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Author Topic: Slobodin's Injuries  (Read 15279 times)

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February 05, 2023, 12:17:30 PM
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MDGross


The autopsy report points out these injuries to Slobodin:
• on left side of skull - fracture of the frontal bone
• hemorrhages in the temporalis muscles on both sides of the skull
• right eye bruise on upper eyelid with hemorrhage into underlying tissue
• bruises on the knuckles of both hands.

At first glance, these are injuries from a fight. He was knocked down and his head struck a rock causing a fracture. Or maybe a punch caused his head to strike a tree.
The temporalis muscles are just above the jaw, these muscles open and close your jaw. So being struck in both jaws could cause hemorrhaging.
He was also struck above the right eye, which caused a bruise and hemorrhaging.
The knuckles on every finger (except the thumb) were bruised on both hands. So Slobodin punched something.

In terms of just plain toughness, Rustem was the alpha male of the group. He was exceptionally fit (he had been a long-distance runner) and probably the most accomplished skier. And very courageous - in 1958 he and his father hiked through a mountainous area, where people of Russian descent would most likely be killed if the locals found them. IF the Dyatlov group was attacked by outsiders, Rustem would have been the first one to try and protect them.
 
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February 05, 2023, 01:29:28 PM
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GlennM


Beaten about the head and face in a fist fight. Those injuries certainly are not consistent with a slab slip. They might suggest internal strife in the group or attack from without. Rustem and others were facing the tent when they fell. If it was a fight within the group, it would be about loyalty, sexual tension, hallucination or unnecessary risk. From without it was from aggressors or a fallen object.

If a slab slide did happen and everyone retreated to the woods, could a slip and fall on exposed rock cause the cause instead?
 

February 05, 2023, 02:33:00 PM
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Manti


I think the knuckles of the fingers can become bruised due to crawling on hardened snow on all fours, when one's feet become too frostbitten to be able to stand...

As for the head injuries, I've always thought the frontal bone fracture and temporalis muscle injuries could be from the same cause, but maybe this is not correct. Doesn't this muscle extend over the sides of the frontal bone?


 

February 05, 2023, 02:38:18 PM
Reply #3
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MDGross


Yes, hitting his head against a rock could explain the skull fracture. But eight bruised knuckles could only result from striking something. Not necessarily a person, maybe he was out of his head and punched a tree. in considering Rustem's personality and character, I just think that in the face of a threat from outsiders, he would not try to slip off in the dark. He would stand and fight.
 

February 05, 2023, 02:50:24 PM
Reply #4
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GlennM


I agree that Rustem would not quail before a threat.I think it is easy to attribute his hurts to an altercation, but when he fell in death, was he running to or from a battle?
 

February 05, 2023, 03:00:16 PM
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eurocentric


There was a thread by a man who claimed his late father confessed shortly before death to flying a hunting group out there at night and they ended up hunting the hikers after Rustem floored a hunter for suggesting the girls join the hunters inside their tent. The hikers went on to fall like flies in the cold, while the hunters survived, and had time to sweep 1079 for tracks and shell casings. An artifact, a hikers knife, had been kept in a box under the father's bed for decades. He couldn't go public as his mother was still alive, but invited applications for the film rights to an e-mail address.

I have to confess I have a hard time imagining Rustem as a he-man, a hang loose long distance runner, physically resilient, yes. It can only be based on a subjective opinion, but I believe I've studied the photo's more than most and from his kinesics throughout his life and on this hike he just doesn't look the type to be aggressive. The only reference there seems to be suggesting he 'knew how to handle himself' is the story of him and his father on a hike together in what is described as though it was bandit country.

Because I believe the hikers may have been poisoned and suffered seizures, I could suggest that Rustem collapsed face down into the snow, and suffered an earlier seizure which caused a head injury. Falling onto your muzzle, even in snow, without breaking your fall could cause facial bruising. Do it onto a hard floor and it would break your nose. Convulsing on the ground, repeatedly grinding your face into the snow, could cause all manner of scratches. Some hikers had them to their upper eyelids, and Igor's left underarm was covered in scratches.

As an example, the British popstar Professor Green has recently had another epileptic fit and fell face forward alone at home blacking his eye and grinding grazes into his cheek from several minutes of convulsions. It's taken him a while to recover. A previous fit saw him fracture 3 vertebrae in his neck.
My DPI approach - logic, probability and reason.
 

