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Author Topic: Evidence  (Read 61858 times)

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January 27, 2021, 04:31:44 AM
Reply #240
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Nigel Evans


Just started reading "The Hoopa Project" and the author jumps straight in which the 1969 legislation at Skamania County (Washington State) ordinance 69-01 which due to the large number of sightings (50 between 1950 - 2006) makes it a felony for wanton killing of the creature.


An amendment in 1984 states - "Should the coroner determine any victim/creature to have been humanoid the prosecuting attorney shall pursue the case under existing laws pertaining to homicide."


So best not to kill it, maybe just make a citizens arrest perhaps. N.B. size estimates range from 8 to 12 ft and weighing a 1000 pounds.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 04:36:59 AM by Nigel Evans »
 

January 27, 2021, 06:22:45 AM
Reply #241

DAXXY

Guest
'The purpose behind these laws was actually to protect the safety and well-being of persons living or travelling in these areas when a sasquatch is "sighted", as many well-armed scientific investigators and casual hunters show up to take specimens'

https://www.courthouselibrary.ca/how-we-can-help/our-legal-knowledge-base/sasquatch-bc-law#:~:text=On%20April%201%2C%201969%20the,it%20was%20an%20official%20ordinance.

It's to stop someone running around in a gorilla suit from being shot.  So all the investigators and hunters can show up in a rural area, spend their money in stores, buy fuel, spend on hotels and other accommodation and give loads of free mass media publicity to the place, but they can't shoot it. 
I can see the reasoning behind it.  If someone dressed up in a gorilla suit gets shot there wouldn't be that many applicants for the job a second time. They would have to substantially raise the pay scale.  lol4
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 06:40:24 AM by DAXXY »
 

January 27, 2021, 06:52:49 AM
Reply #242
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Nigel Evans


'The purpose behind these laws was actually to protect the safety and well-being of persons living or travelling in these areas when a sasquatch is "sighted", as many well-armed scientific investigators and casual hunters show up to take specimens'


They have to say that or else other people will say - "Creatures that are spiritual in nature ?  It is illegal to shoot non-existent mythical creatures that are spiritual in nature in Washington State ? Have we slipped in to the twilight zone or something ? ". kewl1


More seriously your link doesn't mention the detail of the 1984 amendment - if humanoid then it's homicide..
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 06:56:51 AM by Nigel Evans »
 

January 27, 2021, 07:00:43 AM
Reply #243

DAXXY

Guest
'The purpose behind these laws was actually to protect the safety and well-being of persons living or travelling in these areas when a sasquatch is "sighted", as many well-armed scientific investigators and casual hunters show up to take specimens'


They have to say that or else other people will say - "Creatures that are spiritual in nature ?  It is illegal to shoot non-existent mythical creatures that are spiritual in nature in Washington State ? Have we slipped in to the twilight zone or something ? ". kewl1


More seriously your link doesn't mention the detail of the 1984 amendment - if humanoid then it's homicide..

 lol1 Exactly.  But it's still crazy.  People living and travelling there are protected by law anyway, as normal citizens. 

 humanoid is homicide. ?  that's interesting.  Also declaring it an endangered species ? I would have thought they would need some scientific background to do that.  can't find it online. 
Oh wait...
https://scholarworks.umb.edu/ghc/2014/panel2/3/
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 07:30:32 AM by DAXXY »
 

January 27, 2021, 07:46:29 AM
Reply #244

DAXXY

Guest
In 1984, the ordinance was revisited and the felony charge was dropped to a
misdemeanor carrying a one year jail sentence and $1000 fine (Prosecutor Bob Leick
realized that the county had overstepped its jurisdictional authority to declare killing a
Sasquatch a felony). The amended ordinance states:

BE IT HEREBY ORDAINED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF
SKAMANIA COUNTY that [the] portion of Ordinance No. 1969­01, deeming the
slaying of Bigfoot to be a felony and punishable by 5 years in prison, is hereby
repealed and in its stead the follow sections are enacted: SECTION 1. Sasquatch
Refuge. The Sasquatch… [is] declared to be endangered species of
Skamania County and there is hereby created a Sasquatch Refuge.

section 4 of the amended ordinance states, “Should the Skamania
County Coroner determine any victim/creature to have been humanoid the Prosecuting
Attorney shall persue [sic] the case under existing laws pertaining to homicide.”

The new ordinance although with more lenient overall punishments, included the ultimate Sasquatch
protection: the hunter, or killer, could be charged with murder
 

January 27, 2021, 09:27:52 AM
Reply #245

DAXXY

Guest
Homicide requires a human to kill a human.  The coroner can investigate to see if the animal shot is 'humanoid' meaning a person (because yeti's don't exist), but without a human victim his investigation would be over pretty quickly.  If the victim was a human (in a gorilla suit) then it would be a normal homicide investigation anyway.  So this seems to just be an ordinance stating the normal way the law would handle this situation. Kind of stating the obvious.
They are saying that if you shoot something that you think is a Bigfoot we will prosecute you under homicide laws because they know it has to be a person in a gorilla suit. It can't be anything other than a human for homicide to apply. 

