About radioactivity.

[mja Mahé]

Hello.
I've once again delved into this Dyatlov Pass incident puzzle after watching a few videos on YouTube about it.
There are a few points I raised in the comments of one video.

First, the Dyatlov group had some ticket collectors in its ranks. Some members of the group hadn't paid for their train tickets and had hidden under the seats.
What came to mind when I heard this was a French UFO case involving a train and a UFO that landed on the tracks. It would then be necessary to consider that our extraterrestrial visitors have a strong taste for justice in order to justify their intervention against the Dyatlov group following their misdeeds against a Russian railway company.

There is another point I'll discuss later, as I haven't yet finished my investigation...the engraved symbols.

But let's get back to the topic at hand: radioactivity. I left all the far-fetched theories about nuclear testing in the area aside, believing that besides radioactivity, there are other effects of an atomic explosion that no one has considered. I'm thinking, among other things, of the blast effect that would have literally bombarded nearby trees with rocks and various debris.
So, I searched the internet for the connection between nuclear power and the Urals and came across this:

"On September 29, 1957, one of the greatest nuclear disasters in history, but also one of the least known, occurred. An explosion of one of the containers at the Mayak nuclear complex in the Urals exposed 470,000 Soviets to radiation over an area of ​​20,000 square kilometers." Source: https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/affaires-sensibles/29-septembre-1957-l-accident-nucleaire-de-maiak-ou-le-silence-atomique-sovietique-1445546

Following this information, I rushed to Google Maps to see where Mayak was located in relation to the closest point to the Dyatlov group's route, and this is none other than the train departure point at Sverdlovk, the former name of Yekatarinburg: the distance as the crow flies from Mayak to Sverdlovk is approximately 127 km.

127 km is therefore the radius of a circle centered at Mayak, giving us an area of ​​approximately 127*127*3.14 = 50,645.06 square kilometers. This is more than double the 20,000 square kilometers of the area exposed to radiation.

The limit of this area is located approximately 80 kilometers from Mayak, near Syssert.
This explains why the Dyatlov group had radioactivity on their clothing, with the assumption that the members of this group may have been traveling in the radiation zone between Syssert and Mayak before their departure. It should also be noted that no one mentioned radioactivity on the tent or the belongings left inside.

Friendly.

mja Mahé

[Axelrod]

First, the Dyatlov group had some ticket collectors in its ranks. Some members of the group hadn't paid for their train tickets and had hidden under the seats.
What came to mind when I heard this was a French UFO case involving a train and a UFO that landed on the tracks. It would then be necessary to consider that our extraterrestrial visitors have a strong taste for justice in order to justify their intervention against the Dyatlov group following their misdeeds against a Russian railway company.
Serov-par-rapport-Mayak.jpg[/img][/url]

I don't know what the situation is in your country, but in the Soviet Union a huge number of students traveled on trains without tickets. Do you suppose that many Russian students died later, and what's more, UFOs chased them?

[GlennM]

The limit of this area is located approximately 80 kilometers from Mayak, near Syssert.
This explains why the Dyatlov group had radioactivity on their clothing, with the assumption that the members of this group may have been traveling in the radiation zone between Syssert and Mayak before their departure. It should also be noted that no one mentioned radioactivity on the tent or the belongings left inside.

Where I come from, this is called " the elephant in the middle of the room"   It is hard to ignore.

[Axelrod]

The radiation from a Kyshtym incident cannot explain the radiation on tourists' clothes. More precisely, this is an explanation from amateurs and for amateurs. It is strange that PhD candidate Kuryakov studied at the Moscow Engineering Physics Institute (MIFI). Apparently, he did not study well there and did not comprehend the specific situation.

The situation after the Kyshtym (MAYAK) accident in Chelyabinsk-40 - is not an elephant in the room, it is a zebra in the room. This is alpha, beta and gamma radiation from the black, gray and white stripes of the zebra, that is, from garbage. However, for readers who assume a UFO chase, my explanations will also be incomprehensible.

[GlennM]

Being hard to ignore is not synonymous with being correct. Axelrod replaces the elephant with a zebra. What explanation can be given for the use of geiger counters during rescue and recovery? All beasts wish to graze on new fodder for the mind.

[mja Mahé]

Hello.

Shouldn't we confuse UFO occupants with the Soviet police? If the Soviet police don't care about Russians who dodge trains, perhaps the same isn't true of these UFO occupants called extraterrestrials, who may have something to do with the evolution of Earth's technology and were present in Russia for that reason at the time? Even more so, should we be looking at an expeditionary group that wants to be, or should be, well-known?

