Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Assumptions and facts
anna_pycckux:
amashilu
Yes, I agree! I'm confused with the translation. I wanted to say that the injuries and fractures were received before death... That is, during his lifetime.
eurocentric:
--- Quote from: amashilu on February 03, 2023, 09:52:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: eurocentric on February 03, 2023, 06:25:12 AM ---1. That all chest fractures occurred before death.
Perfectly possible that some fractures occurred after death, which would also help explain the lack of bruising, caused for example by deer, the males weighing up to 45 stone, walking across the bodies on the floor of the ravine when there to drink, perhaps when the bodies were partly covered with snow.
--- End quote ---
eurocentric -- This is a very interesting post.
Mansi
The Mansi finding the bodies first, but backing away and not wanting to be involved, makes good sense; the area around the cedar was said to be one of their resting places when hunting, so it is plausible that they found the two Yuris in that location.
Fractures
According to the autopsy, Lyuda's death was due to "hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart, multiple fractured ribs and internal bleeding." It's my understanding that one of her ribs, upon fracturing hard, was actually pushed into her heart, causing her death within a matter of minutes. So I think it was established that at least her fractures occurred pre-mortem.
--- End quote ---
I'm not challenging the cause of death, only saying that we cannot know that all fractures occurred before death, only the ones which were tested. And any rib found penetrating the lining of the heart or lungs across Lyuda and Semyon's chests would be tested as it would be vital to know if that happened during life.
But across their chests, Lyuda also with single left-side bilateral fractures, there was probably around 24 separate rib fractures, so 48 mating surfaces to heal. Unless all 24 sites were individually tested nobody can say with 100% certainty that they all happened before death. It becomes an assumption.
Some fractures may have originally been closed fractures, the rib fractured in life and healing initiated and the bone remaining in place, and then the weight of animals visiting the stream opened the fracture, separating it after death.
eurocentric:
--- Quote from: GlennM on February 03, 2023, 06:52:00 AM ---Regarding idea 3.
Diaries do record some attitudinal problems within the group. It seems that the females were the most vocal in regard to provocation. I am reminded that those who smoked promised to swear off cigarettes during the trek. This in itself is a concern. We recall that the trail for the two days prior to the hikers demise was difficult and uphill. We should not discount fatigue and differences in stamina affecting group cohesion. Too, there was an incident on the train regarding the stealing of vodka from a drunk. I understand that the tourists could not get vodka initially, but it was found and consumed by the rescue party. So, we have alcohol, tobacco, high altitude, modified plans, broken romance and close quarters. I could support the old saw about fish and guests stinking after 3 days. Would it be enough for otherwise sane people to go to extremes? Is having a time out extreme? No. Is a fistfight over trust issues? Yes.
--- End quote ---
There was certainly enough petty squabbles in the diaries to suggest such conflict, and I do agree that it's possible the 'drunken' (euphoric) photo's may be explained by rebel Krivo stealing that bottle of vodka on the train so it was never officially part of their inventory, although they were tested for alcohol at autopsy and found negative.
But to me the biggest potential flashpoint, viewing things as only an amateur psychologist, would be between Igor and Semyon.
To psyche profile Igor Dyatlov, he would revel in playing teacher on these hikes, he had more experience than other students, and they'd look up to him and be his subordinates which would feed his 'little man' ego. He lived hiking, the freedom of the outdoors, but leadership would be part of the buzz for him. Then along comes a man who was a teacher, in varying postwar physical education roles, and he had vastly more outdoor experience during his war years, and he might undermine and question anything Igor did which he thought unwise.
Most of the others already knew each other, some hung out together at the UPI, and most had shared hikes before.
From photographic evidence I suspect that Igor's mood collapsed, demoralised, when Yuri Yudin left. Yudin, the sunshine boy, seemed very engaging, was of the same height, and they'd hiked before. Yudin's kneeling on the front left, Igor handstanding on the left in this photo and (quite literally) apex socialiser Tibo is on top.
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Nikolay-Thibeaux-Brignolle-10.jpg
Notably Igor's only smiling photo's on the DPI hike are when next to/interacting with Yudin, where he grins tooth happy gap-ily. Not even his pal Rustem could get a smile out of him afterwards in the hike's only solo portrait.
Everything was going from bad-to-worse for Mr Dyatlov, the departure of an ally, and this older teacher attaching himself to his hike. I thought his last diary entry sounded depressed, like he imagined they were at the end of the world.
GlennM:
Eurocentric, you have backed up your speculations with evidence and that is good. Certainly, in a remote location with inclement weather, a second rate tent, with no cigarettes, a swiped bottle of vodka and women, there could well be a challenge for leadership. The map Igor had was not precise. The route was changed at the cache. The arrangement of the bodies in the forest are suggestive of decisions made by committee, not top down.
We can't know the truth because Zolo never wrote his final thoughts. For that matter, none did! That in itself is mysterious.
This gets down to a dichotomy. Were the hikers chased or were they led? Conspiracy buffs like the former, while natural calamity buffs prefer the latter. I like the latter. I also like the footprint trail from camp.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version