Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Tragic military accident
Star man:
Hi folks,
I am new to this forum and also to the Dyatlov pass incident. I found a documentary covering the incident about a week ago and after watching it felt that even though this happened a very long time ago it wasn't right that the families and friends of the 9 hikers still didn't have a reasonable explanation for what had happened that night. So I read the case files, autopsy reports, diaries, and analysed the photographs as well as watching several documentaries and radio interviews with researchers of the case. Anyway after reading through most of the standard theories and trying to piece all the information together I found myself thinking that the scenario that seems to fit most of the facts was that this incident was a tragic military accident. I am sure that this is not the first time this has been proposed. But this is what I think may have happened that night.
in the late 1950s early 1960s the US were developing and testing a new tactical nuclear weapon. A low yield high radiation device commonly refered to as a Neutron Bomb. It is likely that USSR were also developing and testing similar weapon types around that time. These weapons are designed to stop advancing armies, killing people, whilst minimising damage to buildings and allowing an area to be quickly reoccupied afterwards. If you wanted to test such a weapon somewhere you would probably look for a place that was very isolated, somewhere devoid of most animal and plant life, somewhere where nobody goes. Kholat Syakhl "dead mountain" sounds like it would meet the criteria for such a test. Even the Mansi didn't tend to go there. The military would have probably checked that nobody had lodged a planned route that took them near the test site on the night of the test. The Dyatlov group however had not followed their planned route and this was probably the decision that led them to their unfortunate deaths.
So on the 1st Feb 1959 the group had made camp. At some point during the night they probably noticed military activity in the air space near their camp as aircraft flew around the test site preparing for the test of the weapons. This may have been what prompted some of fhe group to grab their cameras go outside and start trying to snap some photographs.
When the test was started and the first neutron bomb was detonated there would have been an intense flash of thermal and ionising radiation. Anyone within 500 metres of this detonation could have sustained 3rd degree burns to exposed skin and potential blindness if they had been staring at the heat flash. A fire ball would begin to expand out from the point of detonation and this would be visible for miles as a glowing orange ball in the sky. Some of the witnesses from other hiking groups claim seeing glowing orange orbs and these were 50km away from the Dyatlov group. It's unlikely that normal ordinance would be visable as orange orbs from 50km but a detonation of a low yield (several kilo tonne ) device would create fire ball that was viable from a fair distance.
The heat flash would have been followed by a shock wave. Now this shock wave would be capable of destroying normal civilian buildings up to About 600 metres away, but would probably not cause significant damage to people. I suspect that if it was a neutron bomb that caused this incident than the Dyatlov group were somewhat further away that 600 metres ans may have been over 1km away. Anyone within 900 metres of the detonation would have received a significant lethal dose of radiation capable of killing them within 1 to 2 days. Those within 1600 metres would probably still have received a significant dose that could kill them within several weeks. Those within 900 metres would start to feel ill, disorientated and confused fairly quickly.
After the shock wave there would have been the wind blast. This would have been significant and capable of lifting People into the air throwing them a considerable distance. If there were anyone outside the tent that night the wind blast could have knocked them flying and they could have sustained significant injuries, possible fatal. The wind blast would likely flatten the tent and knock those inside around like someone shaking a bag of walnuts and this could have caused some minor injuries. It would certainly have sparked panick and possible shock amongst the group initiating a frantic bid to escape the tent. So the group make it out of the tent in a state of panick and turn to witness a huge fire ball in the sky. It is likely that following the first detonation there was a second and maybe a third and possibly more depending on the number of boms they were testing that night. I'm not sure how many orange orbs were reported by the hikers from the other groups around the area. If there were further detonations, it may have persuaded the group that staying at their camp site presented a significant and immediate threat to their lives and in a state of panic their made their way down the slope to put some distance between themselves and the nuclear detonations. They may have even thought that ww3 had started. It's also possible that they may have already been dead before they even left the tent having received a lethal dose of radiation. They just didnt know it. After making their way down the slope they are now faced with the next biggest threat to their lives. The cold. They get to the cedar tree and make a fire in an attempt to keep warm. They also try to use the tree to see what is going on near their camp site. After a short while some of the group start to succumb to the cold. The surviving members try to use their clothes to keep warm and then three of the group decide to go back to the camp site and retrieve their cold weather gear, but they never make it.
It is likely that the military arrive at the site well before the search and rescue party. They won't want details of their weapon tests becoming public knowledge so they interfere with the scene. They may have also taken the bodies and performed their own examinations as this would present them with an opportunity to study the effects of their new weapon on the human body. The bodies may have been altered, to remove parts for further study or any clues that the people had been exposed to these weapons.