I don't know if you've studied ufology much, but we sometimes come to believe that some UFO cases are actually interventions identical to those of the police following one or more crimes, or even one or more murders.

I think the Dyatlov group, which wanted to gain respect with this expedition and acquire a certain notoriety, should never have indulged in this kind of dishonest practice. There's actually no guarantee that this was the root of the problem and the incident that cost them their lives, but if we remove from this case all the paranormal or extraordinary causes that many are so fond of, it must be admitted that a purely Cartesian and simplistic cause, even if it's obscured by a lack of lucidity regarding an unknown phenomenon, holds up better than all the exaggerations!

The cause of the radioactivity coming from Mayak doesn't seem to satisfy you. It's true that when we talk about UFO intervention, because the presence of radioactivity is also linked in many cases to their appearances, this hypothesis seems quite reliable. This is, in fact, what I've thought since I learned about this case.

[Axelrod]

The theory of extraterrestrial influence is actually very interesting.
In Levashov's examination, only beta decay was detected.

What is it? This is when an atom in the nucleus, which is overloaded with an extra neutron,
this neutron decays into a proton and an electron. Due to the different number of protons, the atom itself turns into another chemical element (the next one in the periodic table). The electron does not remain with the atom, having high energy, despite the forces of electrical attraction, and flies away several meters in the air.

Just as in semiconductors there is the concept of electron and hole conductivity, electron beta decay and positron beta decay are classified. It is believed that during decay, a positron (antielectron) and neutrino, or an electron and antineutrino, are separated. It is also believed that alpha decay affects a distance of 2-3 cm, beta decay has a range of 2-3 meters, gamma decay affects 2-3 km in the air. In the presence of an obstacle, this range is less.

But a neutrino flies NOT 2-3 meters during beta decay! It is an INCREDIBLY greater distance. I read a theory that a neutrino flies 100 light years. Here an interesting theory arises. Sirius is 9 light years from us. The nearest star Alpha Centauri in the southern sky is twice as close. These neutrino pulses can be sent from other civilizations that have much more progress in technology.

Here is where aliens can affect us, not in the way we imagine for our experience, or as described in science fiction novels, that they are like us and come out of iron doors in spacesuits. They can send out these streams of neutrinos (or antineutrinos), thereby causing the beta decay that we see in the tests.

[GlennM]

The closest star is Proxima Centauri.  4.5 light years away. A light year is 6 trillion miles distant. Do the math.
UFO is funny. Has advanced technology, comes to earth. Has parking lights on. Probably needs a bath too.

[Axelrod]

You know, once upon a time, 100-200 years ago, there was a horse in front of the tram car, but now there are no horses. The tram moves without a horse. In the same way, advanced civilizations are not obliged to send astronauts in spacesuits to explore other civilizations that are lagging behind them in intelligence.

I found such a map in the English Wikipedia article.
This is a map of the total radioactive background (natural and technical).
It is clear that there are no nuclear power plants in the Himalayas. But we also see strong radiation in the USA, France, etc.



In the same way, a form of consciousness on other planets could notice a change in the radioactive background in the Solar System (where we are) due to the atomic explosions in Japan and other places.
The difference between August 1945 and February 1959 is 13.5 years. For Sirius it is not enough (9+9=18), but it is enough for Alpha Centauri to notice a change in the background, its constant picture for several years, and in 4-5 years to send a response radiation. Dyatlov's group became victims of this radiation.

We do not know the details of this radiation, our science is not yet able to study it through devices and microscopes. It has only been established that the radiation of neutrinos due to beta decay covers a distance of 100 light years in the Universe.

We do not yet know the cause of beta decay. If it occurs under the influence of an external neutrino flow, which we do not notice when it passes through us. I assume that due to this effect, certain isotopes are capable of decaying, emitting their own neutrino or antineutrino, adding them to the neutrino flow, like the avalanche effect of the neutron flow during the chain reaction of uranium decay.

If Dyatlov's group had clothes contaminated with such radiation, then they could have been exposed to more of this external influence sent from other planets. Just as a person in black clothes gets hotter than in white clothes.

[GlennM]

I sense yet another revision to a book. Before revising, have a clear sense of scale and magnitude. The magnitude of direction and distance is immense as is the solar wind. The scale of earthly particle emmissions is vanishingly small. I think a wise author would smile and move on to more productive lines if reasoning. An unwise author swallows the bait, the hook, line and sinker.

[Axelrod]

I can only express ideas at the level of assumptions.
Your objections seem tempting.
There are claims to Levashov's experiment that no spectrometer research was done there. But we have evidence that the range of such particles is not limited to Levashov's room.