So the people that made this law and put it in place are (by their own actions) demonstrating that they know Bigfoot doesn't exist and if anybody sees something appearing to be a Bigfoot then it is a human dressed up.
You have to start to wonder if these are elected officials ?  do they hold public office ? If they make this law then go on to take part in Bigfoot promoting events would that be classed as delusional behavior ? Could this be seen as conspiracy in public office, or fraud ? 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 12:55:07 PM by DAXXY »
 

January 27, 2021, 09:42:48 AM
Reply #246
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Nigel Evans


Homicide requires a human to kill a human.  The coroner can investigate to see if the animal shot is 'humanoid' meaning a person (because yeti's don't exist), but without a human victim his investigation would be over pretty quickly.  If the victim was a human (in a gorilla suit) then it would be a normal homicide investigation anyway.  So this seems to just be an ordinance stating the normal way the law would handle this situation. Kind of stating the obvious.


Sounds to me like the NRA has better lawyers than bigfoot.


So if bigfoot doesn't exist (as you say), if you get one in your rifle sights it's best not to shoot it because it must be a human? Which is where we started with this, so you've just contradicted yourself?
Loving it.  lol2

 

January 27, 2021, 09:47:53 AM
Reply #247

DAXXY

Guest
Homicide requires a human to kill a human.  The coroner can investigate to see if the animal shot is 'humanoid' meaning a person (because yeti's don't exist), but without a human victim his investigation would be over pretty quickly.  If the victim was a human (in a gorilla suit) then it would be a normal homicide investigation anyway.  So this seems to just be an ordinance stating the normal way the law would handle this situation. Kind of stating the obvious.


Sounds to me like the NRA has better lawyers than bigfoot.


So if bigfoot doesn't exist (as you say), if you get one in your rifle sights it's best not to shoot it because it must be a human? Which is where we started with this, so you've just contradicted yourself?
Loving it.  lol2

How ?? Surely you don't think that a person running around in a gorilla suit pretending to be Bigfoot is proof that Bigfoot exists ?    It doesn't exist so they don't want people shooting at people running around in gorilla suits.  They are aware that some people with guns believe that Bigfoot exists ?  is the plural of Bigfoot Bigfeet ?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 10:01:07 AM by DAXXY »
 

January 27, 2021, 10:14:36 AM
Reply #248
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Nigel Evans


Homicide requires a human to kill a human.  The coroner can investigate to see if the animal shot is 'humanoid' meaning a person (because yeti's don't exist), but without a human victim his investigation would be over pretty quickly.  If the victim was a human (in a gorilla suit) then it would be a normal homicide investigation anyway.  So this seems to just be an ordinance stating the normal way the law would handle this situation. Kind of stating the obvious.


Sounds to me like the NRA has better lawyers than bigfoot.


So if bigfoot doesn't exist (as you say), if you get one in your rifle sights it's best not to shoot it because it must be a human? Which is where we started with this, so you've just contradicted yourself?
Loving it.  lol2

How ?? Surely you don't think that a person running around in a gorilla suit pretending to be Bigfoot is proof that Bigfoot exists ?    It doesn't exist so they don't want people shooting at people running around in gorilla suits.  They are aware that some people with guns believe that Bigfoot exists ?  is the plural of Bigfoot Bigfeet ?




Reply #225 - You said :-
"The people who had one in their sights get an attack of conscience at the last second but happily plug deer, bears, pumas, elk, coyote, bobcat, wolves, and any other critters that are in season.  Nope I do not buy it one bit, never have, but if it gets people out in the woods looking for them at least they are getting fresh air and exercise. "
 

January 27, 2021, 11:15:10 AM
Reply #249

DAXXY

Guest
Yes ??  said what ?

'The people who had one in their sights get an attack of conscience at the last second but happily plug deer, bears, pumas, elk, coyote, bobcat, wolves, and any other critters that are in season.  Nope I do not buy it one bit, never have, but if it gets people out in the woods looking for them at least they are getting fresh air and exercise'.

This means that the people who have reported that they've seen a real Bigfoot while out hunting have 'very conveniently' had an attack of conscience over shooting a Bigfoot they claim to have seen, but have no such feelings for other animals they shoot like deer, bears, pumas, elk, coyote, bobcat, wolves, and any other critters that are in season.
There's no contradiction here.  Oh well...moving on and also 'loving it'     grin1 lol1
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 12:35:57 PM by DAXXY »
 

January 27, 2021, 12:49:08 PM
Reply #250
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

That's a lot of work, but it's good to get an idea what they think about the video.  I suppose that if there are yetis, etc, more of these kinds of things will start turning up as people have their phones on them most of the time.

