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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: The footprints, the footprints ...  (Read 10669 times)

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September 17, 2022, 11:23:36 AM
Reply #30
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Ziljoe


Sorry Ziljoe, I deleted reply #26, not fast enough. My idea was wrong as you noticed, you were right about the shadow. Really sorry.

To be honest, your idea has some merit....
 

September 17, 2022, 11:37:36 AM
Reply #31
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Ziljoe


Charles,

I can't  ascertain the length of the ice axe from the photos. Usually the ice axe head would be mounted at the base of the back pack through a loop then filpped up 180 degree's with a simple strap. For ease of access etc. Given the length of the exposed shaft in the photos where we can see it , if it was a short ice ax it would flop about ? If that makes sense.
 

September 17, 2022, 11:49:52 AM
Reply #32

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:41:10 PM by Charles »
 

September 17, 2022, 12:22:23 PM
Reply #33

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:41:20 PM by Charles »
 

September 17, 2022, 12:45:51 PM
Reply #34
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Ziljoe


 

September 17, 2022, 02:41:28 PM
Reply #35
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Ziljoe




Interestingly , Sharavin  says a number of things regarding the tent and the footprints .

MIHAIL SHARAVIN ANSWERS QUESTIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE DYATLOV PASS GROUP OF VKONTAKTE


M.Sharavin: We weren't so vulgar as to chop and eat the loin in the tent we found. The knife is not ours, we did not cut the loin. Slobtsov and I found the loin cut into slices and the piece remaining after cutting, as well as the skins from the already eaten pieces when we penetrated into the tent through the "top" on February 26 ,inmediately after its discovery. Of course, there could be no talk of eating and drinking alcohol in the tent. A flask with alcohol, which we found in a bucket, we took with us to the base camp and drank at a common table, remembering the guys.

( Interesting that Sharavin uses the word "penetrated "and from the top regarding his search of the tent on the 26th.  Sharavin states that they didn't enter through the entrance of the tent , nor does he state they entered the tent from the underside, neither does he mention the finding the tent with cuts? But yet they do a reasonable search of the contents of the tent, enough to find a camera, vodka, search under blankets and look into rucksacks etc. Food for thought....)

Question: Why didn't you look into the tent through the entrance?

M.Sharavin: Why didn't we enter the tent through the "entrance"? Imagine a pole standing up, and immediately after the ridge part descending almost vertically down. Only the front pole stood vertically. The entire length of the tent was covered with 200 mm thick firn snow. Until the snow is removed from the roof, it will still not be possible to get into the tent. There was nothing to be seen through the entrance. In addition, I wanted to find out if there are bodies in the tent. Strange, but we were not warned about how we should behave in such a situation. But when the canvas of the tent was cleared, it became evident that there was no one inside."



Question:Tell us, is this how you found the tent? Or has something in the picture changed already? If so, what exactly is different form how you found it?


It was you and Boris Slobtsov who dug up the tent. Or was it someone else that dug up the tent after you?

Particularly interested in where, in what place was the ice ax. If possible, mark its position on the photo. Or describe in detail so that we can understand from the photo where he was. Where did you yanked it out from?

M.Sharavin: This photo is taken on February 27 by a someone from Karelin's group, who were led to the tent by Yuri Koptelov. He is in the photo. The snow was dug up by us the day before. The skis were set after us, initially they were in front of the tent, to the left of Koptelov. And a little to the right of Koptelov, we initially found an ice ax, in front of the entrance to the tent, which we used when chopping up the snow that was on top the tent. I don't find any other differences.

( The snow was moved on the 26)

Question: Mihail Petrovich, when you approached the tent, did you personally see any items scattered around the tent? Slobtsov talked about some kind of slippers, ski caps...

M.Sharavin: I did not notice any slippers when I approached the tent. Slobtsov maybe recollecting belongings that he saw the very next day. After all, he wrote the testimony one month later.

Question: regarding the blankets in the tent. Were they in a pile, or spread out? Can you maybe remember the color of some blanket?

M.Sharavin: The blankets in the tent were mostly spread out. Most of them were brown.

( It was reported that the blankets were found in a frozen ball also?)

Question: When you saw the blankets spread out in the tent, did you look under them?

M.Sharavin: Yes, we looked under the blankets in one place to make sure that there were empty backpacks on the bottom of the tent.

Question: Did you return everything that you took from the tent on February 26, taking into account that you drunk the flask before the arrival of the investigator?

M.Sharavin: The empty flask was returned to the tent on the 27th, and the rest - a diary and money, possibly returned to the investigator.