February 05, 2023, 05:39:02 PM
Reply #6
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GlennM


Eurocentric, your latest post is interesting. Those hunters who were rutting did a good job of policing their brass, since none has been found. I suppose a hunter must have his trophy, er knife, but I'd think the other hunters, deep in their musk, would object. All in all, it would be great fodder for a movie; guns,girls the great outdoors and murder most foul!

The story needs some serious vetting up in here!
 

February 05, 2023, 06:00:05 PM
Reply #7
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tenne


The autopsy report points out these injuries to Slobodin:
• on left side of skull - fracture of the frontal bone
• hemorrhages in the temporalis muscles on both sides of the skull
• right eye bruise on upper eyelid with hemorrhage into underlying tissue
• bruises on the knuckles of both hands.


I took a look at the injuries sustained by the other hikers and there is a bit of over lap for those injuries. I wasn't sure the best way for me to put it into a readable format so the injury is followed by the initials of the hiker and the number corresponding to the autopsy diagram. At times the wording was different but pointing to the exact same spot so I grouped it (rightly or wrongly) where I thought it could be

back of the right hand is swollen, fingers are brownish-purpleYK07
metacarpophalangeal joints on the right hand had brown red bruises. ID13
brown-red abrasion on the back of both hands in the area of metacarpal phalangeal and inter-phalangeal jointsZK07
bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands (bruised knuckles)RS07
maybe in this group
detachment of the 2 cm epidermis on the back of his left handYK11
left hand is brown-purple color with brownish-red bruisesID14

__________________________________________________________-
Diffuse bleeding in the right temporal and occipital region due to damage to temporalis muscleYK02
dark red abrasion on the right frontal eminenceZK01
multiple fractures to the temporal bone, with extensions to the frontal and sphenoid bones, the close up of the fractures to the skull is shown on the pictureNTB01 (R SIDE)
hemorrhages in the temporalis musclesRS01 9(R &L)
fracture of the frontal bone 6x0.1 cm located 1.5 cm from the sagittal suture (showing on separate skull trauma diagram without numbers)RS12 (L SIDE)
damaged tissues around left temporal bone, size 4x4 cmLD02
bruise around left temporal boneYK03
_________________________________________________________________________________________
minor abrasions on the upper eyelidsID02
dark red abrasion on the upper eyelidsZK03
brownish red bruise on the upper eyelid of the right eye with hemorrhage into the underlying tissuesRS04
__________________________________________________________________________________



 
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February 05, 2023, 07:48:02 PM
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ilahiyol


Slobodin was walking towards the tent with Igor and Zina. The unknown Power has captured Igor. In this situation, Slobodin and Zina started walking fast. They were running now. In fact, Slobodin was running. Slobodin might even have run farther. Because he was a runner. But she didn't want to leave Zina behind. After all, she was a woman. It's left behind. The unknown Force dealt him a blow from behind on his left temple. He fell to the ground very fast and stayed there. The bruises on his hands were probably caused by him covering himself with his hands to protect his head and torso as he fell to the ground. Because he had fallen too fast, and he defended himself with his hands. This caused the bruise. Then he wanted to get up, but he couldn't. Yes, she was the bravest in the group with Igor and Zina. They were brave and hardworking. But they also kill before they reach the tent! May Allah forgive them and put them in Paradise. Amine
 

February 05, 2023, 07:50:38 PM
Reply #9
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ilahiyol


And the proof that Rustam was running is the ice where he died. So slobodin was running and sweating. And when he died, the ground below was frozen with sweat.
 

February 05, 2023, 09:06:46 PM
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GlennM


On another thread I opined that Rustem ( and others) were found heading  away from the forest on a path parallel to the cache. The were aligned in the direction of the tent. Rustem was alive when he fell was evidenced by ice formation. This implies that there was a purpose to their travel. It implies they were trying to get to the tent. It means, by definition, the tent was on 1079 all along. It implies the tent both had something worth getting and that getting to it was a possibility. Common sense dictates that the trio going back to the tent would not be able to outrun a determined attacker. Even making a defensive stand can be ruled out in favor of covering distance. It appears that the survivors did not stop, strip or otherwise attend to their fallen comrade. Rather, it was a struggle to the end to regain the tent and its resources.

