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Author Topic: Exploring The Yeti Theory  (Read 54502 times)

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August 20, 2020, 04:19:58 PM
Reply #510
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Georgi




Well injuries consistent with a fight do not specify punches to the face. Anyway there is enough information to suggest some kind of violence. But what kind of violence  ?  We know that wild animals behave differently in a fight scenario. We are exploring the Yeti theory, so how would a Yeti behave  ?  Thats a tricky question because we dont even know if they exist. So once again its anyones guess.
The broken nose(s), the bruises to the cheeks, facial injuries and injuries the to the hands suggest a fight, the facial injuries suggest they were punched in the face. If their hands are an indication, the valance was up close and personal, the kind of fight I would not want to have with a creature that can break 10 ribs with one punch, if their faces are added to the mix, a fight with a Yeti would have ended quickly and at the tent for at least a couple of them. And just as you pointed out, we don't even know if it exists so we cannot judge its physical attributes, therefore we cannot use a yeti as the cause of the massive injuries.

August 20, 2020, 04:44:58 PM
Reply #511
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Georgi




A man about 650 lbs jumping 6 foot into them might have done it.?
Are your ribs made of titanium? I've had a rib broken and it definitely didn't take 650 pound guy jumping on me.

Quote
Yuri D climbing the tree without the use of his hands doesnt sound like something a person would do to just to show team spirit.  He may have been hauled up the tree partly by his friends. 
Yeah, because trying to increase his friends chances of survival is simply known as team spirit. You obviously haven't worked with people who are selfless and will fight to the bitter end to make sure their friends are ok even if they know they are dying. He wouldn't be the first guy who digs deep to help out his friends, especially if that was the only thing he could do.

Quote
There are plenty of photographs and grainy video, but none of this is valid as evidence.  A body or significant body part is what science demands as evidence, and this is understandable.
Yeah, so no evidence.

Quote
I have looked at all the different theories rationally, and my conclusion is that there isn't a rational explanation.  For the attack murder scenario, there is alot that doesn't add up.  In particular the cameras and why they were left.  Another is the extreme lengths that the attackers would have had to go to create the illusion of an accident, or some other issue. 
If they take the camera's it becomes obvious it was murder. If they took the money it becomes obvious it was murder. If they took the watches it becomes obvious it was murder. The whole point of murdering someone and making it look like an accident is so nobody asks the right questions. If they were certain that the hikers had not gotten a picture of the attackers before that night they would not need to worry about the camera's and as for the camera on Zolotaryov? We have no evidence it was on him before he died, throwing a camera on a body adds to the confusion. Do you think this would be the first time someone killed a bunch of people and tried to pass it off as an accident? If they had stabbed them or slit their throats we would not be discussing what happened but we would be asking who did it. If they had shot them out of hand we would not be discussing if it was the Yeti, a UFO or an Avalanche we would be wondering why someone had firearms in the forest. Make the scene as confusing as possible and then throw in random "clues" that point to different theories. That was their ultimate goal and they had plenty of time to cover their tracks.


Can you answer the following questions:
Why then?
Why there?
Why them?
Why didn't it follow them down the slope?
Why attack the tent, wait up words to 6 hours and then attack them 1.6km from the tent to finish the job?
Why didn't any of the search party run into the yeti?
Why didn't anyone over the last 60 years run into the yeti out of the hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of people who went through the region?

Why did the hikers cover so little terrain that day?
Why did the hikers camp on the slope?

August 20, 2020, 05:03:16 PM
Reply #512
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
...............................................
For the attack murder scenario, there is alot that doesn't add up.  In particular the cameras and why they were left.  Another is the extreme lengths that the attackers would have had to go to create the illusion of an accident, or some other issue. 

I do not agree : I have looked at all the different theories rationally, and my conclusion is that there is only one possibility that is plausible, and that is the one summarized by :

hoosiergose : General Discussion / Re: We may never really know what happened   => on June 07, 2020, 12:14:23 AM  ---> Reply #31

    "They came under attack - human attackers."

The next more interesting questions are "WHY ?" and “WHO ?”.

I have been influenced by several intervenors who have strong arguments, I cannot quote them all here, here are 4 for example:

Eduard Tumanov
"..The 9 hikers took part in three fights against outsiders..."

Per Inge Oestmoen  :  180 posts from March 12, 2018   to   March 07, 2020,
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;u=325;area=showposts;start=0

Sabine  (Sabine Lechtenfeld)
"...My chain of arguments is based on the assumption that Lyuda's facial disfigurations were the work of perpetrators who mutilated her deliberately after she died".

Aleks Kandr   On his website which is written in Russian (I use :  https://translate.yandex.com/)
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova

I now believe that DPI is a massacre that falls into the broad category, from the standpoint of history, of terrorist action.

A terrorist attack is an unwritten message addressed to the enemies to signify to them: See how determined we are - See how wicked we are - So beware: do not antagonize us. The perpetrators of a terrorist attack do not want their action to look like an accident.

