Victims and Case Files > Witness Testimonies
Interview with Nurse Pelageya Ivanovna
SimplyMadness:
''You know, she can be mistaken, her memory is not the same'.
To me that single quote from her husband tells me everything I need to know. He knows her better than anybody ever and even he is admitting her memory isn't to be fully trusted.
I am currently reading a memoir of a German soldier during the Second World War and in his recollections he recalls Soviet soldiers charging his position with "Kalashnikovs". The problem is of course that the Avtomat Kalashnikova Model 1947 was not even invented and put into production until at least two years after the war and he was describing an event in 1942 which is 5 years before he could have ever possibly come into contact with the weapon. EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY IS A TON OF BULLSHIT. Eyewitness testimony about specific details a half century after an event can in my opinion, be almost entirely dismissed out of hand especially when it conflicts with everything else we know about an event.
I can barely recall the specific details of any given interaction last week and I'm 24 years old, I cant imagine trying to recall even a particularly memorable event that happened to me 60 years from now.
mk:
--- Quote from: SimplyMadness on January 08, 2021, 04:17:51 PM ---''You know, she can be mistaken, her memory is not the same'.
To me that single quote from her husband tells me everything I need to know. He knows her better than anybody ever and even he is admitting her memory isn't to be fully trusted.
I am currently reading a memoir of a German soldier during the Second World War and in his recollections he recalls Soviet soldiers charging his position with "Kalashnikovs". The problem is of course that the Avtomat Kalashnikova Model 1947 was not even invented and put into production until at least two years after the war and he was describing an event in 1942 which is 5 ye
ars before he could have ever possibly come into contact with the weapon. EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY IS A TON OF BULLSHIT. Eyewitness testimony about specific details a half century after an event can in my opinion, be almost entirely dismissed out of hand especially when it conflicts with everything else we know about an event.
I can barely recall the specific details of any given interaction last week and I'm 24 years old, I cant imagine trying to recall even a particularly memorable event that happened to me 60 years from now.
--- End quote ---
It seems clear from the interview that Nurse Pelegeya has some kind of memory loss related to aging. Her husband is very eager to protect her as well as to enter into the investigation himself.
Nurse Pelegeya's account of the bodies is at odds with other stories and accounts we have; the natural response is to dismiss what seems impossible to reconcile. It is advisable, however, to hold all ideas loosely. Both the account by Nurse Pelegeya as well the accounts from others.
The details and effects of dementia and age-related memory loss are not cut-and-dried. At 24, it is especially difficult to imagine the twists and turns of memory that embraces a lifetime.
https://www.silverado.com/dementia-alzheimers/why-do-people-with-alzheimers-remember-old-memories/ Alzheimer’s affects recent memories first, debilitating retention of new information. Memories of childhood or from long ago are well encoded since the person has had longer to process and remember specific events. In contrast, when Alzheimer’s symptoms start to show, think of “Last in, first out.” It can be difficult for a person with dementia to remember something from 20 minutes ago.
More technically speaking, new experiences or memories register in the part of the brain called the hippocampus, which sends the memory to the brain’s “storage bank.” When Alzheimer’s develops, the hippocampus is one of the first areas to be affected. Because that area of the brain can’t remember a new memory or person, the hippocampus can’t assist in “retrieving” the memory from the storage bank. These new memories also don’t have as much emotional attachment to them, as other memories stored in a different area of the brain, which suggests why it’s so difficult to retain a new memory.
If you search, you will find hundreds of sites and pages indicating that it is common for a person with dementia to recall accurately events from long ago. This is not to say, of course, that it's impossible that Nurse Pelegeya is mistaken--only that it's possible she isn't.
As far as the anachronistic Kalashnikov from the memoirs you're reading-- It may have been that "Soviet soldiers charged our position with Kalashnikovs" sounds so much cooler than "Soviet soldiers charged our position with bolt-action rifles," or even "Soviet soldiers charged our position with submachine guns." Embellishment; poetic license; exaggeration for effect; etc., etc. Even if the author wrote it correctly, the editor of the book may have substituted the word because s/he thought it sounded more authentic, not realizing that it was inaccurate. Of course, it may have been that the author only remembered his impression of the weapons the Soviets carried, and he associates Kalashnikovs with that impression; in which case it was the duty of the editor/s to identify the mistake and question it.
