November 30, 2022, 11:53:18 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: The cuts on tent simply doesn't make any sense  (Read 1096 times)

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May 13, 2022, 05:08:33 AM
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Sunny


I can accept some  cuts were maybe made in panic, in a hurry. But those horisontal cuts up in the tent are made (to my opinion) on a calm and careful way. Not in any kind of hurry or panic. This just doesn't add up at all, if you assume there was anykind of avalance or slab avalance. Or any kind of fear for their lives. Someone said the tent fabric must be tight to make those long vertical cuts. I agree. It is very difficult to cut long straight cuts if the tent is lying down on top of you, there's snow piled on it, and it's pitch dark. I don't know how some people think this is how it happened...And there's no point trying to cut the tent in complete straight line, like some cuts are made. Why? For what purpose? If you need fresh air in tent, you open the door. If you need to peak out, you peak from door way. If you  need to get out, or get injured bodies out, you go from door. If the door is shut, like it may have been by snow, then one cut-no matter how it is made- should be enough for all to get out.
I can't read all the other theories on this web site about the tent and the cuts. Maybe some of you have a theory, why the cuts were made, and why this way, either straight horisontal, or straight vertical way?
 

May 14, 2022, 02:25:31 PM
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Jean Daniel Reuss


..................................................................
 Maybe some of you have a theory, why the cuts were made, and why this way, either straight horisontal, or straight vertical way?
.................................................


Of course I have one theory. It allows us to reconstruct all the main lines of the DPI, even if some of the particular actions remain in doubt.
I call it the TOKEB theory in honour and gratitude to those who found the essential key elements.

TOKEB = Eduard Tumanov + Per Inge Oestmoen + Aleks Kandr + EBE + BottledBrunette

Summary in one single row :
 A sponsor or client from Vizhay, pays 3 mercenary contract killers with the mission to kill the 9 hikers.

The overwhelming evidence of a surprise attack by brutish murderers, absolutely determined to leave no survivors, is categorised as a criminal theory and is therefore for various reasons (psychological, political.......) rejected by a majority of commentators.

At no time none of the 9 hikers would have damaged or cut the precious tent which was essential to their survival and which they had very often sewn back together. For the hikers the old tent was almost like a sacred object, at least during the hike in the snow.

It was obviously the attackers who on the morning of February 2, 1959, after having rested and eaten some of the hikers' provisions (inside the then undamaged tent), cut the canvas any way they could, before leaving off again in the direction of North-2.

Put yourself in the shoes of the attackers in the tent on the morning of 2 February 1959. They are celebrating their hard-won victory, but they are suffering painfully from the punches they received in the face from the 5 hikers who have damaged fists; (Kolgomorova, Slobodin, Doroshenko, Dyatlov, Krivonischenko in chronological order of disabling).

In the natural gestures of revenge, hatred and rage the attackers destroy and randomly lacerate the last symbol of the hikers (who did not die without a hard resistance).

But the tent does not fall in small pieces easily and the result of their destructive will is not very spectacular :


Moreover, according to Aleks Kandr, the missing part of the canvas was used by the attackers (murderers) to make a protective band (soldier's puttees), replacing the one lost near the Den.

For the unwritten TOKEB theory, see :
Eduard Tumanov : https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0     +   videos
Aleks Kandr : http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
Per Inge Oestmoen : https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=325
Jean Daniel Reuss : https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=613
EBE : https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=984
BottledBrunette : https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=326
Jean Daniel Reuss

Rational guidance =

• There is nothing supernatural and mysterious about the injuries suffered by the Dyatlov group. They are all consistent with an attack by a group of professional killers who wanted to take the lives of the nine  [Per Inge Oestmoen].

• Now let us search for answers to: WHO ? WHY ? HOW ?

• The scenario must be consistent with the historical, political and psychological  contexts.

• The solution takes in consideration all known findings.
 

May 17, 2022, 03:39:51 PM
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Manti


About the cuts I have two theories

A.

The investigation was botched, evidence not collected with enough care. The cuts in this scenario are made by searchers' ice axes as they were digging out the tent.

Counterarguments: the cuts being apparently from the inside, however this might be a mistake of the person who examined the tent.


B.

Hypothermic hallucinations. The cuts were made by a member or members of the Dyatlov group, in a state of hypothermic delirium or paranoia which set in already in the tent. Remember that the tent was unheated, exposed to the wind on the slope that was compared to the speed of airflow from a jet engine. In this scenario, the group is already getting hypothermic on their ascent up Kholat. They see no other option but to set up the tent as some members can't continue, however, they fail to install the stove for some reason. Some members of the group are in more advanced hypothermia and start hallucinating and cut the tent. At this point the group leaves for the forest, their last hope is starting a campfire. Some succumb on the way.


