None of the theories are satisfying because they don't explain all of the facts of the case. But I will pick avalanche as the most likely. Two hikers were dressed much warmer than the others and that leads me to believe those two were outside of the tent when the drastic decision was made to leave immediately.
What were they doing outside the tent? Most likely trying to repair or shore it up because of the extremely adverse weather at the time. The slits in the tent then take on a new meaning. Some of the slits appear to be made so the hikers could look outside. I think that is partially true. I think the two hikers outside were communicating with those still inside through those slits. That implies a very dire situation if it is necessary to make slits in a tent to communicate with those inside.
The biggest slits in the tent indicate immediate escape through them. The only thing that makes sense here is the hikers thought an avalanche was already occurring. Sheer panic trumps rational thought.
The injuries, I believe, all happened after reaching the treeline. A real avalanche then occurred in that area and severely injured some of them. Others tried to go back to the perceived danger at the tent because there was no other option left.
Why communicate via slits cut in a tent when you can communicate by voice?
Why walk downslope when "escaping" an avalanche or expecting an imminent one? They would have walked to the side, out of the way of any potential avalanche.
Stay there for a few minutes, nothing happens, select a volunteer who then walks onto the suspected weakened snow area, tries to jump to see how weak it is. If the volunteer triggers a real avalanche, you have 8 healthy and able athletes to dig him out. No avalanche? The snowpack is stable, return to the tent. Walking into the very path of a potential avalanche makes no sense.
Well ok sorry, I'm not trying to nitpick and it's true the horizontal slits are there, not arguing the facts of the case, I just don't think these would have been the most rational reactions from their side. For example when they made the cuts, assuming the wind is so strong they can't hear those outside, they didn't know yet it's an avalanche. So I don't think they would have ruined the tent, their only shelter just to communicate about something before knowing it's something serious.
The idea is you need the horizontal slits because the howling wind is so bad. Tent fabric helps to block sound, and tent fabric fluttering in strong wind can make noise. And if the wind is that bad it lends support to the idea that two of the hikers needed to be outside to stabilize the tent. This is what is known as "trying to account for all the facts." You can't just cherry pick the facts or nitpick someone else for trying to explain a sequence of events that takes into account all the known information. The horizontal slits are there. My speculation about them offers a potential explanation.
Why walk downslope when escaping an avalanche? Because it is better than walking up to meet it! And where is this safe side that you are referring to? If it was so safe there why didn't they camp there? I doubt that anywhere is safe on that mountain.
Your suggestions presume to know what the hikers would have done in a situation we don't fully understand. When you use words like "They would have..." you are trying to limit the debate to just what you believe they would have done. The evidence is the only thing that can indicate what they did or what they were thinking.
Well ok sorry, I'm not trying to nitpick and it's true the horizontal slits are there, not arguing the facts of the case, I just don't think these would have been the most rational reactions from their side. For example when they made the cuts, assuming the wind is so strong they can't hear those outside, they didn't know yet it's an avalanche. So I don't think they would have ruined the tent, their only shelter just to communicate about something before knowing it's something serious.
The idea is you need the horizontal slits because the howling wind is so bad. Tent fabric helps to block sound, and tent fabric fluttering in strong wind can make noise. And if the wind is that bad it lends support to the idea that two of the hikers needed to be outside to stabilize the tent. This is what is known as "trying to account for all the facts." You can't just cherry pick the facts or nitpick someone else for trying to explain a sequence of events that takes into account all the known information. The horizontal slits are there. My speculation about them offers a potential explanation.
Why walk downslope when escaping an avalanche? Because it is better than walking up to meet it! And where is this safe side that you are referring to? If it was so safe there why didn't they camp there? I doubt that anywhere is safe on that mountain.
Your suggestions presume to know what the hikers would have done in a situation we don't fully understand. When you use words like "They would have..." you are trying to limit the debate to just what you believe they would have done. The evidence is the only thing that can indicate what they did or what they were thinking.
And I haven't been to the pass (yet!), so all I know is based on personal opinions of those who have been there, but these opinions are most often that it's simply not steep enough and too rocky / uneven for an avalanche to be probable.
But I'm just speculating like everyone else. There are also other facts of the case, for example the searchers were there on the same slope, walked and skied all over it, dug up a lot of areas looking for the Dyatlov Group. And yet they never triggered an avalanche. Maybe the snow conditions were different than at the time of the incident? For sure. Speculation (really, everything is), but based on the fact the bodies were under snow, the tent was under some snow, and it was still winter and no thaw occured between the incident and the search, the snow cover was most likely only thicker than during the incident, making an avalanche more and not less likely.
There is a reason that mountain has such a bad reputation and putting some sort of weather monitoring station there year round might solve the Dyatlov Pass mystery. We might find out what that mountain is really capable of in terms of natural danger to human life.There is a (small) weather monitoring station there I think, on top of the Boot Rock.