DPI is a terrorist action sponsored by one or more senior leaders or commanders of the many Gulag camps in the Ivdel region.
This or these Stalinist commanders, who were powerful on the regional scale of the oblast, were naturally violently opposed to the policy of dismantling the Gulag ordered by Khrushchev from 1953 (a difficult dismantling which lasted until Brezhnev came to power in 1964).

The nine unfortunate young Soviet and apparently completely apolitical hikers were bearers of a kind of official pass (the voucher) designating them de facto as agents of influence sent by Moscow, in connection with the 21st Congress of the CPSU: 27th January-5th February 1959 (the 20th Congress of the CPSU in 1956 had been the official announcement of the destalinization).

The mercenaries hired, probably former camp guards recently put out of work, were able to easily follow the deep trail left by the 9 skiers and reach the tent in only one day's skiing from their North-2 base, to launch a surprise attack at nightfall, February 1, 1959, around 8 p.m.

But the murderers had no firearms, only blunt objects, wooden clubs, and their task was difficult....

This discussion should continue in the topic that is normally intended, that is: 
Altercation on the pass -> Altercation on the pass
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.30

I will have to have another read through the thread when I get time.

Regards

Star man

August 20, 2020, 05:23:27 PM
Reply #513
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


A man about 650 lbs jumping 6 foot into them might have done it.?
Are your ribs made of titanium? I've had a rib broken and it definitely didn't take 650 pound guy jumping on me.

Quote
Yuri D climbing the tree without the use of his hands doesnt sound like something a person would do to just to show team spirit.  He may have been hauled up the tree partly by his friends. 
Yeah, because trying to increase his friends chances of survival is simply known as team spirit. You obviously haven't worked with people who are selfless and will fight to the bitter end to make sure their friends are ok even if they know they are dying. He wouldn't be the first guy who digs deep to help out his friends, especially if that was the only thing he could do.

Quote
There are plenty of photographs and grainy video, but none of this is valid as evidence.  A body or significant body part is what science demands as evidence, and this is understandable.
Yeah, so no evidence.

Quote
I have looked at all the different theories rationally, and my conclusion is that there isn't a rational explanation.  For the attack murder scenario, there is alot that doesn't add up.  In particular the cameras and why they were left.  Another is the extreme lengths that the attackers would have had to go to create the illusion of an accident, or some other issue. 
If they take the camera's it becomes obvious it was murder. If they took the money it becomes obvious it was murder. If they took the watches it becomes obvious it was murder. The whole point of murdering someone and making it look like an accident is so nobody asks the right questions. If they were certain that the hikers had not gotten a picture of the attackers before that night they would not need to worry about the camera's and as for the camera on Zolotaryov? We have no evidence it was on him before he died, throwing a camera on a body adds to the confusion. Do you think this would be the first time someone killed a bunch of people and tried to pass it off as an accident? If they had stabbed them or slit their throats we would not be discussing what happened but we would be asking who did it. If they had shot them out of hand we would not be discussing if it was the Yeti, a UFO or an Avalanche we would be wondering why someone had firearms in the forest. Make the scene as confusing as possible and then throw in random "clues" that point to different theories. That was their ultimate goal and they had plenty of time to cover their tracks.


Can you answer the following questions:
Why then?
Why there?
Why them?
Why didn't it follow them down the slope?
Why attack the tent, wait up words to 6 hours and then attack them 1.6km from the tent to finish the job?
Why didn't any of the search party run into the yeti?
Why didn't anyone over the last 60 years run into the yeti out of the hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of people who went through the region?

Why did the hikers cover so little terrain that day?
Why did the hikers camp on the slope?

Breaking one rib is not so difficult.  Breaking 10 in one go and causing a flail chest requires much more force.as described.  Its an order of magnitude difference.

I do not doubt that Yuri D was selfless and wanted to help his friends, but what could he achieve once he had climbed the tree given the state of his hands?  Its unlikely he could have done much to help even if he wanted to. 

There is no definitive evidence of the existence of big foot.  This is correct.  But an interesting question is why are there so many eye witness accounts and stories, tge foot print evidence is extensive.  Why?

Think about this what factual evidence is there that they were attacked by humans?  Fist fights could have been amongst themselves due to stress of the situation.  What evidence is there of outsiders being involved? 

I've run out of time now so will have to answer your other questions when I get a chance later.

Regards

Star man

August 21, 2020, 12:11:07 AM
Reply #514
Offline

sparrow


It could also have been one or more someones wanted the use of the tent and just wanted the hikers out.  They would have to leave as dressed but the "bad guys" would not have cared about the camera (if that is what that is in the picture). They also would not have cared about the fate of the hikers after they were forced out.  I am not saying I believe this because I still have not made up my mind. It is just the beginning of yet another theory.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 12:27:20 AM by sparrow »

August 21, 2020, 05:16:56 PM
Reply #515
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


A man about 650 lbs jumping 6 foot into them might have done it.?
Are your ribs made of titanium? I've had a rib broken and it definitely didn't take 650 pound guy jumping on me.

