Recent Posts

71

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by Ziljoe on April 09, 2024, 09:19:39 AM »

I don't entirely agree with your conclusions, I openly admit I could be wrong. Emergency medicine ( I don't fully understand) but there was no emergency medicine? It's the aftermath that is described in the autopsy. There is lose snow and hard snow . If you're hand are compromised, frozen or freezing, your hands do not open to to fall on your palms , they start to freeze, they become fists the wrist will freeze, mobility of all joints are compromised. We can see this in the photos of Dyatlov, Zina and Rustem. We can also see this in other hypothermia victims.

The reported bleeding has possible other explanations , hypothermia is a complex issue.

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General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by gunmat on April 09, 2024, 08:46:37 AM »

I believe that the best people to determine what causes what injuries are experts in emergency medicine. Some conclusions can be drawn by us ordinary people. They didn't walk into a rockery, but into loose snow. If you fall, you land on your palms, not with clenched fists. The bleeding in the left temporal muscle was not frostbite, but the result of a blow to the head. That blow could only have come from something hitting him on the head. It doesn't necessarily have to be evidence of an attack from someone else, but something hit him on the head.

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General Discussion / Re: Survival programs as a resource.

« Last post by Ziljoe on April 09, 2024, 08:28:39 AM »

I agree, I think the main injuries happened at the ceder/ ravine. It just took one of them to fall through a steam Ice bridge  or build a snow cave and things escalate from there.

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General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by Ziljoe on April 09, 2024, 08:26:08 AM »

I think the full link exists, but it will take time to find. Much of this has been discussed before. Death by hypothermia causes many of the reported injuries found on the DP9. This includes, hemorrhages , marks on hand , legs etc. The fight for life continues even when limbs start to freeze. That includes crawling on hands and knees, falling , pushing the body to its extreme to survive. Hand dexterity will fail , that includes the ability to redo button's on pockets, to hold things etc.

75

General Discussion / Re: Wonder If...

« Last post by gunmat on April 09, 2024, 06:50:33 AM »

"Thank you for the link. I've only read the abstract and it's not enough. Do you have the full article? It seems strange to me that the skull didn't open along the sutures if the expansion of soft tissue caused it to crack. The fracture goes through the frontal lobe, which is the most robust of all skull bones. I believe the autopsy reports need to be carefully read, something I will do when I have time, after getting them translated directly from Russian to Norwegian to avoid semantic issues when reading the reports via English. Slobodin had 'Hemorrhages in the temporal muscles', indicating external blows. I'm not an expert on head injuries. Nevertheless, I believe some conclusions can be drawn from examinations conducted by forensic experts."

76

General Discussion / Re: The Last Leg

« Last post by GlennM on April 08, 2024, 08:02:30 PM »

The tree theory has its merits, primarily for shelter and access to firewood and water. A blowdown or a random fall is certainly possible. The hikers are not going to tie off on a loose tree, surely. A nearby tree could fall and perhaps even cause injuries suggested in Teddy's theory. Of course there are things that argue against it such as the physical locations of the hikers and the tent. No blood or tree residue was noted on the tent.

What I find compelling is the labaz. It is above Dyatlov Pass. That pass should have been taken in order for the hikers to camp at the cedar. But apparantly they did not cross there. So I imagine that they crossed over in the high ground. Now, looking ahead to Ortoten, who would deliberately turn away from it and go downslope to the forest, only to fight their way back up to Ortoten? No, they had won the high ground, but were beaten back by the weather, losing a day. Surely they felt that they could get to their goal without losing ground. It was a good idea. Nature is indifferent to ideas.

77

General Discussion / Re: Survival programs as a resource.

« Last post by WinterLeia on April 08, 2024, 07:48:20 PM »

Well, if they didn’t get injured at the tent, which I don’t believe, obviously something else happened. I don’t know that it had anything to do with their feet or even falling in the ravine. But my post was mainly aimed at the fact that I think Yudin was most definitely overstating his case, and Luda’s toes were frostbitten. In fact, she seems to have wrapped a piece of clothing around one foot in a desperate attempt to save it. Nicolai and Semyon, meanwhile, were not wearing just socks. They also had felt boots and the autopsy doesn’t say anything about the state of their toes, except they had bath skin, which is from laying in water. But I think with everything that was happening, between hypothermia, frostbitten hands, possibly frostbitten toes, whatever happened at the tent, it being dark and cold, not to mention the overwhelming feelings of fear, sadness, and hopelessness they might have been experiencing at  that point, I don’t find it hard to believe they might have taken a misstep or done something to cause the snow den to cave in on them while they were building it or climbing into it. They were in a hostile environment, unprepared, and probably not operating at top form. Anything could have happened. This takes nothing away from them. They were not invincible, and they could have simply been overwhelmed with too many things going wrong in succession, before they had much of a chance to recover from the last thing that had went wrong.

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General Discussion / Re: Survival programs as a resource.

« Last post by Ziljoe on April 08, 2024, 06:59:54 PM »

The evidence shows that you can walk in socks for a long time. It shows in the video links.

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General Discussion / Re: Survival programs as a resource.

« Last post by WinterLeia on April 08, 2024, 06:14:51 PM »

Well, I was only out there for about five or six minutes. If I had been walking around in the snow for as long as the Dyatlov group likely was, I probably wouldn’t have feet anymore.

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General Discussion / Re: Survival programs as a resource.

« Last post by Ziljoe on April 08, 2024, 05:47:07 PM »

I can't say I disagree WinterLeia but it seems that wearing socks ,in snow does  not lead to cold feet. Wetness does, maybe not instant cold feet but will compromise heat retention. The only difference between a boot/ shoe is the sole( for walking on) and the water proofness of the boot. If you pack too many socks on your feet and then put them in a boot that's too small , you will get cold feet. You stop the blood circulation and you stop the air pockets in the socks / boot. Layers must have air. The only real compromise in wearing socks is what you place your feet on.