(Sharavin found a diary, flask and money  on the 26th)

Question: How dense was the snow on the tent that you had to chop it up with an ice ax? Do you agree that the two skis were not set up as the center ridgepoles of the tent?

M.Sharavin: The snow on top of the tent was really so hard that it had to be chopped off with an ice axe. And the skis were in front of the tent and were not used as ridgepoles.

Question: About the rope at the entrance - did it tie the skate of the entrance with skis or an ice axe, or tied it to another pole?

M.Sharavin: I can't say anything about a rope. I don't remember such.


Question: Boris Slobtsov said in an interview that you took off your skis and walked in boots down the slope, almost following the very tracks on the slope. Do you think that the trace from the heel, which was later discovered by witnesses, could have been left by you, i.e. unintentionally left by your boots?

M.Sharavin: When we approached the tent, we really walked without skis, but our boots did not leave marks on the firn snow. In addition, footprints in boots were observed in the general track of all footprints left by the Dyatlov group ... they protruded above the surface of firn snow



M Sharavin:"We found the ice ax on the 26th and used it to free the tent from the snow. We did not move the skis on the 26th. But in a photo taken the next day and attributed to Brusnitsyn, these skis are next to the front and back stands of the tent. We did not move the skis there and it is not clear to us who did it. Moreover, Brusnitsyn on the 27th could not have taken take this picture, since he was at the base camp on the other side of the pass."

(However Slobtsov Boris Efimovich statement says the following)

Sheet 298

PROTOCOL
witness testimony

Near the entrance of the tent on the snow
an ice ax was stuck
, on the canvas of the tent, in the snow lay a pocket flashlight, Chinese make, which, as it was subsequently established, belonged to Dyatlov. It was strange that while there was a layer of snow let say 5-10 cm thick under the flashlight, there was no snow on top of it, and it was snowed slightly on either side. I took the flashlight first and found that it was not turned on. When I turned on it lit. I did not notice that day, but then I heard from other people involved in the search that there was a trace of urine in the snow near the tent.
In the immediate vicinity of the tent there were no footprints. Approximately 15-20 m from the tent in the direction where the bodies were subsequently discovered, footprints of the people's feet coming from the tent were visible on the snow, and it was evident that the tracks were left by the feet of a person without shoes in felt boots (valenki). The tracks protruded above the surrounding surface of the snow, for near the tracks the snow was blown out by the wind.
From the tent in the direction of the wind, i.e. in the direction where there were traces of people's feet, at a distance of about 0.5-1 m, we found several slippers from different pairs, and ski caps and other small objects were scattered. I do not remember and did not pay attention to how many people were the footprints from, but it should be noted that the tracks were initially together, next to each other, and the distant tracks diverged, but now I don't remember how they parted.
On February 26, 1959, we removed the snow from over the tent and made sure that there were no people inside, and we didn't touch the items that were in the tent. I was with student Sharavin. The items were taken out of the tent on February 27 and 28, 1959, when student Brusnitsyn and other searchers were present.



When on 26.2.59 I looked in the tent I saw the following: the tent itself was torn, there was food in a bucket near the entrance, there was a liquid in a flask - alcohol or vodka, there were food supplies in bags at the feet, the blankets were unfolded, under the blankets spread out were quilted jackets, storm jackets, and under them backpacks were laid on the floor. At the entrance hung Slobodin's jacket, in whose breast pocket were found about 800 rubles. In the tent, apparently, a sheet was hung, which was torn and part of it protruded outward.

_________________________________________

It almost seems that someone else went to the tent between the 26th and 27th . I know I need to read more of the statements but I think Slobtsov Boris was the first to mention the tent was torn. If the tent was found in the state we are familiar with in the examination office , why would Sharavin ,who penetrated the tent from the top ,not say, that once they had cleared the snow they  found the tent cut?, I would also add that it looks more than just "torn" , more like shredded. I do wonder if the group that discovered the tent maybe thought to help themselves to the vodka and money. Sharavin states it was "Strange, but we were not warned about how we should behave in such a situation". I believe he means they were given no instruction on what to do if they found anything.

Slobtsov Boris says they didn't touch the items in the tent but Sharavin says they took the vodka( and drunk it) along with money , a camera and mentions taking a diary and taking them to the base camp, then returning the flask on the 27th. Maybe they got told off for taking stuff.

Sharavin also notes that they walked around the tent but left no prints as the snow was so hard. All very mind boggling as it shows the vast variety of snow conditions and annoying contradictions with all the statements.
Many of these statements may be errors in memory and as always confuse the case even more.....



