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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Thoughts on the book  (Read 13435 times)

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May 17, 2021, 10:48:59 PM
Reply #120
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Teddy

Administrator
First of all - thank you for the adequate question. We spent time researching this theory, please give me a chance to tell you more about our efforts.

You said that you were collecting autopsy photos of tree fall victims. I want to ask you with respect to the victims and the Dyatlov tourists, how similar are the injuries?

It is all done out of respect to the hikers. Once because I fill them kindred souls being born under the regime, Bulgaria was the baby brother of the Soviet Union, and then brought up in Cuba since age 5. I don't have to tell you about Fidel Castro. Twice - I am a mountaineer, in certain climates we hang hammocks under the trees. I need to know more about trees. In fact I believe this is going to be the continuation of the cause - rising awareness about incidents involving trees.

The quote is very true although a hybrid between:
Les hommes sont tous condamnés à mort avec des sursis indéfinis.
We are all under sentence of death, but with a sort of indefinite reprieve.
— Victor Hugo

They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it’s night once more.
 — Samuel Beckett, "Waiting for Godot"

I like them both, and Samuel Beckett is already on the front of the forum.

About the respect. How come people like the idea of vicious attack against the group or them acting like no-brain zombies and causing their own demise with absurd behavior and risks?
Any other theory I have come across has one of the other. Our is the only one that doesn't blame the group of nothing. Someone else did something that created the mystery, not them. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, which is the exact definition of a fallen tree accident.

Back to your question about the injuries. They are in chapter 25:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 2015 in the Kirov region, a cut down tree fell and struck a man nearby.
"The death of the victim occurred as a result of an open traumatic brain injury including: a bruised head wound on the left, fractures of the frontal bone on the left with spread to the bones of the base of the skull, which form the anterior cranial fossa, hemorrhages: in the soft tissues of the head, above the dura mater, under the soft cerebral membranes, bruising and destruction of the brain tissue of a severe degree, complicated by edema and wedging of the brain substance."

A similar case took place in 2013 in the Kurgan region.
"A tree trunk broke off and fell on a victim who was nearby, causing bodily harm including: a closed craniocerebral injury, bruising of the eyelids in both eyes (a spectacle haematoma), extensive hemorrhage in the soft tissues of the head, depressed fragmentary fracture of the vault and base of the skull with the formation of subdural (250 ml) and total subarachnoid hemorrhages, partial crushing of the brain substance of the left parietal and occipital lobes, multiple small-focal and focal hemorrhages in the brain substance and trunk, extensive bleeding in the soft tissues of the head; closed chest injury: extensive bruising of a pale bluish color of the anterior surface of the chest, with a transition to the anterior surface of the right shoulder joint, straight oblique-transverse fractures of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ribs on the left along the scapular line, with damage to the parietal pleura and tissue of the left lung with extensive hemorrhages in the surrounding soft tissues; direct oblique fractures of the 6th, 7th rib of the paravertebral line without damage to the parietal pleura with extensive hemorrhages into the surrounding soft tissue; scomminuted fractures of 3, 4, 5, 6 thoracic vertebrae with extensive hemorrhages in the surrounding soft tissues; extensive bruising of the upper third of the left shoulder, direct comminuted fracture of the right humerus with the formation of extensive hemorrhage into the surrounding soft tissues; extensive bruising of the lower third of both thighs. Direct, oblique fractures of the lower third of the diaphysis of both femurs with the formation of extensive hemorrhages in the surrounding soft tissues ... which resulted in death."

In 2015, in the Republic of Mari El, a cut down tree fell on the head of a victim who was close by and caused the following injuries:
"...hemorrhage in the scalp, multi-splintered depressed fracture of the bones of the cranial vault, comminuted fracture of the basal skull, rupture of the dura mater of the left hemisphere of the brain with hemorrhages along the edges of the rupture, crushing of the substance of the outer surface of the temporal lobe of the left hemisphere of the brain, hemorrhages in the substance of the medulla oblongata and the left hemisphere of the cerebellum, complete rupture of the brain stem at the level of the Varolian bridge with crush and hemorrhage in the area of rupture, fractures of the lower jaw with hemorrhages at the edges of the fractures... From these injuries… the victim died on the scene of the accident..."

