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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: The Bodies Stories  (Read 4175 times)

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April 13, 2021, 09:01:08 AM
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Dona


 I note her leg bruise is very similar in size and shape to Nicks arm bruise



« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 01:35:15 PM by Dona »
 

April 13, 2021, 09:02:55 AM
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Dona


Seems a rather relaxed position.. They were all lying down when injured.. and they would not have been lying down  in the snow prior to injuries.. They had to have still been in the tent.



« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 01:44:46 PM by Dona »
 

April 13, 2021, 09:12:35 AM
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Dona


The question is, why are they all lying down.. and where were they, lying down..
 

April 13, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
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Dona


Simon lying down too.. Where, where, where were they lying down? Could something have hit them sideways and knocked them down?



 

April 13, 2021, 11:15:21 AM
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Dona


Nooo. Cant be sideways.. Too many temple wounds and no defensive wounds..

Sooo. They were lying down and didnt see it  coming..

 Sakes.. that implies they were sleeping..?

Or, their vision was blocked..  By the tent?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 11:26:16 AM by Dona »
 

April 14, 2021, 01:11:27 PM
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Dona


Rustem

I have him lying down too. Face down..  He has dual , bilateral temporal  wounds..  AND, he has a  bleeding in the  kidney/adrenal area. Something hit him on the back.. So, face down..

I havent eliminated an attack yet so, all these injuries could be from  an attack.. but, for now,  Im going with them lying down..They are NOT from a  fall however.

I am troubled by the fact that Simons and Rustems  temporal wounds seem very similar in size and location.



« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 01:27:57 PM by Dona »
 

April 14, 2021, 01:20:38 PM
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Dona


Ohhh, there are  2 "Injuries" boards.. No wonder I am confused..
 

April 14, 2021, 01:52:32 PM
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Dona


The eyes were dislodged while they were ALIVE.. SO, no, they didnt get eaten by rats etc. or washed out by the stream.. For Luda, this would have been within, maybe 20 minutes.  I assume no one in the group plucked them out..

 They most likely popped out on their own with the crushing bodily injuries that Luda and Simon sustained.
 

April 16, 2021, 01:31:25 PM
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Dona


Georgy

 Another temple wound.. and buttocks bruise  So, Face down, most likely.. If butt bruise is connected.. hard to say..


« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 01:37:24 PM by Dona »
 

April 16, 2021, 01:35:48 PM
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Dona


Zena.. She has the 5th temple area wound.. And a bruise to her waist area.. So, without better description of that bruise.. I would say face down or side lying



 

April 16, 2021, 01:44:52 PM
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Dona


Igor ..

No major injuries noted.. I think he was the one up and making the cocoa.. and was missed by whatever hit the others..



 

April 17, 2021, 01:31:58 PM
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Dona


Hikers with injuries to the SIDES of their heads:

Alex
Nick
Georgy
Rustem
Zena

Hikers with wounds to back of their  head : 0

Hikers with wounds to the front of their heads: 0

This is not a coincidence.

I think this evidence rules out ALL other theories except attackers or some event like a tree falling on them or  something running them over etc..

« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 03:12:05 PM by Dona »
 

April 17, 2021, 05:20:31 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hikers with injuries to the SIDES of their heads:

Alex
Nick
Georgy
Rustem
Zena

Hikers with wounds to back of their  head : 0

Hikers with wounds to the front of their heads: 0

This is not a coincidence.

I think this evidence rules out ALL other theories except attackers or some event like a tree falling on them or  something running them over etc..

You really are confusing matters.
DB
 

April 17, 2021, 05:25:33 PM
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Dona


In what way..
 

April 18, 2021, 02:30:35 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
In what way..

Well for instance in another Post you have said that there were no Lower Body Injuries. I pointed out the fact that there were some Injuries to Legs but you then suggested that they were not significant. Now you Post these drawings clearly showing such Injuries  !  ? 
DB
 

April 18, 2021, 02:50:41 PM
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Dona


Life threatening injuries.. Christ!
 

April 19, 2021, 12:17:00 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Life threatening injuries.. Christ!

What are you talking about  ! ? Is that the best you can do to answer my reply which puts you on the spot  ! ?
DB
 

April 19, 2021, 12:22:42 PM
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Dona


In what way.. Are you intentionally being daft? Sure looks it..
 