Somewhat supporting this are the autopsies stating they died 6-8 hours after their last meal, and my recent readings about hypothermia victims among Mount Everest climbers, who in some cases took more than 8 hours to die after becoming immobile in similar temperatures and windchill.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 03:45:08 PM by Manti »
 

May 29, 2022, 03:23:26 PM
Reply #3
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I can accept some  cuts were maybe made in panic, in a hurry. But those horisontal cuts up in the tent are made (to my opinion) on a calm and careful way. Not in any kind of hurry or panic. This just doesn't add up at all, if you assume there was anykind of avalance or slab avalance. Or any kind of fear for their lives. Someone said the tent fabric must be tight to make those long vertical cuts. I agree. It is very difficult to cut long straight cuts if the tent is lying down on top of you, there's snow piled on it, and it's pitch dark. I don't know how some people think this is how it happened...And there's no point trying to cut the tent in complete straight line, like some cuts are made. Why? For what purpose? If you need fresh air in tent, you open the door. If you need to peak out, you peak from door way. If you  need to get out, or get injured bodies out, you go from door. If the door is shut, like it may have been by snow, then one cut-no matter how it is made- should be enough for all to get out.
I can't read all the other theories on this web site about the tent and the cuts. Maybe some of you have a theory, why the cuts were made, and why this way, either straight horisontal, or straight vertical way?

Plenty of discussion has taken place in this Forum on the cuts to the Tent.
DB
 
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June 11, 2022, 04:30:11 PM
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Star man

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The cuts were probably made after the tree fell on the tent while it was in the ravine area.  Those who were able cut their way out.  Later the tent was moved onto the mountain during the cover up.

Regards

Star man
 

June 15, 2022, 06:06:33 PM
Reply #5
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sarapuk

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A tree falling on a tent is probably going to make a bit of a mess to the fabric. We dont see that mess but we do see what appears to be clean cuts in the fabric.
DB
 
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August 13, 2022, 05:27:48 PM
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GlennM


Conspiracists hold that a branch fell in the woods, injuring the tourists. Those who caused the branch to fall then did their best to cover up their accident/crime. This included moving the tent up the slope of 1079 and staging that scene. It strikes me as wrong for these reasons. First and foremost,  there were easily identified footprints leading from the tent, but none leading toward it! Secondly, there were no drag marks or other evidence of the damaged tent and camp gear being carried up the hill. Third, how are the scattered remains of the tourists any sort of a deception? It does not pass the sniff test.
 

August 15, 2022, 02:39:40 PM
Reply #7
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Ziljoe


I would speculate that that some of the cuts to the tent would have been done when the searchers tried to find out what was inside. They would not know if there were bodies inside so unlikely push a knife in to the canvas incase they damaged anything inside . Perhaps small cuts were made from the outside to be able to put a hand in, then rotate the knife and cut up and outwards . It all depends on how the searchers dismantled the tent, which we have little information on.

However , we have 3 reasonable explanations for the injuries of the fractures.

A tree/branch falling, a snow collapse at the ravine and outsiders using some sort of physical force.

To me ,it can only be one of these three . The lack of evidence of other people , footprints etc is a problem.
 

August 16, 2022, 02:30:44 AM
Reply #8
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GlennM


I have busted the knees out of denim blue jeans. Even if the tear happened from outside, the fray always looks like it came from inside. The fray is always pushed out. Could the canvas tent be similar in a way?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 08:06:44 PM by GlennM »
 

August 17, 2022, 02:32:18 AM
Reply #9
Online

Ziljoe


I have busted the knees out of denim blue jeans. Even if the tear happened from outside, the fray always looks like it came from inside. The fray is always pushed out. Could the canvas tent be similar in a way?

I guess it's next to impossible to know. Although , the reports seem quite confident that there was evidence that some of the cuts were made from the inside. If the cuts were done from the outside it just adds to the mystery ....
 

August 17, 2022, 08:12:20 AM
Reply #10
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Игорь Б.


Экспертизой установлено, что все разрезы сделаны изнутри. Об этом говорят царапины от ножа на ткани перед разрезом и после него.
У поисковиков ножей не было. Они рубили полотнище палатки ледорубом и рвали руками.
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

September 06, 2022, 04:26:18 PM
Reply #11
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sarapuk

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Apparently the tent disappeared with the fall of the USSR. We are led to believe that it was found, but in such poor condition that it was destroyed  ! ? Or maybe it wasn't destroyed. If we could examine that tent today we may find something interesting.
DB
 
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September 06, 2022, 05:22:35 PM
Reply #12
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Ziljoe


Hi sarapuk,

Great to see you back. I mean that in a good way. Hope yo are well. 👍
 

September 06, 2022, 06:27:51 PM
Reply #13
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GlennM


 

November 27, 2022, 04:25:01 PM
Reply #14
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Per Inge Oestmoen



To me ,it can only be one of these three . The lack of evidence of other people , footprints etc is a problem.


From February 2th to February 26th when the tent was discovered, almost a month had passed. Would you expect that traces left by attackers, in particular as they would likely have used skis, were still present?
 