Quote
Yuri D climbing the tree without the use of his hands doesnt sound like something a person would do to just to show team spirit.  He may have been hauled up the tree partly by his friends. 
Yeah, because trying to increase his friends chances of survival is simply known as team spirit. You obviously haven't worked with people who are selfless and will fight to the bitter end to make sure their friends are ok even if they know they are dying. He wouldn't be the first guy who digs deep to help out his friends, especially if that was the only thing he could do.

Quote
There are plenty of photographs and grainy video, but none of this is valid as evidence.  A body or significant body part is what science demands as evidence, and this is understandable.
Yeah, so no evidence.

Quote
I have looked at all the different theories rationally, and my conclusion is that there isn't a rational explanation.  For the attack murder scenario, there is alot that doesn't add up.  In particular the cameras and why they were left.  Another is the extreme lengths that the attackers would have had to go to create the illusion of an accident, or some other issue. 
If they take the camera's it becomes obvious it was murder. If they took the money it becomes obvious it was murder. If they took the watches it becomes obvious it was murder. The whole point of murdering someone and making it look like an accident is so nobody asks the right questions. If they were certain that the hikers had not gotten a picture of the attackers before that night they would not need to worry about the camera's and as for the camera on Zolotaryov? We have no evidence it was on him before he died, throwing a camera on a body adds to the confusion. Do you think this would be the first time someone killed a bunch of people and tried to pass it off as an accident? If they had stabbed them or slit their throats we would not be discussing what happened but we would be asking who did it. If they had shot them out of hand we would not be discussing if it was the Yeti, a UFO or an Avalanche we would be wondering why someone had firearms in the forest. Make the scene as confusing as possible and then throw in random "clues" that point to different theories. That was their ultimate goal and they had plenty of time to cover their tracks.


Can you answer the following questions:
Why then?
Why there?
Why them?
Why didn't it follow them down the slope?
Why attack the tent, wait up words to 6 hours and then attack them 1.6km from the tent to finish the job?
Why didn't any of the search party run into the yeti?
Why didn't anyone over the last 60 years run into the yeti out of the hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of people who went through the region?

Why did the hikers cover so little terrain that day?
Why did the hikers camp on the slope?

In terms of why then, there and them. I don't think there would be any particular reason.  Such creatures are suppose to be very elusive and encounters are few and far between, and more likely random.  If there was such a creature there then it was probably more out of curiosity. 

Again if such a creature was there it was probably curious and may have followed them down the slope at a distance.  However, if the hikers showed  aggression towards it then maybe it would reciprocate that aggression.  That's a possibility and would explain tge delay.  Also the fire at the cedar may have deterred it, but in tge ravine there was no fire.

The search party didn't encounter it because the encounters are rare, and maybe tge search party sparked greater caution in them.

Why did the campers cover little ground on the last day and camp on the slope.  Who knows, the weather was bad, they were tired, visibility low and the path dangerous.  Or maybe they had seen something and wanted to stay away from the tree line.  That night they reported it in the satirical pamphlet.

This is all hypothetical.  There is evidence that fits the scario, but no definit8ve evidence of a Yeti (found so far).

Regards

Star man

August 23, 2020, 02:09:00 AM
Reply #516
Offline

sparrow


The hikers may not have covered much ground due to building the den earlier in the day.

August 24, 2020, 12:10:42 PM
Reply #517
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


Well injuries consistent with a fight do not specify punches to the face. Anyway there is enough information to suggest some kind of violence. But what kind of violence  ?  We know that wild animals behave differently in a fight scenario. We are exploring the Yeti theory, so how would a Yeti behave  ?  Thats a tricky question because we dont even know if they exist. So once again its anyones guess.
The broken nose(s), the bruises to the cheeks, facial injuries and injuries the to the hands suggest a fight, the facial injuries suggest they were punched in the face. If their hands are an indication, the valance was up close and personal, the kind of fight I would not want to have with a creature that can break 10 ribs with one punch, if their faces are added to the mix, a fight with a Yeti would have ended quickly and at the tent for at least a couple of them. And just as you pointed out, we don't even know if it exists so we cannot judge its physical attributes, therefore we cannot use a yeti as the cause of the massive injuries.

Still doesnt prove that there were punches to the faces. And just because we cant judge a Yetis physical attributes doesnt mean we can dismiss a Yeti attack of some kind.
DB

August 24, 2020, 04:12:19 PM
Reply #518
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
 If a Yeti matching the descriptions of the many eye witness accounts was there, then it could have caused the injuries.  A large gorilla could do it.

Regards

Star man

August 25, 2020, 01:03:24 PM
Reply #519
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If a Yeti matching the descriptions of the many eye witness accounts was there, then it could have caused the injuries.  A large gorilla could do it.