When the search party found the site it is,likely that the scene had already been tampered with, and some or all the bodies moved/returned to their original positions. The ravine four may have been planted there. If they had been outside the tent when the wind blast hit them they could have sustained the lethal injuries then. It is also possible they did make the den in the ravine and were killed by a subsequent blast. I think the key thing here is that if this was a military test and the military got to the scene first then you can't assume all of the details of the scene are accurate and reflect the true sequence of events.
Anyway that's a very quick summary of my thoughts.
sarapuk:
Well some kind of military event is one of the much debated topics. It has been considered many times over the years that maybe it was a military accident and maybe involved Nuclear Weapons. I personally dont subscribe to this particular theory but it is still worth investigating. One problem with the theory is that when the search parties were searching the area for 2 months or so there were no reports that suggest that a military accident could have happened.
Nigel Evans:
Yes my view is either natural electro magnetic phenomena or military accident (MA) with the former my favourite by some margin.
Some thoughts :-
1. They were only off course by 1km. I don't think they were lost so why they elected to leave the sanctuary of the forest for the higher ground in those weather conditions is part of the mystery.
2. The ravine four weren't killed by high explosives or nuclear. Both produce a supersonic blast wave that always bursts lungs which were not observed at the autopsies.
3. The indications are that the Soviet hierarchy did not understand the cause :-
* They maintained an approx 30 man strong investigation team on site, supplied by helicopter for months at huge expense. This included a KGB team. Some of the dead had worked in sensitive areas and defection was a concern. If they already knew what had happened they could have waited until the summer to find the bodies.
* In March the first five found were buried with large public funerals in open coffins with no interference from the state even though the complexions of the deceased created much discussion. In May Ivanov was summoned to Moscow to report to the Central Committee his findings. This resulted in the order to coverup. So there was a significant delay (circa two months) before the state decided to act.4. After Russia had opened up in the 1990's we have interviews with Ivanov and his superior Okishev. Ivanov of course is the oracle for what the investigation had found. He uses the terms "fire orbs" (repeats this 7 times) and "directed heat rays".
Combining the above with the long standing reputation this region has for golden orbs etc, it's natural electro magnetic events imo.
Star man:
There are still a lot of unanswered questions but if the government had been involved then it becomes difficult to filter out facts from misinformation.
In terms of the shock wave from a low yield weapon this would be significantly toned down from a standard weapon and would also depend on distance from detonation. The wind blast could still have thrown people such that their injuries would be consistent with impact injuries. Ie as if they fell some distance.
In terms of the investigation it is likely that any knowledge of the tests would be limited to those in key positions and that not all government departments would be allowed access to the information. Thus those who new may have allowed investigation to continue up to the point where the investigation started to home in on the truth.
I thought the Dyatlov group logged camp site for that night was about 9 miles away?
I am interested in the electromagnetic theory. How would such a scenario play out.
Nigel Evans:
as if they fell some distance.It's difficult to explain the injury profile as falling some distance, where are the broken limbs? Falling into deep snow might do it but the snow wasn't that deep that night? They were found under it not on top of it. True they could have fallen elsewhere and been placed in the ravine.
I thought the Dyatlov group logged camp site for that night was about 9 miles away?No they were roughly back on course on reaching the cedar.
I am interested in the electromagnetic theory. How would such a scenario play out.Ah i'm glad you asked....
1. Snowstorms create ionisation horizontally in a similar manner to how thunderstorms create it vertically.2. Free electrons in swirling air creates microwaves.3. Microwaves create ozone and nitrogen oxides, typically nitrogen dioxide - NO2.4. Humans exposed to NO2 suffer from silo fillers disease - nitric acid in lung. NO2 also slowly converts to nitric acid on the skin which interacts with the keratin to turn it yellow and orange. N.B. Yuri D displayed evidence of a pulmonary edema and had dark orange skin at his funeral (but less in the morgue). As did others e.g. Zina and Lyudmila. N.B. this is also seen with the Chivruay victims. Penetrating the deep snow to pitch a tent creates an earth point in an otherwise insulated landscape creating a concentration of NO2 at/in the tent (assuming that the nitrogen oxides are ionised and attracted to earth). N.B. the NO2 theory has other explanations - decomposing grasses under the snow "silage" and nitrogen oxides from rocket fuel.
5. The ionised air above the mountain creates lightning which it has been observed can create "rollers" - http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html which are a form of ball lightning (BL). One of the books i've read mentions that at a funeral one of the investigating party confided in a relative that they had seen rollers coming down the mountain one night.
6. One theory to explain BL is that it is a plasma of electrons rotating at relativistic speeds. This results in the object demonstrating large mass and momentum.7. This gives you injuries consistent with an automobile accident. Further it's observed that BL can interact with dielectrics and conductors in curious ways, e.g. BL passing down a street can rip internal house wiring through walls and throw it into the street presumably via electro motive force. So the ravine injuries could have an explanation here as well. There is of course some overlap with Lyudmila's injuries and cattle mutilations which have EM explanations..
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