Answer to

Quote
    mk:  January 21, 2021, 08:29:44 AM                Reply #165
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=772.msg12310#msg12310



  ••• « wish I spoke French. » 

 • In this case it would be useless.

By typing (in the bottom right-hand corner of the window) on the the parameter represented by a gearwheel
                     you have access to the usual commands, i.e. :
"vitesses de lecture"  (= reading speeds  --> 0.25 0.5 0.75 Normal=1 1.25 1.5 1.75 2 )
"Sous-titres" (= Subtitles)
  -  By typing on "Français"
  -  "Traduire automatiquement" (= Translate automatically)
    ===>   You have a wide choice of foreign languages to translate subtitles that repeat what is said in French.

   ••• It's strange that the creature is so dark if it lives in a snowy place, but I'm sure they had an explanation for that.  Funny:.................., but to me that figure looked exactly like a hiker in a hooded coat with a dark backpack.

I totally agree. In my opinion, he is obviously a tall (2 metres), well equipped and well trained solitary mountaineer who moves safely and cautiously.

 • at 2.25 :  They said :
a specimen of size between 2 metres and 2 metres x high ---> x = "louis" is incomprehensible with the ear - perhaps x= 'dix" = "louis" = "ten", i.e. 2.10 metres .

 • from 4.06  to 4.08 : photo of a paw print next to an ice axe.
A solitary mountain dweller who is also a prankster because he has fixed a special wider plate under his shoes to walk in the snow to intrigue the passers-by.

   ••• «  It wasn't until the clip of the scientists examining the film that I could see how it's supposed to look like a yeti.  They seemed to be talking about the size of the figure and stuff--again, wish I spoke French! » 

 • at 2.40 : The bearded scientist examining the film should be the cryptozoologist Richard Greenwell  (1942 - November 1, 2005)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Greenwell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoology


I agree, it is definitely a climber. Freeze it at 1:43 and the hood of his coat is visible, as are the contours of his two tone coat, which is grey down the back, forming a squared end, with black sides.

Not so sure. I have looked at this many times and it looks similar to the figure in that photo taken by one of the Dyatlov Group. The Arms look very long and the way they move is interesting. Also that was a fairly powerful Avalanche. Yet the figure just brushes it off and walks away uphill. I find that interesting.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 12:55:14 PM
Reply #251
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Reference the rather dubious Moon landing analogy...

The DPI, as presented, would be the equivalent of Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin sitting inside their lander module in their underwear, with the heating turned off, playing Scrabble instead of attending to the risks presented by their location, not following the procedures they were trained for in order to ensure their survival and the completion of their mission.

Despite having the means to survive right by their side, dragged all the way to the Moon, they inexplicably ignore them, and have also landed somewhere they shouldn't be.

They then smash their way out of their capsule instead of exiting via the door provided, roam around without securing their space suit's integrity, and set off in single file, without their flag and experiments, to go and hide in a crater, where they inevitably perish.

Their camera takes photo's of strange objects in the sky, and the only photographic proof we have that they were there are two close-up photo's of a trench, which do not confirm they are on the lunar surface or show the horizon.

If all that happened would anyone believe they were ever on the Moon?
I think you have missed the point.

Not in the slightest. You made a very dubious analogy, trying to compare those who doubt the tent 'landed' on the ridge, was pitched there by hikers, with those who deny the Moon landings took place.

Quite apart from the fact those of us who consider the tent resiting theory to have some weight do not appear to doubt man landed on the Moon, I certainly don't, I pointed out how the Moon landings would not have been possible had the astronauts not followed their training and procedures, and how an experienced bunch of hikers would have followed theirs too in their own extreme environment in order to survive and finish their own mission.
 
Yet, as presented, they behaved as if in the Bahamas.

Well personally I believe that Man landed on the Moon via Apollo 11.  And I dont believe that the Tent was set up by any one else other than the Dyatlov Group. All the Evidence and indications point to the Dyatlov Group.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 12:58:51 PM
Reply #252
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am genuinely enjoying this conversation. 

Star Man was reminding me of some kind of Poirot/Miss Marple who refuses to spill the beans until the last chapter because he might be wrong and doesn't want to hurt the innocent.  But now I'm cracking up over the metaphor which keeps getting more and more complicated and actually confusing, rather than elucidating, the issue.

Maybe it's neither a horse nor a dolphin.  Maybe it's a hippokampos.   popcorn1

If I had a book coming out I'd combine all the most 'imaginative' theories I've read in this forum, it's sure to get into the best seller lists, or at the very least become a better script than that awful movie.

