Victims and Case Files > Aleksander Kolevatov
Alexander Kolevatov
blackjackie:
I think that this character was quite ambiguous, in some way, but I don't want to think his position could have caused somehow the tragedy - he was a victim too.
--- Quote from: WAB on April 19, 2018, 05:33:22 AM ---
4.January, 30th was not a special meaning for Kolevatov. It is an error of the one who wrote that unknown diary as badly knew all members of his group. On January, 29th there was a birthday Yury Doroshenko. Probably them have mixed among themselves.
Alexander's birthday is on November, 16th, 1934
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This sounds strange, however. After some days, they should have learned each other names at least. Especially when you have to write it down, you focus on the right name. Also, as you said, Doroshenko's birthday was on the day before. I believe that January 30th did mean something to him.
--- Quote from: CalzagheChick on April 17, 2018, 08:09:25 PM ---I find him so insanely attractive.
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Me too. He definitely was.
Loose}{Cannon:
I wanna have like 10,000 of his babies. declare1
afraid7
Armide:
Thank you Galina, for your detailed answer, it's yet another amazing contribution to the forum! I agree with Teddy in that this does clear some things up but still there's something very off about Kolevatov that I just don't understand, a bunch of unanswered questions. I don't think he meant to be responsible for the group's death, but if we consider his background, it certainly gives another motive behind the death of the students.
Vietnamka:
I do not assume that one of them has been responsible for the group's death. But knowledges of skills, experience and characters can help to understand what did they do during the last night.
WAB:
Galina, let's decide that you want: or to details to study the invoice, or to think out myths, then in them definitively to trust, and still further to broadcast it to people who in you trust? Especially in the countries where many do not understand thin details of history and occurred …
I understand that it is much easier to me to compare because I have practically lived this epoch in real time. I already well remember all that was after Stalin's death and fragments I remember that was a little before it. Therefore on the general questions to me to object very difficultly. I as equals communicate with contemporaries of Dyatlov. Was very well and it is mutually familiar with Yury Yudin. Yudin even specified many questions at me. Especially it was appreciable, when we together with it and Eicher helped it to write the book for Donni. That there it has turned out is as at us speak - a question of the second (number two). Therefore give: or to result documents directly on the concrete person in the concrete organisation and in a concrete case, or we will not think out myths, and we will perceive words of the live witness of that epoch.
So, let's understand with merits of case …
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM ---
--- Quote ---All members of Dyatlov's group joined Komsomol at age 14, as soon as it was allowed. Sasha at age 18, during passing a security check "in the secret institute'.
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Some duality presents in this situation. Was it ideological decision or just necessary requirement?
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«Safety check» this necessary action for any "regime" enterprise, is not dependent on where it is, in Russia, in the USA, in China, or in Northern Korea. It is spent always, and no any relation to the introduction into Komsomol has. The result of check would be identical to Kolevatova is not dependent on that, there was it in Komsomol or not. The Komsomol is separate independent a political direction in life of youth of that time in the USSR. In such firms in the fifties accepted irrespective of Komsomol if the person had a corresponding formation and recommendations. «Check safety» was obligatory for all those who applied for work in these firms. I know it on myself and many my acquaintances. Practically. At the time of a little later, but not much more.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM ---WAB
--- Quote ---he lived in Moscow one and it had complexities in his life
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What do we know about his life in Moscow?
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It is a little. But it is enough what to have almost full idea about his life far from the native.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM ---
--- Quote ---Payment in Moscow according to its post was small
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- His salary was about 900-1000 rubles per month, while the average wage in the USSR was 600-700 rubles, the scholarship - 250-350 rubles per month.
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It is not necessary so all to deform. You do not know about its salary. You have a sheet of its salary вто it is a high time? No. Therefore it is necessary to compare not god knows with what, and with a reality. At that time the father worked for me as the engineer (on mine then already senior) at rather uneasy defensive factory. Its salary was that that 1000 or 1100 roubles. The laboratorian (a post on 4 steps more low!) did not receive 1000 roubles, its salary was about those 600 … 700 roubles even taking into account that at "institut Bochvar" for certain paid and «for harm», that is for made radioactive materials. But Kolevatov with such materials, or not, it still the big question because this enterprise worked with the big nomenclature of materials of type «Heavy metals» - lead, tungsten, molybdenum, mercury, silver, copper, zinc, bismuth, and others.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM --- - He got free housing in a new building which well-known scientists also lived. Moscow was a closed city and no one could come to live there.
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It too is lie. If under the name «has received free habitation» it is meaningful - «to receive a place in a hostel» it was. Because the enterprise should is obliged to provide all «young experts» (such term was in the USSR and it mattered about those who has ended the higher or average special educational institution and has been appointed to work in the given enterprise) with a place where they should live. And it did not depend on in what house it was. In new or in the old. But Kolevatov could or live at relatives or rent apartment (at us speak - to rent a room). As far as I know, relatives at it in Moscow was not.
