Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Specific detail - Ignat Ryagin
Nigel Evans:
Just been reading this :-Meanwhile the UPI Sports Club realized that they lacked the itinerary of the group. With great effort relatives of the missing tourists managed to find a man who knew the details of their expedition—Ignat Ryagin, an executive at the Ural Copper Exploration Company. He had given Igor Dyatlov detailed classified maps of the area, perhaps in exchange for a job to perform. Ryagin's information sped up the beginning of the search and rescue operations.
Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (p. 4). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.
and
When developing the route of the future trip, Igor Dyatlov spoke with Ignat Ryagin, a deputy chief of a local exploration company. He provided the group with classified maps (large scale maps with the size of objects more than 1/1,000,000 of their size on the ground were treated as secret) and an official travel document; the latter helped them to get assistance from local authorities. Apparently, the Dyatlov group was to perform a certain assignment for Ryagin.
Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (p. 10). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.
So we have :-
* Igor is given classified maps and a mission.
* A highly experienced alpinist and WW2 veteran joins the group shortly before they commence (from memory pushing another candidate off the list).
* Then they divert from the planned route and elect to make a very uncomfortable camp near the top of Kholat Syakhl.
* Then they die in mysterious circumstances with Semyon found with a camera around his neck and a (disappeared) notebook. Nearly everyone in the group of nine had a camera but half of these are missing?
* The local police investigator Tempalov is quickly replaced by another from head office Ivanov.
* By mid March the Ivanov is openly discussing fire orbs (presumably from unseen film).
* Ivanov is summoned to Moscow.
* On his return Ivanov is changed and advises people to cease discussing fire orbs.
* Then evidence is confiscated and the police investigators are ordered to invent a cover story and present it face to face to distressed relatives a task they state much later they found difficult.
Loose}{Cannon:
--- Quote ---Igor is given classified maps and a mission.
--- End quote ---
What map in 1959 communist USSR wouldn't be "classified" to one level or another? Its not like they were for sale on the open market where those scummy Americans and their allies can learn detailed information about their countries topography and god knows what else. Just because the US had the U2 doesn't mean they were going to serve this information up on a silver platter on the open market..... thats stupid. IT was a very hot 'cold' war....... remember?
Furthermore. These hikers are in the communist party. All devotion and complete commitment to the party is required to be a 'good, communist, especially when your a young lad attending the communist state technical school where they were likely hand picked for a promising future in a high-tech industry like enriching plutonium and long distance communications.... do you even remember the space race?
This is a government collage, not Cambridge or UCLA, and as you know, several of the victims had already graduated in their field of study and had taken up positions like enriching uranium, and a contamination/containment/cleanup specialist. IF you bother to read their diaries, you will see things like how Yuri Yudin was collecting geological rock specimens the morning he headed back...... They were all doing this, and in the case files it is noted the rock samples found in their bags. Its not in any way unusual for the government to utilize its state operated university, staff, and students to gather geological information (rock samples) in effort to better understand the mineral deposits of seldom explored rural areas, especially when at this time the Kremlin was heavily seeking to expand their domestic oil production and find new sources of things like uranium or any other valuable deposits.
Given my above statements, what would be so unusual about the university staff, students, and former graduates collaborating and performing tasks for the communist party and to aid in its agenda? These 'kids' were but one spoke in the communist wheel and will be utilized accordingly.
One has to wonder the consequences for distributing, or even creating something that would be valuable to the enemy in 1959 communist ussr. Everything was secret, or guarded information to one extent or another. nose1 The active students of the group were on a geological/mineral collecting side-assignment, this is well known. Think of it as a "Hey, we need rock/mineral samples from this area to aid in the party agenda. Pick up some samples while your out there like a good little Commie."
--- Quote ---A highly experienced alpinist and WW2 veteran joins the group shortly before they commence (from memory pushing another candidate off the list)
--- End quote ---
I dont think thats the case at all..... there WAS a 10th member that missed the train. No conspiracy needed.
--- Quote ---Then they divert from the planned route and elect to make a very uncomfortable camp near the top of Kholat Syakhl.
--- End quote ---
Everything is a conspiracy for you isn't it Nigel? Your talking about 1 mile, and would it be unheard of to get a little off-course in the wilderness and take corrective action? He over-shot the pass on their right obscured by tall trees by MAYBE 1/2mi. When the mistake was noticed, they made a storage cache and traversed the ridge in a line that would exactly intersect the original route at the north side if the mountain, and everything after climbing the ridge would be down-hill skiing unobstructed by this forest.
--- Quote ---Then they die in mysterious circumstances with Semyon found with a camera around his neck and a (disappeared) notebook.?