So, I'd have the yeti/menk/sasquatch as an alien from a frozen world, and it evolved to be covered in fur to stay warm. It is said to walk with a lolloping gait, and that is due to differences in gravity, and is generally only seen in colder climates, at altitude, well away from the equator, where the hirsute beast cannot cope with the heat.

The reason no dead yeti or baby yetis have ever been seen, or a lair or dung found, is they do not live and breed here, only visit, and arrive via a wormhole, which only appears on mountains rich in iron, a lodestone where the wormhole flux creates plasmatic effects such as orange orbs, 'fireorbs', glowing entities and ball lightning.

When the wormhole is closed there is a ripple in the space time continuum, explaining the military getting dates wrong, and anything metal, such as aircraft or a passing missile, is sucked towards it like iron filings to a magnet, explaining all the aircraft which crashed in that area across the years.

The number 9, the highest single number, is believed to be one of the combination numbers which unlocks the wormhole, and gadget man Igor Dyatlov had developed a special radio frequency receiver to detect the wormhole's formation, comprising of a small radio, excess salt and a piece of copper wire as an aerial. If the reception of Bill Haley's Rock Around The Clock was interrupted on Berlin radio when at 3000ft they knew what was about to happen.

They headed up that mountain after detecting something and attempted to trap a tourist menk in a pit, digging a deep snow trench. The creature was lured inside with loin steaks and porridge, and the tent arranged to collapse on top of it. The hikers had taken off clothing to evade the menk's thermal vision, which allows it to hunt prey on its frozen world (like when Arnie covered himself with river mud to elude The Predator).

They hypnotised and subdued the trapped menk by cossack dancing around the tent while singing banned communist songs. 'We will not stop until you drink the medicinal vodka!' they shouted, as Semyon whooped that they were going to make history. Soon it was bleary-eyed, toasting Nikita Khrushchev, collapsing into a heap, snoring its head off, and then they lowered themselves in to tie it to logs, intending to haul it out and lay it on a ski sled and drag it back to Vizhay, where bearded man's hospitality would welcome it as a long-lost cousin and make it feel at home as a fellow State outcast.

But the menk came round when they were in the trench and attacked them with its compelling force and tore its way out of the tent using its claws. The drunken menk staggered outside, tripped over a rock and fell. When they do so they instinctively go into a hedgehog ball, so it rolled down the pass towards the forest, its fur not leaving any trace. The hikers assembled to discuss what to do, and decided they had to leave immediately and go after it, determined not to lose their prize and the chance to be in the National Geographic.

The menk, now nursing a hangover, hid in the forest. Slowly its anger grew as it watched the hikers' approach and begin digging another capture pit in the snow, and it decided to exact its revenge. It pounced on Lyuda and Semyon, and delivered not a bear hug, but something far worse, a yeti hug, which cracked ribs, and when Lyuda screamed it ripped out her tongue like the alienised Ripley did the alien's in Alien Resurrection, loosening her hyoid bone. It threw their bodies into the ravine, and captured Igor to hang him upside down by his ankles from a tree, but he escaped. To keep evading the hikers and spring surprise attacks it shapeshifted into many different things, including a dolphin, a horse, a lynx, an eagle, and even a mushroom head.

The rest of the hikers hid in the tallest tree they could find, a cedar, nervously looking back up at the tent. The menk lit itself a fire underneath, using branches which snapped off under its weight when it tried to climb up after them. It tried to smoke them out, but eventually, after warming itself, it shook the tree so violently the hikers fell down like conkers, and then it bonked some of them on their heads with a log as if playing a xylophone.

The military arrived, their radar detecting an anomaly, helicopters, ground vehicles, MiG jets, the lot, but by then the menk had vanished, the wormhole closed, so they staged a Roswell style cover-up, arranging bodies so they looked like they'd been chased or bitten by a combination of overwintering snakes, marauding elks and hungry wolverines, while others died of the cold dressed only in their birthday suits. 'People will never believe this', they thought to themselves, but for 62 years and more, they did.

Rumour has it the Soviets caught a menk in 1952 and were hoping for a breeding pair for military applications, and that the menk helped them develop their space program. They only abandoned Moon landings for the greater goal of the planet Chewbaccaan.

A Stitch In Time Kills Nine is available soon.

Nonsense

You're only smarting because I missed out crop circles.

You are the one who is rubbishing what many witnesses have seen or experienced. The Mansi have their Legends and that includes the Menk [ Yeti ]  The Soviet Authorities even set up a Department to search for Evidence of such creatures.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 01:08:02 PM
Reply #253
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Interesting how the human mind works. In situations where we have a need for plain explanations to big events but they aren't available we then fill any gaps with imaginative ideas.  It must be this...or it must be that. 