I hope the data is publicly available. I would be interested in seeing it.There is a reason that mountain has such a bad reputation and putting some sort of weather monitoring station there year round might solve the Dyatlov Pass mystery. We might find out what that mountain is really capable of in terms of natural danger to human life.There is a (small) weather monitoring station there I think, on top of the Boot Rock.
And one more thought about extremely bad weather the night of the Dyatlov Pass Incident: The hikers went down to the tree line. Why go there if the tent is still intact? The answer is to escape the weather conditions at the site of the tent. It does not explain why the hikers can't get dressed first, but it shows a need to escape the conditions at the tent.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00081-8 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00081-8)
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/video-avalanche-theory-for-dyatlov-pass-incident-is-bolstered-by-new-study/ (https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/video-avalanche-theory-for-dyatlov-pass-incident-is-bolstered-by-new-study/)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00081-8 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00081-8)
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/video-avalanche-theory-for-dyatlov-pass-incident-is-bolstered-by-new-study/ (https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/video-avalanche-theory-for-dyatlov-pass-incident-is-bolstered-by-new-study/)
We can safely dismiss all avalanche theories, as well as yeti-, infrasound, UFO and wolverine theories.
The injuries of the dead are not consistent with avalanches in any form or fashion, and there were no avalanches in the area.
They finish this section with: “It is also possible that the thorax injuries were the result of a later snow impact in a very steep ravine where the bodies of the victims escaping the avalanche were found.”I think the remaining seven sustained injuries during a later snow impact in a very steep ravine.
Translation: Oh, and by the way, if she did not die like that, she fell in the ravine.
That sounds more plausible but on all the photos I have seen of the ravine area, it is dense with undergrowth, which would stop the snow. And also not steep.
Four meters deep? How does that happen without an avalanche or serious collapse of snow?http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=90871
If they ravine 4 did use a naturally formed snow cave and it did collapse on top of them , there is a lot of evidence to explain their injuries. This includes broken ribs and fractures, the nature of the fractures , lack of frostbite compared to the other 5 along with other known differences in the autopsy.
If they ravine 4 did use a naturally formed snow cave and it did collapse on top of them , there is a lot of evidence to explain their injuries. This includes broken ribs and fractures, the nature of the fractures , lack of frostbite compared to the other 5 along with other known differences in the autopsy.
No, the injuries are not what can be expected from an avalanche.
The damaging of rib cages and pointed crushing of skulls seen in Slobodin and Thibeaux-Brignolle are consistent with injuries we see when people are killed by skilled close combat specialists. An avalanche would unlikely crush skulls and rib cages without damaging the limbs. The fracture pattern on the skull of Thibeaux-Brignolle immediately strikes one as having the shape of a rifle butt, and the fact that Dubinina and Zolotaryov had damaged rib cages with no dislocations or fractures of the limbs makes it pretty safe to exclude the avalanche and snow slad theories. Kolevatov's crushed larynx also is far from what one would find if heavy snow had caused the damage, and I myself have learned the technique in jiu jitsu. I also have learned that a trained fighting specialist very easily can break the rib cage of victims with forceful elbow strikes, and this technique leads to major internal bleeding, shock and death.
It is interesting that Zolotaryov and Dubinina, but not the two others found at the same place, had crushed rib cages. A probable explanation is that since the group almost certainly was attacked by professional killers, these professionals were grouped in three and three. One group took Zolotaryov and Dubinina, while another expedited Thibeaux-Brignolle and Kolevatov. Different methods were used, according to the situation and the resistance the hikers put up.
The nine hikers were at the wrong place at the wrong time, and had to pay dearly for that.
I'm sure injuries could be inflicted by other peopleИсключено.
I'm sure injuries could be inflicted by other peopleИсключено.
Переломы рёбер не просто множественные, а флотирующие по нескольким линиям:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=60069
or a tree.Отсутствие у четверых в ручье (в отличие от других пятерых) обморожений и пятен Вишневского свидетельствует, что они погибли быстро и одновременно. Но у Колеватова нет переломов. От чего он погиб, как не от асфиксии после обрушения снега? Никакое дерево на него точно не падало.
And then there’s where the bodies were carried, ostensibly by water alone. Yet, they still found discarded clothing in the den. Not only that, but the way the bodes of the three males were found, they offered the most resistance to the water flow, being horizontal to the flow rather than vertical, like Luda. And, the flow was still able to pick them up and carry them downstream, but not the clothing spread on the den floor?