In 2013 another man was also found under a fallen tree in the Udmurt Republic.
"According to the medical report stating the nature of the injuries received, the diagnosis was made: open craniocerebral injury, brain contusion, open depressed fracture of the right parietal bone… According to the forensic medical examination report, the death was caused by a basilar skull fracture"

In all these cases, trees fell on standing people. First, the head and the upper part of the body were struck. The traumatizing continued while the victim was falling, which resulted in polytrauma. Some of these traumas are similar to those found on the bodies of some members of the Dyatlov group, such as rib fractures, craniocerebral injuries, bruises. But the injuries of the dead hikers were localized.
In 2018, after Zolotaryov’s exhumation, a forensic medical examination report was drawn up.
"The examination of the bones revealed fractures of the right 2nd - 6th ribs along the parasternal and posterior axillary lines. The nature of the fractures along the parasternal line is extensor, along the posterior axillary line it is flexion. On the peri-sternal line, extensor fractures of the 2nd - 5th ribs are complete, there are no fragments; the extensor fracture of the 6th rib is incomplete. There are three linear fractures of the right scapula: in the supraspinatus fossa it is horizontal, in the infraspinatus fossa it is vertical, and it is horizontal above the lower angle. All the fractures are extension ones. The detected fractures of the 2nd - 6th right ribs and fractures of the right scapula were formed simultaneously as a result of excessive compression of the right half of the chest in the direction from the sternum to the spine and somewhat from right to left. The area of traumatic impact is the front and, partially, the lateral surface of the right half of the chest. It is most likely that S.A. Zolotaryov was lying on his back at the time of the traumatic impact..."

In 2020, a big tree fell on a tent in Bulgaria. People were lying inside, and a woman died.
"On the skin of the left cheek, in its upper part, a superficial, irregularly shaped round abrasion with a diameter of about 1.5-2 cm is visible. On the skin behind the left auricle, two more small superficial abrasions of a rounded shape with a diameter of about 2 3 mm and a linear abrasion of about 1 cm long are visible. Along the anterior surface of the right auricle in the middle upper part, there is a spotted bluish bruise about 2.5 to 3 cm in diameter. Two superficial linear abrasions about 3x0.5 cm in size are visible on the skin of the upper front of the neck. A similar abrasion about 4x0.3 0.8 cm is also present on the skin of the lower jaw. In the upper part of the neck, on the right side, there is a bruise about 1 cm in diameter. On the skin of the chest, in the upper right part, above and below the collarbone, several oval-shaped bruises about 8x5 cm are visible. Two superficial reddish abrasions with a diameter of about 0.5 cm and a size of about 1x0.5 cm are visible on the skin of the abdomen in its upper half on the left in front. Along the anterior surface of the right lower leg in the upper two-thirds to the lower part of the knee, there is a large longitudinal wound of a linear shape about 35 cm long. On the skin in the rest of the upper and lower limbs, mainly on the front and outer parts, there are several linear abrasions ranging in size from 1x05 cm to 15x cm in different directions and several bruises with a diameter of 1 3 cm... No injuries of the sternum, both collarbones, and all ribs… The pelvic bones are broken, there are vertical fractures in the front and back to the right in the sacrum… The rest of the pelvic and spine bones are not injured..."

All the injuries are localized. The man who was lying in the tent next to the deceased woman survived and his only injury was a fractured collarbone. The head of the forensic medicine department where the body was taken noted that there was gray foam coming out of her mouth. The cause of death was mechanical asphyxia. This is very similar to Doroshenko. The woman lived under the rubble for 15 20 minutes. This sounds familiar too. Dubinina could have lived for 10-20 minutes, Zolotaryov even longer (*).
The experts assumed that, at the time of the traumatic impact, Zolotaryov was lying on his back. Dubinina received similar fractures. The rest of the hikers were most likely also lying at the time of the injury. The incident in Bulgaria shows that a tree falling onto lying people causes local injuries of varying severity, from bruises to severe fractures. Similar injuries were observed in 1959.
When given the autopsy reports and asked to comment on the possible causes of injuries of Zolotaryov, Dubinina, and Thibeaux-Brignolle, Plamen Dimitrov Doctor of Medical Sciences, Head of the Department of Forensic Medicine at the Kaneff University Hospital (Ruse, Bulgaria), said: "If you are asking me whether these injuries could have been caused by a tree falling on the three of them while they were lying down, I cannot exclude such a version, it is consistent - it sounds plausible!"