Regards

Star man

Yes if the classic eye witness account of shape and size and speed to depict a large Yeti type creature is taken into account then many of the injuries could be explained.  But what about missing eyes and tongue. And according to many of the animal mutilations Worldwide, many of those injuries are described as of a surgical nature.
DB

August 25, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
Reply #520
Online

marieuk


The hikers may not have covered much ground due to building the den earlier in the day.

Yes I wondered this too.  What if  one of them really had seen something that scared them in the forest and their plan to keep them safe was to build the den/hideaway and to pitch the tent away from the trees thinking it would be safer there and enable them to see anything approaching them.  Maybe the cedar tree was the agreed meeting point? 

August 25, 2020, 04:09:26 PM
Reply #521
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If a Yeti matching the descriptions of the many eye witness accounts was there, then it could have caused the injuries.  A large gorilla could do it.

Regards

Star man

Yes if the classic eye witness account of shape and size and speed to depict a large Yeti type creature is taken into account then many of the injuries could be explained.  But what about missing eyes and tongue. And according to many of the animal mutilations Worldwide, many of those injuries are described as of a surgical nature.

There aren't many examples of great ape human attacks but from those that have happened the injuries are consistent.  Apes have a habit of facial mutilation, when they attack each other too.  Not so sure about surgical precision though.

Regards

Star man

August 25, 2020, 04:30:39 PM
Reply #522
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The hikers may not have covered much ground due to building the den earlier in the day.

Yes I wondered this too.  What if  one of them really had seen something that scared them in the forest and their plan to keep them safe was to build the den/hideaway and to pitch the tent away from the trees thinking it would be safer there and enable them to see anything approaching them.  Maybe the cedar tree was the agreed meeting point?

Its possible.  Of course there are other explanations too. 

There is evidence that matches an attack by some kind of large ape.  Its not definitive evidence of a Yeti though.

Here is an interesting question:  How does one explain the 10,000+ eye witness accounts of Bigfoot, Yeti etc?  Mass hysteria?  Mistaken identity? Hoax? Trick of the light?  10,000+ examples of this?  Also anatomists and anthropologists risking their reputations in support of the foot print evidence, explaing the anatomy of the feet, including crippled examples of foot casts. 

How does one explain families leaving their homes never to return claiming that a Bigfoot tried to snatch their child?  How does one explain credible people re-living the trauma of their encounters as post traumatic stress when they tell their story?

As one of those anthropologists said - either there is a large unknown primate in existence or it is the biggest most elaborate  hoax ever orchestrated.

Its interesting at least.

Regards

Star man

August 26, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Reply #523
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If a Yeti matching the descriptions of the many eye witness accounts was there, then it could have caused the injuries.  A large gorilla could do it.

Regards

Star man


Yes if the classic eye witness account of shape and size and speed to depict a large Yeti type creature is taken into account then many of the injuries could be explained.  But what about missing eyes and tongue. And according to many of the animal mutilations Worldwide, many of those injuries are described as of a surgical nature.

There aren't many examples of great ape human attacks but from those that have happened the injuries are consistent.  Apes have a habit of facial mutilation, when they attack each other too.  Not so sure about surgical precision though.

Regards

Star man

Yes Apes dont mess around with surgical precision. So what about the idea that maybe we are talking of a Big Foot type creature or creatures and that these are related to UFO and Cattle Mutilation phenomena. Could there be a link. Iam exploring that idea in the Extraterestrial Topic.
DB

August 26, 2020, 12:20:01 PM
Reply #524
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The hikers may not have covered much ground due to building the den earlier in the day.

Yes I wondered this too.  What if  one of them really had seen something that scared them in the forest and their plan to keep them safe was to build the den/hideaway and to pitch the tent away from the trees thinking it would be safer there and enable them to see anything approaching them.  Maybe the cedar tree was the agreed meeting point?

Its possible.  Of course there are other explanations too. 

There is evidence that matches an attack by some kind of large ape.  Its not definitive evidence of a Yeti though.

Here is an interesting question:  How does one explain the 10,000+ eye witness accounts of Bigfoot, Yeti etc?  Mass hysteria?  Mistaken identity? Hoax? Trick of the light?  10,000+ examples of this?  Also anatomists and anthropologists risking their reputations in support of the foot print evidence, explaing the anatomy of the feet, including crippled examples of foot casts. 

How does one explain families leaving their homes never to return claiming that a Bigfoot tried to snatch their child?  How does one explain credible people re-living the trauma of their encounters as post traumatic stress when they tell their story?

As one of those anthropologists said - either there is a large unknown primate in existence or it is the biggest most elaborate  hoax ever orchestrated.

Its interesting at least.

Regards

Star man

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Or at least one of the nails. Years ago I took an interest in Big Cats In Britain. For many years people had been reporting having seen large felines roaming the countryside of Britain. Reports of Black Panthers and such like. So I carried out an investigation in Sussex, England. I was very surprised with the findings. Hundreds of reports over several years. And the witnesses seemed to be sensible down to earth people. Nurses, Business men, Farmers, Game Keepers and even a Policeman once reported to me after he and his wife had seen a big black cat looking out of an hole in the ground while they were out walking their dog one early evening. Stories like this kept on coming. Eventually I had to conclude that either all those people were nuts or were telling the truth. I concluded that most of them were telling the truth. Occasionally people mistake a Black Panther for a Black Labrador dog, thats why I had to take a long time to come to the conclusion. To sift the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
DB

August 26, 2020, 03:48:10 PM
Reply #525
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The hikers may not have covered much ground due to building the den earlier in the day.