November 27, 2022, 04:40:58 PM
Reply #15
Online

Ziljoe


Hi Per Inge Oestmoen.

There's a problem, or should say many. .

The dyatlov ski tracks and Mansi tracks were seen in various detail. The dyatlov foot prints were also evident. For the amount of work needed to be done and, for attackers to know their foot prints or ski tracks would not be visible 3 weeks later raises questions. I don't think they would carry out an attack without accepting their would be some kind of physical trail. Depending on how you think these attackers did their attack might have some merit to not evidence left. Depends how you propose they were murdered. What are your thoughts on the methods of killing?

 

November 27, 2022, 05:42:50 PM
Reply #16
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GlennM




To add on, I believe it axiomatic in forensics that everyone leaves a trace of themselves as evidence of where they come from. Everyone takes something when they leave.  If there was hostility at the camp at elevation 880, the aggressors both brought and left with evidence in some form. The tracks, or lack thereof falls into this category. Since the DP9 left clear trace evidence of foot and ski tracks, so to would agressors. Only a fundamental attribution error would explain that the prints associated with the DP9 going down slope were in fact those of the aggressor. Teddy claims the boot heel impressions reinforce this belief. This of course begs the question, " If the tracks were the aggressors,  where are the tracks of the DP9?"   Trace evidence over a winter, let alone six decades usually disappears.  But then again, Teddy et.al. find a milk tin in the woods. Perhaps, some day a diary will be found from the alleged killers. As of now, I feel the tragedy was caused and finished by the forces of Nature, not Man. The hikers response to their circumstance, of course is vexing. If they were attacked,  the case is even more vexing.
 

November 28, 2022, 03:57:08 AM
Reply #17
Online

Per Inge Oestmoen




To add on, I believe it axiomatic in forensics that everyone leaves a trace of themselves as evidence of where they come from. Everyone takes something when they leave.  If there was hostility at the camp at elevation 880, the aggressors both brought and left with evidence in some form. The tracks, or lack thereof falls into this category. Since the DP9 left clear trace evidence of foot and ski tracks, so to would agressors. Only a fundamental attribution error would explain that the prints associated with the DP9 going down slope were in fact those of the aggressor. Teddy claims the boot heel impressions reinforce this belief. This of course begs the question, " If the tracks were the aggressors,  where are the tracks of the DP9?"   Trace evidence over a winter, let alone six decades usually disappears.  But then again, Teddy et.al. find a milk tin in the woods. Perhaps, some day a diary will be found from the alleged killers. As of now, I feel the tragedy was caused and finished by the forces of Nature, not Man. The hikers response to their circumstance, of course is vexing. If they were attacked,  the case is even more vexing.




To add on, I believe it axiomatic in forensics that everyone leaves a trace of themselves as evidence of where they come from. Everyone takes something when they leave.  If there was hostility at the camp at elevation 880, the aggressors both brought and left with evidence in some form. The tracks, or lack thereof falls into this category. Since the DP9 left clear trace evidence of foot and ski tracks, so to would agressors. Only a fundamental attribution error would explain that the prints associated with the DP9 going down slope were in fact those of the aggressor. Teddy claims the boot heel impressions reinforce this belief. This of course begs the question, " If the tracks were the aggressors,  where are the tracks of the DP9?"   Trace evidence over a winter, let alone six decades usually disappears.  But then again, Teddy et.al. find a milk tin in the woods. Perhaps, some day a diary will be found from the alleged killers. As of now, I feel the tragedy was caused and finished by the forces of Nature, not Man. The hikers response to their circumstance, of course is vexing. If they were attacked,  the case is even more vexing.


Why this resistance to the reality that all available evidence from the corpses points to murder?

None of the injuries can be attributed to natural causes. Even Igor Dyatlov, the one among the nine who likely died from hypothermia, was found to have clear marks of violence: In all probability he had handcuffs on his feet to ensure that he laid still and froze to death.

By the way, why would present-day Russian authorities state that an avalanche or snow slab is the only acceptable cause, when it has been conclusively proven that it is impossible? They want to hide the reality, which would cause political unrest in 1959 and in 2022. The incessant cover-ups and denials are alone enogh to tell us that they knew very well what happened.
 
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November 28, 2022, 04:09:28 AM
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Charles


the reality, which would cause political unrest in 1959 and in 2022.

I think you made a very good point here.

There is something in Dyatlov case which is worse and uglier than the killings of 1937-1938, because in 1989, authorities could open the mass grave of Zolotoya Gora near Chelyabinsk and face the 20,000 bodies shot in the head by the NKVD, but still, they can't face the truth about the 9 hikers of Dyatlov case. The case is related to an uglier and more disturbing reality than 1937-1938.

A good question to ask is: what could be worse than the 1937-1938 executions of about 400,000 Russian people?

And I think the answer is related to the tasks completed by the financial directors of the NKVD, by people like Sergey Kolevatov, the father of Alexander Kolevatov.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2022, 04:13:51 AM by Charles »