Theories Discussion > General Discussion

The "Window" in the cedar tree

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GlennM:
Such rumblings! Here is a bit of a diversion.  Nurse Solter claimed to receive and wash the deceased. What I am unclear on is what happened next. Were they transported out for burial, or were they returned to the forest for rediscovery? If the latter is true, that is telling.

Ehtnisba:

--- Quote from: Charles on September 24, 2022, 04:00:48 AM ---Hello Manti


--- Quote from: Manti on September 23, 2022, 07:41:24 PM ---I think it's quite possible that they were "lost" for the last days.

They climbed up to the pass, then descended back down to Auspiya instead of continuing on to Lozva. This means losing a day.
--- End quote ---

Yes but they descended back to leave a part of the charge at the storage. It was a rational decision. And progression was easier after loosing weight to carry. It was a very legit decision. It was not being lost in terms of geography.  Maybe lost in terms of strength and stamina, but not lost as they could no longer orient themselves.


--- Quote from: Manti on September 23, 2022, 07:41:24 PM ---And they had no idea where they were.
--- End quote ---

No, they knew their position. Perfectly. They set up the storage at the correct position to easily find it after the loop when walking back from Otorten.


--- Quote from: Manti on September 23, 2022, 07:41:24 PM ---And then they went to the Lozva valley while their storage was in the Auspiya valley.
--- End quote ---

Hard to believe it was by mistake. They were above the pass. When facing the slope, the storage was on their right, and they left tracks of a nine hikers group, fresh tracks from the previous day. And even if a storm erased the tracks, the direction was easy: to the right. Reaching the storage was not a complex maneuver, it was easy.

And if they were in a storm with low visibility why walk to the unknown? The partial footprints went straight to the cedar, no curve as if they deviated, straight path.


--- Quote from: Manti on September 23, 2022, 07:41:24 PM ---I think this was either a mistake, or they couldn't go to Auspiya for some reason.
--- End quote ---

But the storage was at the same distance and downslope as well. If they split, two groups would have arrived at the same time at the cedar and at the storage. The one at the storage finding fire wood, sausages, shoes, torches... The storage was not miles away, not on the other side of high mountains, not at walking days of distance, it was just nearby. And at the location of their previous camp.



The only "action" needed to reach the storage was walking down the slope "to the right". Because the tent was at an higher altitude than the pass, they couldn't miss the Auspiya valley and the storage, it was the easiest task to perform. They face down the slope, they walk to the right, they get to the storage in a few minutes. Because, actually, we talk about missing the Auspiya valley... indeed! They walked in the opposite direction... they missed a valley!

So we have again to destroy them as human beings... to deprive them of all qualities, to the level of forgetting the right and the left or even of loosing memory of their equipment left at the nearby storage. And suddenly giving these qualities back to light fire in a storm, to build a den, to cooperate, work, etc.

Because they were not on flat ground, they had the slope as a help to guide them: coming back on their steps was at right hand when facing down the slope. With the slope as a guide, they could make it by night, in a whiteout, even blindfolded...

We understand better if we rotate the maps:





And the question is why were the hikers allegedly climbing in the cedar to find fire wood and dying of hypothermia in the Lozva valley while their storage was waiting in the Auspiya valley ? Supposing that Nature didn't want them to stay or to come back at their tent: why choose left and not right ?

--- End quote ---

The rotated map helps a lot. Even in fog is to the right. I am a skier and in fog this what I need to remember being at higher bald place - left right or straight. It works and have been to say so lost. Following this logic never failed me. Once in tree zone the visibility rises and you bump into so so initial location and familiar terrain.
Not to sound harsh but you must be braindead to not go from where u have come. With all 9 braindeaders the picture of "let go towards there in the unknown cause we love Darwin award" does not fit reality. This is insult to be called "their own decision".

ilahiyol:

--- Quote from: Star man on October 18, 2019, 04:21:36 AM ---They may have used some of the branches for fire wood, but overall the evidence seems to point to them climbing the tree to find safety IMO.

So if this is the case then what would climbing a tree provide safety from?  Humans or animals , possibly fear of avalanche?

Regards
Star man

--- End quote ---
Especially if people are in the woods when it's dark and cold and they're running from something. They either climb trees or look for a place to hide under the snow or soil. The two Yuri were naked and needed a fire to keep warm. That's why they tried to start a fire. Then they realized that unknown coercive force was coming upon them. I think they both wanted to hide by climbing a tree. Their fingers froze because they were partially naked. A naked person gets hypothermia in a much shorter time at -20 degrees. Their body temperature drops a lot, and this is most evident in the toes and fingers. I think the two Yuri were attacked while they were sleeping in the tent.

Tony:
The "window" is weird because a few of the investigators stated that none of the branches broken from the cedar were used in the fire. Instead, the hikers relied on smaller fir branches they had collected in and around the area of the cedar. It's possible that they meant to use them but never had the chance. It is also stated that the broken branches came from the windward side of the cedar and not the side that one would expect to collect branches (leeward side). One of the theories is that the hiker that climbed the cedar did so to clear a "window" to see back to the tent or get a birdseye view of the area. There are photos on this site that show that it is possible to see back to the tent from the cedar "window." But because the moon that night would not have been visible until 2:00 a.m. it is hard to believe that any of the hikers would have been able to see anymore that a few feet (or even inches) in front of them. I don't think they climbed the cedar to see back to the tent but also don't believe they climbed the cedar for wood (doesn't make sense to climb and collect wood from the windward side). It is another odd event in a string of odd occurences that happened that night.

Ziljoe:

--- Quote from: Tony on January 27, 2023, 12:54:35 PM ---The "window" is weird because a few of the investigators stated that none of the branches broken from the cedar were used in the fire. Instead, the hikers relied on smaller fir branches they had collected in and around the area of the cedar. It's possible that they meant to use them but never had the chance. It is also stated that the broken branches came from the windward side of the cedar and not the side that one would expect to collect branches (leeward side). One of the theories is that the hiker that climbed the cedar did so to clear a "window" to see back to the tent or get a birdseye view of the area. There are photos on this site that show that it is possible to see back to the tent from the cedar "window." But because the moon that night would not have been visible until 2:00 a.m. it is hard to believe that any of the hikers would have been able to see anymore that a few feet (or even inches) in front of them. I don't think they climbed the cedar to see back to the tent but also don't believe they climbed the cedar for wood (doesn't make sense to climb and collect wood from the windward side). It is another odd event in a string of odd occurences that happened that night.

--- End quote ---

My recollection of reading about the branches is different. I thought they said there was branches/ wood on the ground that could have been used. There were some branches broken but not used and hanging on lower branches , those with needles . The hikers reported the day before, in their diaries that the wood was poor for burning.

To break off 80mm branches would be the easiest option to find dryer wood, especially without an axe . Like wise, the windward branches would be dryer from the wind? Maybe, perhaps ?

It seems logical to break the wood and ceder would be the best wood. Would it not? So many woulds / woods....

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