In which case, in winter conditions, can a blow take nine lying hikers unawares? Only if they are sleeping in the tent.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 11:25:07 PM by Teddy »

May 17, 2021, 11:19:25 PM
Reply #121
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Teddy

Administrator
Douglas Preston: "I have a friend who a few months ago was struck by a falling tree, which broke most of his ribs in very much the same way as some of the Dyatlov victims, and he is now paralyzed. Your theory makes eminent sense to me."



I started showing up at incidents sites with fallen trees on top of tents and befriending the medical examiners – they invited me to attend the autopsies. In one of the incidents a woman dies without a single broken bone from mechanical asphyxiation. Somehow the tree propped itself but didn’t leave her enough space to breathe. There was gray foam coming out of her mouth. This is what Doroshenko had too. The conspiracy theorists say that may be because the CIA used to sit on the chest of a person during interrogations. Another wild interpretation is that Zina’s hair was messy because, the conspiracy says, whoever was after them roughed her up. This would be torture for a beauty like Zina, messing with her hair, as frightening as tearing the tongue out of Lyuda’s mouth. Things are not balanced in this case. The medical examiner of the incident from the photo told me that when tree falls is like the Rapture – one is gone, the one lying next continues living. This is one disaster that can affect people clustered together very differently.

During the autopsy I mentioned that I have 6 broken ribs and flail chest, like Dubinina, to instigate a comment on how they can tell old from new injuries. The medical examiner looked at me with dreamy eyes and said: “Your autopsy would be very interesting.” I got myself into an automobile accident hours later and the nearest morgue was the one I just had left. On the photo I am with the white Peugeot. The father of the woman driving the red car had died days before. She flew from Paris for his funeral. This is what he left her, the red car. It has been sitting in the garage for 10 years. She never thought of checking the tires, they were smooth as glass, it was raining; on braking she lost control and started spinning. I had all the time in the world thinking how interesting my autopsy will be.

At the autopsy where I was present I was explained, for example, why the autopsy in 1959 missed the two fractures on Zolotaryov's scapula. They were only registered at his exhumation. To see the scapula you need a back incision. Nowadays in unnatural deaths where broken bones are expected the body undergoes computed tomography scanning before the autopsy and the image diagnostics tools help with the autopsy.

One interesting detail about the man with the blurred face killed by the tree is that he was stealing wood and there was definitely someone with him who fled the scene. The body was definitely moved. Something similar happened in the Dyatlov case.

I have the opinions of two medical examiners, both heads of major city hospitals with regional morgues. They both say that the injuries of the Dyatlov group could have been caused by a fallen tree. This proves nothing since they were not found under a fallen tree, but even if they had been, this would have just added to the autopsy report that the injuries do not contradict the scene of the incident. This would still not be definitive. Medical examiners are very careful about what they say. The terminology usually is "it doesn’t contradict" or "cannot be excluded".
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:08:56 AM by Teddy »

May 17, 2021, 11:32:02 PM
Reply #122
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Teddy

Administrator
There is one line of inquiries that we didn't have time to pursue. According to our theory, following Ivdel medical personnel recollections (chapter 21), there were 6 bodies brought to the morgue at the beginning of February 1959. According to the procedures in place at the time the bodies were externally examined by Dr. Prudkov, cleaned up and prepared for burial pending identification. These bodies are not accounted for. No one knows who they were, they match the description of Dyatlov group members and there are no other accidents with hikers in the area at that time. Where did these bodies go? In our opinion - back to the pass. This brings a very specific post-mortem characteristic - the bodies being frozen and thawed twice, cleaned up in between, only six of them. I started looking into Repeated Freeze-thaw Cycles on cadaver symptoms.
From the original autopsy reports you can see who had traces of crusted blood or foam, who was clean or dirty, and the exchange of clothes could be explained with redressing for forensic examination, too.
The head of the Forensic Medical Department of the Kaneff hospital in Ruse, Stoyanov M.D., told me that if a foreigner dies they need to put him in the freezer until the relatives come for the body.
One time they got the body out but the flight of the relatives canceled and they had to refreeze the body. When they got it out the second time and prepared for transportation some liquid came out from his nostrils - grey and foamy. Sounds familiar?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 12:41:24 AM by Teddy »