Strontium-90 is used as a control sample for calibration by the spectrometer.
But such an isotope strontium-90 does not form in nature. It can only arise in significant quantities in a nuclear reactor. If there is a substance, then there is a reactor, and this is known 100 light years away. It is like a source of radio waves. It is clear that a tiger and a bear cannot be involved in this.

In order for another planet to affect the Earth, it is not necessary to affect the Earth itself. You can influence the Sun, and the Sun will influence the earth directly.

[Axelrod]

For example, here is a star that is a billion times further than Sirius (9 billion light years), nevertheless this star is somehow noticed from Earth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MACS_J1149_Lensed_Star_1

In the same way, aliens observe us and see our radiation.

I think that an unusual emitter in the form of a nuclear reactor Chelyabinsk-40 is also noticed from a distance of 1-2 billion times closer, from Sirius or Alpha Centaurus. Recently I read that a nuclear reactor emits 95% of thermal energy (useful for us) and 4-5% of energy in the form of antineutrinos (which are also formed during the decay of atomic nuclei in the reactor), that is, energy that is useless to us, which fly around in space.

If the nuclear tests began in 1940, then after 18 years a resonant response signal could have been sent from an inhabited planet in Sirius' orbit.

ADD: The first nuclear test in the USSR was performedon August 29, 1949.
It could be noticed from Alpha Centauri
distance to Alpha Centauri 4.344 light years
round trip 8.688 = 8 years 250 days.

8 years = August 29, 1957 + 125 days (September-December) + 125 days (spring 1958) = May 5, 1958The first nuclear test in the USSR was conducted on August 29, 1949.
It could be seen from Alpha Centauri
distance to Alpha Centauri 4.344 light years
round trip 8.688 = 8 years 250 days.


8 years = August 29, 1957 + 125 days (September-December) + 125 days (spring 1958) = May 5, 1958
several monts for reply decision

https://dyatlovpass.com/lev-ivanov-ru

When already in May we examined the scene of the incident with E. Maslennikov * * we found that some young trees on the forest tree line have traces of burning, but they are not in concentric shape or any other system. There was no epicenter. This once again confirmed a source of heat ray or completely unknown to us energy acting selectively - the snow was not melted, the trees were not damaged. It seemed like when the hikers walked on their feet more than five hundred meters down from the mountain, someone dealt with some of them as direct targets.

After all, when in February we came to the big cedar tree, near which the hikers tried to make a fire and carefully examined and compared everything, we were struck by the courage and stamina of the young people who fought for their lives and the lives of their comrades. Imagine a tree trunk 50-60 cm thick. Hikers took turns climbing this tree to break off branches for a fire (they made a fire). On the bark of the tree there were frozen (it’s scary to even say it!) their skin of their inner thighs and scraps of underwear. All this covered the cedar bark. During excavations in May, we found the corpses of Lyuda Dubinina and the others. They died first from terrible internal injuries, but they were not abandoned. They were carried away from the fire, carefully laid. Even the dead men themselves took care of the dead. This is how real people behave. We have something to take from the past, and how petty the behavior of other people now seems, who cannot even overcome ordinary difficulties.

But what about the astronauts of the fireballs? If they exist, then sooner or later they will manifest themselves, and circumstances will bring them to our civilization. I have no doubt about that.

L. I. Ivanov, lawyer Kustanay

[GlennM]

Thank you for your extensive comment.

[mja Mahé]

Just one little question.
A bout the cedar and those broken branches, it seem that I've read about that this tree had also with radioactivity? Truth or false?

[Axelrod]

I don't see anything strange in the situation with broken branches.
This happens very often, also with the outer trees.

[Ziljoe]

Just one little question.
A bout the cedar and those broken branches, it seem that I've read about that this tree had also with radioactivity? Truth or false?

Hi mja Mahé,

I don't recall anything mentioned about radioactivity and the ceder.  From the orgional case files, the only mention of the radioactivity was from the readings from the Geiger counter at the end of the case.

Someone allegedly took a dosimeter to the slope but that's a different measuring device .

[GlennM]

Radiation, UFO aliens, mystery trees, here is an answer courtesy of a forum member's contribution.

Read the book online "Transforming Delusion into Clarity. A Guide to the Fundamental Practices of Tibetan Buddhism" - Rinpoche Yongey Mingyu

[mja Mahé]

What's this cedar on your photos? The original on the original place with now roads???

I don't see anything strange in the situation with broken branches.
This happens very often, also with the outer trees.

[Ziljoe]

@mja Mahé

I think Axelrod just posted pictures of a random tree.

