Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Simplest Explanation is Often the Best
Patrick:
There are some general observations I'd like to make:
1) In disasters like this, human fault is usually the cause.
A) I think a fight occurred outside the tent, probably between Dyatlov and the army veteran (older guy, stranger to the group), which turned extremely violent, using ice picks, etc. This could account for head trauma suffered by one member.
B) If you read what is known of the veteran, he experienced some intense stuff during WW2. A combInation of PTSD, and the indignation of following a kid who lost his way became expressed in a rage. They were all tired, lost, and anxious.
C) It's easy for me to imagine the 2 men running around the tent, perhaps with another member trying to intervene, shouting threats and cursing. In the darkness and ice, they fell onto the tent, which caused the members inside to cut their way out of the tent. Some made their way downhill where they had previously seen forest before nightfall. They made sure to take matches to make a fire to keep warm, thinking they would return either later that night, or in the morning. I think there were 2 groups; one led by Dyatlov which went first, then a 2nd group of 3 or 4 who stayed behind to calm the raging vet.
D) The first group arrived at the cedar and could not find dry wood on the ground, so they climbed trees to break off dry branches. Cedars, like junipers are potential life-savers in this regard. Eventually, they could not sustain the effort of obtaining fuel, and one-by-one they began to freeze.
E) Meanwhile, the 2nd group made their way toward the light of the fire. They had calmed the veteran, and meant to coax back the others. When they arrived, they were overcome with the disaster unfolding.
F) The survivors stripped the clothes of the dead. Half determined that they would take those who could not move to the ravine, where they failed to make a fire an ice cave, and an insulating mat from branches. They all froze to death. The other half tried to make it back to the tent to bring back life-saving means...they froze to death as well.
2) The injuries:
A) Chest and rib injuries were caused by chest compressions during CPR attempts.
B) Bloody teeth and lips were caused by mouth-to-mouth attempts at CPR.
C) Missing eyes, tongue, and lips were caused by scavanging birds or mammals, or perhaps water.
D) Burns were caused by simply trying to feel the warmth of the fire through freezing tissue. In desperation, they got too close, not being able to feel they were burning themselves.
E) There were injuries to extremities consistent with climbing trees.
3) Notes:
A) The role of the veteran cannot be overestimated; he was the one not on the same wavelength as the others.
B) Photos taken from the cameras suggest who befriended, and formed a clique with the veteran.
C) Moonrise did not occur until much later in the night...it was pitch dark. This is why the notion of them climbing trees to see their surroundings makes no sense.
D) You can source Russian videos on youtube, recreating the journey from the tent to the cedar under similar snow and temperature conditions (during daylight). Socks stayed dry, and even with marginal clothes, they made the walk relatively easily and comfortably. Without adequate fire, though, the Dyatlov group were doomed.
E) Much of my theory is informed by my extensive time trekking in the wilderness. I have been too hot, too cold, too wet, out of food and water, and very lucky. Things can turn badly very quickly.
F) I realize I haven"t commented on every perceived anomaly, but nothing really stood out as inexplicable.
G) The exact causes and motivations will never be known.
Nigel Evans:
Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler - Albert EinsteinE.g. most observers agree that the injuries to Lyudmila and Semyon required superhuman force.
Patrick:
Nigel Evans: Which "most observers"?
Nigel Evans:
Observers like the pathologist who performed the autopsies perhaps?
I'm sure you've read the case files before posting your "Simple Explanation"?
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-381-383?rbid=17743
"These injuries, especially appearing in such a way without any damage to the soft tissue of the chest, are very similar to the type of trauma that results from the shock wave of a bomb."
Jean Daniel Reuss:
--- Quote from: Patrick on February 09, 2020, 08:49:05 PM ---There are some general observations I'd like to make:
1) In disasters like this, human fault is usually the cause.
A) I think a fight occurred outside the tent, probably between Dyatlov and the army veteran (older guy, stranger to the group), which turned extremely violent, using ice picks, etc. This could account for head trauma suffered by one member.
B) If you read what is known of the veteran, he experienced some intense stuff during WW2. A combInation of PTSD, and the indignation of following a kid who lost his way became expressed in a rage. They were all tired, lost, and anxious.
C) It's easy for me to imagine the 2 men running around the tent, perhaps with another member trying to intervene, shouting threats and cursing. In the darkness and ice, they fell onto the tent, which caused the members inside to cut their way out of the tent. Some made their way downhill where they had previously seen forest before nightfall. They made sure to take matches to make a fire to keep warm, thinking they would return either later that night, or in the morning. I think there were 2 groups; one led by Dyatlov which went first, then a 2nd group of 3 or 4 who stayed behind to calm the raging vet.
