Theories Discussion > Avalanche

You want avalanches? Here we go

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Tim:
 Here me out, The avalanche theory has been totally contaminated by the disregard of the two photos which show clearly the exterior snowscape at the top of the wall is higher the the interior finished floor of the tent at the time the photo was taken. which is a faulty grade. In a rainy senecio the tent would probably flood or at least take on some water.  Here is what I propose happened which has never been offered up before. The one taking the photo who is on a higher elevation yells to the team member who looks up. If it were an emergency there would be no photo as everyone would be pitching in to get the tent ready.  After the tent is set up a few team members went in side to prepare for the evening while the others are secure the tent and are packing the snow on and around the tent.  Mountaineering 101, build a snow wall to protect the tent and its occupants. But by compacting the snow in these conditions is a fatal mistake which causes the surface to freeze. This would be ok but the men are not satisfied with the height of the wall because the winds are really picking up, so they take their skis and pull down as much snow as they can to build a higher wall and then compact that...What they could not know is the new snow they brought down is now free standing on is own. But as soon as the winds reach gale force and now aided by gravity, a section of the wall slams into and onto the hikers and Zina takes a direct hit on her side. Because they are stunned and cannot move lateral to the entrance they cut themselves out which can been seen in the tent cuts. Humans cut horizontal and vertical, these appear to be done from on their sides. Once they are out and now are at deaths door step, the other section of the wall slides onto the tent covering up there gear. They try with their hands and even break a ski pole but they are not at the beach  and the elements are starting to take its tole on their hands. They come to a decision very quickly  to move as fast as they can to the forest and start a fire.  The two Yuri’s sprint ahead to start a fire and the team can only move as fast as they can in gale force winds. But they do reach it quicker than one would expect or they would of died on the slopes.  The theory satisfies why they left without their gear..Lastly Only a gale force wind can uncover raised foot prints and also the time it takes to blow away critical snow and the previous elevation from on and  around the tent.  Note: Even if they were able to retrieve their gear by the time they find what’s what and how do we fix the tent with frozen hands. It was logical to gamble at the forest with a fire and reassess things in the morning.  Their are chunks of measurable snow on the tent with shadows....

RidgeWatcher:
I spent time in dangerous avalanche country in Alaska for many years. The Inupiat and Athabaskans have at least 32 words for snow and ice and layers of snow and ice. Avalanche theory in Alaska is a science and an art form studied at the Universities. Many SAR and Health practitioners take avalanche courses out in the field. I respect the skills, history and experience of the Dyatlov hikers to choose a proper slope setting for their tent. All winter long, roads are closed temporarily, to blast unstable grades/mountains of snow. I trust the photos and the SAR (search and rescue) members at the time to adequately dispel any theories of avalanche.

It has been some years since I was into this subject but I was fairly interested and talked to many people from around the world. The avalanche theory is out. I always felt that the person who started and adhered to the avalanche theory as being a beginner.

My Swiss friends have a saying "If a cow can't stand up on the snow grade then a person shouldn't be there either". Makes a lot of sense. When you are on a slope with your eyes, your experience with the snow and your intelligence then you know if you belong there or not. I remember traveling with friends and seeing snowmobilers doing runs up a short hill by the roadway and we all thought they were idiots because of the steepness and the snow pack. The next day several were were killed in the same area from a small load but very heavy avalanche.

Thomas Spriggs in his book "Into Nowhere" in the last pages, performs an interesting test with the Dyatlov group and the SAR rescuer photos. Mr. Spriggs flips photos, and them lays them on top of each each other, using a double exposure technique. The tent, poles, skies and other Dyatlov hiker debris. They are exactly the same place and position from the building of the site to the rescue mission.

I have changed my critical thinking regarding the Dyatlol Pass deaths since I have been on this site (many great posts), such as, I now strongly believe the that Dyatlov knew his hikers would be safer above the treeline.