Therefore, the cause of Rustem's injuries for me is secondary to understanding the unknown compelling force. Occams razor applied to this situation leads me to conclude a bad windstorm drove the hikers downhill and the Russian winter soared noone.

 

February 07, 2023, 12:07:09 PM
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anna_pycckux


[quote author=GlennM link=topic=1378.msg22010#msg22010
Therefore, the cause of Rustem's injuries for me is secondary to understanding the unknown compelling force. Occams razor applied to this situation leads me to conclude a bad windstorm drove the hikers downhill and the Russian winter soared noone.
[/quote]
Достаточно посмотреть на посмертные фото Рустема - как становится ясно, что он погиб в драке. Драке с ликвидаторами.

It is enough to look at the posthumous photos of Rustem - as it becomes clear that he died in a fight. A fight with the liquidators.
.
 

February 07, 2023, 12:29:04 PM
Reply #12
Online

Ziljoe


[quote author=GlennM link=topic=1378.msg22010#msg22010
Therefore, the cause of Rustem's injuries for me is secondary to understanding the unknown compelling force. Occams razor applied to this situation leads me to conclude a bad windstorm drove the hikers downhill and the Russian winter soared noone.
Достаточно посмотреть на посмертные фото Рустема - как становится ясно, что он погиб в драке. Драке с ликвидаторами.

It is enough to look at the posthumous photos of Rustem - as it becomes clear that he died in a fight. A fight with the liquidators.
.

[/quote]

What do these photos show? What about the others? Where are the signs of a fight?
 

February 07, 2023, 01:31:04 PM
Reply #13
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eurocentric


[quote author=GlennM link=topic=1378.msg22010#msg22010
Therefore, the cause of Rustem's injuries for me is secondary to understanding the unknown compelling force. Occams razor applied to this situation leads me to conclude a bad windstorm drove the hikers downhill and the Russian winter soared noone.
Достаточно посмотреть на посмертные фото Рустема - как становится ясно, что он погиб в драке. Драке с ликвидаторами.

It is enough to look at the posthumous photos of Rustem - as it becomes clear that he died in a fight. A fight with the liquidators.

[/quote]

You are using photo's of Rustem before he thawed out, where his frozen face looks very different, and it might look as if he had severe swelling from being repeatedly beaten. When he had thawed out he looked very different.

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Rustem-Slobodin-post-mortem-15.jpg

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Rustem-Slobodin-post-mortem-16.jpg
My DPI approach - logic, probability and reason.
 

February 07, 2023, 01:34:08 PM
Reply #14
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anna_pycckux


What do these photos show? What about the others? Where are the signs of a fight?
О, да! Никаких следов драки нет.. Рустем скончался тихо и мирно, просто замерз от плохой погоды.
Oh, yes! There are no signs of a fight.. Rustem died quietly and peacefully, just froze from bad weather.
 

February 07, 2023, 01:39:52 PM
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anna_pycckux


You are using photo's of Rustem before he thawed out, where his frozen face looks very different, and it might look as if he had severe swelling from being repeatedly beaten. When he had thawed out he looked very different.
Думаю, что неразмороженные фото с явными признаками драки, синяками под глазами, гематомами лица, сжатыми кулаками, выраженной ненавистью в лице - есть подлинные, первичные фото без фотошопа.

I think that unfrozen photos with obvious signs of a fight, bruises under the eyes, facial bruises, clenched fists, expressed hatred in the face - there are genuine, primary photos without Photoshop.
 
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February 07, 2023, 01:46:20 PM
Reply #16
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Ziljoe


You are using photo's of Rustem before he thawed out, where his frozen face looks very different, and it might look as if he had severe swelling from being repeatedly beaten. When he had thawed out he looked very different.
Думаю, что неразмороженные фото с явными признаками драки, синяками под глазами, гематомами лица, сжатыми кулаками, выраженной ненавистью в лице - есть подлинные, первичные фото без фотошопа.

I think that unfrozen photos with obvious signs of a fight, bruises under the eyes, facial bruises, clenched fists, expressed hatred in the face - there are genuine, primary photos without Photoshop.

Many that died by freezing have clenched fists. Where's the expressed hatred in the face?  Unfrozen shows lots of things. My frozen chicken in my freezer  looks different when it's thawed ????
 