April 21, 2021, 07:22:25 PM
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Dona


Simons autopsy says he has lividity on his back AND his right side.. So, he died on his back and was  there for quite a while, in that postilion then moved, probably to the ravine, to his side, as he was found..

Isn't that odd.. He had to be on his back for an hour or more.. maybe much more, possibly several  hours, before being moved.. Yeah, thats weird..

Ya know, they are damned near dead themselves, and they are moving dead bodies around???

He had to be on his back for hours to have that much lividity there. so they didnt  move him for hours..Interesting..
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 07:40:01 PM by Dona »
 

April 21, 2021, 07:45:31 PM
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Dona


Did the Mansi find and move them...??

That would explain that Mansi strap that was found that they use to move dead animal carcasses..

That would also explain why they are all lined up like that..easier to find..

That makes a whole lot more sense to me than the hikers doing it, hours later. If you had 20 minutes to live.. would you be doing that? No.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 08:22:32 PM by Dona »
 

April 21, 2021, 11:51:53 PM
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Paf


For the clothes, be carefull with Krivo. He was probably not so undressed at the beginning : the other wore his cloth as well. (and the inverse for Thibeaux-Brignolle, who ended up well covered but only thanks to other's people clothes.
(It's important, because of the order of death -unless they just grab whatever they could in the tent before to go, but unlikely.)

For the injuries, I think small bruise could also come from freezing (part of the body in contact with the snow would get frostbitten quicker ; and once it's frostbitten, after one month or more, it's the same as a bruise without bleeding underneath. Parchment-like. )

Tibo's injuries, lined as you line it, actually coincide more with the "avalanche theory" as presented by the officials than with anything else, no ? If he was on his belly, and snow fall on the tent, then his arm would have been crushed against one ski as well as his head.


That would explain that Mansi strap that was found that they use to move dead animal carcasses..


Some don't think it was a mansi strap.
Quote
I was present when we found under same cedar a cloth belt of dark color with tassels at the ends. I don't know who this item belongs to. The length of this item is about 80 cm, the width is about 10 cm, looks like a belt or strap, with which the Mansi pull loads, except the object would be not strong enough for this purpose.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-298-300?rbid=17743)

For the Livor Mortis (the spot that show they were moved) i've read somewhere it could be due to the position the were thaw out for autopsy. (that would explain why Zolotaryov had some on his side -real ones- and on his back -from autopsy. Maybe.)

And for all the hand injuries (looking like a fight), i've found a photo that shows that frostbite can do similar injuries (from site in french, sorry ! )
(^^ no, i'm not a "fight" theory believer, but looks like you do -as much as we all find some theory more or less convincing-. So, here why I don't find it convincing, since those finger injuries are one of the most common fact in its favor. :)
Plus, in case of agression, why didn't the culprit use any knife, or other weapon ? They had knife, ice axe. It's far easier to kill with than without, and they would have at least unset the tent. (espacially if they took the time to throw the bodies in the ravin : the "no time/no energy" don't work as body probably would never have been retrieved if they didn't found the tent first. )
 

April 22, 2021, 06:24:29 AM
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Dona


* I didnt mention Georgys clothing

* Bodies  dont get frostbite after death

* There was no avalanche. The Mansi would have recognized it.

*Doesnt matter what the strap was used for.. It was left at  crime scene.

*The coroners in this case live and work in Siberia.. They have  no doubt autopsied  100's of frozen bodies.. They would know  what lividity is  and how to read it.

* I dont believe they were in a fight at this point. .. No defense wounds.




 

April 22, 2021, 09:55:52 AM
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Dona


Soooo, the hikers didnt cut the tent or move the bodies..

Someone else was there.
 

April 22, 2021, 06:25:42 PM
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Dona


Wait a  minute here..

 If Luda only lived a very short time.. How did Georgy die before her when she was so severely injured..
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 07:34:34 PM by Dona »
 

April 23, 2021, 04:55:20 PM
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Paf


* I didnt mention Georgys clothing
(it's on the picture, that's why I pointed it out).
* Bodies  dont get frostbite after death
(nop, but when they're hurt, they can lie in the snow alive. -and they can be left for dead and stripped while being only at the last stage of hypothermia-)
* There was no avalanche. The Mansi would have recognized it.
(A month after, for some type of avalanches, nobody wouldn't see anything... slab avalanche can leave little trace, easily covered with a new layer of snow.)
*Doesnt matter what the strap was used for.. It was left at  crime scene.