Yes I wondered this too.  What if  one of them really had seen something that scared them in the forest and their plan to keep them safe was to build the den/hideaway and to pitch the tent away from the trees thinking it would be safer there and enable them to see anything approaching them.  Maybe the cedar tree was the agreed meeting point?

Its possible.  Of course there are other explanations too. 

There is evidence that matches an attack by some kind of large ape.  Its not definitive evidence of a Yeti though.

Here is an interesting question:  How does one explain the 10,000+ eye witness accounts of Bigfoot, Yeti etc?  Mass hysteria?  Mistaken identity? Hoax? Trick of the light?  10,000+ examples of this?  Also anatomists and anthropologists risking their reputations in support of the foot print evidence, explaing the anatomy of the feet, including crippled examples of foot casts. 

How does one explain families leaving their homes never to return claiming that a Bigfoot tried to snatch their child?  How does one explain credible people re-living the trauma of their encounters as post traumatic stress when they tell their story?

As one of those anthropologists said - either there is a large unknown primate in existence or it is the biggest most elaborate  hoax ever orchestrated.

Its interesting at least.

Regards

Star man

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Or at least one of the nails. Years ago I took an interest in Big Cats In Britain. For many years people had been reporting having seen large felines roaming the countryside of Britain. Reports of Black Panthers and such like. So I carried out an investigation in Sussex, England. I was very surprised with the findings. Hundreds of reports over several years. And the witnesses seemed to be sensible down to earth people. Nurses, Business men, Farmers, Game Keepers and even a Policeman once reported to me after he and his wife had seen a big black cat looking out of an hole in the ground while they were out walking their dog one early evening. Stories like this kept on coming. Eventually I had to conclude that either all those people were nuts or were telling the truth. I concluded that most of them were telling the truth. Occasionally people mistake a Black Panther for a Black Labrador dog, thats why I had to take a long time to come to the conclusion. To sift the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

Yeah, with all these sorts of things you are likely to get a mix of different reasons.  Some will be bears mistaken for b8gfoot, some hoaxes, some will be tricks played by their own minds and imaginations.  Typically you are likely to get a normal distribution of equivalent of the normal distribution of people types in society.  But statistically is it possible to have 10,000+ accounts with all of them being erroneous?  I have done a fair amount of research into this now and its certainly an interesting topic.  As for the dpi its difficult.  If it wasn't for the pamphlet would anyone have ever considered a Yeti as a possible explanation? 

All I know is that there seems to evidence that fits, but the evidence could also be explained by other strange events/phenomenon.   The events around the tent seem odd and don't completely tie up with a possible Yeti attack.  The cuts from the inside are made through seams which have taken some effort and sawing with a knife which contradicts making holes for a quick escape.  It does suggext that they were acting strangely.  Also no large footprints. 

Infrasound and weapon test are also possibilities.  Maybe time will tell.

Regards

Star man

August 26, 2020, 07:58:41 PM
Reply #526
Offline

Georgi




Breaking one rib is not so difficult.  Breaking 10 in one go and causing a flail chest requires much more force.as described.  Its an order of magnitude difference.
How exactly are we so sure that they were broken all in one go? And how much more difficult? If one of the attackers jumped on Lyuda from a height of say 4 feet that would be a significant impact and would cause a lot of damage yet you state that is not enough force to cause those injuries but a hit by an animal that is not proven to exist, whose capabilities are a mystery even if it were to be proven to exist has enough strength to do what a 180 pound man jumping from 4 feet height doesn’t.

Quote
I do not doubt that Yuri D was selfless and wanted to help his friends, but what could he achieve once he had climbed the tree given the state of his hands?  Its unlikely he could have done much to help even if he wanted to. 
Line of sight to the tent, if someone forced them out of the tent, him doing the only thing he was capable of doing at the time to increase the chances of his friends making it out alive would not be out of the question. If everyone else had a job to do, and he knew he was going to die, using the last few minutes of his life to get eyes on the tent or at least try to get eyes on the tent would be worthwhile, Afterall what else can he do if everyone else is working on another survival task?

Quote
There is no definitive evidence of the existence of big foot.  This is correct.  But an interesting question is why are there so many eye witness accounts and stories, tge foot print evidence is extensive.  Why?
Why do so many people believe that the earth is flat? Why do so many people believe that there are secret alien lizard rulers? Why do so many people believe that the Holocaust never happened? Why do so many people swear on a stack of bibles that they saw Elvis at some point after his death?

