November 28, 2022, 09:20:13 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Photographs  (Read 26953 times)

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November 23, 2020, 05:00:34 PM
Reply #90
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sarapuk

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With 1959 camera technology getting close might help a lot.

Actually some of those old Russian Cameras were very good. I had some Russian Optical equipment back in the 1960s / 70's.
DB
 

November 23, 2020, 05:02:32 PM
Reply #91
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sarapuk

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If the group had seen lights in the sky before the night of Feb. 1, wouldn't it be mentioned in the group diary? It would have been a significant sighting. If the group had heard of lights in the sky before the hike began, wouldn't that also have been mentioned in one of the diaries? Their expedition would have potential scientific importance and generated excitement within the group. But no one writes about it.

Many things are missing though. How do we know that some of the Diaries were not spirited away.
DB
 

November 23, 2020, 05:04:01 PM
Reply #92
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sarapuk

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If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?

Regards

Star man

A very good point.
DB
 

November 23, 2020, 05:07:08 PM
Reply #93
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sarapuk

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If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?

Regards

Star man
Or equally why not finish of the roll and then change it?

Just thinking that it was dark, cold and changing the film might take some time.  A full film means less chance of missing a shot you might want.  Its possible he just wanted to use his film up, but if you knew there was going to be something worth taking photographs of, and you specifically chose your camp site to take them, I would want a full film roll ready.

Regards

Star man


Well clearly he didn't and it's not important? I'd much rather be discussing why the tent was pitched with the entrance facing into the wind. Imo that's a smoking gun.

But its very important. After all we are supposed to think that the Dyatlov Group went to the very exposed position to pitch their Tent and take Photos of Lights in the Sky. So they would want to be fully equipped for that.
DB
 

November 23, 2020, 05:09:16 PM
Reply #94
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sarapuk

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It is strange to pitch the tent with the entrance facing the wind. Perhaps it was thought that when you step outside to relieve yourself, it's better to step on an up slope. Should you slip and fall, you'd fall back through the entrance into the tent. If the entrance faced the other direction and you slipped, you'd slide or roll down the slope. Just a thought...

Directions of Winds can change. We dont know the exact time that they pitched their Tent or the Wind speed and direction at the time.
DB
 

November 24, 2020, 03:29:31 AM
Reply #95
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Nigel Evans


If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?

Regards

Star man
Or equally why not finish of the roll and then change it?

Just thinking that it was dark, cold and changing the film might take some time.  A full film means less chance of missing a shot you might want.  Its possible he just wanted to use his film up, but if you knew there was going to be something worth taking photographs of, and you specifically chose your camp site to take them, I would want a full film roll ready.

Regards

Star man


Well clearly he didn't and it's not important? I'd much rather be discussing why the tent was pitched with the entrance facing into the wind. Imo that's a smoking gun.

But its very important. After all we are supposed to think that the Dyatlov Group went to the very exposed position to pitch their Tent and take Photos of Lights in the Sky. So they would want to be fully equipped for that.
Maybe he was planning to do just that but events overtook his plans. Maybe he was going to have something to eat first. Maybe he planned to get an hours sleep before an all night vigil. Lots of maybes either way.
 

November 24, 2020, 02:01:44 PM
Reply #96
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sarapuk

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Yep there are plenty of maybe's put into the Dyatlov Mystery.  I guess that the maybe's have to make up for the lack of evidence.
DB
 

November 27, 2020, 04:30:46 PM
Reply #97
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Star man

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If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man
 

November 27, 2020, 05:00:42 PM
Reply #98
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Nigel Evans


If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
 

November 28, 2020, 08:34:09 AM
Reply #99

eurocentric

Guest
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.


Lens flares can also be caused by artificial lights, not just the Sun. It requires a light source which is bright enough, relative to the rest of the scene, and at an angle to the lens, which is made up of numerous pieces of ground glass, which the bright light then reflects off. A torch could do the same on a dark night.

Modern camera lenses have multicoated optics to minimise this, or the photographer will use a lens hood.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 11:02:45 AM by eurocentric »
 

November 28, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
Reply #100
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.

And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.
DB
 

November 29, 2020, 04:07:41 AM
Reply #101
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Nigel Evans


If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.

And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.


Not in a snowstorm with visibility less than 100metres?
 

November 30, 2020, 01:51:32 PM
Reply #102
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.

And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.


Not in a snowstorm with visibility less than 100metres?

But surely if there is a snow storm then it makes no difference anyway. The storm is likely to affect lower and higher ground.
DB
 

November 30, 2020, 03:18:45 PM
Reply #103
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.

It looks like something bright, there is no mistake there.  Can the image be cleaned up?  If there are experts on this type of film, or camera, is it possible to enhance the image? 

Regards

Star man
 

November 30, 2020, 03:23:31 PM
Reply #104
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.

And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.


Not in a snowstorm with visibility less than 100metres?

But surely if there is a snow storm then it makes no difference anyway. The storm is likely to affect lower and higher ground.

Good point.  I think though that the key point is that Marley's analysis suggests frame 34 is a deliberate and planned shot of something and could hold clues to what happened to the hikers. 

Regards

Star man
 

December 02, 2020, 01:12:39 PM
Reply #105
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:

1.  Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2.  Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?

Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.

So what did Krivo take a photograph of?

Regards

Star man


A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.

And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.


Not in a snowstorm with visibility less than 100metres?

But surely if there is a snow storm then it makes no difference anyway. The storm is likely to affect lower and higher ground.

Good point.  I think though that the key point is that Marley's analysis suggests frame 34 is a deliberate and planned shot of something and could hold clues to what happened to the hikers. 