In the UK there are mysterious sightings of a big black panther type of cat in rural areas every year.   Funny how it's just before the tourist season.  Same with the Loch Ness Monster.  Why else would anyone want to go out of their way to a rural Scottish loch.  Empty places need to generate footfall and excite the media producers to make their 'documentaries'.  There is nothing better for this than some old legend of a 'creature' from folklore that is actually real and wanders about looking for groups of explorers with their cameras at the ready so they can perform as soon as the explorer shouts "OK and.....Action!"    lol1


I'm struggling to connect the DPI with the Loch Ness monster, although i know a someone who might....


Give me a Yeti any day.

It's the same process.  There is a big event and people want an explanation.  Monsters and mythical creatures or Aliens coming to life to fill in the gaps in peoples knowledge.
There is nothing wrong with healthy imagination and folklore had a purpose, and if hunting a yeti gets people out in the forest having fun and fresh air then there's nothing wrong in that either.  But that's all it is.  Imagination and lack of factual knowledge. But that's just my own opinion...I respect anybody having a different opinion to mine who believe Yeti's are real.  I hope they are successful in finding one  lol2

But you seem to be missing the point. Its not about  whether or not any of us believe this that or the other, its about EVIDENCE. If someone witnesses a crime being committed and reports it then that person will be giving EVIDENCE. A sighting is EVIDENCE.

A sighting is a report of their opinion as to what they think they saw.  It needs supporting fact based evidence.  People in all sorts of situations can believe they saw something.  Belief is just that, their own personal belief or opinion.   It's like a scientist doing an experiment.  One successful outcome isn't enough.  He must be able to do the experiment repeatedly to show that the theories in his research are correct.  First comes the hypothesis, then the theory..then if correct and repeatable it becomes an established law.  There is a desire in the human brain not to leave loose ends and it wants things explained so when odd sightings or fleeting glimpses of animals are seen in forests the brain tries to draw on many kinds of imaginative possible explanations.

Thats not how the Law works. Have you ever been in a Court of Law  !  ?  A sighting is Evidence and like all Evidence it is scrutinised but not denied or rubbished as some people unfortunately seem to do.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 01:13:31 PM
Reply #254
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


A sighting is a report of their opinion as to what they think they saw.  It needs supporting fact based evidence.  People in all sorts of situations can believe they saw something.  Belief is just that, their own personal belief or opinion.   It's like a scientist doing an experiment.  One successful outcome isn't enough.  He must be able to do the experiment repeatedly to show that the theories in his research are correct.  First comes the hypothesis, then the theory..then if correct and repeatable it becomes an established law.  There is a desire in the human brain not to leave loose ends and it wants things explained so when odd sightings or fleeting glimpses of animals are seen in forests the brain tries to draw on many kinds of imaginative possible explanations.
You really need to watch that video!! It's about a group of scientists (including Prof Jeff Meldrum) who have examined all the evidence todate and they conclude :-
  • The plaster casts of 300 footprints are genuine and of a creature unknown to science.
  • The famous video - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson%E2%80%93Gimlin_film is of a female 7.5ft in height with a condition on her lower right thigh considered to be genuine and affecting her gait.
  • The video of a bigfoot racing across a field fits an explanation of it carrying a child on it's back.
  • There's a plaster cast of an imprint of a large primate lying on it's side taken in North America.
Other considerations are inconclusive but i struggle to see how anyone with an open mind could watch that movie and not agree that there is something here. The footprint evidence alone imo is conclusive. Hoaxers couldn't fool the scientists with so much data spread over 20 years and over thousands of miles..

Well I must admit that until I got onto this Dyatlov Case I used to take many of the stories of Yeti and Big Foot with a pinch of salt. But just like with the Crop Circle and UFO phenomenon there is clearly something going on that isnt due to peoples imagination or mistaken identity or men with planks making Circles, etc.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 01:28:57 PM
Reply #255
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I heard from a lion expert that the reason many African native people walk barefoot is because we have bones in our feet that will vibrate if a dangerous animal is nearby giving a low vibrating growl like lions or elephants do. If they wore shoes or sandals they wouldn't pick up the warning vibration in their feet.
All the circumstantial evidence is just exactly that, no matter how plentiful it is.  The main consistent thing is that these animals are never caught.  It's amazing that these prints are found of giant feet in the woods but these trails are never followed by a tracker or dogs ? how can all the tracks have disappeared ? Tracks like those would be visible in a forest to even a novice tracker.  Dogs could get on a trail like that the next day but they are never used.  I don't buy it.  All the movies are the same. Long distance shaky dark vague figure.  The people who had one in their sights get an attack of conscience at the last second but happily plug deer, bears, pumas, elk, coyote, bobcat, wolves, and any other critters that are in season.  Nope I do not buy it one bit, never have, but if it gets people out in the woods looking for them at least they are getting fresh air and exercise.