Quote
Think about this what factual evidence is there that they were attacked by humans?  Fist fights could have been amongst themselves due to stress of the situation.  What evidence is there of outsiders being involved? 
There has to be a reason why they traveled 500m off course and covered only a few km that day. There has to be a reason why they made camp in such an inconvenient and undesirable location. Their egress from their camp is riddled with contradictions, the only scenario for me that completely explains them is human involvement, armed human involvement. They left the tent in a state of panic but calmly walked down the slope. They left the tent without adequate clothes or foot ware and without tools and weapons. There is no indication that any or all of them were cowards or easily frightened so for them to be in complete state of panic inside the tent to cut it, leave the blankets they were holding behind, not grab a jacket or the backpacks they were sitting on and at the same time on the decent walk down in the same direction, calmly without a sense of panic or urgency for 1.6km seems to point only to external human attack. The tent inside was described as orderly except for the pile of boots by the door, the tent was not in a state you would expect it to be if 7 people were panicked for their lives and cutting their shelter to run away, the only anomalies that were immediately apparent were the 7 blankets that were crumpled up and the boots piled by the door.

The Tent indicates that there was no panic, they left in an orderly manner via the tent entrance where likely the first one out(Dyatlov) had his jacket on, put on his boots and went out to see what the problem was with Zolotaryov and Tibo. Once outside he was confronted and the rest of the hikers left the tent after putting on their boots. Once they were outside they were ordered to hand over their blankets, take off their boots and Dyatlov was forced to take off his jacket, the boots and blankets were tossed inside and the boots were dumped in a pile by the door. The hikers were ordered to march down the slope, at what point the fight happened is less relevant, what is relevant is that they walked down the slope in a calm and purposeful manner because they knew that the attackers weren’t the immediate threat after they were forced out of their campsite, the elements were the immediate threat, so they didn’t run, rush or separate simply because they expected their best chance for survival was together by the treeline.
The contradictions in their actions between say 10 minutes before the event that instigated their egress and their separation at the treeline provide evidence that they were scared but not in a state of panic and they were not fleeing their tent because of a threat there, they were leaving the tent because they were forced by someone. They knew that running would not save them and if the attackers wanted the dead they would kill them so they were careful on their decent to avoid unnecessary injuries that would make their almost hopeless situation into truly hopeless situation.

August 26, 2020, 08:16:29 PM
Reply #527
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Georgi





In terms of why then, there and them. I don't think there would be any particular reason.  Such creatures are suppose to be very elusive and encounters are few and far between, and more likely random.  If there was such a creature there then it was probably more out of curiosity. 
An animal doesn’t survive such a long time without being discovered and carted off to the nearest town by being curious. There was nothing on the slope but the tent, so if the Yeti is real, it would be avoiding human interactions not going to the one place that was likely relatively loud and bright on that hill.

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Again if such a creature was there it was probably curious and may have followed them down the slope at a distance.  However, if the hikers showed  aggression towards it then maybe it would reciprocate that aggression.  That's a possibility and would explain tge delay.  Also the fire at the cedar may have deterred it, but in tge ravine there was no fire.
so the answer to everything was that it was curious? If Yeti’s exist and were that curious then why haven’t they been caught yet? If they exist they would have to be cautious and careful on an instinctive level not go to the one place where the largest concentration of people were.

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The search party didn't encounter it because the encounters are rare, and maybe tge search party sparked greater caution in them.
The search party also covered a lot of area, at no point did they encounter a Yeti or signs of a yeti or its home. Over the last 60 years, 10,000 of thousands of people have gone through the region and none have verifiable proof that they encountered a yeti and no one died or was injured by a yeti. There is absolutely no evidence of a yeti other than a satirical article about the yeti and unexplained injuries.

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Why did the campers cover little ground on the last day and camp on the slope.  Who knows, the weather was bad, they were tired, visibility low and the path dangerous.  Or maybe they had seen something and wanted to stay away from the tree line.  That night they reported it in the satirical pamphlet.
So they reported it in the satirical pamphlet but none of them thought to write down what they saw in their journals? If I saw an animal like that I would be writing in my journal what I saw and what happened before I right it in a satirical article.

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This is all hypothetical.  There is evidence that fits the scario, but no definit8ve evidence of a Yeti (found so far).
There is no evidence that fits the yeti because you would have to assume they exist and them basically create their behaviour, reactions, instincts, strength etc… with zero evidence to support that. The entire scenario is built on a satirical article, some hard to explain injuries and assumptions based on non existing evidence of the Yeti’s abilities or its very existence.

August 26, 2020, 08:17:42 PM
Reply #528
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Georgi


The hikers may not have covered much ground due to building the den earlier in the day.
Why build a den if they had a tent? Unless they knew this was going to happen building a den is very unlikely.

August 26, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
Reply #529
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Georgi



Still doesnt prove that there were punches to the faces. And just because we cant judge a Yetis physical attributes doesnt mean we can dismiss a Yeti attack of some kind.
There is no conclusive proof the yeti exists, there is no evidence to base their thoughts, behaviours, instincts or strength on. On top of that the evidence does not truly support the yeti theory even if we discount the fact that we cant explain anything about the animal in question and cant even prove it exists.

