Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Timeline
amashilu:
Forensic pathologist Eduard Tumanov noted that in the autopsies, many of the hikers had injuries that were not "fresh." That is, for example, bruises were beginning to turn green and injuries to crust over, indicating that they were inflicted one to two days prior to death.
Then we see that Rustem's punch to the head brought him to death within a span of minutes, as did Tibo's, and Luyda's and Zolotaryev's rib crushing.
So, what does the timeline look like to you, from leaving the tent to moment of death? If we just for a moment pretend that the bruises and other insults were not ALL from just the daily grind, as I'm sure many of them could have been, but from whatever-happened, do you think there was a series of incidents over a period of two days? What does that look like?
Ziljoe:
--- Quote from: amashilu on February 02, 2023, 12:30:04 PM ---Forensic pathologist Eduard Tumanov noted that in the autopsies, many of the hikers had injuries that were not "fresh." That is, for example, bruises were beginning to turn green and injuries to crust over, indicating that they were inflicted one to two days prior to death.
Then we see that Rustem's punch to the head brought him to death within a span of minutes, as did Tibo's, and Luyda's and Zolotaryev's rib crushing.
So, what does the timeline look like to you, from leaving the tent to moment of death? If we just for a moment pretend that the bruises and other insults were not ALL from just the daily grind, as I'm sure many of them could have been, but from whatever-happened, do you think there was a series of incidents over a period of two days? What does that look like?
--- End quote ---
A good and interesting question .
Ziljoe:
There is nothing written that says RUSTEM SLOBODIN received a punch to the head. Nor does it say that it is what brought him to death. I think it implies that if he sustained this injury then it would possibly bring him to death.
However, Igor b has questioned this fracture and put forth other considerations for the fracture. One being , the freezing of the fluids in the skull. ( This is also referenced in evidence based case studies of death by freezing) . The concept is falling by exhaustion and hypothermia in the snow. Tunneling into the snow a bit with the head going in first. If we note RUSTEM SLOBODIN hat , it is pushed backwards . ( The fact that this hat is still on his head gives argument against outsiders, being made to undress, a fight, or strong winds?)
Anyway, if his head is covered , or the top of the skull is but his neck is exposed and torso is covered by his jacket, then we have the freezing of fluids happening at different times. . If his neck freeze's and continues up towards the skull there is argument that the expansion forces the crack . The opposing argument it not being a blow to the head that caused the death is that if it was pre death, then the freezing of the skull would have left a mass of frozen fluid between the skull and skin as the fluid got forced out through freezing.
I hope that makes sense.
amashilu:
I thought it was pretty well agreed that Rustem had a blow to the side of his head, which caused him to fall immediately, and since his body was warm, it created an ice circle as he died. Maybe that's compatible with what you are saying. I tried not to read your gruesome explanation too carefully. lipseal1
So if he died right away, then what happened to the others, in the timeline? Did they go on living for 2 more days, getting injured and bruised over time?
Ziljoe:
It is uncomfortable reading but part of nature. I think it's suggested that a blow to the head by a blunt instrument or rocks on the ground may have caused the fracture. We have to understand the skill set of the pathology at the time.
RUSTEM SLOBODIN was the only one to have been reported to have ice under his body. That doesn't mean the others didn't. This suggests he died at that location at least.
It doesn't mean he died right away, it just implies he died there, where he was found.
I can't answer the question if the process of their deaths was over a number of days, and it is a valid question .
If we look at it from the assumption of they left the tent together , then I can only put forward a general idea. I am at this point looking at it from a natural cause, or at least not outsiders. ( I'm not against outsiders by the way) .
Reasons for leaving the tent without boots, axe's etc that I find most logical.
1) Wolverine 2) avalanche/build up of snow/ snow slide 3) WABs sound vibration. 4) maybe some kind of poisoning ( tinned food) 5) internal conflict ( I have a problem with internal conflict leading to them" all" leaving the tent)
By the reports/statements it looks like they all went to the ceder. It makes a bit of sense to take the branches to start the fire. I can't work out what the exact chronology sequence was after that.
Thoughts are. Find water, from Wolverine or poisoning. Did they get wet? Was the attempt to make a fire before or after the ravine?
I'm stuck at the thought that they got to the ceder, then the ravine I can't decided which problem came first. A snow collapse caused the panic and then 5 went back to the ceder. The 5 tried to dig out the ravine four. The 2 Yuri's were wet and tried to make a fire when the other three thought they would go back to the tent for equipment. The threat at the tent now outweighed the the situation at the ravine / ceder???
Some things to consider that suggest a snow collapse are the broken ribs and neck fracture along with the absence of frostbite . It suggests a quick death with lack of exposure to the cold.
All obvious thinking and far from perfect.
Looking at from the perspective of outsider's, the variabilities are endless.i don't wish to be disagreeable but I can't see anything that is conclusive.
1)Ravine four: , under 3 meters of snow( hard compact snow, suggesting a snow collapse). Broken ribs (flail) . Deformed neck . No frost bite.
2)both Yuri's at ceder: partially undressed, burns , next to fire. Suggests trying to get warm. Inside of leg wear missing suggesting climbing tree.
3) Igor b is in classic boxer postion of hypothermia, Rustem digging into snow. Zina ( reported to have a snow beard) . Hands clenched in postion of sleep. (Thumb between two fingers) .
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version