May 18, 2021, 12:48:17 AM
Reply #123
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bertie


Extremely interesting material, Teddy, thanks.

Although off topic, in your comments on the previous page regarding WABs theory, I didnt realise he was working on a new idea - but he has written years ago, on this forum, a detailed scenario where the Rav4 were actually injured in a much deeper (different) ravine and then carried by the remaining able-bodied campers to their final resting place. At least that is what I have previously regarded as 'WABS theory'.
Best, Bertie

May 18, 2021, 01:17:07 AM
Reply #124
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Teddy

Administrator
I posted WAB's theory years ago, trying to swift through all the rambling. I didn't get it then either. Here is his theory, I give equal opportunity objectively. I don't judge before I understand. His theory I do not understand: https://dyatlovpass.com/ravine-borzenkov

Latest developments with Kuryakov's results from the place of the tragedy show the last four bodies found in May to be not where Borzenkov says they were. At least not what he said in this theory. https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=146.msg549#msg549

If WAB is summarizing our theory as "the falling tree and the transfer of the tent" in here https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=924.0 I want his theory summary within the same amount of words.

I respect WAB (Borzenkov) for what he knows and the effort he makes for the forum, to give us valuable information, to keep the facts in check. But his theory I do not understand, and so far I haven't heard his feedback on particulars from our book. I don't see how can he have an opinion on a theory he hasn't read. In a perfect world he can elaborate on his theory, I can do the same on ours.

What I do not understand in WAB's theory is why would the hikers leave the tent by cutting it from inside. Let's start form there. He is an experienced hiker, he knows the mindset in the mountain. What would make the hikers cut up their tent and go slowly down a slope they haven't seen before, not having outer or footwear. Concentrate on this part only please. No confusing maps, not unconfirmed trajectories of hiking to a crevice nowhere near their path only to jump one after another, as far as I understood on top of each other?? like suicidal lemmings.

When I published this page https://dyatlovpass.com/ravine-borzenkov Borzenkov (aka WAB) said that this photo is from the time when he was presenting the rocket theory. This is now Kuntsevich's theory. This means Borzenkov is prone to change theories, and I know for a fact that he is currently working on his "version of events" [sic]. Not sure if this means a brand spanking new theory or just his final revision of Donnie Eichar's book, but I am all ears to check it out when it's ready and available.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 02:17:20 AM by Teddy »

May 18, 2021, 02:27:50 AM
Reply #125
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bertie


I am ok with anyone changing theories, it's an occupational hazard with the piles of suspect and contradictory evidence in the case.
I also don't demand a summary in 10words from anyone 😃😃 coz that summary you quoted doesn't do justice to ur theory (obviously).

You have produced a marvellous theory, both well researched and quite plausible.
Which is enough. You have never previously knocked down anyone's theories (that is well quite done by the users anyway😃) -  it is part of your charm and most fitting for the host of a site that is established to be always in persuit of knowledge.
Best Bertie

May 18, 2021, 02:48:24 AM
Reply #126
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Teddy

Administrator
This is what I am trying to be, a good host for anyone that wants to and speak out. It is strange how this case brings the best and the worse in anyone, sometimes in the span of the same post :)

May 18, 2021, 02:53:12 AM
Reply #127
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bertie


It is strange how this case brings the best and the worse in anyone, sometimes in the span of the same post :)

👍😃
I'd imagine for those going very deep into this case that it is enough just to keep one's sanity, everything else is a bonus

May 18, 2021, 03:18:33 AM
Reply #128
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Teddy

Administrator
I'd imagine for those going very deep into this case that it is enough just to keep one's sanity...