They tried this theory back in 1959, and it didn’t hold. The fact that they keep circling back to it indicates a need to believe this or accept it is based on something other than the facts in the case. None of the people that saw the tent, many of them hikers themselves, thought that the snow covering was excessive for the time it was supposedly out there abandoned. The entrance wasn’t even blocked by snow, and there’s evidence that Zolotaryov and Nicolas were outside the tent and thus not in a position where they could have suffered the injuries they did. So, now we’re just going to relocate it to the ravine? I don’t have a problem with it being one of the theories on the table. But when it’s the one that investigators push at every turn despite very real problems with it, that’s when it starts getting suspicious.
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This is an underhanded tactic from the science field that I have sadly seen too many times. They write extremely technical, usually formula-heavy articles that are extremely hard for a layman to read. I sometimes wonder how many people start to read the article, find themselves in a bewildering forest of technobabble where they can’t even tell what point the paragraph is trying to make, and finally give up and decide that the people must know what they’re talking about because they’re super smart, and they did all those experiments, and it’s based on a computer model. Computers are never wrong. Nobody ever seems to be suspicious that the people writing the article are counting on that, because their technical jargon, computer models, and pages of of math equation are hiding several major problems that can be spotted with good, old-fashioned common sense once the scientific and intellectual veneer is pushed aside.
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No, the injuries are not what can be expected from an avalanche.
The damaging of rib cages and pointed crushing of skulls seen in Slobodin and Thibeaux-Brignolle are consistent with injuries we see when people are killed by skilled close combat specialists. An avalanche would unlikely crush skulls and rib cages without damaging the limbs. The fracture pattern on the skull of Thibeaux-Brignolle immediately strikes one as having the shape of a rifle butt, and the fact that Dubinina and Zolotaryov had damaged rib cages with no dislocations or fractures of the limbs makes it pretty safe to exclude the avalanche and snow slad theories. Kolevatov's crushed larynx also is far from what one would find if heavy snow had caused the damage, and I myself have learned the technique in jiu jitsu. I also have learned that a trained fighting specialist very easily can break the rib cage of victims with forceful elbow strikes, and this technique leads to major internal bleeding, shock and death.
It is interesting that Zolotaryov and Dubinina, but not the two others found at the same place, had crushed rib cages. A probable explanation is that since the group almost certainly was attacked by professional killers, these professionals were grouped in three and three. One group took Zolotaryov and Dubinina, while another expedited Thibeaux-Brignolle and Kolevatov. Different methods were used, according to the situation and the resistance the hikers put up.
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I agree with your observations winterleia.
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The ravine 4 injuries are explained well by Igor b. I am happy with his observations and reasoning. If it was a collapse of a snow bridge/cave they wouldn't be able to dig there way out, nor could anyone that was standing outside of the collapse dig them out. The nature of the snow would be like concrete. Maybe some of the others tried but had to give up.
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It is plausible....
If the ravine 4 did use a naturally formed snow cave and it did collapse on top of them , there is a lot of evidence to explain their injuries. This includes broken ribs and fractures, the nature of the fractures , lack of frostbite compared to the other 5 along with other known differences in the autopsy.
There were no skis remaining vertically in the snow. I agree, the tent wasn't moved. But the hikers put all their skis under the tent. The skis in the snow on the search photos have been put there by the searchers.
Absolutely ! The tent was pitched perpendiculary to the slope and and to the axis of a possible avalanche or slab slide, like a downwind sail... and was not removed. And also, there were skis remaining vertically stuck in the snow.
There were no skis remaining vertically in the snow. I agree, the tent wasn't moved. But the hikers put all their skis under the tent. The skis in the snow on the search photos have been put there by the searchers.
Absolutely ! The tent was pitched perpendiculary to the slope and and to the axis of a possible avalanche or slab slide, like a downwind sail... and was not removed. And also, there were skis remaining vertically stuck in the snow.
Опровержение любого обрушения снега на палатку:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=65874
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=107249
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=108064
If nine people are in a tent which is compressed by even a modest amount of snow, the collapsed portion creates an immediate suffocation hazard. There need not be any additional injuries. Clearing the tent and keeping warm are the most important concerns. It would be better to evacuate the area, get a fire going and return later to patch up and reorganize the camp. Firewood was only found in the woods below. The nine hikers did the right thing by getting off the slope. They had no control of wind, temperature and lighting. These ,they misjudged. It may well have been that instead of following Igor's lead, they started to do things by majority rule, then individual determination. Cold dulls the senses and lack of warmth and food makes it worse.
It would be better to evacuate the area, get a fire going and return later to patch up and reorganize the camp. Firewood was only found in the woods below. The nine hikers did the right thing by getting off the slope.
I now think the simplest of all things happened. This view is not popular because of the emotions people have around nine youthful hikers dying a horrible death. It just doesn't seem fair, and it wasn't.
Theres not enough snow to create an avalanche in my opinion