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Author Topic: Lyudmila Dubinina's Journal  (Read 15939 times)

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November 14, 2017, 11:53:55 AM
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Armide


Hi everyone! This is my first contribution to this forum, it's a translation of Dubinina's diary that I took from the transcript in Anna Matveyeva's book on the incident. I am in no ways a professional translator; I am a language student, but I am still prone to making mistakes. On top of that, please take this translation with a grain of salt as my edition of the book is in French, making this a French to English translation that itself is based on a Russian to French translation; some nuances maybe obscured or lost in translation. Any of my own notes on the translation or clarifications will be in [square brackets like these], except for the […] symbols which Matveyeva already had in her transcript (if you wanna blame anyone for censorship, blame her, not me! :P). Footnotes are at the end of the post. Please do contact me if you see any errors / need any clarification so as to avoid spreading misinformation :)

-----------------------------------------------------






[There are a bunch of resources other than the log of her travels to Otorten Mountain, this includes a few songs (most likely from the trip that she wrote down to keep as a souvenir), along with a few more touching notes including a list of books, German words to learn, and a to-do list. Quite heartbreaking to read.]

January 23rd. It's the last day of preparations, a crazy day! Starting at eleven, I went shopping to buy some knick-knacks. I got this crazy idea to buy a 5 meters of batiste1, which cost me 200 rubles [roughly $50]. I made my own bag at full speed and of course, I forgot my sweater at home. Everyone was taking care of their own things and we had a million things to sort out. Just before our departure, those willing to accompany us to the train arrived. We were very tight on time, but we arrived on time to the train station. It was a time for goodbyes; before the train left, we struck up a few songs.

Blinov's group has joined us in the train wagon and we all sang together.

The bass in Krotov's voice covered all of the other voices. This time, we sang a bunch of new songs with the help of Zolotaryov, the tour guide who was accompanying us on this hike. In the beginning, no one wanted him here because he was someone new, and then we decided that it was alright, anyways it was impossible to refuse. So that's how we ended up leaving with a group of ten people, as it was originally planned, since the administration department of the faculty didn't let Slavka2 leave with us.


January 24th. We arrived in Serov very much in ahead of time, and we weren't allowed to enter the train station with our backpacks. In the beginning, we settled ourselves outside the train station. The others began complaining about the head of budget — that means me— accusing me of pettiness and avarice. Unfortunately, this time we won't have the means to eat at the train station's café. We had a bit of an adventure: Yurka K. [Krivonischenko] got arrested, accused of fraud. He had this idea to go around the train station, chapka3 in hand, singing a song. We had to get him out of there.

Sometime later, accompanied by Blinov's group, we managed to sneak into the town's primary school. We had lunch there and got down to preparing our equipment. Then we accepted to talk to the younger children about athletic tourism. The stories about our past achievements and our equipment left them amazed, they didn't want to leave us. We didn't see the time pass until six o'clock and many of our new young friends accompany us to the train station. They were so attached to us, especially Zina [Kolmogorova], that they're in tears.

Once in the train, we sang at the top of our lungs for a while, sometimes accompanied by the mandolin. Then a young alcoholic lashed out at the boys, he accused them of having stolen a bottle of vodka. He demanded that they give it back by threatening to break their teeth. Eventually, realizing that he could neither prove nor gain anything, he let it go. Yurka [unclear which Yuri this is] came to see us, he sang with us for a while and then left again. We carried on singing and all of a sudden, without even realizing it, we found ourselves talking about love, more specifically about kisses. We were talking nonsense, of course, but everyone participated in the discussion with much passion; it was up to whoever could raise their voice the loudest to contradict the others. Sashka Kolevatov managed to have the last say, but he was probably repeating arguments that he had heard elsewhere.

We arrived in Ivdel in the middle of the night and we slept at the train station. We settled down in a corner, our group laid down on the tent unfolded on the ground. As for me, I kept watch. I took advantage of this time to sew the boots and copy down songs. [...] I managed to cope until three o'clock. All the others had already gone to sleep, except for Boria [person unclear, probably from Blinov's group] who stayed up late sewing but ended up going to sleep as well.