That exit is way behind :))

May 18, 2021, 07:22:46 AM
Reply #129
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Mars


Thank you for your  explanation Teddy. By no means did I want my first post to turn out to be political.
I have just delved into your book and of course all the available information I have been able to read on this forum from members ’contributions. It just surprised me about my opinion, which I got when I read the book. For me, your book, when I read it, was the ultimate solution to a mysterious tragedy. Then I expected the so-called Dyatlov Pass experts to think so too.
And I expected people on this forum who have a tremendous amount of historical knowledge, know the time, and deal with it to give criticism. As for Professor WAB, who delves so thoroughly into every little thing that is published, it just surprises me that he hasn’t even read your book yet. I also became acquainted with his theory (infra sound) but I must say that given my modest knowledge I did not even understand what his conclusion and interpretation of events was. However, it would be right and appropriate for experts to say what they agree with and what they do not agree with, and of course to justify this.
By the way, I rated your book with the highest possible rating on Amazon.

May 18, 2021, 07:40:46 AM
Reply #130
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Teddy

Administrator
However, it would be right and appropriate for experts to say what they agree with and what they do not agree with, and of course to justify this.
This is what I expect as well. I am bewildered how the so called experts want to diminish other people's work. Not all of them though. This is how you can tell who really wants to learn the truth. If the case is unsolved one has to be open for new interpretation of the facts. BTW I highly respected researcher Alekseenkov who goes to the pass for the last 10 years and who Borzenkov, I am sure, can not brush away without a second thought reached out with unsolicited feedback about the book. He is a really deep into the case, well respected from the whole Russian circle of researchers.

"Read your e-book. Cool! So much information!
And the theory is on the level of a Newton's binomial theorem. Impressive!
- Alexander (Shura) Alekseenkov, researcher

"Приобрёл вашу электронную книгу. Круто! Столько материала обработано!
И версия из разряда бином Ньютона. Впечатляет!
— Александр (Шура) Алексеенков, исследователь



On this year annual conference in Yekaterinburg Alekseenkov made public the results of his measurements on the pass which directly confirm our theory
https://dyatlovpass.com/1079#new-magnetic

By the way, I rated your book with the highest possible rating on Amazon.
bow7
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 07:55:31 AM by Teddy »

May 18, 2021, 08:47:51 PM
Reply #131
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RidgeWatcher


Thank you Teddy for answering all the questions, it is important to those of us who read your book because the book is important.

I have one more question: Spoilers for non-book readers:

At the end of your book it sure seemed like a lot of people died who were involved with the searches and cover-ups. What percentage of those deaths do you surmise were the victims of the state? And did any stand out to you as odd or peculiar?

And thank you for correcting my hybrid poetry concerning Victor Hugo and Beckett I love Becket but I was trying to quote Victor Hugo, my tired mistake.

May 18, 2021, 11:34:02 PM
Reply #132
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bertie


I'd imagine for those going very deep into this case that it is enough just to keep one's sanity...

That exit is way behind :))
Oh well, sanity is over-rated anyway...

May 19, 2021, 12:43:06 AM
Reply #133
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Igor Pavlov

Expert
At the end of your book it sure seemed like a lot of people died who were involved with the searches and cover-ups. What percentage of those deaths do you surmise were the victims of the state? And did any stand out to you as odd or peculiar?
The number of deaths is normal for this place. People were constantly dying there from hunting accidents, from drunkenness, and so on.We have given this list so that the reader can make a conclusion for himself - whether they are related to the case or not. I personally, to be honest, do not know :). It is possible that some cases are related.

May 19, 2021, 01:22:03 AM
Reply #134
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Teddy

Administrator
I was trying to quote Victor Hugo, my tired mistake.

Hugo it is then (on forum's home page).

I want to repeat something form my post here with the photo.

when tree falls is like the Rapture – one is gone, the one lying next continues living. This is one disaster that can affect people clustered together very differently.

