Theories Discussion > Altercation on the pass

Altercation on the pass

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Teddy:
Well known pathologist involved with Dyatlov case, Eduard Tumanov, who is participant in the current expedition with the prosecutor's office, is pushing a theory that hikers took part in a fight, either between them or with outsiders. He is not partial to any of the two versions. His observations are purely based on the autopsy reports and mainly what is missing from them. Judging from the official autopsy records, Dyatlov group members have injuries sustained perhaps a day or two before the onset of death. We are talking abrasions and bruises, common for injuries from blunt objects: a fist, a branch, any solid blunt object. On the face and hands there are abrasions covered with a crust, bruises turning green. This indicates that the duration of the injury is greater than those minutes, hours that could have occurred before their deaths. And they could be sustained in a fight, or in some other events. Most likely, the group came into conflict with someone in the area of the pass.

Here is a closer look at the injuries on Krivonischenko, who was found together with Doroshenko near an extinct fire under cedar. The lower left half of the pants is missing to the level of the knee joint. The edges of the underpants fabric at the edges are uneven with the charring of the fabric. It turns out that the lower left half of the pants burned on the leg. Why and how could this happen?

Further multiple abrasions on the body. The site of sedimentation in the center of the frontal region. In the left temporal region there are two abrasions of red-brown color. The area from the right temple to the nape has an internal hemorrhage. And this suggests a strong blow or blows to the temporal and rear region of the head. But for some reason, the expert does not describe external damage to the right temporal region. And this is amazing. There should be a visible bruise.

Perhaps a few punches with a fist, or a hard blunt object. And here is another very interesting detail. The rear of the right hand in Krivonischenko, as the expert wrote, is swollen. In the area of the metacarpophalangeal joints (knuckles), the soft tissues are whitish-gray in color, the fingers are brown-violet. On the back of these fingers minor skin abrasions. This picture is likely to indicate a fight. Krivonischenko was beaten on the head and he hit his right fist. We read further: on the middle phalanx of the third finger, the defect of the epidermis, in shape and size coincides with that found in the oral cavity. It turns out that Krivonischenko bit off a piece of skin from his finger. Krivonischenko could have been beaten and tortured. Probably, he couldn't stand the pain so he bit off his skin. And here's another mystery. On the middle phalanx of the fourth, fifth fingers skin wound, tight to the touch. With charring. Again, it is not clear what kind of skin wound? An expert describes a burn? But if he described the burn, he would have to write what form he was and there are many more details. And here it is just like a wound, and with charring.

Tumanov's opinion is that all bodies should be exhumed and subjected to a new full autopsy for missed or omitted on purpose details. xHe is pointing at the following discrepancies and violations when the bodies were first protocoled:

* When first the bodies were found there should be a forensic expert present to observe the position and overall condition of the bodies the way they were discovered. The presence and localization of deformities and the condition of the skin as a whole are not described, visible lesions on the body are described only partially. The clothes and the position of the corpses are described very superficially.
* No forensic survey of the scene of the incident was carried out, photos were uninformative, closer in execution to artistic shooting than to criminalistic.
* The conclusions in the first five autopsy reports were copy/pasted:
    "... the death of Doroshenko (or Krivonischenko, Kolmogorova, Dyatlova, Slobodina) was caused by low temperature, as evidenced by swelling of the meninges, a sharp replenishment of the internal organs, overflow of dark blood of the heart cavities, the presence of Vishnevsky spots on the gastric mucosa, frostbite fingers of limbs ... ".
* In each of the nine acts, the expert indicates that pieces of internal organs were taken for histological examination, but only the last four have results in the criminal case - N. V. Thibeaux-Brignolle , A. S. Kolevatov , A. A. Zolotaryov and L. A. Dubinina. It can be assumed that the histology of the first five bodies was deliberately concealed, as it was clearly more informative than that of the bodies found two months later.
* In each of the nine autopsy reports, Vozrozhdenny writes that pieces of internal organs were taken for a forensic chemical study. But in the materials of the case there is not a single result of the forensic chemical test that should at least show the presence or absence of alcohol. There is more information in this fact - for alcohol presence are collected blood and urine. Vozrozhdenny indicates that parts of the internal organs were taken for the forensic chemical examination. This means that he sent the samples for a forensic chemical testing not only for alcohol, but also for the presence of poisons. 6. And finally, the location of livor mortis spots does not coincide with the position of some corpses at the time of their discovery. Rustem Slobodin and Yuri Doroshenko were found face down, and the expert described the livor mortis spots on the back of their bodies. Zinaida Kolmogorova has the same description, which, as stated in the examination certificate, was found lying on her side. There is controversy on this point.
In "Судебно-медицинское исследование тела Рустема Слободина. Незаданные вопросы и неполученные ответы..." ("Forensic examination of the body of Rustem Slobodin. Answers not received on questions not asked...") - scroll to the bottom, the author speculates that the medical examiner Vozrozhdenny mistook frostbite erythema for livor mortis. Article is citing the forensic bible at the time "Forensic medicine" 1953 by M. I. Rayski where there is no mentioning of frostbite erythema but on p. 233 it says that livor mortis in frozen cadavers change color when carried in a warm room from purple to light red, and then darken again. Same thing happens with frostbite erythema when defrosting a corpse. So the author of the article says "it is not surprising that the medical examiner Vozrozhdenny thought that he sees livor mortis spots".

Monika:
This theory has weak points.

     As „the location of rigor mortis spots does not coincide with the position of some corpses at the time of their discover“
 - I think the bodies were turned after death so that others could make sure if they were really dead and also be able to take their clothes.

       „Dyatlov group members have injuries sustained perhaps a day or two before the onset of death“
- If they had a fight before, they would certainly have wrote about it in their diary. On the contrary, it is evident from the diary as well as photos that a good friendship ruled there.

gypsy:

--- Quote from: Monika on April 08, 2019, 11:59:57 PM ---- If they had a fight before, they would certainly have wrote about it in their diary. On the contrary, it is evident from the diary as well as photos that a good friendship ruled there.

--- End quote ---

The absence of evidence of the fight in the diary is not an evidence that the fight did not happen. We should stick to evidence when there is inconsistency with written or spoken statements. Let's wait for further details.

Nigel Evans:
From memory it was clear (bits of clothing and even flesh?) that someone had fallen down the cedar quite badly. Given Yuri K's burns he is the obvious candidate for falling, becoming concussed on landing for long enough to burn his hands or legs. Else it was something more "exotic".

Angel1:
I agree with the female Russian criminologist who believes it was murder.  The nature of the injuries indicate a fight.  But then it becomes by whom?  I think the autopsy reports were purposefully edited.  Until you get the true complete one the speculation will be never ending.  That foot long bruise on Zina's side.  Who know really when they died?  Ratikin's book isn't in English and the translations seem very wordy and meandering.  I wish there was a concise interview with him. 

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