Jenka [person unclear, probably from Blinov's group] teases me from time to time, sometimes he even says hurtful things to me. Does he think I'm stupid? It's true that I like to add fuel to the fire myself, I had better hold my tongue.


January 25th. They woke me up without giving me time to recover. I told Rustik [Slobodin] that I wouldn't wash up, that the conditions were not ideal. He was fine with it. At that moment the bus arrived and we hurried to load everything onto it. Kolka Tibo [Thibeaux-Brignolles] was completely stuck between us and the ceiling. [...] We sang again, of course. My voice is completely hoarse from all the singing. Jenka continues to have a dig at me. What a snake! I'm starting to understand his little game, it's nothing new of course, but now I feel like I can see more clearly. And yet, Yurka [Matveyeva suggests this was a transcription error from Dubinina] is a benevolent person, at least if you judge him by his behavior. I'm going to stay true to myself.

Jenka and Zina sang "Ah! If your eyes weren't so blue…".

Once we arrived at the junction, the bus continued straight ahead and was had to pick us up an hour later. During that time, we moved forward on foot. It was pleasant to walk on this road by this nice weather. We fooled around by rolling around in the snow.

Whilst we were walking, there was a little incident: a car transporting some wood arriving in the direction opposite to us got stuck in the snow. The boys hurried to go help out, they managed to get it out of there, not without trouble. At that moment, the bus arrived and we packed ourselves in once again. The discuss this time revolved around happiness. Generally, our group was the most active in the debate. We tried to give a definition to happiness, but at the end of the day, everyone had their own.

We arrived in Vizhay around two o'clock. Blinov's group intends to continue further with the bus 41, but we will probably spend the night here. We had parted ways crying, we are all sad. Zina and I sang "Ah! If your eyes…" as a goodbye to Jenia. Anyways, I feel really down [or depressed, depending on how you interpret it].

We are very lucky. They're playing "Symphonie in Gold"4. We hurried to leave our luggage at the hotel and went to the cinema. The image was blurry but that didn't spoil any of our delight. Yura Krivo [Krivonischenko] is sitting next to me, he let out a small squeal of excitement and was making weird noises with his mouth. This was one of those little joys that is hard to express in words. What stunning music!

This movie cheered us all up. Igor Dyatlov was simply unrecognizable. He was trying to dance whilst humming "Oh! Jacky Joe".

Yura [again, unclear which Yuri she is describing] and I are responsible for the chores today. We want to cook some pasta on the stove but the fire is hard to get started, the wood is wet and the whole ordeal takes us a lot of time. We can finally start eating. At supper, a new discussion arises about the rights of boys and girls, about freedom, etc. In my opinion, this type of conversation leads to nothing. It's just an excuse to express our resentment openly. We went to bed late. We slept with two people per bed, except Yura Krivo and Sashka [Kolevatov? Zolotaryov?] who slept on the floor between the beds.


January 26th.
Early this morning Sashka [Kolevatov? Zolotaryov?] was numbed by the cold and declared that he had spent the night freezing. Zina and I slept very well. We went to the hotel cafeteria and then we returned to get ready. A car drove us to our next stop. We tried to sing, to talk about abstract topics, but we were all too cold. In the beginning, the places we drove past weren't very interesting; they were burnt forests.

Actually, we needed to arrive to the North-2 Settlement but night had already fallen and we decided to stop at point 41 at four-thirty. We were very well warmly welcomed and accommodated in a shack were some young people live. They are all contract workers, and there are only two women. As Igor noticed, they are all young, and some are even rather cute and interesting. I especially noticed a certain Ognev with a ginger beard, as a matter-of-fact they nickname him 'The Beard'. It's rare to meet people like him in such a hellhole. He's a real romantic, he's a geologist and is very open-minded. Almost all of them play the guitar. We watched three movies in a row with them, "V lyudyakh", "Zhivot Takoy Paren'" and "Zolotaya Simfoniya"5[Symphonie in Gold] once again. Again with this music!