This has always bothered me - why some of the injuries were so grave and some just died from total exhaustion and hypothermia. If there is a crime it looked like the longer someone lived the worse he was beaten up. This is if you presume the epicenter to be the tent on the slope. If you reverse the epicenter to be the cedar tree, then it all makes much better sense. The injuries that are lethal happened first and everyone trying to get help died at some distance.

Till this moment the theories were divided to criminal and noncriminal. I think they should be divided depending to where the epicenter of the disaster is. Did something happened on the slope, what could it be, or was the accident in the forest, and what could it be. The fact Dubinina, Tibo and Zolotaryov couldn't be moved answers this question.

May 19, 2021, 05:44:15 AM
Reply #135
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Mars


Teddy thanks for the explanation and for the link you sent me.
I also listened to the interview “Discussions of the Dyatlov Crossing Incident with Special Guest Teddy Hadjiysk”.
For the past two months, I’ve really delved into everything available about the accident at the Dyatlov Pass. I have to say that I started the book without any prior knowledge. I liked it because it was written as scientific research without any sensationalism or desire to commercially impose on the reader. Then I got acquainted with the forum you run on your website. The forum is really interesting because there are people there who have something to say and of course people who have nothing to say.
As far as I'm concerned, the mystery of the accident is explained by your and Igor's theory. I am aware that this is just a theory that 100% will never be possible to prove. But so far, with all the evidence presented and the sincere effort that has been put into the work is the best approximation of the truth that gave rise to this terrible accident. As metaphor I can compare with Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity, which is unprovable in practice. But so far it is the most powerful theory, which, despite countless attempts, no one has been able to refute. And so it has been with your theory so far. A huge number of so-called professionals with their academic knowledge being recycled to infinity without any product have experienced a shock at your work. And I have noticed that they have reacted extremely insultingly and in some cases ignorantly, without, as far as I know, giving a single objective critique or proof that could negate your work. And I have to figure out that it’s just endless envy. Which is also understandable, because for years and years they revolved in an unproductive circle, sterile knowledge that yielded no results. And suddenly you and Igor appear without a huge ego just with a huge heart, without a desire for personal promotion or financial success and give a solution. So I’ll find that it’s time for everyone that until they have something better to show, to slowly admit that you taken biggest step for once with your research work, to the explanation of the tragic events on Dyatlov Pass. From my side, I can only say thank you and Igor for the effort, knowledge and real big heart research that led to the strongest theory for once. 

May 19, 2021, 05:43:34 PM
Reply #136
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Ziljoe


Mars,That's a really respectful and nicely written post. kewl1

May 20, 2021, 12:01:16 AM
Reply #137
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Teddy

Administrator
And suddenly you and Igor appear without a huge ego just with a huge heart, without a desire for personal promotion or financial success and give a solution.

Mars, thank you so much, this is how I feel, I am all in with my heart all right (throwing some ribs in the mixture), but believe me, although I haven't met Igor in person (it is on my bucket list), it is his brain that is in this book. The book is my idea. At some point of Igor helping me with the site he said he has a theory. I didn't believe him, but when he said what it is I was dumbfounded and relieved at the same time. At last, someone was making sense. Igor told me it took him 10 years to figure it out. The book was all my idea because I wanted a format to lead the reader through the mountain of facts that this theory is based on. This is not a momentary revelation, not an aha moment, it is a long process taking a decade to put the pieces together. Why is this so frustrating for other researchers, I don't know. Maybe because as you said they have all tried for a long time and suddenly someone is passing them in the fast lane. As if any of this matters, I hate what the obsession turns people into. When we turn the Dyatlov group into monuments, we want to climb on that same pedestal with them.

Yesterday we released the WHOIS database in both English and Russian, as well as a database with Russian Abbreviations I had to hunt down while translating anything from Russian e.g. case files, articles and Igor Pavlov's manuscript. I am sure these will come handy while navigating through Russian literature in general. The gallery PEOPLE contains both past and modern times individuals, you can tell by the photos, all names can be looked up in the WHOIS database. It goes without saying if you have additional information please send it to me. I created a separate board for the WHOIS discussion: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=936.0


We will continue working on the case. Having a theory helps with sanity. Although overrated I need the appearance or else they will tie my sleeves behind my back and won't be able to type. I have a lot of typing before me.