Well I can understand where you are coming from and of course you have valid points. You are correct when you suggest how come we dont have the Physical Evidence. We have Evidence but its only Sightings and Footprints, although some people reckon there is also Hair Samples. But no Yeti or whatever its called. But lets look at it another way. There are many mysteries in the World and the Universe. Many unexplained things. How are Crop Circles formed  ! ? How are Cattle Mutilated in the way that they are ! ?  And how is that there are so many reports of UFO activity ! ? Etc.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 01:35:28 PM
Reply #256
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Odd how every conversation on this forum ends up with talk about the yeti and ufo's, unless, of course, Teddy is involved in it.  lol4

Well thats probably because UFO and Yeti are subjects that are considered in this Dyatlov Mystery, and the Website that teddy set up. When we come against a brick wall or dead end with other Theories we tend to end up with the more exotic possibilities. All Theories have to be considered.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
Reply #257
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

All the circumstantial evidence is just exactly that, no matter how plentiful it is.  The main consistent thing is that these animals are never caught.  Much more significant is that no corpses or skeletons have ever been found.


It's amazing that these prints are found of giant feet in the woods but these trails are never followed by a tracker or dogs ? how can all the tracks have disappeared ? Tracks like those would be visible in a forest to even a novice tracker.  Dogs could get on a trail like that the next day but they are never used.  I think that's unfair, only state agencies have the resources to quickly deploy dog teams and handlers etc and so far they don't do so. Jeff Meldrum makes the same point in reverse, believing the case is such that they should do so.


I don't buy it.  All the movies are the same. Long distance shaky dark vague figure.  The people who had one in their sights get an attack of conscience at the last second but happily plug deer, bears, pumas, elk, coyote, bobcat, wolves, and any other critters that are in season.  Nope I do not buy it one bit, never have, but if it gets people out in the woods looking for them at least they are getting fresh air and exercise.
I'd be cautious about shooting this guy, human men (and women) vary in the degree of hairyness (hirsute) and you wouldn't want to go down for murdering a hairy version of Arnold Schwarzenegger.... rus1
Also apparently it's illegal in one north western state to shoot a bigfoot.


Wait a minute !



Tommy Lee Jones one of my favourite Actors.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 01:43:13 PM
Reply #258
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
In all seriousness, Nigel, will you be kind enough to give me the name of the book? I really would like to read it. It is important to keep an open mind. If I am wrong and the Yeti does exist I will owe many people an apology. And I do,very much, love to read. My apologies if I have offended you.   thanky1


Definitely not offended, quite the opposite i'm enjoying the banter amongst a pleasant group of people and i've no problem with people being skeptical. Plus i'm enjoying the journey here, my understanding of the bigfoot phenomena has made  a quantum leap with this book - "Sasquatch: Legend meets Science" same title as the video.

Absolutely. This is an excellent Forum, probably the best of its kind in the World. Its good that we should dig into all the various Theories, criticise and whatever, but be nice to one another as well.
DB
 

January 27, 2021, 01:57:31 PM
Reply #259
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RidgeWatcher


I found this take on the issue of Bigfoot profound and enlightening, hope you enjoy:
[url]https://youtu.be/9ukvQfUlAog[url]

Yes, I get carried away sometimes myself, Thank you, sarapuk.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 02:03:25 PM by RidgeWatcher »
 

January 28, 2021, 05:03:47 AM
Reply #260

eurocentric

Guest
The man who started the Bigfoot craze, in 1958, was found to have faked some footprints, and he later worked with the man who claimed to have filmed a yeti on his first stab at making a documentary, from which the following 'lovely bunch of coconuts' still photo is taken. That film is now widely considered a hoax, especially after a Hollywood special effects man later claimed he made the suit. These stunts notably followed earlier Everest climbers' internationally publicised claims to have seen a yeti in the Himalayas.



The Loch Ness monster tales go back hundreds of years, but it wasn't until a 'reputable' man photographed the 'monster', a surgeon, someone seen then, and now, as a reliable witness due to his profession, that the international public imagination caught on, and again other versions appeared in lakes around the world. Years later the surgeon's photo was proven to have been a hoax, admitted to 60 years on.

I suspect that what happens is some historians uncover redundant mythology, some of it tribal and dating back to a time when the Sun was worshipped and some animals were considered to possess supernatural powers, and in the 20th century they staged hoaxes which carried greater credibility because they appeared to have a researched lineage with the past. Then, seeing the success of the hoax, other countries developed their own versions, in the same manner the recent 2001 Space Odyssey monoliths appearing over the New Year were copied around the world.

So there is a pattern to these things, and meanwhile one thing remains a constant - there is never any evidence.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 05:18:42 AM by eurocentric »
 

January 28, 2021, 05:49:14 AM
Reply #261
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Nigel Evans


I found this take on the issue of Bigfoot profound and enlightening, hope you enjoy:
https://youtu.be/9ukvQfUlAog

Yes, I get carried away sometimes myself, Thank you, sarapuk.