--- End quote ---
Oh, they mysteriously died alright, Im not challenging you on that. However, there is nothing "mysterious" about one of them having a camera.
--- Quote --- Nearly everyone in the group of nine had a camera but half of these are missing?
--- End quote ---
Seriously? 7 cameras and 9 people.... do the math.
--- Quote ---The local police investigator Tempalov is quickly replaced by another from head office Ivanov.
--- End quote ---
And? They had not one but TWO incompetent 'investigators'. Have you seen the lack of detail and utter decimation of the scene in which the first 5 were found? shock1
--- Quote ---By mid March the Ivanov is openly discussing fire orbs (presumably from unseen film).
--- End quote ---
A pathetic man inventing explanations from thin air because he was incompetent and had no clue what happened..... due to his own ignorance. "(presumably from unseen film)" More speculation based on zero evidence. This is what you do when you have a need to invent false facts in efforts to support a weak narrative.
--- Quote ---Ivanov is summoned to Moscow.
On his return Ivanov is changed and advises people to cease discussing fire orbs.
--- End quote ---
Lemme guess..... more conspiracy. Perhaps he got a royal ass-chewing for being a window-licking crayon-eating incompetent investigator that couldn't solve where rain comes from? whist1
--- Quote ---Then evidence is confiscated and the police investigators are ordered to invent a cover story and present it face to face to distressed relatives a task they state much later they found difficult.
--- End quote ---
Meh, perhaps...... But I guess parts of what you state above (once again), the burden of proof is on you. wink1
I hate having to make long posts like this just to shred a conspiracy theory. bang1
gypsy:
All mentioned above can easily be explained as blatant incompetence of the investigators. That is exactly how the (criminal) justice worked in the Soviet union. To the police chief or local prosecutor, it was always more "comfortable" not to have unsolved homicide/manslaughter in their jurisdiction. I know from personal account how such cases (all dead, no witness, no apparent culprit) were approached. If DPI was a traffic accident, it would be closed down in as "just an accident" even if one of the involved was speeding with no lights at night. Nobody survived, nobody saw anything, no cameras and local prosecutor and investigators can claim their bonuses for being good communists and keeping the crime rate low.
Nigel Evans:
--- Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on February 10, 2019, 09:15:55 AM ---
--- Quote ---Igor is given classified maps and a mission.
--- End quote ---
What map in 1959 communist USSR wouldn't be "classified" to one level or another? Its not like they were for sale on the open market where those scummy Americans and their allies can learn detailed information about their countries topography and god knows what else. Just because the US had the U2 doesn't mean they were going to serve this information up on a silver platter on the open market..... thats stupid. IT was a very hot 'cold' war....... remember?
Furthermore. These hikers are in the communist party. All devotion and complete commitment to the party is required to be a 'good, communist, especially when your a young lad attending the communist state technical school where they were likely hand picked for a promising future in a high-tech industry like enriching plutonium and long distance communications.... do you even remember the space race?
This is a government collage, not Cambridge or UCLA, and as you know, several of the victims had already graduated in their field of study and had taken up positions like enriching uranium, and a contamination/containment/cleanup specialist. IF you bother to read their diaries, you will see things like how Yuri Yudin was collecting geological rock specimens the morning he headed back...... They were all doing this, and in the case files it is noted the rock samples found in their bags. Its not in any way unusual for the government to utilize its state operated university, staff, and students to gather geological information (rock samples) in effort to better understand the mineral deposits of seldom explored rural areas, especially when at this time the Kremlin was heavily seeking to expand their domestic oil production and find new sources of things like uranium or any other valuable deposits.
Given my above statements, what would be so unusual about the university staff, students, and former graduates collaborating and performing tasks for the communist party and to aid in its agenda? These 'kids' were but one spoke in the communist wheel and will be utilized accordingly.
One has to wonder the consequences for distributing, or even creating something that would be valuable to the enemy in 1959 communist ussr. Everything was secret, or guarded information to one extent or another. nose1 The active students of the group were on a geological/mineral collecting side-assignment, this is well known. Think of it as a "Hey, we need rock/mineral samples from this area to aid in the party agenda. Pick up some samples while your out there like a good little Commie."
You make a fair point if with far too many words...
--- Quote ---A highly experienced alpinist and WW2 veteran joins the group shortly before they commence (from memory pushing another candidate off the list)
--- End quote ---
I dont think thats the case at all..... there WAS a 10th member that missed the train. No conspiracy needed.
It's an anomaly imo.
--- Quote ---Then they divert from the planned route and elect to make a very uncomfortable camp near the top of Kholat Syakhl.
