casing of the cameras.  X-rays or gamma could, but whether the cameras were exposed to high levels of gamma would depend on the range to the detonation, the yield of the device and how much shielding is afforded by the casing of the device.    The radiation would predominantly be neutrons. The hikers would have had to be between 600 and 1200 metres from the detonation to have been affected by the radiation, but not iinjured by the blast.  The detonation could not have been on the side of the mountain they were camped as it is likely that some trees etc would have been knocked over.  This would mean that it had to have been above and beyond the summit.  If the mountain was 20 degrees rising to about 30 then the detonation would have been aerial at about 450 metres elevation from their position and 750 to 800 metres horizontally.  Or there abouts.

Regards

Star man
 

December 20, 2020, 11:54:49 PM
Reply #138
Offline

Nigel Evans


Quote from: Star man link=topic=648.msg11570#msg11570

The isotopes found on the clothes were beta emitters, which could affect the film except the beta radiation would not be able to penetrate the casing of the cameras.


Agreed except that Semyon's camera was probably waterlogged with contaminated water and it contains the most interesting frames. The consensus is that Eagle is genuine and i personally think Plane2 could be the best of all.
 

December 21, 2020, 01:00:37 PM
Reply #139
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
DB
 

December 21, 2020, 03:29:54 PM
Reply #140
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Star man

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Quote from: Star man link=topic=648.msg11570#msg11570

The isotopes found on the clothes were beta emitters, which could affect the film except the beta radiation would not be able to penetrate the casing of the cameras.


Agreed except that Semyon's camera was probably waterlogged with contaminated water and it contains the most interesting frames. The consensus is that Eagle is genuine and i personally think Plane2 could be the best of all.

Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera.  Water damage is more likely.  Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.

Regards

Star man
 

December 21, 2020, 03:34:32 PM
Reply #141
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.

There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions.  Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.

Regards

Star man
 

December 22, 2020, 07:45:21 AM
Reply #142
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Nigel Evans



Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera.  Water damage is more likely.  Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.

Regards

Star man


Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.
 

December 22, 2020, 03:54:05 PM
Reply #143
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera.  Water damage is more likely.  Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.

Regards

Star man


Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.

Its difficult to say how much damage was done to the film in Semyons Camera.  But its also difficult to understand the images.  I think with the
 right equipment and expertise more information may be able to be acquired.

Regards

Star man
 

December 22, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
Reply #144
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.

There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions.  Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.

Regards

Star man

I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.
DB
 

December 22, 2020, 05:30:38 PM
Reply #145
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera.  Water damage is more likely.  Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.

Regards

Star man




Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.

Its difficult to say how much damage was done to the film in Semyons Camera.  But its also difficult to understand the images.  I think with the
 right equipment and expertise more information may be able to be acquired.

Regards

Star man

But what would be the right equipment  !  ? 
DB
 

December 23, 2020, 05:08:48 AM
Reply #146
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.

There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions.  Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.

Regards

Star man

I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.

As you say though, there is alot 9f missing evidence.  And d9nt forget that in a situation where 9 of your finest die in a secret accident and don't want your secrets to get out, but you do want to honour the dead and allow respects to be paid, if you can't make the bodies disappear, you can always make the crime scene disappear 8nsread.

Regards

Star man
 

December 23, 2020, 07:29:30 AM
Reply #147

eurocentric

Guest
I doubt there was a radioactive explosion, let alone a massive one, because the same witnesses who saw orange orbs from nearby mountains would also not fail to see, and hear, an explosion. The camera films should show this; nuclear fission reactors also emit neutron radiation, so dosimeter badges are used to detect that too.

It's not my own preferred theory, but to develop the radioactivity theory I'd suggest a rogue missile impacting the mountainside below the hikers, the kinetic energy disintegrating the missile, generating orange orbs, and shards of it and fissile material, of limited decay, is then scattered upwards across the Dyatlov Pass.

In 1966 a B52 bomber collided mid-air with a fuel tanker above Spain and 4 bombs fell, one into the sea and 3 others 'detonated' on land, but not, fortunately, as chain reaction explosions, only the detonators exploded. This scattered fissile material over the coast, and the topsoil had to be excavated and disposed off in thousands of barrels.

Soviet missiles would have failsafes built into them, so a rogue missile didn't take out one of their own populations. You can't fire a nuclear missile and cross your fingers it hits the planned test area, it would need to be remotely armed/disarmed during flight, followed on radar, or sighted from the air. Maybe this one ran out of fuel and fell early.

In this 'nuclear missile impact' scenario the hikers would be up there to get best vantage of a planned detonation on the horizon, cameras at the ready. Perhaps they knew of this through Semyon, or more likely Igor's pilot friend, who later assisted in the recovery.

Ejected/scattered material may then account for some of the rips to the tent, all on the downslope side, and it could account for some of the head injuries (I've always felt that rather than 2 flail chests of identical fractures, and an understandly loose hyoid bone after the supporting tissues have rotted away, that it's the number of head injuries which is potentially most suspicious in the DPI).

If some fissile material entered the tent, landing between the two Yuris, that could account for their burns, from close proximity/physical contact. The radiation burns would take time to develop, so that by the time they reached the forest they'd be incapable of assisting in a hunt for firewood due to the symptoms of radiation sickness, and tissue degradation could continue after death.

There is then the circumstantial evidence of locals being told not to drink from the ravines, helicopter recovery pilots demanding bodies were in lead-lined coffins, and geiger counters needing to be used.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 08:29:27 AM by eurocentric »
 

December 23, 2020, 07:38:30 AM
Reply #148

eurocentric

Guest

Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera.  Water damage is more likely.  Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.

Regards

Star man




Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.

Its difficult to say how much damage was done to the film in Semyons Camera.  But its also difficult to understand the images.  I think with the
 right equipment and expertise more information may be able to be acquired.

Regards

Star man

But what would be the right equipment  !  ?


I'd want them to have the negatives professionally scanned at the highest possible resolution. dpi the DPI. For posterity, to preserve the images, not just for analysis. And it would be easy to have the negative image grain inspected to determine if the images we see are part of the exposures or film damage to the emulsion surface. Once they have the best possible source material all kinds of present and future digital manipulation can be done to interpret the images.
 

December 23, 2020, 02:55:10 PM
Reply #149
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.

There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions.  Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.

Regards

Star man

I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.

As you say though, there is alot 9f missing evidence.  And d9nt forget that in a situation where 9 of your finest die in a secret accident and don't want your secrets to get out, but you do want to honour the dead and allow respects to be paid, if you can't make the bodies disappear, you can always make the crime scene disappear 8nsread.

Regards

Star man

I think it would take a long time to make the aftermath of a Nuclear Explosion disappear !  ? 
DB