August 26, 2020, 08:25:14 PM
Reply #530
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Georgi


If a Yeti matching the descriptions of the many eye witness accounts was there, then it could have caused the injuries.  A large gorilla could do it.

Regards

Star man
In terms of eye witness accounts, are we talking about 10,000 eye witnesses in the last 2,000 years spread all over the worlds? The last 200 years? The last 50 years? The last 10 years? the last 6 months?

What are the chances that a yeti if it even exists would be the same worldwide? If they exist there cant be that many of them or their cam and concealment is extraordinary because if it wasn't there would be someone with a rifle that would bring a body back to civilization.

August 26, 2020, 08:26:08 PM
Reply #531
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Georgi




Yes I wondered this too.  What if  one of them really had seen something that scared them in the forest and their plan to keep them safe was to build the den/hideaway and to pitch the tent away from the trees thinking it would be safer there and enable them to see anything approaching them.  Maybe the cedar tree was the agreed meeting point?
They would be hard pressed to find it in the dark while in a state of panic.

August 26, 2020, 08:30:22 PM
Reply #532
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Georgi



Here is an interesting question:  How does one explain the 10,000+ eye witness accounts of Bigfoot, Yeti etc?  Mass hysteria?  Mistaken identity? Hoax? Trick of the light?  10,000+ examples of this?  Also anatomists and anthropologists risking their reputations in support of the foot print evidence, explaing the anatomy of the feet, including crippled examples of foot casts. 
Ok so none of the 10,000 witnesses had a decent camera, or a rifle or a pistol to get some real evidence?



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As one of those anthropologists said - either there is a large unknown primate in existence or it is the biggest most elaborate  hoax ever orchestrated.
So the yeti is the world hide and seek champion?


August 26, 2020, 11:42:06 PM
Reply #533
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


Breaking one rib is not so difficult.  Breaking 10 in one go and causing a flail chest requires much more force.as described.  Its an order of magnitude difference.
How exactly are we so sure that they were broken all in one go? And how much more difficult? If one of the attackers jumped on Lyuda from a height of say 4 feet that would be a significant impact and would cause a lot of damage yet you state that is not enough force to cause those injuries but a hit by an animal that is not proven to exist, whose capabilities are a mystery even if it were to be proven to exist has enough strength to do what a 180 pound man jumping from 4 feet height doesn’t.

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I do not doubt that Yuri D was selfless and wanted to help his friends, but what could he achieve once he had climbed the tree given the state of his hands?  Its unlikely he could have done much to help even if he wanted to. 
Line of sight to the tent, if someone forced them out of the tent, him doing the only thing he was capable of doing at the time to increase the chances of his friends making it out alive would not be out of the question. If everyone else had a job to do, and he knew he was going to die, using the last few minutes of his life to get eyes on the tent or at least try to get eyes on the tent would be worthwhile, Afterall what else can he do if everyone else is working on another survival task?

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There is no definitive evidence of the existence of big foot.  This is correct.  But an interesting question is why are there so many eye witness accounts and stories, tge foot print evidence is extensive.  Why?
Why do so many people believe that the earth is flat? Why do so many people believe that there are secret alien lizard rulers? Why do so many people believe that the Holocaust never happened? Why do so many people swear on a stack of bibles that they saw Elvis at some point after his death?

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Think about this what factual evidence is there that they were attacked by humans?  Fist fights could have been amongst themselves due to stress of the situation.  What evidence is there of outsiders being involved? 
There has to be a reason why they traveled 500m off course and covered only a few km that day. There has to be a reason why they made camp in such an inconvenient and undesirable location. Their egress from their camp is riddled with contradictions, the only scenario for me that completely explains them is human involvement, armed human involvement. They left the tent in a state of panic but calmly walked down the slope. They left the tent without adequate clothes or foot ware and without tools and weapons. There is no indication that any or all of them were cowards or easily frightened so for them to be in complete state of panic inside the tent to cut it, leave the blankets they were holding behind, not grab a jacket or the backpacks they were sitting on and at the same time on the decent walk down in the same direction, calmly without a sense of panic or urgency for 1.6km seems to point only to external human attack. The tent inside was described as orderly except for the pile of boots by the door, the tent was not in a state you would expect it to be if 7 people were panicked for their lives and cutting their shelter to run away, the only anomalies that were immediately apparent were the 7 blankets that were crumpled up and the boots piled by the door.