I didn't know there was an Australian yeti!

.


 

January 28, 2021, 05:54:56 AM
Reply #262
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Nigel Evans




So there is a pattern to these things, and meanwhile one thing remains a constant - there is never any evidence.
Professor Jeff Meldrum and others would argue against you and they are experts in their fields and you are not (i assume).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003JH8MBA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
 

January 28, 2021, 05:55:35 AM
Reply #263
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Nigel Evans


In all seriousness, Nigel, will you be kind enough to give me the name of the book? I really would like to read it. It is important to keep an open mind. If I am wrong and the Yeti does exist I will owe many people an apology. And I do,very much, love to read. My apologies if I have offended you.   thanky1


Definitely not offended, quite the opposite i'm enjoying the banter amongst a pleasant group of people and i've no problem with people being skeptical. Plus i'm enjoying the journey here, my understanding of the bigfoot phenomena has made  a quantum leap with this book - "Sasquatch: Legend meets Science" same title as the video.

Absolutely. This is an excellent Forum, probably the best of its kind in the World. Its good that we should dig into all the various Theories, criticise and whatever, but be nice to one another as well.
Absolutely.
 

January 28, 2021, 06:07:08 AM
Reply #264
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Nigel Evans


I heard from a lion expert that the reason many African native people walk barefoot is because we have bones in our feet that will vibrate if a dangerous animal is nearby giving a low vibrating growl like lions or elephants do. If they wore shoes or sandals they wouldn't pick up the warning vibration in their feet.
All the circumstantial evidence is just exactly that, no matter how plentiful it is.  The main consistent thing is that these animals are never caught.  It's amazing that these prints are found of giant feet in the woods but these trails are never followed by a tracker or dogs ? how can all the tracks have disappeared ? Tracks like those would be visible in a forest to even a novice tracker.  Dogs could get on a trail like that the next day but they are never used.  I don't buy it.  All the movies are the same. Long distance shaky dark vague figure.  The people who had one in their sights get an attack of conscience at the last second but happily plug deer, bears, pumas, elk, coyote, bobcat, wolves, and any other critters that are in season.  Nope I do not buy it one bit, never have, but if it gets people out in the woods looking for them at least they are getting fresh air and exercise.

Well I can understand where you are coming from and of course you have valid points. You are correct when you suggest how come we dont have the Physical Evidence. We have Evidence but its only Sightings and Footprints, although some people reckon there is also Hair Samples. But no Yeti or whatever its called. But lets look at it another way. There are many mysteries in the World and the Universe. Many unexplained things. How are Crop Circles formed  ! ? How are Cattle Mutilated in the way that they are ! ?  And how is that there are so many reports of UFO activity ! ? Etc.

The story of the panda is illuminating wrt bigfoot imo. - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-america-fell-love-giant-panda-180956692/
Basically it took 60 years from stories (and a skin) coming out of China of a vegetarian black and white bear. Skeptics dismissed the story, bears were always completely black, brown or white and omnivorous apex predators, what nonsense! There was even speculation of the skin being a type of racoon. The local mountain people all swore of it's existence and considered to it to be a kind of spirit, a deity.

The issue was solved (60 years later) by wealthy individuals mounting an enormous expedition to find the animal.


So perhaps we're in a similar period now perhaps with bigfoot. Only this panda doesn't like the limelight.....
 

January 28, 2021, 06:27:17 AM
Reply #265
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I heard from a lion expert that the reason many African native people walk barefoot is because we have bones in our feet that will vibrate if a dangerous animal is nearby giving a low vibrating growl like lions or elephants do. If they wore shoes or sandals they wouldn't pick up the warning vibration in their feet.
All the circumstantial evidence is just exactly that, no matter how plentiful it is.  The main consistent thing is that these animals are never caught.  It's amazing that these prints are found of giant feet in the woods but these trails are never followed by a tracker or dogs ? how can all the tracks have disappeared ? Tracks like those would be visible in a forest to even a novice tracker.  Dogs could get on a trail like that the next day but they are never used.  I don't buy it.  All the movies are the same. Long distance shaky dark vague figure.  The people who had one in their sights get an attack of conscience at the last second but happily plug deer, bears, pumas, elk, coyote, bobcat, wolves, and any other critters that are in season.  Nope I do not buy it one bit, never have, but if it gets people out in the woods looking for them at least they are getting fresh air and exercise.

Well I can understand where you are coming from and of course you have valid points. You are correct when you suggest how come we dont have the Physical Evidence. We have Evidence but its only Sightings and Footprints, although some people reckon there is also Hair Samples. But no Yeti or whatever its called. But lets look at it another way. There are many mysteries in the World and the Universe. Many unexplained things. How are Crop Circles formed  ! ? How are Cattle Mutilated in the way that they are ! ?  And how is that there are so many reports of UFO activity ! ? Etc.