Moscow was not the closed city. Any there could arrive. It is Vladivoskok, Sverdlovsk, Sevastopol, Murmansk (is more exact - Severomorsk) were closed. There to arrive simply so it was impossible. There were restrictions for visiting by foreigners. The admission was required. Moscow the closed city was not. In Moscow there was no possibility to arrive and will get a job. Then would not accept. And to arrive and live informally, without registration it was possible. But for those experts who were required to the important enterprises and large factories, there were exceptions. Them typed specially or distributed from educational institutions. For example, same Kolevatov. It has ended technical school (about that that this such - will be written more low) and was necessary to "institute Bochvara". It there have distributed. Technical schools with such profile as at Kolevatov was a little. It could be in general one to all USSR. Therefore anything surprising in such distribution is not present. It not the privilege, and necessity for the necessary expert. On its place there could be everybody another from this technical school.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM --- ( Now this is one of the most prestigious areas of Moscow with very expensive apartments )
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It now when there all is built up also it already far and not suburb (and partially, at that time still was and not Moscow)
Here is Moscow map 1952 on this area:
Learn? Bilding it are that is painted over red (stone), orange (wooden) and cherry (buildings of factories and institutes)
And here area borders of Moscow for 1957. They have been established in 1954, and this scheme was made for certain to Festival of youth and students in Moscow in 1957. There inscriptions in English.
As you can see, there still there are no many areas of building around the October field, and there are only sites of "institute Kurchatov" and "institute Bochvar" (are noted red)
And here modern Yandex-scheme on this area:
Here is a building map for 1968:
And for descriptive reasons the companion that would be visible as it is now built up:
On schemes it is designated:
1."Institute Kurchatov".
2."Institute Bochvar"
3.Street by name Oktjarbsky pole (now Marshal Birjuzov)
4.The Bridge between street Alabjana and street of the Narodnogo opolchenia
5.Crossing of street of the Narodnogo opolchenia and street Marshal Birjuzov
6.The House which you have shown in a picture
As they say - feel a difference. I will remind that with 1958 on 1965 in Moscow it has been constructed knowledge in 3 times more than was in 1953. And the area of Moscow as cities has increased almost in 4,5 times.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM ---
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And that you show in this picture, already building has begun it also the end of 60th years. All to a pain familiar, but in any way I can not remember. Especially this pub …?
Sheeeet! Yes it round the corner from the underground where I sit down into «т19» bus …
Here and the true moment. This building have constructed in the late sixties, therefore Kolevatov there in any way could not live. He has not had time to invent a time machine yet. J
Also look at a card of 1952 … And tell, where there were such houses?
Yes, it not the cheapest area of Moscow, but it not is "Arbat", not is "Peshkov-strit" grin1 and not is «Molochny pereulok» … On a rating it somewhere at once behind first ten …
And when there lived Kolevatov, there even projects from such houses were not.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM --- - he worked very well, but he was also very active in the social life of the institute. He became a member of Institute Komsomol committee, leaded shooting sport section. Began to engage in tourism, made new friends.
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It is all truly, but this typical behaviour for active youth of that time.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM ---WAB
--- Quote ---He worked on the lowest scientific post
--- End quote ---
Duality and different assessment of his job position. "The lowest scienific post" - compared to what?
--- End quote ---
And I have written, in comparison with a position of the engineer about the same enterprises for value.
Typical the table of ranks for the engineering level:
The laboratorian - the technician - the item the technician - the engineer - the item engineer - the leading engineer - it is not so important further.
And scientific level.
The laboratorian - the item the laboratorian - the younger research assistant - the senior research assistant - the assistant (assistant – professors, is I say for English-speaking readers) - the senior lecturer - the professor - corresponding member АS - academician АS.
These levels do not correspond each other. They are independent. But, as Kolevatov was on a post of the laboratorian, I and say that «It worked over the lowest scientific post» (c)
And I am not assured that they had «a scientific level». It was faster "engineering".
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM ---Of course he has not been a "leading scientist", but for the 19 year old boy who just graduated ordinary college he had a very good position and he was involved to some scientific research.
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It «very good position» (c) was absolutely typical for any, possessing the same skills and formation. It is necessary to note still, what even formation at level "technical school" has been not so extended. Many who has ended technical school, at that time were on engineering posts. After war, quantity and preparation level has a little fallen. And demographic position was heavy. Very many who had education even before war have been killed in the war.
For example, even in first group of astronauts USSR where there was Yury Gagarin, there was only one pilot with higher education - Vladimir Komarov, and just some persons with formation in technical school volume. From 20 persons, it was 1 + 5 (?) … the others had education only in volume of a military college of pilots. It is «almost technical school», but with smaller level common-technical formations.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on May 31, 2018, 09:16:06 PM ---But WAB talking about his "Lowest position" has in mind a bit different moment.
Did he has a access to classified information? Was he a "secret keeper" working in Secret Instittute?
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Some words about "the confidential keeper" (c). To the expert of level "laboratorian" of any especial secrets it was not informed. Privacy level has been caused by what not was the subjects and a direction of works in those enterprises which had confidential workings out is known. It is the second level of protection as there is an external cover, and all the most valuable is in the internal.
It was not familiar even with the general questions over which worked at "institute Bochvar". It was not necessary For its direct work, therefore to it it and did not inform.
It was not neither Opengamer, nor Teller, Fermi. And if to use analogue with Mahattan project further, it was the usual laboratorian in this project which at all did not know that they should receive in the end of work.
Therefore it is not necessary to exaggerate its values and the relation to privacy.
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