I don't know how much you have read but the orgional statements say that the branches were broken with reference to the remains of the fire , for example, the burnt branches belonged to the ceder. Also, they were lying on some of the foliage from those branches as an insulation from the snow.

Under the fresh snow from the night or day of the fire, hard melted snow was found around the fire. Basically, snow had melted and when the searchers came and removed the snow that had fallen or blown in over 3 weeks a hard layer was found underneath the fresh snow, this is how I understand it.

The mention of skin being found on the tree is only said  many years after. The autopsy doesn't mention lots of skin missing from any of the bodies that would be seen . Given the lack of any real forensic investigation, I doubt that anyone looked that closely.

We have a fire, broken branches and insulation from the snow . It leans towards a rational effort to make a fire and keep contact from away the snow . Survival in my opinion.

[Arjan]

Kyshtym accident in 1957
One way or another, the nuclear and radiation accident in Kyshtym in 1957 had an influence on the research of the Dyatlov accident.

The severity of the Kyshtym accident can be compared with other nuclear accident in Chernobyl and Fukushima via the next hyperlink:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents

The influence of the Kyshtym accident on the Dyatlov accident is obvious when taking into account that Yuri Kri had helped rescuing and cleaning the area after the Kyshtym explosion.
Contamination from this explosion may well have been present in his clothings and his clothes may well have contaminated to some limited extend the clothes of other group members.
This may explain why clothings from group members had been tested on radio-activity.

The testresult don't show worrying results, of course as far as these results are genuine....

Mining plutonium
Not so very far from Ivdel mining of plutonium took place.
Plutonium from a specific mine has a specific -unique - radiation pattern.
Mining of plutonium had been an absolute state secret at that time, and very probably still now.
Samples of contamination by plutonium will reveal the source and the mine of the plutonium that had caused the contamination in question: the outcome of this kind of test will very probably state secret.

Spy activity by U2 airplanes
During the end of the 50s of last century, U2 airplanes did spy activity above the area around Ivdel, until one U2 airplane had been shot down by USSR not very far from Ivdel and Kyshtym.
 

[GlennM]

Radioactive particles did not preclude the hikers from going to Ortoten.Radiation did not result in the suspension of logging or mining. Radiation did not displace the Mansi at Vizhay. Radiation did not cause the demise of the hikers, nor their equipment. It can not be proven whether any particle decay came from a lantern mantle, the work site at home, a nuclear accident, or anything else. This whole divergence does not address the central core of the mystery.

One school of thought places the group's last camp on 1079, the other puts them at or near the cedar. I opt for the 1079 location. Weather driven snow movement caused them the leave their tent, and later filled it. Weather driven conditions prevented them from keeping warm in the open air at the cedar. Weather drove them to the ravine where a snow collapse further injured the group. It was a matter of attrition ultimately caused by a misunderstanding of how bad things could get if the weather turned bad. It was a matter of over estimating one's ability to survive in an indifferent natural world.

The big question is why they left the tent. I believe it was weather driven snow that is the cause.

[mja Mahé]

Hello.

  Thank you for your answers. Now I'm interested for to have photo of the tree where a member of the group has carved some Mansi symbols. This photo isn't at the first look on this website and it's difficult to find this one on the web!

  Friendly.

[GlennM]

Are you certain who carved the tree? I think the DP9 had other priorities at the time. Good luck on your quest for truth.

[mja Mahé]

Are you certain who carved the tree? I think the DP9 had other priorities at the time. Good luck on your quest for truth.

[GlennM]

My understanding is that the hikers did not mark up any trees. I understand that the hikers knew these tree markings were made and read by Mansi. What they meant at the time, according to diary entries was unknown to them  but interesting.

If your idea is that the DP9 took the time to skin the bark off a tree and paint it with arcane symbols painted with some concoction, you may not find much support for this idea.

If you instead believe that there was some meaningful message for the hikers like a warning or an invitation, nothing came out in the case files.

Before the group set out for Ortoten via Kholat Syakl (1079) the forester advised against it, not because of attack, but weather.

Group Diary 1.30.59

Mansi signs tell about animals they saw, resting stops and other things. It is particularly interesting to solve its meaning for the hikers as well as historians.

[Ziljoe]

Are you certain who carved the tree? I think the DP9 had other priorities at the time. Good luck on your quest for truth.

Many of the tribes did the same with tree's used as sign posts. They also used the chums( tents) or tent structures. Depending on how thick the forest was , it would signal the direction of the path. Some of the symbols denote the individual hunter or family, also some of the markings show where the traps for animals lye. On occasion they would leave other marks for when the hunter expected to return after so many days away from the last sign post ( tree). They also were signed where was safe to crose rivers in winter or a short passage in the "s"bends in a river. For example , drag the canoe across a hundred meters or paddle for 5 km. Sometimes they would break trees in the direction of the best path. The symbols on the tree aree the sign posts of their highway and a communication to other hunters.