Mars, thank you again, you made my day.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 12:06:22 AM by Teddy »

May 20, 2021, 12:26:15 AM
Reply #138
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Mars


Thanks Ziljoe,
I wrote this because I was affected by the relationship, from the “experts” (I won’t name them because of the politenes) to the theory from Teddy and Igor.
With their huge egos, they allow themselves to criticize someone who has so far been the only one to take a significant step forward in solving the problem. Theyselves however, apart from the learned knowledge and the empty repetition of this knowledge, they have not been able to present anything meaningful so far. And that’s what hurts them. And because of that, the work of Teddy and Igor is ignored on many level.

May 20, 2021, 12:47:34 AM
Reply #139
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Mars


Thanks Teddy for the kind reply (I didn't expect)
I'm glad there are people like you in the world.
For it happens to everyone that once lost wanders in the dark and then even a small flame of a candle can show her/him the way to happiness. So people - let’s turn on the flame.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 12:59:14 AM by Mars »

May 20, 2021, 01:49:15 AM
Reply #140
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Igor Pavlov

Expert
Mars, thank you so much for your kind words. I must say that any project with the participation of several authors is quite complex. Each person has his own approach, his own vision etc. But in our case Teddy and I came to a compromise very quickly. Working on the book was a real pleasure. I am glad that many people have positively assessed the result of our work. I can't criticize those who didn't like the book. Anyone can have their own point of view on events.

May 20, 2021, 02:32:09 AM
Reply #141
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Teddy

Administrator
I have to disagree with Igor on one aspect - I didn't make any compromises on the account of difference in opinions. I honestly do not remember a single thing that I have disagreed with Igor. This may sound tacky but there is an explanation: we are experts in very different areas. Igor has the information, the resources, I am with the idea about a site, book, and visuals. Our areas hardly intercept, and when they do we tend to have the same taste and standards. Examples: Igor came up with the title, I loved it, I came up with the subtitle, Igor said he was thinking about the same one. Visuals - Igor has always corrected (a lot) only the factual information, all the drawing is mine. The whole world was against Igor's manuscript - every potential agent I showed examples of the book wanted it rewritten for a Hollywood movie. I said nope, we are publishing it as is. Because this is how Igor wrote it, this is how the mind  that solved the case works. And I liked it this way. This book is not about our feelings and personal involvement. As I always say: "We are not in this book." The making of this book, if it wasn't for the setbacks from KDP, Amazon, etc. and the brutally short time for publishing has been a pleasure. Communication with Igor is something I have never experienced in my life. I can't explain it. You have the chance to see it for yourself. No one has ever been so right on the spot on anything factual. His brain is amazing. But before the book, he had never spilled his guts on public forums. He has helped decipher documents and corrected information, hasn't withheld resources. But he is a very private person. He told me something like: What would be the purpose of this, they don't want to know. Now I see what he meant.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 02:39:19 AM by Teddy »

May 20, 2021, 02:38:11 AM
Reply #142
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Mars


Igor, I completely agree with you that everyone has the right to their own view of events. But if you can’t justify this view and professionally defend it, it’s just an empty opinion with no relevant weight. In fact, so far only you two have put forward a theory that answers every question with great probability.

May 20, 2021, 02:44:55 AM
Reply #143
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Teddy

Administrator
In fact, so far only you two have put forward a theory that answers every question with great probability.

These were the first words from Igor about his theory, he said and I quote: "I have a theory that explains all facts."
My first thought was: "Please don't ruin this..."
Me after:


May 20, 2021, 03:05:35 AM
Reply #144
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Mars


"What would be the purpose of this, they don't want to know?"

Teddy, because I can't, you personally tells Igor:

 Throughout history, many great people have wondered about the purpose of their work and may never have received recognition. But every great work enlivens its independent life and becomes an element that builds civilization.

May 20, 2021, 03:29:40 AM
Reply #145
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bertie


I am glad that many people have positively assessed the result of our work. I can't criticize those who didn't like the book. Anyone can have their own point of view on events.