In the beginning, we had separated into two groups: one group watched the movies and the other wrote in their journals; Rustik and Kolya [Thibeaux-Brignolles] talked about everything and nothing, of work, etc. I find them great, those guys.

There is a big difference between Rustik, Kolya, and Yura [Krivonischenko] who have finished their studies and us undergraduates. Their judgement is more mature, and much more intelligent than ours. My God, I won't even speak about my own!

After the movies we were all tired and wanted to go to sleep. Zina and I settle in on the bed with the metal bedspring. How dreamy! The boys all slept on the floor. I'm in a terrible mood and I know it'll last me another two days. I am not to be messed with.



January 27th. The temperature outside is -5 degrees [Celsius], it doesn't feel cold, the skis don't slide well. We have been preparing ourselves since this morning, and we start our route this today. Right now, we are waiting for on a horse that is supposed to carry our backpacks whilst we travel on skis. We're getting lucky.

Yura Yudin is sick. A nerve in his leg, actually a sciatica, and he's going home. Alright, now we're only nine. For the moment we are waiting and singing. Our hosts are strumming their guitar, and Rustik his mandolin. Heartbreaking. We are at the very limits of civilization. […] Actually, I really like the guitar, and I adore musicians. They guys are all great. We talked to Ognev. He knows lots of things; he's interesting to talk to and at the moment, he's talking to us about our route and a bunch of other things.

In my opinion, he's the most interesting of the lot. His ginger beard is very long, he's only twenty-seven, but you would think he's older. There's also Valia [short for Valentin] who plays the guitar really well (almost all of them play) to whom I said "I like you" as a joke6. Now they're almost all here and they sing accompanied by the guitar. The new songs that we've heard so far are great, we hope that Rustik will be able to sing them during the hike. We ask them a few words in Mansi.

Ia - stream
Vajenka - Female reindeer
Sokhta - a guide
Nian - bread
Ioun - house
Pisal - gun
Atim - there is no
Oli - there is
Son - truth
Vorkhouch - bear

[According to the author there are almost three pages of Mansi words after this.]

[The following entry is described by Matveyeva as being 'odd'; the writing looks different to that of Dubinina's in the past entries. It appears smaller, harder to decipher, and there is much less pressure on the pencil in the writing.]


28th of January. This morning at eight o'clock, we were woken by voices. It was Yura Kri and Sashka Kole that were mumbling. It isn't colder than yesterday (minus five).

After breakfast, one part of the group, Yura Yudin, Kolya, and Yura Doroschenko went to the core sample storage to pick up some rocks for their collection. They didn't find anything in the rocks save for some pyrite and a few veins of quartz.

They prepared for a long time, adjusting the binds of their skis and waxing them.

[Footnotes:

   1. Bastiste is a type of fine cloth made from a mixture of materials. I'm not a seamstress, but one quick search on Google will tell you everything you need to know about it.
   2. Slavka is Bienko's nickname. He was meant to be the tenth hiker (not counting Zolotaryov who was not part of the plan) but had to stay behind having not completed his exams (if I remember correctly).
   3. Stereotypically Russian hat with ear flaps, you've probably seen them around.
   4. 'Symphonie in Gold' is the name of an Austrian musical comedy that was popular in the USSR around the time of the incident.
   5. "V Lyudyakh" a popular movie, the name literally translated to "At the People's Place". "Zhivot Takoy Paren' translates to 'There is Such a Lad'. I may be wrong though, because according to Wikipedia, that movie came out a few years after the event. For all you Soviet-film buffs out there.
   6. I wasn't sure how to translate this. The original translation of the transcript basically conveys that Dubinina told the boy (Valya) that she fancied him, but that she had said that as a joke. That being said, the wording is ambiguous and much like in English, the phrase "I like you" can have both platonic and romantic connotations. My guess is she meant it in a more romantic way; who says 'I like you' in a friendly way and then takes it back as a joke? It feels extremely wrong to be looking so closely as Dubinina's relationships with people, but I feel like I remember reading somewhere that at the scene they found an unfinished letter from Dubinina addressed to a certain 'Valia', so perhaps these are the same people.]