From the interview, it does seem to me that Nurse Pelegeya is remembering something true. Because of the discrepancies, I would be inclined to believe that she is remembering some other young hikers who died of hypothermia under similar circumstances and is getting the two events confused--except that I know of no other record of that kind of thing happening in that location within 5 or 10 years of DPI.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Star man on December 29, 2020, 05:09:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: mk on December 28, 2020, 09:14:10 PM ---
--- Quote ---But you are turning an Autopsy Report into a potential Conspiracy Theory ! ? A theory with absolutely no Evidence.
--- End quote ---
I suppose you could put it that way if you want to. Except that I feel like some of the things you dismiss offhand might actually be considered Evidence.
Do you never engage in “what if” in order to sort through ideas? It’s like trying on clothes to see whether they fit and go together into a good outfit. Just because you put it on in your bedroom doesn’t mean you think it looks great and will wear it to work tomorrow.
Star Man proposed an idea and acknowledged that it might be wrong. I basically said, “ok, pretend for a minute that that’s right. What would that mean for other information we have?” And then I made speculative comments based on other things I’d read.
Does this bother you?
--- End quote ---
I agree with your analogy mk. Sorting through ideas and presenting them to a group is one way of testing them. A person could speculate different ideas and never present them, until they believe they have the solution. But, that is not the quickest way to solving any problem. Progress is often made through trial and error, and bouncing ideas between people. But any idea has to be backed up by evidence in the end, or otherwise it is just an unsubstantiated hypothesis.
Also, if nobody presented their ideas and thoughts (right or wrong) there would not be much of a forum here to discuss the dpi.
On conspiracies- Conspiracy theories can be very damaging imo. I don't like them, or the term. Most of them are just misinformation and fake news.
Regards
Star man
--- End quote ---
Thats correct. The Forum is for discussing things. And if someone makes claims regarding a solution to this Dyatlov Mystery then they need to back up those claims with Evidence. Otherwise its just speculation, as we have seen so often.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: SimplyMadness on January 08, 2021, 04:17:51 PM ---''You know, she can be mistaken, her memory is not the same'.
To me that single quote from her husband tells me everything I need to know. He knows her better than anybody ever and even he is admitting her memory isn't to be fully trusted.
I am currently reading a memoir of a German soldier during the Second World War and in his recollections he recalls Soviet soldiers charging his position with "Kalashnikovs". The problem is of course that the Avtomat Kalashnikova Model 1947 was not even invented and put into production until at least two years after the war and he was describing an event in 1942 which is 5 years before he could have ever possibly come into contact with the weapon. EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY IS A TON OF BULLSHIT. Eyewitness testimony about specific details a half century after an event can in my opinion, be almost entirely dismissed out of hand especially when it conflicts with everything else we know about an event.
I can barely recall the specific details of any given interaction last week and I'm 24 years old, I cant imagine trying to recall even a particularly memorable event that happened to me 60 years from now.
--- End quote ---
Well put, sort of. In a Court of Law whilst eyewitness statements are important its only a part of the process. A case cannot be Judged properly on the basis of an eyewitness alone. Otherwise just think of the number of false claims people would be making. And eyewitness statements half a Century after the Event have to be taken very carefully and maybe with a good pinch of salt.
mk:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on January 09, 2021, 12:55:52 PM ---Well put, sort of.
--- End quote ---
Actually, it wasn't well put at all. But we'll let that pass.
--- Quote --- In a Court of Law whilst eyewitness statements are important its only a part of the process. A case cannot be Judged properly on the basis of an eyewitness alone. Otherwise just think of the number of false claims people would be making. And eyewitness statements half a Century after the Event have to be taken very carefully and maybe with a good pinch of salt.
--- End quote ---
I don't think anyone is trying to build a new case--or judge an old one--solely on the basis of one old lady's testimony. We are trying to fit one old lady's testimony into its proper place as a piece of the puzzle. Some of us believe it should be carefully considered in its entirety before flinging it aside, and this is a thread for that purpose.
Others seem to think that her age and the fact that her husband brushes aside her words are indication enough that she is misremembering.
That doesn't happen to be enough for me, but I don't mind that others think it is. I can certainly see their point.
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