Regards

Star man

Well there is that old saying, every picture tells a story. And also in the Dyatlov Case maybe its a question of, every missing picture tells a story.
DB
 

December 06, 2020, 02:57:30 AM
Reply #106
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GKM


My apologies if this question has been asked and answered. Has a professional lab ever reviewed these photos? Studied them in a professional manner by men and women trained to do so?
 

December 06, 2020, 05:03:57 AM
Reply #107
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Nigel Evans


My apologies if this question has been asked and answered. Has a professional lab ever reviewed these photos? Studied them in a professional manner by men and women trained to do so?


Not as far as i know (remember that we're at some distance from what happens in Russia). We don't even have all the negatives online so questions wrt magnification are unanswered, e.g. just what is the scale of plane2?


Having said that some of the posters here seem quite knowledgeable, but forced to work with limited access to the original materials of course. The concensus seems to be that Eagle is a genuine photo of an aerial light emitting object, possibly a helicopter searchlight (which curiously manages to not illuminate the helicopter even though the ground and trees are covered in snow which reflects light!) or something more exotic. Yuri K's #34 splits opinion, ditto Rustem's.


My personal (non image expert) view is that explaining several shots as accidental exposures is possible but somewhat improbable and if eagle is genuine then the balance of probability is that they all are, but i am biased of course.


Currently I like the theory that #34 was taken by YuriK on the tripod in the tent and the three heads are the bottom of the hole cut in the canvas for the stove's chimney. Then the tent was hit by lightning which passed through his leg giving him a third degree burn and caused him to snap the tent pole and break the filter. In great pain he panicked and slashed the tent to escape probably accidentally cutting YuriD's hand in the confusion. If the tent then started glowing with st elmo's fire then you have sufficient reason for them to fear returning to the tent for more clothing. Plus i would suspect other electrical fireworks as well. I think that area produces electrical charge horizontally in the same way that a thundercloud produces it vertically. Night fall strengthened the production via katabatic winds turning up the "volume". Digging through a metre of insulating snow created an earth. That's why the snow on the tent and surrounding it was so hard the area was repeatedly warmed (by electric discharge) and refrozen over the next three weeks. Then on the descent one group got hit by lightning or explosive ball lightning. Basically they camped in the middle of an electrical storm that normally only occurs in tropical clouds at altitude.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:02:57 AM by Teddy »
 

December 06, 2020, 05:13:31 AM
Reply #108
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Nigel Evans


Imagine camping in the middle of this :-
 

December 06, 2020, 07:45:36 AM
Reply #109
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MDGross


Your scenario is well thought out and offers good details, Nigel. It's interesting to me that according to the weather map that pops up in the video, the lightning storm is near my hometown of Lincoln, Nebraska. I remember growing up watching severe yet fascinating lightning storms. One time I saw lightning hit a railroad track with a very loud explosion. It scared the s**t out of me. If such a lightning event happened to the Dyatlov group, I can understand their fear.
Tents don't attract lightning, but if Yuri K's metal tripod was poking out of the top of the tent, it would be a lightning rod for sure. I also like your scenario because in fear and panic you are not thinking rationally. I always believe that the hikers acted irrationally and had no thought of dressing more warmly.
Besides a lightning storm, I feel the other contenders for irrational action, are infrasound and toxic fume from an exploded missile. But the lightning storm scenario checks off the most boxes.
 

December 06, 2020, 08:48:03 AM
Reply #110
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Nigel Evans


Hi thanks for your thoughts but you're mistaken wrt the metal argument. Lightning conductors are made of conducting metal to negate the build up of electrical charge in the atmosphere above. But if they are not there then the risk is that charge build up will become so strong that it will pass through the building to the ground (typically with the assistance of rain) causing huge damage. That's why it's dangerous to stand under a tree, because they don't contain metal. The wet tall tree will attract lightning which can jump across to you as it seeks a path to earth with injury or death.


In this case the tree, is a bamboo pole probably dampened with condensation from seven bodies and YuriK is too close because he's manning the camera.
 

December 06, 2020, 08:49:06 AM
Reply #111
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Nigel Evans


P.S. from memory the homemade tripod was also made of bamboo.
 

December 06, 2020, 12:52:01 PM
Reply #112
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MDGross


Yes, you are correct about lightning rods. Serious case of my brain cramping.
Didn't realize the tripod was made of bamboo. I guess it could fold into smaller pieces so that it could fit into a backpack.
 

December 06, 2020, 05:19:05 PM
Reply #113
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Vietnamka


My apologies if this question has been asked and answered. Has a professional lab ever reviewed these photos? Studied them in a professional manner by men and women trained to do so?
Not in lab, but  one guy was doing experiments trying to get a similar image under different conditions (he is an engineer in the USA). Here are the results in russian  (he  left the topic long time ago)
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=1258.0







« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:02:22 AM by Teddy »
 

December 07, 2020, 04:53:35 AM
Reply #114
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Nigel Evans


There's a whole chapter and appendix on it. You even get to see Plane 3!


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MFBW8W0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
 

December 07, 2020, 02:49:49 PM
Reply #115
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
My apologies if this question has been asked and answered. Has a professional lab ever reviewed these photos? Studied them in a professional manner by men and women trained to do so?

Almost certainly studied by the Government of the former USSR. And dont forget the missing Cameras and missing Film.
DB
 

December 11, 2020, 10:13:17 PM
Reply #116
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RidgeWatcher


If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
 

December 12, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
Reply #117
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Nigel Evans


If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?


He'd have to climb over 8 sleeping people to get out? And then again when returning? Looks like Semyon and Nicolai were handling the external stuff?
 

December 12, 2020, 02:48:57 AM
Reply #118
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?

Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?

Regards
Star man
 

December 12, 2020, 01:22:57 PM
Reply #119

eurocentric

Guest
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.

But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.

I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.

The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.

Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 01:58:52 PM by eurocentric »