For the extremely curious amongst you, the song that Igor Dyatlov was dancing to can easily be found on Youtube, in case anyone's interested in 1950's Austrian musicals.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 06:37:49 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
 

November 22, 2017, 07:27:23 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Another sticky.   okey1
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

November 24, 2017, 08:43:20 AM
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Armide


She was irritable it seems from some of her journal entries.
I believe she was on her cycle.

It would be a very unfortunate time to be so... It's also possible she was just a sensitive person in general, some people (including myself) take every piece of criticism really badly and it's just part of who they are. What's really interesting is that Dubinina barely ever describes the setting, the places and things they see (like Kolmogorova) but instead focuses almost entirely on the people around her. She spends a lot of time describing how they act, whether or not she likes them, how she feels, but there is barely any description of location or of actual hiking, she was clearly a "people-person". It seems she was very sensitive/bummed out throughout the trip, for example when Kolmogorova writes in her diary that everyone was outside celebrating and having fun, Dubinina was inside the tent sulking. What a lady, I would've loved to meet her.

EDIT: "I'm in a terrible mood and I know it'll last me another two days", I see where you're coming from now, people usually don't know how long they'll be in a bad mood for, so it's very possible the poor girl had an unfortunate cycle. I'm not too sure why else she would predict that her bad mood would last another four days (unless maybe she already feared something was going to happen?).
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 09:06:17 AM by Armide »
 

December 02, 2017, 06:38:26 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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I took the liberty of adding the pics to your OP... hope you dont mind.   thumb1
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

December 02, 2017, 06:55:03 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Where was your translation from?   The version I have is this, translated by google from original....

Quote
Notepad to the
lovely manager L.Dubinina for a diary.

January 23.
Today is the last day of collection All day passed in a terrible turmoil From eleven ran around shopping, bought every little thing. Foolishly bought '5 m of batiste, which took (struck out: all den) 200 rubles. I gathered myself in a terrible hurry and, of course, I forgot the sweets at home. Everyone was busy with his assigned work, and things were as if throaty. Shortly before the release began to gather the mourners Time was short, but we, of course, when we arrived at the station. And then the last minutes of parting came. Before the departure, "sang" a few songs, but in the car joined us pancakes together sang songs. Among all the most notable is the mole bass. This time there were a lot of very new songs that we were drawing with the help of the instructor Zolotarev A, who were accompanying us on a camping trip. Nobody wanted to take this Zolotarev first, for he is a new man, but then they spat and took, because you can not refuse. Thus, as we were ten, it remained, for Slavka did not release the fact of the bureau.

24 January.
(We went to bed and crossed out) We arrived in Serov very early. We were not allowed to go to the station with the ryoks. We settled down first near the station. The boys trespassed the manager, that is, they accused me of stinginess and greed. But alas, the canteen this time is a great luxury for us. There was one small incident - Yurk K. was taken to the police, accusing him of deception. Our hero decided to walk with a cap around the station and with the execution of a song. Yuri had to help out. Next, we managed to move to the elementary school together with the pancakes. After lunch, they began to prepare the equipment. Decided for the children 1 and 2 cells (crossed out - "read") to talk about tourism. They terribly liked our stories, things, and they became very attached to us. Up to the 6th time flew by unnoticed, we were accompanied by many of our new young acquaintances. The children were so attached, especially to Zina, that they parted with tears. On the train, all the time, they shouted songs under the mandolin and just like that. Then suddenly one young alcoholic, a cat, came to the boys. accused them of stealing a bottle of vodka. He demanded her return and promised to punch her teeth. In the end, he did not prove anything and did not get it, he was tired. Yurka came and sang with us a little and left. And we sang something then sang and then somehow passed unnoticed on the topic of love, in particular about kisses. They talked all kinds of nonsense, of course, everyone was interested, everyone was talking, trying to shout over each other and refute other statements. Sasha Kolevatov so surpassed all probably, he said it from the words of others. We arrived at night in Ivdel stopped at the station. Settled in the corner, immediately we lay down to sleep spreading the tent. I started to watch. This time used for sewing shoe covers, rewriting songs. Yurkina Olva from time to time probably screamed from boredom and hunger. I lasted up to 3 hours. All at that time lay down, only one Borya sewed something for a long time, but he finally lay down. Zhenya always picks me up, sometimes even says something offensive. Does he think I'm a fool. And I generally like to pour oil on fire, damn me.