The story of the panda is illuminating wrt bigfoot imo. - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-america-fell-love-giant-panda-180956692/
Basically it took 60 years from stories (and a skin) coming out of China of a vegetarian black and white bear. Skeptics dismissed the story, bears were always completely black, brown or white and omnivorous apex predators, what nonsense! There was even speculation of the skin being a type of racoon. The local mountain people all swore of it's existence and considered to it to be a kind of spirit, a deity.

The issue was solved (60 years later) by wealthy individuals mounting an enormous expedition to find the animal.


So perhaps we're in a similar period now perhaps with bigfoot. Only this panda doesn't like the limelight.....

How many years did it take to convince people that the world wasn't flat?  Caution is required because if you think you know everything you are unlikely to learn anything.  Without researching all the evidence and keeping an open mind you will always conclude what you want to believe.  Whether it is the truth or not.  Saying that, until there is proof positive you should never conclude anything absolutely either.

Regards

Star man
 

January 28, 2021, 07:28:53 AM
Reply #266
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MDGross


Now Nigel, your theories have always had sound scientific reasoning. Natural selection would have made an ancient humanoid extinct millennia ago. If not that, then inbreeding and such a small gene pool would have led to its demise. There are no tigers with giant, protruding teeth; there are no giant apes; there are no sea serpents; and there are no fur-covered, 8-foot tall humanoids that roam the U.S. or Siberia or anywhere else. Bigfoot is the stuff of legend. From the Loch Ness monster to Bigfoot, people can't resist letting their imaginations run wild. The more exotic and dangerous the creature, the better.
 

January 28, 2021, 07:50:07 AM
Reply #267
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Nigel Evans


Now Nigel, your theories have always had sound scientific reasoning. Natural selection would have made an ancient humanoid extinct millennia ago. If not that, then inbreeding and such a small gene pool would have led to its demise. There are no tigers with giant, protruding teeth; there are no giant apes; there are no sea serpents; and there are no fur-covered, 8-foot tall humanoids that roam the U.S. or Siberia or anywhere else. Bigfoot is the stuff of legend. From the Loch Ness monster to Bigfoot, people can't resist letting their imaginations run wild. The more exotic and dangerous the creature, the better.
Hi there, your answer would be more impressive if you had said - "Now Nigel, i have read Professor Meldrum's book and i still think...."
But you didn't, so it isn't...  bang1
 

January 28, 2021, 08:22:52 AM
Reply #268

DAXXY

Guest
Just because someone is an academic does not make them more believable or more trustworthy than anyone else.  Academics can also have their own agendas.  Look at the 'academics' who helped dictators like Hitler.  Academics will ride any gravy train that offers them a living where they can use their talents. They need to make a living like everyone else.  In these days of social media and 'documentaries' being made about supernatural phenomenon the film makers feel better about paying and interviewing doctor A or professor B.  It adds a veneer of academic status to the documentary's content.  It's better than just interviewing Frank C who works on a farm.  But I guarantee every academic will never offer proof of Bigfoot's existence or make anything other than non-committal comments like 'further research is needed'  as they hand the media company their contact details.  lol4  Bigfoot should be seen for what it is.  An old fashioned mythical folklore creature like dragons.

People have a right to their beliefs and many people prefer to sit on fences with their open minds.  Open mindedness is fine until someone like an academic working for a higher power comes along with an agenda and starts to fill in gaps using pseudo-intellectual language and edited video clips and lots of very definite sounding statements which are actually complete non-answers.  An open mind is like an open box. Ready to be filled by anyone, you could grow nourishing herbs in your box or you could allow someone else to put a rattlesnake in your box.

If you look at an earlier mass delusion in history 'Witchcraft'.  Witches were actually women healers in rural communities and they knew loads of knowledge but not necessarily why things worked. They would help expectant mothers and heal the sick.  The magic wand comes from a small hardwood staff the 'witch' would carry when visiting expectant mothers to tell them when a baby would be born.  This still exists today in gynecology as the uterine sound.  The mass witch killings across Europe were to establish men as the fountain of all healing and medical knowledge.  Knowledge then came from the wealthy educated male dominated classes.  I wonder how many open minded people allowed themselves to be led to watch their local witch go up in smoke and believed what they were being told by their local dignitaries about how evil their local healers were ? How they cast magic spells using their wands, cooked children, turned themselves in to black cats, or flew on their broomsticks.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 09:05:46 AM by DAXXY »
 

January 28, 2021, 09:05:59 AM
Reply #269
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Nigel Evans


I've known girls who really flew on their broomstick. Most of them had a black cat. I wonder if i was bewitched?

Best to keep an open mind...