Theories Discussion > General Discussion
what mysteries are made of
thealexhiggins:
Thanks for the input.
It is perfectly plausible to me what U say about leaving the tent. However, they should have been able to follow their own foot prints back, shouldn't they? On the other hand, even so, they might very well have thought that the tent was already gone and buried in the snow and ice. So, why even try to go back? And in general, in darkness and extremely cold weather, all decisions are VERY difficult - so, we should not expect a very logical decisions at all. To me what U say is easily possible.
As for the death of the hikers with bad injuries, it is still too much of a mystery to me to even try creating any theory. Could suffocation or to be buried alive be noticed by the coroners?
--- Quote from: MDGross on August 11, 2021, 10:54:18 AM ---Thank you for such a thoughtful post. Why did they exit the tent in such a state of undress? How did three of them get crushing type injuries? I'm often tempted to look for THE answer to question one and THE answer to question two. But wonder if each of these events involved a combination of unfortunate circumstances. For example, maybe they were convinced that a snow slide was happening. They flee the tent, walk 400 meters, stop and quickly discuss what to do next. But in utter darkness they can't be sure how far they've walked.Plus, it's brutally cold. So, spend precious time going back up the slope uncertain they can locate the tent, or continue down the slope to the woods and trust their survival skills will keep them alive until first light. A snow slide (whether real or only perceived to be real), disorientation in the darkness, freezing cold, a hasty decision all combine to create a tragic outcome.
Once in the woods, four of the hikers decide to dig out a snow den. But removing snow causes the snow nearby to slide toward them, knocking them into the ravine. Their injuries aren't fatal, but snow falling on them exacerbates the injuries. They die not from hypothermia, but suffocate from their own carbon dioxide. In this example a snow slide combined with a fall into the ravine results in the hikers' deaths.
I'm not suggesting that this is what happened; I'm only presenting an example of an outcome caused by multiple conditions.
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Investigator:
--- Quote from: Manti on August 09, 2021, 07:20:43 AM ---No such thing as a frozen boot, but anyway, if you have a fire, you can melt the ice on the boot (but also you can just scrape it off anyway), and then dry the boot by the fire.
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From the book, "No Shortcuts to the Top:"
"The old leather boots that climbers favored for more than a century are vastly inferior to plastic, because leather absorbs moisture, which then freezes. It’s a natural recipe for frostbite. Lachenal and Herzog lost their toes to frostbite on Annapurna in 1950 because they were wearing leather boots. (It’s not as though they had any choice, since plastic boots would not get invented for another thirty years)..."
From the book "Alive" (1973 Andes plane crash):
"The night was too cold and the ground too hard for the three to sleep well, and the first light of the morning found them all awake. It was still cold and they remained in the sleeping bag, waiting for the sun to appear over the mountains and thaw out their boots, which had frozen solid on the rock where they had left them."
And if their boots were waterlogged, as would seem much more likely than not, there would be a reason not to take them as you try to get down a moutainside you don't know anything about:
From the "K2" book by Curran.
"[Kurt owned] an ancient pair of leather doubles [boots]. They were completely waterlogged and weighed a ton."
I'll also mention that the two young guys discussed in "Alive," who climbed a mountain to get help for the rest, slept on a mountain with no tent or fire, and survived without proper clothing (actually three survived the night but one went back to the group). This was more difficult than what the Dyatlov group decided to do the night of the incident, and in a place like Russia, there were likely similar stories of people surviving such difficult situations that at least one member of the group must have known. The two guys in "Alive" created a windbreak with rocks, whereas the Dyatlov group thought a fire was a better idea, though still, if my notion is correct, they could have survived if Zina didn't get upset or angry and decide to go back to the tent, and of course if the "Ravine 4" didn't go off course while trying to return to the "den."
CR3012:
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on August 04, 2021, 04:21:07 PM ---A good post and a good summary thealexhiggins.
Igor B's did a lot to suggest a wolverine . Still the strongest theory for me.
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Yes a WWII decorated veteran whose only job was to kill day after day not so long ago will panic and follow the youth down the slope for 2 miles from wolverine.
Only a bear would've caused such a retreat (still super doubtful), but they were not killed by a bear on the way back to the tent.
Anyway, MoD has a supercomputer, if you feed it all the data you have, objectives, location, amount of snow, temperature, amount of people, landscape, threats, settlements, distances, weapons they have, food availability, shoes, clothes, and the outcome it will give an answer, well it gave an answer that storming Mannerheim lines in Finland was impossible with the time of the year, weather and landscape conditions.
Ziljoe:
--- Quote from: CR3012 on August 12, 2021, 03:31:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on August 04, 2021, 04:21:07 PM ---A good post and a good summary thealexhiggins.
Igor B's did a lot to suggest a wolverine . Still the strongest theory for me.
--- End quote ---
Yes a WWII decorated veteran whose only job was to kill day after day not so long ago will panic and follow the youth down the slope for 2 miles from wolverine.
Only a bear would've caused such a retreat (still super doubtful), but they were not killed by a bear on the way back to the tent.
Anyway, MoD has a supercomputer, if you feed it all the data you have, objectives, location, amount of snow, temperature, amount of people, landscape, threats, settlements, distances, weapons they have, food availability, shoes, clothes, and the outcome it will give an answer, well it gave an answer that storming Mannerheim lines in Finland was impossible with the time of the year, weather and landscape conditions.
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It's not the size or physical strength of the wolverine that is being debated, it's not the possible fight with the beast that drove them out or away from the tent. That is not the debate . It does not matter if it was as cuddly as a rabbit , kitten or big as a bear. It is the fact that the wolverine has a chemical spray like tear gas. Tear gas is worse than pepper spray.
The wolverine is known to follow prey or scavenge from other predators. It will approach wolves and steal their food . It is not particularly scared of humans .
The theory is that the wolverine entered the tent . Having smelled the food and/or by following the trail of the hikers. The wolverine ,on entering the tent , means the hikers are stuck in the tent with only one exit. The wolverine is now blocking the exit. They also had sewn a sheet at the doorway, probably to stop wind and snow for insulation ,so not easy for the wolverine to run back out. It may have just wanted warmth and shelter, they may not have even been that afraid of the beast and tried feeding it some pork loin. They might have thought to try and kill it for fresh meat, Who knows?
However, if the wolverine felt trapped, got scared , pots being thrown at it etc and it then sprayed its chemical weapons, (which are said to be worse than a skunk)
Then that's the moment , spark , ignition of the exit of the tent. There is only the urgency to get out. The toxic smell is known to cause temporary blindness, coughing , breathing difficulties,choking and the smell is said to be unbearable.
The urgency or instinct for the hikers is to get away from the toxic smell , fast. Not undo buttons on the tent door or worry about the tent it's self but cut it open and get out of the concentrated toxic air.
That's the rough idea to the wolverine theory and it is a very plausible explanation to the exit of the tent.
But I shall also recommend Teddy's book. Some new nuggets of gold in it.
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