The 25th of January.
We woke up, not giving a really good sleep. Rustic said that I will not wash, because there are no conditions. Agreed. Immediately the bus approached, quickly sank. Went to three floors. Kolba Thibaut so leaned his whole body on the ceiling, Olva first stood in (the word illegible) position, but soon could not restrain herself and climbed on her knees. Again, of course, they sang. I was already singing the voice. Zhenya again scared. Here is the echidoo, yes yeah. Now I have something cleared up, it's true before, but now it's better and more. But despite this, Yuri is still a good-natured person, at least, judging by his behavior. I'm still true to myself. Zhenya and Zina sang "If your eyes were not so blue ..." Having reached the fork, the bus went in a straight line and was to return for us in an hour. And we went on foot this time. It was so nice to walk along such a road and in such weather. A little pobesilis lie in the snow. During our walk, it turned out to be one incident - a car with a forest stuck in the opposite direction. Our guys rushed to the rescue. Finally they pulled it out with half in half. Then our bus came up and we again perched on it. Discussed this time about happiness. Basically our guys were the most active. They tried to give a definition of happiness, but everyone got their own way. In Vizhay came the hour in ("four" - crossed out) two. Blinovtsy are going to go further on the 41st, and we stay for sure to spend the night. We held pancakes with tears. The mood is spoiled. At parting, they sang with Zina Zhenya: "If you had your eyes ..." ("More" - crossed out) In general, it's very, very difficult for me. We are terribly lucky is the "Golden Symphony". Quickly dragged things to the hotel and went to the club. Although there was an unsharp picture, but it did not saddend us at all. Sitting next to Yuri Krivo all groaned and smacked his lips with delight. This little happiness, which is so hard to express in words. Still, what an amazing music! The mood after the picture became much better. Igor Dyatlov was simply unrecognizable. Tried to dance, singing: "Oh Jackie, Jom." With Yuri today on duty. They decided to cook noodles on the stove. But it was very difficult to heat the stove with such raw firewood, so it took a lot of time. Finally they began to eat. During the meal, a discussion arose again about the rights of boys and girls, ("about" -declined) freedom, etc. In my opinion, such discussions lead nowhere. So simple, for the rejection of the soul. We lay down late. All settled on the beds by two, only Yurka Krivo and Sasha went to bed between the beds.

26 January.
In the morning Sashka jumped up from the cold and said that he already had a cold night. Zina and I slept perfectly. Went to the dining room then began to gather. We go by car. Tried to sing, talked about abstract topics and in general it was not hot for everyone. The places were first uninteresting, a burnt forest. In general, we had to go to North 2 nd, but it was going on in the evening and we decided to stop at the 41st. at 4.30 We met very hospitably. They stopped in the barrack, where the guys live. In general, here all live civilians, there are no women at all, except two. The guys are all young, as Igor noticed, there are even cute and generally interesting. Especially memorable among all Ognev with a red beard and the nickname of his "Beard". In general, very rarely there are such people in such a hole. A true romantic, a geologist and generally developed. Many of the guys play the guitar. We watched three paintings at once: "In people", "There is such a guy" and again "The Golden Symphony". And again this music ("Co" - crossed out) First in (the illegible word) were divided into two groups one watched the pictures, the other wrote diaries, and Rustik and Kolya reasoned a little about everything, about work, etc. Generally I like these guys. A big difference between them, graduated from the institute Rustik, Ko, Yura and us. All the same, their judgments are the most mature and smarter than ours. God, I do not even talk about my own. After the movie, everyone was very tired and wanted to sleep. With Zina settled on a bed with a shell of mesh. Dream. And the guys are all on the floor. The mood is bad and probably will be two more days. Evil as hell.