--- End quote ---
Everything is a conspiracy for you isn't it Nigel? Your talking about 1 mile, and would it be unheard of to get a little off-course in the wilderness and take corrective action? He over-shot the pass on their right obscured by tall trees by MAYBE 1/2mi. When the mistake was noticed, they made a storage cache and traversed the ridge in a line that would exactly intersect the original route at the north side if the mountain, and everything after climbing the ridge would be down-hill skiing unobstructed by this forest.
No way he overshot, they went up there on purpose.
--- Quote ---Then they die in mysterious circumstances with Semyon found with a camera around his neck and a (disappeared) notebook.?
--- End quote ---
Oh, they mysteriously died alright, Im not challenging you on that. However, there is nothing "mysterious" about one of them having a camera.
--- Quote --- Nearly everyone in the group of nine had a camera but half of these are missing?
--- End quote ---
Seriously? 7 cameras and 9 people.... do the math.
This website only lists 5 cameras?
--- Quote ---The local police investigator Tempalov is quickly replaced by another from head office Ivanov.
--- End quote ---
And? They had not one but TWO incompetent 'investigators'. Have you seen the lack of detail and utter decimation of the scene in which the first 5 were found? shock1
The instruction not to tamper with the tent site reached the rescue group too late (just by seveal hours?). It's unfortunate but not incompetent.
--- Quote ---By mid March the Ivanov is openly discussing fire orbs (presumably from unseen film).
--- End quote ---
A pathetic man inventing explanations from thin air because he was incompetent and had no clue what happened..... due to his own ignorance. "(presumably from unseen film)" More speculation based on zero evidence. This is what you do when you have a need to invent false facts in efforts to support a weak narrative.Inexperienced lawyer Vladimir Korotaev was dismissed from the case. Prosecutor-criminalist Lev Ivanov, the most skillful professional in advanced investigative techniques from the Sverdlovsk Prosecution Office, joined the investigation. The inclusion of Ivanov in the brigade of investigators indicated that the prosecution found it difficult to explain the tourists' deaths.
Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (pp. 5-6). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.
--- Quote ---Ivanov is summoned to Moscow.
On his return Ivanov is changed and advises people to cease discussing fire orbs.
--- End quote ---
Lemme guess..... more conspiracy. Perhaps he got a royal ass-chewing for being a window-licking crayon-eating incompetent investigator that couldn't solve where rain comes from? whist1 In mid-March, Ivanov was called away to Moscow for reasons that he would not disclose to others in his office. Upon his return, Karelin and others noticed a pronounced change in his demeanor. “[W]e could not recognize him when he returned,” Karelin said years later. “He didn’t mention murder or spheres anymore. And he’d often advise us to ‘hold our tongues.’ ” In a 1990 letter to the Leninsky Put newspaper, Ivanov revealed that the regional Communist Party committee had instructed him not to pursue the connection between the strange lights in the sky and the hikers’ deaths. He wrote that during the Cold War, “Such topics were prohibited in order to prevent the slightest possibility of disclosing data on missile and nuclear techniques.” If Ivanov had up to that point been entertaining his own theories of murder and UFOs, he was told to set those theories aside for the good of his country.
Eichar, Donnie. Dead Mountain (p. 205). Chronicle Books LLC. Kindle Edition.
--- Quote ---Then evidence is confiscated and the police investigators are ordered to invent a cover story and present it face to face to distressed relatives a task they state much later they found difficult.
--- End quote ---
Meh, perhaps...... But I guess parts of what you state above (once again), the burden of proof is on you. wink1 Okishev says in his interview that he trouble sleeping at night.
I hate having to make long posts like this just to shred a conspiracy theory. bang1
Rolls eyes - rolleyes1 rolleyes1 rolleyes1
--- End quote ---
Loose}{Cannon:
--- Quote ---No way he overshot, they went up there on purpose.
--- End quote ---
Burden of proof my friend.
--- Quote ---The instruction not to tamper with the tent site reached the rescue group too late (just by seveal hours?). It's unfortunate but not incompetent.
--- End quote ---
After the investigator arrived etc....... shitshow of an investigation. No doubt about it.
--- Quote ---Inexperienced lawyer Vladimir Korotaev was dismissed from the case.
--- End quote ---
See what I mean?
--- Quote ---Prosecutor-criminalist Lev Ivanov, the most skillful professional in advanced investigative techniques from the Sverdlovsk Prosecution Office, joined the investigation.
--- End quote ---
Bias opinion of an author with a narrative to push. whist1
--- Quote ---Okishev says in his interview that he trouble sleeping at night.
--- End quote ---
Guilt and shame are hard things to forget about ones self? They make pills for that.
Are you just going to quote books that are fundamentally biased and often flat out wrong?
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