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February 07, 2023, 02:37:04 PM
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anna_pycckux


Many that died by freezing have clenched fists. Where's the expressed hatred in the face?  Unfrozen shows lots of things. My frozen chicken in my freezer  looks different when it's thawed ????
Я предполагаю, что фото размороженного  Рустема не совпадают с изначальной фото. Где разбитый нос?? Где отек лица?? Где гематома на пол лица??

I assume that the photos of the defrosted Rustem do not match the original photo. Where's the broken nose?? Where is the swelling of the face?? Where is the hematoma on the floor of the face??
 

February 07, 2023, 03:03:11 PM
Reply #18
Online

Ziljoe


Many that died by freezing have clenched fists. Where's the expressed hatred in the face?  Unfrozen shows lots of things. My frozen chicken in my freezer  looks different when it's thawed ????
Я предполагаю, что фото размороженного  Рустема не совпадают с изначальной фото. Где разбитый нос?? Где отек лица?? Где гематома на пол лица??

I assume that the photos of the defrosted Rustem do not match the original photo. Where's the broken nose?? Where is the swelling of the face?? Where is the hematoma on the floor of the face??



Why do the photos of the defrosted Rustem Rustem not match original photo.

You have written a book and presented the photos of Rustem as evidence of fighting. I will ask you to be thorough in evidence based practice,.that is to give ten examples of  bodies frozen by hypothermia and , or violence suffered by the hands of other people. ( Ten is a small and yet still not conclusive but for the exercise, ten will do)  that show conclusively that Rustem suffered fighting injuries from the photos that you submit. I want all variables, pathologist reports and evidence.

As you ask or state?

Where's the broken nose?? Where is the swelling of the face?? Where is the hematoma on the floor of the face??



I ask you , Where's the broken nose?? Where is the swelling of the face?? Where is the hematoma on the floor of the face??

Please expand with your evidence regarding the photo.
 
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February 07, 2023, 03:19:38 PM
Reply #19
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Ziljoe



I have posted this link before below and it has graphic images that some members may find upsetting. Warning., Containes images of dead bodies that some viewers may find distressing .



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6474461/

There is also a good explanation of the complication of death by hypothermia, including, marks to the skin , paradoxical undressing, tunneling etc etc.
 
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February 07, 2023, 03:34:59 PM
Reply #20
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eurocentric


You are using photo's of Rustem before he thawed out, where his frozen face looks very different, and it might look as if he had severe swelling from being repeatedly beaten. When he had thawed out he looked very different.
Думаю, что неразмороженные фото с явными признаками драки, синяками под глазами, гематомами лица, сжатыми кулаками, выраженной ненавистью в лице - есть подлинные, первичные фото без фотошопа.

I think that unfrozen photos with obvious signs of a fight, bruises under the eyes, facial bruises, clenched fists, expressed hatred in the face - there are genuine, primary photos without Photoshop.

Many that died by freezing have clenched fists. Where's the expressed hatred in the face?  Unfrozen shows lots of things. My frozen chicken in my freezer  looks different when it's thawed ????

Stop buying them from Tesco, all of theirs has been in a fight.
My DPI approach - logic, probability and reason.
 
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February 07, 2023, 04:36:53 PM
Reply #21
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eurocentric


Many that died by freezing have clenched fists. Where's the expressed hatred in the face?  Unfrozen shows lots of things. My frozen chicken in my freezer  looks different when it's thawed ????
Я предполагаю, что фото размороженного  Рустема не совпадают с изначальной фото. Где разбитый нос?? Где отек лица?? Где гематома на пол лица??

I assume that the photos of the defrosted Rustem do not match the original photo. Where's the broken nose?? Where is the swelling of the face?? Where is the hematoma on the floor of the face??

All I can see in the defrosted photo is a mildly bloodied nose, a cut to his left cheekbone and what is either blood or dirt to his right cheek. The patholgist will find and list more detail, but photographically there isn't much to suggest he had been beaten up, and at no point did he ever suggest Rustem's nose was broken.

In fact quite the opposite: "The bridge of the nose is straight." Sheet 97, line 9.

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-95-103?lid=1

Mother Nature, collapse, and the agonal stages of death can all acount for that.