Igor, a pleasure to hear from you on this forum and commendation for your work. clap1

May we ask, please, along this 10 year journey of formulating your theory at what point did you first consider the weird hypothesis that the bodies did a circular trip through the morgue and how long after that until you satisfied yourself that your radical theory 'ticked all the boxes'?
Second question, some people studying this matter get fixated on a particular inconsistency, in your case was there a key feature in the evidence which first turned your mind towards the possibility that the bodies were moved?

Thanks Bertie

May 20, 2021, 03:36:42 AM
Reply #146
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bertie


These were the first words from Igor about his theory, he said and I quote: "I have a theory that explains all facts."
kewl1

Teddy, great to see the earlier quote from Alekseenkov.
I had to look up Newton's binomial theorem... but it looks pretty solid ha grin1

Such a pity the official re-investigation has already run its course, or has it?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 03:45:25 AM by bertie »

May 20, 2021, 05:42:46 AM
Reply #147
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Igor Pavlov

Expert
Thank you, bertie

I was not the first to suggest that some of the bodies were being moved to the Ivdel morgue and back to the pass. This has been repeatedly discussed on Russian-language forums in the context of various conspiracy theories. The movement of bodies is not the basis for our theory. Our main arguments are the strange involvement in the search for organizations that should not have been involved in them in any way. These are geologists, employees of Ivdellag and military railway workers. They had enough to do on their own to distract them from the search. I assumed that the reason for the death of tourists lies in some joint activity of these three structures. The only such joint activity that came to my mind was blasting. But nothing was known about such works in the area of the pass. And the main confirmation of the theory I received when friends helped me to get acquainted with the materials of the geophysical report on possible work in the area of the pass in February 1959. That was the moment when the theory "ticked all the boxes". It happened in 2016. We cite the materials of this report in the book and on the website.

May 20, 2021, 07:22:01 AM
Reply #148
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EBE


I am not saying that the fallen tree is not possible. However, there is still no direct evidence to that. It could happen, but it is still a theory. A rather complicated theory..

However, Lyuda had 3 fracture lines on her chest, as if caused by 2 or 3 impacts, not just one. But I am not a pathologist..:)

I honestly think that the only new real evidence to this case may come from exhumation of all bodies. Is there any chance that it will be possible?

May 20, 2021, 07:47:37 AM
Reply #149
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Teddy

Administrator
Such a pity the official re-investigation has already run its course, or has it?
It has.

However, Lyuda had 3 fracture lines on her chest, as if caused by 2 or 3 impacts, not just one. But I am not a pathologist..:)
Not true, Kuryakov illustrated this with a ping pong: https://dyatlovpass.com/prosecutors-investigation#2

I am the living proof with 6 broken ribs in two fracture lines frоm a single blow in a car accident:
http://distal-humerus.com/resources/320/gallery/2012-07-24-X-Ray-chest.jpg

Read here the conclusion of the forensic expert Sergey Nikitin who handles Zolotaryov remains during the exhumation: "It was a single powerful blow"

This tendency to dig up graves without even knowing (reading) what the discoveries are is sickening. What for?

I honestly think that the only new real evidence to this case may come from exhumation of all bodies. Is there any chance that it will be possible?
This is horrible idea. Zolotaryov's exhumation confirmed every detail from the autopsy report, brought nothing but scandals, media circus and grief.
https://dyatlovpass.com/zolotaryov-exhumation
https://dyatlovpass.com/zolotaryov-exhumation-2
https://dyatlovpass.com/zolotaryov-dna
https://dyatlovpass.com/zolotaryov-exhumation-3
https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov
https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov-2
https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov-3
https://dyatlovpass.com/semyon-zolotaryov-4

Relatives have petitioned against digging up more graves.

the main confirmation of the theory I received when friends helped me to get acquainted with the materials of the geophysical report on possible work in the area of the pass in February 1959. That was the moment when the theory "ticked all the boxes". It happened in 2016. We cite the materials of this report in the book and on the website.
https://dyatlovpass.com/1079#magnetic

« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 11:13:42 PM by Teddy »