The Tent indicates that there was no panic, they left in an orderly manner via the tent entrance where likely the first one out(Dyatlov) had his jacket on, put on his boots and went out to see what the problem was with Zolotaryov and Tibo. Once outside he was confronted and the rest of the hikers left the tent after putting on their boots. Once they were outside they were ordered to hand over their blankets, take off their boots and Dyatlov was forced to take off his jacket, the boots and blankets were tossed inside and the boots were dumped in a pile by the door. The hikers were ordered to march down the slope, at what point the fight happened is less relevant, what is relevant is that they walked down the slope in a calm and purposeful manner because they knew that the attackers weren’t the immediate threat after they were forced out of their campsite, the elements were the immediate threat, so they didn’t run, rush or separate simply because they expected their best chance for survival was together by the treeline.
The contradictions in their actions between say 10 minutes before the event that instigated their egress and their separation at the treeline provide evidence that they were scared but not in a state of panic and they were not fleeing their tent because of a threat there, they were leaving the tent because they were forced by someone. They knew that running would not save them and if the attackers wanted the dead they would kill them so they were careful on their decent to avoid unnecessary injuries that would make their almost hopeless situation into truly hopeless situation.

Georgi, the injury is clearly from one and probably at most two blows.  I have studied broken ribs fracturex from multiple blows and it looks completely different.  Random breaks at different points on different ribs.  The force is just physics.  If a lRge gorilla could generate that kind of force ( there hzve been studies on the force of gorilla blows)  then a creature twice as big will not have a problem.

For Yuri if we are talking selflessness then some of the others could have lent yuri D their gloves, or tried to use their body heat to keep him and Yuri K while they built the fire.  Climbing tge tree with useless hands doesnt make sense.  Climbing for safety does, and would explain why the others would be unable to keep him warm - they were clinging to the tree too.

Yes there are lots of nutters in the world, but how many of the examples you quote are by credible people?


I can see why people make the generalised assumption that they were forced from the tent by others, but what specific evidence is there?  Try to list it.   When you look at the details it is actually very difficult to explain the events via external attackers.

Regards

Star man

August 26, 2020, 11:45:37 PM
Reply #534
Offline

sparrow


Hi Marieuk.

I'm sorry.  I didn't mean a den; I meant a lebaz.

August 26, 2020, 11:46:37 PM
Reply #535
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
If a Yeti matching the descriptions of the many eye witness accounts was there, then it could have caused the injuries.  A large gorilla could do it.

Regards

Star man
In terms of eye witness accounts, are we talking about 10,000 eye witnesses in the last 2,000 years spread all over the worlds? The last 200 years? The last 50 years? The last 10 years? the last 6 months?

What are the chances that a yeti if it even exists would be the same worldwide? If they exist there cant be that many of them or their cam and concealment is extraordinary because if it wasn't there would be someone with a rifle that would bring a body back to civilization.

I think it is about 50 years.  Its difficult to see an animal if it doesn't want to be seen, especially ine that is intelligent and mostly nocturnal.  Mosr encounters seem to be accidents.  Both parties caught by suprise.

Regards

Star man

August 26, 2020, 11:49:48 PM
Reply #536
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Here is an interesting question:  How does one explain the 10,000+ eye witness accounts of Bigfoot, Yeti etc?  Mass hysteria?  Mistaken identity? Hoax? Trick of the light?  10,000+ examples of this?  Also anatomists and anthropologists risking their reputations in support of the foot print evidence, explaing the anatomy of the feet, including crippled examples of foot casts. 
Ok so none of the 10,000 witnesses had a decent camera, or a rifle or a pistol to get some real evidence?



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As one of those anthropologists said - either there is a large unknown primate in existence or it is the biggest most elaborate  hoax ever orchestrated.
So the yeti is the world hide and seek champion?

If there are low numbers of them, their intelligent, nocturnal and live in the tge wilderness then they could be very elusive.

Regards

Star man

August 27, 2020, 11:41:40 AM
Reply #537
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Still doesnt prove that there were punches to the faces. And just because we cant judge a Yetis physical attributes doesnt mean we can dismiss a Yeti attack of some kind.
There is no conclusive proof the yeti exists, there is no evidence to base their thoughts, behaviours, instincts or strength on. On top of that the evidence does not truly support the yeti theory even if we discount the fact that we cant explain anything about the animal in question and cant even prove it exists.

There is no conclusive proof that the Higgs Boson is the Particle that the Physicists have been searching for for decades. There is no conclusive proof that Jesus existed. There is no conclusive proof that Yeti exist.  But all have one thing in common.  There is plenty of evidence, if you look for it. 
DB

August 27, 2020, 05:40:56 PM
Reply #538
Online

marieuk




Yes I wondered this too.  What if  one of them really had seen something that scared them in the forest and their plan to keep them safe was to build the den/hideaway and to pitch the tent away from the trees thinking it would be safer there and enable them to see anything approaching them.  Maybe the cedar tree was the agreed meeting point?
They would be hard pressed to find it in the dark while in a state of panic.

Good point.  is it possible there was some light? they managed to get a fire going, maybe they could have used a burning branch?  It's just an idea anyway, nothing to say that is what happened. 

August 27, 2020, 05:43:55 PM
Reply #539
Online

marieuk


Hi Marieuk.

I'm sorry.  I didn't mean a den; I meant a lebaz.

Hi Sparrow

Sorry I misunderstood you.  That's a very good point.  I wonder how long that would have taken them.