D) The first group arrived at the cedar and could not find dry wood on the ground, so they climbed trees to break off dry branches. Cedars, like junipers are potential life-savers in this regard. Eventually, they could not sustain the effort of obtaining fuel, and one-by-one they began to freeze.
E) Meanwhile, the 2nd group made their way toward the light of the fire. They had calmed the veteran, and meant to coax back the others. When they arrived, they were overcome with the disaster unfolding.
F) The survivors stripped the clothes of the dead. Half determined that they would take those who could not move to the ravine, where they failed to make a fire an ice cave, and an insulating mat from branches. They all froze to death. The other half tried to make it back to the tent to bring back life-saving means...they froze to death as well.
2) The injuries:
A) Chest and rib injuries were caused by chest compressions during CPR attempts.
B) Bloody teeth and lips were caused by mouth-to-mouth attempts at CPR.
C) Missing eyes, tongue, and lips were caused by scavanging birds or mammals, or perhaps water.
D) Burns were caused by simply trying to feel the warmth of the fire through freezing tissue. In desperation, they got too close, not being able to feel they were burning themselves.
E) There were injuries to extremities consistent with climbing trees.
3) Notes:
A) The role of the veteran cannot be overestimated; he was the one not on the same wavelength as the others.
B) Photos taken from the cameras suggest who befriended, and formed a clique with the veteran.
C) Moonrise did not occur until much later in the night...it was pitch dark. This is why the notion of them climbing trees to see their surroundings makes no sense.
D) You can source Russian videos on youtube, recreating the journey from the tent to the cedar under similar snow and temperature conditions (during daylight). Socks stayed dry, and even with marginal clothes, they made the walk relatively easily and comfortably. Without adequate fire, though, the Dyatlov group were doomed.
E) Much of my theory is informed by my extensive time trekking in the wilderness. I have been too hot, too cold, too wet, out of food and water, and very lucky. Things can turn badly very quickly.
F) I realize I haven"t commented on every perceived anomaly, but nothing really stood out as inexplicable.
G) The exact causes and motivations will never be known.
--- End quote ---
§.1 I am not sure I understand.
Is it true that the one you call ] the veteran is Semyon Aleksandrovich Zolotaryov (Sasha) ??
3) "Notes: B) Photos taken from the cameras suggest who befriended, and formed a clique with the veteran."
https://dyatlovpass.com/camera-krivonischenko Film ?1: frame ?5 and frame ?7
Is it true that the one you call the kid (or who befriended) is Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle (Tibo) ??
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
§.2 Then I agree with you on the following statements:
1 - D) E) F)
2 - A) B) C) D) E) F)
3 - B) C) D) E) F)°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
§.3 But I disagree mainly on 1 - B)Indeed the 9 hikers were in perfect physical and mental health, well trained and accustomed to the conditions of Siberian winters.
Their equipment may have been a little weak, but it was usual for the year 1959. .....A combination of PTSD, and the indignation of following a kid...---> (supposed to be Thibeaux-Brignolle)PSDT = post-traumatic stress disorder
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/ptsd-in-military-veterans.htm
but there are no indications that Zolotaryov suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder ! .....They were all tired, lost, and anxious....
On the contrary I think that :tired ---> They were only a bit tired and they mostly wanted to rest by lying in the night.
They were a little cold (indeed no fire that night) and they especially wanted to stay in the tent away from the wind and the cold. lost ---> Even if Dyatlov had strayed a kilometer from the planned route they were not lost because there were good landmarks: the edge of the forest, the surrounding peaks....
Although visibility was reduced on February 1, it was the gales that lifted the snow. The sky was clear, there was no fog.
anxious ---> Maybe a little troubled (?) But everything went well until the evening of February 1st and they were sheltered in Dyatlov's sturdy tent.°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
§.4 I propose a reconstruction that would transform and enrich your opinion.I do not know if my theory is right, but it has the merit and the interest to be consistent with all that is exhibited on the Dyatlovpass.com website.Obviously I am being influenced by pathologist Eduard Tumanov. I have to work to strengthen the argumentation to dismantle other causes of injuries such as:
• the shock wave of a bomb
• an impact of an automobile moving at high speed
• military rifle butt shots
• compelling unknown overhelming forces
• ...and so on...If you have enough time and courage for a long reading, my explanation can be found under the commentary of Eduard Tumanov:
Reply #15
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0
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