The hikers spent too much time fixing rips and tears in the tent each evening (ad nauseam) to not weigh the consequences of pitching the tent above the treeline, up a mountain versus below in the trees.

I keep seeing that darkened figure coming out behind the trees, what if, the Dyatlov hiker who took that photo just before climbing the pass, was the ONLY hiker to see that person, and wasn't sure what they saw, at least until the photos would be processed back in Yetaterinburg. The photographer was certainly the last in the line and the unknown man could quickly move back behind the trees easily. With 9 hikers on skis there would have been enough noise to drown out the unknown man's quick retreating sounds.

What if they told the group they had seen a non-Mansi or non-Khanty man behind the trees and the group made fun of them by writing about Sasquatch/Yeti in the Evening Otorton. Knowing the Evening Otorten may be reviewed by the University back home they tried to keep the subject light.

Looking at the map, they knew where the Lovza River was and where Mount Otorten was. I don't think Dyatlov was high on the side of the mountain for a better look in the morning, which may not offer a view in the morning because of the weather. If they were hiking purely for time, even though they went further than needed, they still would have stayed lower and further towards the opposite side of the tree line without the unnecessary climb high up. There was never any guarantee that the higher tent site would offer a better morning view of Mt. Otorten and this was probably discussed among the group. Living in Alaska makes you a "worst case scenario" kind of person. I would be "Hey Igor this makes no sense, why go higher, no guarantee for a better morning view". With all due respect.

sparrow:
Hi RidgeWatcher.

I was wondering if they camped where they did so as to get a jump on their hike the next morning.  I not sure that I have ever seen a map that shows their location in relation to Mt. Otorten.  That was my GUESS. undec1

 

RidgeWatcher:
Thank you, Sparrow,

Dyatlov Pass is between Mount Kholat Syakhl (1079) and to the northwest 880 mountain. What is also required to analyze the "higher mountain/easier morning start" scenario is present weather versus possible morning weather (no NOAA doppler radar in 1959) and altitude.
 
Was the late afternoon altitude climb worth it? What was the advantage versus traversing Boot Rock area and hiking north over Dyatlov Pass to the tree line. Look at the photos and ask yourself what would you have done? Remember they had a late start after constructing the cache.

Was the late afternoon altitude climb worth it, knowing about the wind and just a little wood for the stove? They had to know it would be a colder and a much windier night by climbing up towards the peak.

I wouldn't have climbed in altitude for an easier morning start, would you?

I really feel the trouble started before they left the tree line above the cache area, the photos showed a calm and cohesive hiking group and tent set-up, but I think that at least one of the hikers had sensed or saw something was amiss and then Dyatlov had interpreted this for a need to gain a higher elevation even with a potentially more dangerous altitude and wind exposure. The tent site was a strategic vantage point.

RidgeWatcher:
Hello Sparrow,

I remember pinpointing Kholat Syakhl the hard way using early google earth, the resolutions were terrible but in those days you could pinpoint and stand apon any mountain in the Urals (or anywhere) for free. I followed the Dyatlov hikers diaries and calculated distances. Manpupunar was found this way also, a group of the most beautiful rocks you will ever see. Then I bought a Rand-McNally 1962 World Atlas in a thrift store for two dollars. I was stunned to see that it had far more detail and clarity in even the smaller creeks and streams. I remember questioning how this could be and then someone told me that the Rand-McNally was mapped at the hight of the Cold War when there were a lot of U.S. spy planes, mapping and collecting data on Russia and Siberia. The U.S. was spying and wanted to know what was being manufactured in the factories and gulags besides mining and forestry. U.S. pilot Frances Gary Powers was shot down near Sverdlovsk the is how much spying was being performed at the time by the C.I.A. trying to fully map the infrastructure.
I think I have read, maybe here, that the Dyatlov Hikers were supposed to go one more snow canyon to the north and then turn left (west), and bypass Kholat Syakhl completely. If anyone has information on that please let me know. If this is true they would never have had to hike up and over Dyatlov Pass at all.

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