*The coroners in this case live and work in Siberia.. They have  no doubt autopsied  100's of frozen bodies.. They would know  what lividity is  and how to read it.
The coroner's work is to describe first, and then to interpret. When he describe a "lividity", it's just because he sees it, not because it's relevant. In his interpretation, he doesn't keep it : maybe because it is irrelevant.



The eyes were dislodged while they were ALIVE.. SO, no, they didnt get eaten by rats etc. or washed out by the stream.. For Luda, this would have been within, maybe 20 minutes.  I assume no one in the group plucked them out..

 They most likely popped out on their own with the crushing bodily injuries that Luda and Simon sustained.
I found no signs the eyes were dislodged while alive... Where did you found it ?

And I don't think eye popping can occurs directly from a fall, a shock , an explosion or even a crush -as long as it doesn't break the skulls. It occurs when internal, facial injuries (FROM shock, explosion, ect) are swelling enough around the eyes to push it outside. There are no trace of such injuries on Zolotaryov or Dubinina.
I have no explanation my-self.
 

April 23, 2021, 05:14:42 PM
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Dona


There was NO snow event..There is o evidence of one..  There should have been some even after  weeks.. The tent poles are still standing.. as well as the tent is upright.. the snow on the tent is crumbly from a snow fall and  collapse..  It just didnt happen


I am in the medical profession; I know how medical reports are written.. I write them myself. :)
 

April 23, 2021, 05:19:12 PM
Reply #26
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Dona


I dont recall where I heard that..  But I did..

Eyes DO pop out with  heavy pressure on a body.. I saw a TV show about someone confessing to strangling someone and she said their eye popped out while she was strangling him. It happens..  And the 2 with eyes missing are the 2 with crushing injuries.. Im sure the hikers didnt pluck them out..
 

April 23, 2021, 07:40:05 PM
Reply #27
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Dona


But, aside from all that.. They would not have, what is essentially, comit suicide,  over that. They wold have gone back, at least for blankets etc
 

April 23, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
Reply #28
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Paf


(sorry for teaching you your job !  grin1 I'm just trying to push questions up. :) I'll take your medical judgement !
For the eyes... When strangling, yes ! Here I totally understand. The blood pressure is rising in the head, so yes ! ... but a chest pressure ? Would it rise the blood pressure to this point ?  )

But about going back to the tent... maybe not. :)
I'm living in Yukon for 4 years now, with at least one short week of -40 each year (-20 being the nice time you WANT to get out for long walk).
I haven't made any ski trek here ; but I was used to it back in France.

From my experience, and if I had been down that slope this very night without any other element we don't know (just the cold, the torn tent, probably strong winds), I would have stay in the wood - make a fire first, then dig a den, move the fire closer to the den, and not move before noon.
I think that's really the fist thing my parents teach me when skiing : If you're lost, make a den and lay something red something around. (the second point not being very relevant in Dyatlov's case ! ^^) In the Yukon, I learned that fire comes first...
(Have you ever read Jack London's "To built a fire" ? It could actually quite be Dyatlov's story... with lots of missing explanations though.)

Playing penguin : keeping close to each other, and singing (we know they loved that) to keep awake.
Then, go with the best clothes (what Zina, Dyatlov and Slobodin didn't have) to the tent for food and blankets. Come back to the den, make it another day, night. It's better to stay half frozen for 3 weeks than freezing fully.

That's the part I can't understand if there's no snow event : Why the hell would have some of them gone back on the slop without being ready (and with good condition, like less wind if the wind was really a problem) for it ? I can understand the Yuri's death, if the fire was not burning quick enough.  I can really not understand a personne who try to get to the tent, feel the wind and the cold, and still go ahead. That is suicide : so much more than staying in the wood, even after staying in the den/at the tree for days.
(Well. If there's nothing else than naturals elements, of course ! )
 

April 24, 2021, 08:40:40 AM
Reply #29
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Dona


I wold think the pressure on the chest would exert pressure on the heart..like squeezing a tube of tooth paste.

Not going back to the tent,  was suicide. They knew that..Odd tho that they didnt retrace their own footsteps back .. and they appear to be crawling.. Maybe in exhaustion.. may be because they didnt want to be seen.. :) And maybe they weren't running to something but, from something.

I agree.. I think this was survivable for them.. Why ddnt they make a bigger fire with wood sitting right next to them?? And cutting/breaking those limbs took an incredible amount of time and energy..