My DPI approach - logic, probability and reason.
 
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February 07, 2023, 08:06:02 PM
Reply #22
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GlennM


Rustem was warm when he fell the last time. He was oriented to the tent, not the forest,nor the cache. His body therefore was not planted and the tent was on 1079 , just where it was found. His injuries are not going to reveal why he left the tent. His injuries hint at what he and others suffered once they left the tent. It is of secondary importance. He and others wanted to get to the tent because the previous threat was gone. What was it? Stormy weather.
.
 

February 08, 2023, 01:44:36 AM
Reply #23
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Manti




Everyone is warm when they fall for the last time:



 

February 08, 2023, 03:34:49 AM
Reply #24
Online

Ziljoe


You are using photo's of Rustem before he thawed out, where his frozen face looks very different, and it might look as if he had severe swelling from being repeatedly beaten. When he had thawed out he looked very different.
Думаю, что неразмороженные фото с явными признаками драки, синяками под глазами, гематомами лица, сжатыми кулаками, выраженной ненавистью в лице - есть подлинные, первичные фото без фотошопа.

I think that unfrozen photos with obvious signs of a fight, bruises under the eyes, facial bruises, clenched fists, expressed hatred in the face - there are genuine, primary photos without Photoshop.

Many that died by freezing have clenched fists. Where's the expressed hatred in the face?  Unfrozen shows lots of things. My frozen chicken in my freezer  looks different when it's thawed ????

Stop buying them from Tesco, all of theirs has been in a fight.

True story  lol4
 
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February 08, 2023, 07:11:34 AM
Reply #25
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GlennM


So funny, I blew a milk bubble out of my nose!
 

February 08, 2023, 02:13:34 PM
Reply #26
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Ehtnisba


[quote author=GlennM link=topic=1378.msg22010#msg22010
Therefore, the cause of Rustem's injuries for me is secondary to understanding the unknown compelling force. Occams razor applied to this situation leads me to conclude a bad windstorm drove the hikers downhill and the Russian winter soared noone.
Достаточно посмотреть на посмертные фото Рустема - как становится ясно, что он погиб в драке. Драке с ликвидаторами.

It is enough to look at the posthumous photos of Rustem - as it becomes clear that he died in a fight. A fight with the liquidators.
.

[/quote]

How quick you die to remain with fist ? I always thought that when you are knocked out or die the muscles first relax and maintaining hand in fist looks so odd here. Like he has frozen in a frame of a second .
Homo homini lupus est!
 

February 08, 2023, 02:26:25 PM
Reply #27
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eurocentric


Igor Dyatlov also died with his fists clenched, a pugilistic pose which can happen during the agonal stages of death, and also due to tetany or strychnine poisoning where the back will arch, and we have a much better look at his metacarpals on the slab than Rustem's and none of the skin is broken.

My DPI approach - logic, probability and reason.
 

February 08, 2023, 03:38:08 PM
Reply #28
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GlennM


The injuries are of secondary importance. Of primary importance was the direction which he and others lay. Of primary importance is the layer of melt ice beneath him. These primary pieces of information demonstrate he was alive when he fell the last time. He could have walked toward the forest or toward the cache, but he walked toward the tent. This was his final conscious act.The tent was therefore on 1079 at elevation 880.
 

February 12, 2023, 11:47:17 PM
Reply #29
Online

Ziljoe


This is a better explanation than I can do. I have translated this for ease. From forensic examination.


With a long stay of the corpse in conditions of low temperature (below 0 ° C), tissue freezing occurs. It is superficial and complete. Freezing of brain tissues in some cases leads to an increase in brain volume with subsequent cracking of the skull bones.and seam separation. When cracking the bones of the skull, post-mortem ruptures can occur, the skin in the area of ​​​​which is saturated with hemolyzed blood, which can be mistaken for intravital traumatic brain injury. Divergence of the sutures of the skull and even fractures of the bones of the cranial vault due to glaciation of the substance of the brain occur in those cases when the organs and tissues of the neck first freeze through (for example, there is a headdress on the head of the deceased, and the neck remains unprotected from the effects of cold). In other cases, the “wedging” of the freezing brain into the large occipital foramen occurs (if there is no headdress, and the neck is wrapped in a scarf), while the divergence of the seams is not observed.