27 January.
The temperature is 5 °. Heat, skis roll badly. Since morning we are going to. Today is the first day of the route. Now we sit and wait for the horse to carry the backpacks on it, but simply on skis. Fortune smiles at us. Yurka Yudin fell ill, something with a nerve of his leg, in general he radiculitis and he leaves home. So, there are nine of us in the future. While we are sitting and singing songs. Those guys play the guitar, Rustic plays along with the mandolin. Right after the soul takes. This is the last place of civilization, even this is not where we see people like that. In general, I love the guitar and I adore all musical people. And the guys in general are all good, they dance, they are musical. We talked with Ognev. He already knows a lot and is interesting with him, now he talks about our way and in general a lot of this. This, in my opinion, is the most interesting object here on the site. He has such a long red beard, although he is only 27 years old, and he looks older. And then there is Valya, who plays the guitar well (many play) and about whom I jokingly said that I like him. Now most of the guys sit here and sing songs to the guitar, on the occasion as they do not work today. In general it seems the last time I heard so many good new songs. But we hope that Rustik will replace them in the campaign. We learn some Mansi words from the guys.
I - stream
noul - meat
Sali - (inaudible)
Vazhenkov - doe
sohta - leader
Song - sled
sushep - watch
nannies - bread
young - house
number - the city
pyrya - went out
pisal - gun
sayrep - ax
Kasai - knife
matches - seranki
ATiM - there is no
oli - there
is a
dream - it's true tenkvem - eat
olna - money
ail - drink atari -
you need (not)
ergen - singing a
ruble - ruble
aqua - one
(turn skipped? - approx.)

January 28.
In the morning at 8 o'clock woke up to someone's talking. It turns out that they mouthed Yuri Krie with Sasha Kolya. The weather is as warm as yesterday (t ° -8 °) ("Poew, h" - crossed out) After breakfast, some of the guys Yura Yudin, Kolya and Yura Doroshenko went ("behind the rocks" - crossed out) to the core storage, where they decided to dial minerals for the collection. Nothing, except pyrite, and quartz veins in the breed was not. They gathered for a long time: they adjusted the mounts, smeared skis ("then"? - illegible word, densely crossed out).
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

December 03, 2017, 11:32:53 AM
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Armide


The version I have is from Anna Matveyeva's book "The Dyatlov Pass Mystery" (or something like that, I've only ever found it in French or in Russian so not sure about the English title) the text I translated was in French, as it was already a translation of the original from Russian. The main issue with Google Translate is that the meaning is often lost due to the fact that machine's can't really detect context and things like that, so some parts of it are pretty nonesensical. That being said, my translation is far, far, from perfect as well. I think the ideal would be to get a native Russian speaker to translate it directly from Russian.
 

December 03, 2017, 01:10:48 PM
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Armide


I took the liberty of adding the pics to your OP... hope you dont mind.   thumb1

Not at all, quite the contrary. It looks nicer with the original on it as well!
 

December 03, 2017, 04:04:17 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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The version I have is from Anna Matveyeva's book "The Dyatlov Pass Mystery" (or something like that, I've only ever found it in French or in Russian so not sure about the English title) the text I translated was in French, as it was already a translation of the original from Russian. The main issue with Google Translate is that the meaning is often lost due to the fact that machine's can't really detect context and things like that, so some parts of it are pretty nonesensical. That being said, my translation is far, far, from perfect as well. I think the ideal would be to get a native Russian speaker to translate it directly from Russian.

I see...  Feel free to run the others if they come out better that way.  Lol
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

December 07, 2017, 10:35:21 AM
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Armide


Quote
I see...  Feel free to run the others if they come out better that way.  Lol

Sorry, what do you mean by "run the others"? I'm a little confused
 

December 07, 2017, 09:55:09 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Quote
I see...  Feel free to run the others if they come out better that way.  Lol

Sorry, what do you mean by "run the others"? I'm a little confused

Translate your way, the ones I posted.  Seems to be better translations.  You can just most them in their respective threads and Ill copy to the OP
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

February 13, 2019, 10:26:27 AM
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UJ


Hello -

On the main website, where this diary is translated, is there an extra page?  Photo 13, attached here.  It looks like it would be the first page of a journal because of the left-hand page it is attached to (or the last page, opened upside-down from the back).  I don't know anything about Russian, but I can tell that the final translated page ends with the crossed out word, as shown in Photo 12.