[Axelrod]

I see a mystical analogy in this situation:

There is a Russian fairy tale where Ivan stops in front of a stone on which is written:


If you go to the left, you will lose your horse/deer!
If you go to the right (that is, to the pass) – you will lose your life!
You will go straight – you will live, but you will forget yourself!

We see the same thing here.

I will explain the last analogy in more detail.

If you go to the left, you will lose your horse/deer! (Karelin/Atmanaki's group did not take the train in Serov)

If you go to the right (that is, to the pass) – you will lose your life! (Igor Dyatlov group died)

You will go straight – you will live, but you will forget yourself! (Igor Fomenko forgot the route)

As for those who went straight (does not remember anything) and ended up in the USA, there are interesting memories of Maya Piskaryova on samlib.ru:

Oh, those elusive Rostovites! For a long time they did not give in to the search, as in that winter of 1959. First, documentary film director Eduard Anishchenko, himself a Rostov resident, turned to one of the tourist clubs in Rostov-on-Don during the filming of the film «Unfinished Route», and, as it turned out, successfully! He contacted one of the friends of the leader of a group of Rostov students from the Rostov Pedagogical Institute.

In general, this friend intrigued us completely. But the friend also named the head of the Rostov group and said that he now lives in the USA. And this is already half the battle. They began to look for Fomenko in the United States, but then there was a scandal with Snowden, and the Americans closed their rescuers.

Alina, the administrator of the secret.li forum, joined the search and found a mention of the name Fomenko on the website of Tver State University. A letter was sent to the university, they kindly answered me. And it became clear that this is the very Fomenko we are looking for. On behalf of all the researchers of the tragedy, I express my gratitude to Yuri Domansky from the Department of Literary Theory, who responded and told me the address of Igor Vladimirovich Fomenko. Now the letter has gone to America, and we hold our breath in anticipation.

[–] Where we planned to go to the ridge, I don’t remember. / I don’t remember his last name / I don’t remember exactly where we landed / I don’t remember the settlements. / Thank you. But I don't remember. I won't fantasize. / I don’t remember at all how and where they left the village.

[–] Please remember if you were going to go to OTORTEN?

[–] I don't remember anything about Otorten. And I can't remember the words either.

[Ziljoe]

It was a tourist hike that went wrong. Several other tourists hikes suffered at the same time. This is pre Dyatlov, in parallel and post Dyatlov.

If you go into cold harsh conditions, thing are amplified as compared to staying at home. It just makes the tipping point more drastic.

Everything points to the fact that they had to leave the tent .

[Axelrod]

I posted Bilibin's picture because it is very similar to photo of Yuri Kri.
https://www.instagram.com/hard_life2316/p/DFPfOTvOtqg/
Mansi sign denotes the fillowing text:

Direction to the south: "If you go left, you'll lose your horse,
Direction to the north: if you go right, you'll lose your life,
direction to the west, if you go straight, you'll live, but you'll forget yourself"


Направление на юг: «Налево пойдёшь — коня потеряешь,
Направление на север: направо пойдёшь — жизнь потеряешь,
направление прямо на запад: прямо пойдёшь — жив будешь, да себя позабудешь»

[Ziljoe]

I posted Bilibin's picture because it is very similar to photo of Yuri Kri.
https://www.instagram.com/hard_life2316/p/DFPfOTvOtqg/
Mansi sign denotes the fillowing text:

Direction to the south: "If you go left, you'll lose your horse,
Direction to the north: if you go right, you'll lose your life,
direction to the west, if you go straight, you'll live, but you'll forget yourself"


Направление на юг: «Налево пойдёшь — коня потеряешь,
Направление на север: направо пойдёшь — жизнь потеряешь,
направление прямо на запад: прямо пойдёшь — жив будешь, да себя позабудешь»

Axelrod

I have to ask how you conclude this

Direction to the south: "If you go left, you'll lose your horse,
Direction to the north: if you go right, you'll lose your life,
direction to the west, if you go straight, you'll live, but you'll forget yourself"

What does this mean?

The image you posted was this year.

"The image appears to be a digital artwork depicting a stylized skull wearing a helmet, with several symbolic objects surrounding it. The artwork is by Pavel Delaydelo, posted on Instagram on January 25, 2025. "



In all respect Axelrod, you just make the water more muddy and add nothing.