Theories Discussion > General Discussion

The Instinct of Self Preservation

<< < (2/8) > >>

nothing here

nothing here

Jean Daniel Reuss:

--- Quote from: GlennM on September 18, 2022, 07:48:13 AM ---                    Reply #3
.................That would be the panic phase. Soon after, panic is replaced by cold induced lethargy. They walked to the woods.We know the rest.

--- End quote ---

You, GlennM, you fall into the error of Lupos (= Gunter Wolf) who beside meteorological and thermal considerations quite estimable,
makes a confusion between the 9 hikers and psychologically fragile personalities.

 the medically defined "stress response" according to ICD-10-WHO 2019 (F43.0). F43.0 -> Acute stress reaction
i.e. those who :
" gained the clear realization that their death is imminent develops the "stress response".
The consequence of this is consciousness narrowing, limited attention, the inability to process stimuli, disorientation and escape reactions
Reaction to severe stress, and adjustment disorders

In a simplified way, it is the case (but you can imagine it) of the horse that falls into the barbed wire.

But the case of the 9 hikers corresponds to an exactly opposite mental structure.

The dialogue has been impossible :
I wrote : "From what we know about the characters of the 9 hikers, thanks to the website, this argument is not convincing."
Lupos --> "My opinion about your hypothesis is that your hypothesis does not convince me."

Dyatlov had his weaknesses but he was competent in his field. He had carefully selected and chosen his 7 comrades for their strength of character, judging that they would never panic under any circumstances.

As for Zolotariyov, if he survived several years of an intense and deadly war, it is obviously due to luck, but it is also because he knew how to react with speed and lucidity to concrete mortal dangers such as German machine gun fire or shells from the 152 calibre.

By choosing to leave voluntarily in this winter hike of category 3, the 9 hikers wanted to to prove their practical knowledge, but also to prove, to themselves and to everyone else if necessary, let's say it simply in one word, their courage.

--- Quote from: Charles on September 18, 2022, 10:30:01 AM ---                    Reply #4
 I sailed a lot in winter in North Atlantic when I was a student, we sometime experienced a luffing start or a surge start, we never panicked... in the middle of storms in January offshore in North Atlantic..

--- End quote ---
I would go so far as to say that this idea of panic is absurd.

The example cited by Charle is excellent.

It is those who voluntarily choose to leave on a small boat in winter on the North Atlantic.

They all know that there are risks because they all know that there are often shipwrecks "body and soul".

They are not suicidal and yet they choose to go on adventures that can end badly!

(Everything is possible but the worst is not certain)

When the storm breaks, all those on board will see their mental strength increased tenfold to fight to the end, taking intelligent and sometimes complicated measures (which I don't know, because I am rubbish in navigation) to stay alive.

This mental structure, which exists only in some human beings to varying degrees, apparently, GlennM, you do not understand it.

If I understand the lengthy responses to my post, then the hikers did not leave the tent in a panic, nor did they experience panic which induced them to abandon the tent on 1079. They may have been startled, aggravated and feeling a sense of urgency because show collapsed their shelter and started to squeeze them between the canvas roof and floor. The result is that cooler heads( no pun intended) prevailed and the evacuation to the forest was methodical. I submit it was also voluntary as opposed to coerced. This necessitates the tent being there all along and not in the woods. It also supposes that ruffians did not make the hikers leave the tent. There is not a single shred of evidence to indicate they, the hikers were molested. There is some pretty clever speculation though. I believe MDGross did a positive thing by raising the question of panic. The orderliness of them tent interior, the orderliness of the departing footprints and the understandable logic of a group attempting a return to the tent while another group sought shelter deeper in the woods speaks to reason, not emotion. Since nobody has come up with a better explanation than the snow slip compelling the nine to leave camp, I`ll stick with that, but will change my mind when evidence replaces speculation. Then again, won't we all?

Hi MDGross

I've read a lot of the other foreign forums. Some links have lead me to wilder places than on here.

1.There is a lot of research and speculation regarding Zolotaryov but nothing concrete. It's a shame you can't get the pages to auto translate as there's a wealth of information.

2.As far as I understand the Wolverine hypothesis, it didn't attack the group. That is not what is being put forward and depending on other observations of the Wolverine it will spray like a skunk in extreme situations but this may be incorrect. For me , if the Wolverine can spray, it explains the moment of exiting the tent and the decision to leave the tent , without much panic afterwards. 

3. As for the snow slide,slip, avalanche , there is an account of some other hiker's being caught in a similar situation. In fact, I remember 2 . Both were similar and involved wind and the build up of snow around the tent. In one of the accounts the tent was failing and they chose to evacuate and head back down to safety not knowing if they would make it. In the other, they fought to stop the build up of snow on the tent as it drifted but were losing the battle. There was fear and panic in both stories and it was luck that saved the day. The first group , near death from exposure stumbled on the base camp and were saved. The second account if my memory is correct, managed to stop the complete collapse of the tent from the snow slip and avoid suffocation whilst weathering out the storm. The testimony of both survivors expressed panic and fear and their choices were made not so much on what  how to survive but the least likely to end in their demise given the circumstances.( Although I think there were deaths in one of the accounts). It all depends on the conditions at the time i suppose. Wind, darkness, not sure of where they actually pitched the tent etc. All those things could make a difference to the decision to leave the tent and not wait to see if worse was to follow. I , personally can imagine them on that ridge,  night time and an amount of accumulated snow has built up above the tent. This snow could have been powdery and blown away in the following days. When they say the searchers found no sign of an avalanche ,maybe it's because there wasn't one in the traditional sense. 

To cut the tent in order to exit it shows some kind of panic at that moment in time. To gather themselves and  walk down the slope shows they couldn't go back to the tent to retrieve anything....that means that it's worse to go back to the tent and better to walk to the wood.

All I've got is,

A. Someone is pointing a gun at them.( not sticks)

B. Its something natural to the environment, snow , snow slip/slide, wind or beast.


[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Go to full version