Is Photo 13 just out of order from Lyudmila's diary, or is it from a different diary altogether?


Thanks

« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 12:47:11 PM by UJ »
 

February 13, 2019, 02:17:09 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hello -

On the main website, where this diary is translated, is there an extra page?  Photo 13, attached here.  It looks like it would be the first page of a journal because of the left-hand page it is attached to (or the last page, opened upside-down from the back).  I don't know anything about Russian, but I can tell that the final translated page ends with the crossed out word, as shown in Photo 12.

Is Photo 13 just out of order from Lyudmila's diary, or is it from a different diary altogether?


Thanks


Well it looks like that photo 13 belongs to another booklet. The booklets are similar to the school booklets still in use today. Also it maybe a different writing implement.  And is it the same hand writing  !  ? 
DB
 

February 13, 2019, 02:26:12 PM
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UJ


To me, the handwriting looks similar, but I’m not an expert.  All the other booklets we have pics of on here, the first page is accounted for.  So, my guess is somebody wrote on the last page with the booklet upside-down, or it’s one of the transcribed journals, or maybe it’s not even related.  I’m working on cleaning up the pic, and I can show it to a neighbor or try to read/translate it myself, but no promises on speed there...
 

June 08, 2022, 07:41:43 PM
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marieuk


If it had been written in English originally, I would take it to mean that there were only two women there and it wasn't referring to Lyuda and Zina.  To say there are no women and then to say there are two doesn't really make sense, so maybe it hasn't translated very well?
 

June 09, 2022, 03:03:56 PM
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Ziljoe


Thank you, Marieuk

To say there are no women and then to say there are two doesn't really make sense, so maybe it hasn't translated very well?

Yes, I could understand "there are no women except two", but "there are no women at all, except two"... seems a strange wording and raises a doubt about the translation.

I agree ith marieuk. The translations could have different meanings. I took photos of some of the typed diaries and got slightly different translations when I tried to translate. It might be useful to see them redone. It is interesting to look at the diaries and I do appreciate your efforts to look at them Charles. I read your posts with interest although I might not initially agree , I am open to anything that shines new light or a different perspective on things.

Please continue.
 

June 09, 2022, 08:18:27 PM
Reply #15
Offline

Игорь Б.


Перевод правильный. Просто Дубинина косноязычна. У неё неграмотная речь. Её дневники тяжело читать даже русскому. Таких как она у нас называют деревенщиной.

Если не вдаваться в подробности - Дубинина пишет и думает одновременно. Сначала написала, что женщин нет. Потом вспомнила и дописала, что есть две женщины.
На слово "вообще" можно не обращать внимания. У Дубининой это слово-паразит. Она использует его не задумываясь, по привычке. Только 26 января она использует это слово 9 раз.

Не надо искать какой-то скрытый смысл в её записях. Она просто неграмотна. Причём косноязычие зачастую неисправимо и остаётся у человека на всю жизнь, независимо от образования и положения в обществе.

P.S. Косноязычие это:
Quote
неспособность человека выражать свои мысли во время общения или письма: неясность, невнятность, невыразительность, неточность, повторяемость и неправильность речи или письма.
Неумение человека правильно строить речь (как устную, так и письменную), правильно применять значение слов и словосочетаний, говорить и писать легко, свободно и понятно.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8B%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%B5

На всякий случай - в русском языке слово "язык" имеет два значения: 1.) tongue 2.) language
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 08:36:40 PM by Игорь Б. »
An example of the impact of chemical weapons of a skunk (wolverine) in a tent:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=117054
 

June 10, 2022, 11:02:46 AM
Reply #16
Offline

Игорь Б.


Повторяю, перевод абсолютно правильный:
In general, here are all civilians, there are no women at all, except two.
Дубинина написала именно так. Потому что дура.
An example of the impact of chemical weapons of a skunk (wolverine) in a tent:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=117054