Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Rempel.
ElizabethHarris:
Thank you for your information on exhumation. Yes, I agree that it wouldn't necessarily show us anything more than we already know. But since we are at such a dead end, there's not much more left to investigate unless, god willing, some new case file appears out of some lost Soviet 'lock box', which is highly unlikely. I wish I could be comfortable with accepting this as an accident or result from some natural event but as much as I want to, I simply cannot get past certain injuries that have convinced me beyond a reasonable doubt even, that this was no accident. There are just too many things that don't add up for natural event theories. There aren't many things that don't fit with the murder theory. PPl typically say it could not have been murder for the following reasons: 1) there are no other footprints at scenes 2) no one else was on the mountain or in the vicinity of their site 3) there is no motive anywhere to be found 3) there would be signs of struggle 4) nothing is missing from tent or on their persons 5) the injuries cannot be man-made. There are others but those are the usuals. I have come up with answers to disprove all of those statements and somebody somewhere will have answers to disprove mine....Just about every wound suffered on all 9 can be accounted for as possibly man-made violence. Signs of strangulation, signs of being tied up, defensive wounds, black eyes, pulmonary edema, hemothorax, etc etc...BUT could also have possibly come from wounds sustained from a natural event. Except, things like avalanche, snow slide, blizzard etc. do not equate with other pieces of evidence either. If avalanche, snow slide etc, there would be many more bone fractures, broken wrists, arms, legs, not only ribs. Not ONE other bone was broken on any of the 9 except the ribs and those with skull fractures. In the natural event too, the tent would not have been found as undisturbed as it was: nothing was crushed or destroyed except one ski pole which seemed to be an intentional act. The wounds at both scenes are entirely different from each other, it's almost as if these were 2 separate events entirely. Compare the cedar/forest/snow den injuries...2 different events. And finally, every body was moved within only a few hours after death except Igor's. How does any natural event explain that? These conversations and exchanges of ideas are fabulous!! Thank you for all you add to them!! We all just want the truth, not to be right...
Teddy:
--- Quote from: GlennM on January 28, 2022, 09:11:10 PM ---I believe at the time, there was every effort to be respectful of the dead, yet use the dead to ascertain the cause of their demise. Exhumation today would not add to what is known. It would be more of a comparison of their mortal residue when buried versus when exhumed, as opposed to making new discovery. I appreciate forensics have progressed since 1959, but I recall an incident where archaeological experts concluded animal bones had microscopic scratches indicative of cut marks from stone age tools, hence hominid hunters. Then, another researcher demonstrated that if bones are trampled by other animals,they can leave similar cut marks from abrasion by gravel. I fear that reexamination of the bodies could still produce ambiguity. That, unless a bullet or broken knife blade was found among the bones. At some point we separate quest for truth from morbid curiosity. I think we all quest in this forum. I believe they died by making the right choice to camp on 1079 rather than slog through deep snow in the forest. When fear struck, Nature held the high card. They were too cold, too hungry, too hurt and too weak to overcome a compelling natural force. Exhumation wouldn't change that. Would it? What a thought provoking group of serious thinkers we have. Excellent.
--- End quote ---
I am with GlennM on this. What did the exhumation do other than drag his name into the mud and the whole world to know all the intimate details of his life. The circus with the DNA is to this day unsolved since it could be his brother for all we know, his is executed, but it could be a conspiracy so instead of moving ahead we now have more ghosts to sort out. The bones confirmed Vozrozdenniy's report which is something big and flat hit with Zolotaryov with great force. I was explained by the modern coroners that the scapula, unless you make a Y cut on the back is not visible on the front. You need to be looking for something in particular to open a body from behind, and it was not done because the cause of death was found on the front - multiple fractures of Zolotaryov’s ribs with hemorrhaging into the pleural cavity were caused pre-mortem as an effect of a high-power impact to the chest. The forensic expert Sergey Nikitin said the same thing: "It was a powerful blow." So how did the exhumation help?
--- Quote from: ElizabethHarris on January 29, 2022, 11:27:03 AM ---But since we are at such a dead end
--- End quote ---
I am not at a dead end. There are things that could have caused this injuries and I am perplexed how everyone is overlooking them. I am now pointing at them and you are still at a dead end.
I summarized the theory in very broad strokes here: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1051.msg17199#msg17199
GlennM:
Teddy and Elizabeth,
I thank you for stimulating intelligent conversation and thought provoking comments. I sincerely mean this. Teddy, when I read 1079, I thought the fallen branch explanation was a very good one. Where I run into problems is that there was no fallen branch reported, yes? If the branch is associated with gross neglect and a cover up, would the tent show tree damage and would there be debris on and in the canvas? If a branch fell, why not use it for a fire? If a branch fell, why not photograph it? If there was criminal neglect involved, why stage an improbable scenario with not one but three locations? When the Russian government re opened the case, a fallen branch was never considered because it did not agree with the physical evidence.
I admire the scholarly work that is 1079. In the absence of other evidence, I believe the hikers kept to the high ground because the forest had such deep snow to plow through. I think only an event that produced a ground tremor would be sufficiently alarming to compel nine intelligent people to destroy their shelter, abandon their clothes and shoes. What I dont understand is how anyone in their right mind could walk a mile in an undressed state without coming to their senses. A fallen branch would be swift and certain, but that is not where the tent was.
Teddy:
--- Quote from: GlennM on January 29, 2022, 05:15:47 PM ---there was no fallen branch reported, yes?
--- End quote ---
No. No one was looking for one. The forest is full of fallen trees though. The bodies are moved to Ivdel morgue and back. Why do you expect them to be found under a branch?
ElizabethHarris:
Going to read what Teddy posted now. After doing some other reading, as grizzly as exhumation is, many cold cases have been solved as a result of the process. Most ppl are appalled by the idea of exhumation. Not sure why I'm not. But if Semyon's exhumation produced nothing and only became a topic of sensationalism and disrespect, then obviously I agree there is little to be had with the others and another of my ideas gets chucked out the window. But if Teddy says there is no dead end, then I've got my shovel ready to do some more digging. Damn, my arms are tired....
GlennM, other than the exhumation debacle, as per my other post, I was wondering what you thought about my speculations, knowing that you are convinced (???) or maybe leaning far to believing this was a natural accident. I want so badly to believe it was natural but as I said in my last post.... neg1
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