 
 

September 17, 2022, 03:26:18 PM
Reply #36

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:41:37 PM by Charles »
 

September 18, 2022, 05:29:51 PM
Reply #37
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GlennM


Gentlemen, given the discussion regarding the ice axe and knowing their state of dress, are you supposing the hikers were ordered out of their tent and the ice axe was grabbed as a weapon? I would think that if the group were harassed,  all cutting tools would be stripped from them prior to the downslope march. Again, for me, these details point to a  reasonable reaction to a natural event under dire weather conditions forcing emergency action by the group, which ultimately did not work.
 
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September 19, 2022, 01:22:23 AM
Reply #38
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Ziljoe


Hi GlennM

I think the ice axe was stored where it was found and reported to be. Outside the tent. Possibly for toilet duties , clearing the tent etc. No one's going to steal it.

I would have also thought that they would all have been forced to discard coats at hats and felt boots too. Especially Zolotaryov.



 

September 19, 2022, 05:45:04 PM
Reply #39
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GlennM


I get the sense that Teddy is regarding all of our speculation with a bit of amusement from the high ground. She has travelled, invested in forensic analysis and makes lucid and interesting posts. I think her next communication will have something definitive.
 

September 19, 2022, 06:03:25 PM
Reply #40
Online

Ziljoe


GlennM, sounds good to me. I think the forum is getting a bit to aggressive for some and will put others off posting.

We could do with a new fact from myth page that new members could quickly read ? 

We are just regurgitating much of what has been discussed for years now. Teddy has a new angle and I'm watching the posts on u tube with intrigue.




 
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October 02, 2022, 02:59:44 PM
Reply #41
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Ziljoe


According to the photos, Zolotaryov carried an ice axe in his bacpack:



But it was not of the long type. Here, we can compare the length of his ice axe with the length of the ski poles:



And maybe there was a second ice axe, here in the first backpack on the left:



and here on the left on the stairs:



But if it was an ice axe, it's not as obvious as for Zolotaryov's backpack.

If the ice axe was of the shorter type, it had to be kept inside the tent, not to be covered with snow during the night, and risking to be  forgotten or lost.

Hi Charles Here's  the photo in the bus. It looks like the longer type to me.
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/B-01.jpg
 

October 02, 2022, 03:11:52 PM
Reply #42

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:41:58 PM by Charles »
 

November 13, 2022, 02:25:33 PM
Reply #43
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The scene at the tent on Kholat is just nonsense.  That is, nothing makes sense.  The foot prints were not subjected to forensic study during the investigation.  It's unlikely that they were made by the Dyatlov group.  It's unlikely they ever pitched the tent there.

Regards

Star man
 
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November 13, 2022, 03:53:23 PM
Reply #44
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GlennM


Hello all, I believe there is evidence of a ski trail from the cache(labaz) heading toward the tent site at elevation  880. I understand the rescue party located those ski tracks and used them for a guide. The tracks did not lead directly to the tent apparantly obliterated by windswept conditions. It did get the rescuers to the outlier rock and from there the tent was discovered. At least that is what I understand to be true.

I admire Teddy for investing in a forensic analysis of the snow imprints, but you would expect these same boot prints to be all around the tent. They are not. What it does hint at is that the blown snow that likely precipitated the slab slip that collapsed the tent scoured the slope. Consider too that in such a fierce wind, a fire built at the cedar would not be of much use. It would be insufficiently warm and would use the scant fuel quickly.

If the Hikers fought their way uphill and elected to make a cold camp for the night at 880, then everything that happened thereafter is attributable to Nature. Human intervention need not be a causative factor. Bad things happen to good people.
 
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November 13, 2022, 10:50:24 PM
Reply #45
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Ehtnisba


And Zolotaryov with a useless ice axe and a feather pinned on his hat, ready for "the adventure"... after what he experienced during WWII... it makes me like him. I find this childish coquetry quite touching, knowing the hell he previously went through. And "Krokodil" magazine in his backpack also. And the way a bit stupid he talked to the schoolchildren... And how he was mocked by the loggers (they intuitively understood he was escaping reality and mocked him from the point of view of loggers who thought they knew "the real thing", but they were young and they didn't experience war, and they couldn't imagine the wounds and scars left on a soul)... I know there was some unclear part in his biography, but now, with the possibility of bringing a useless ice axe, the type used for alpine climbing, in the soft reliefs of the Urals, I see another face of the man... Maybe desiring to come back to the time of innocence, to a time before the ugliest aspects of human life.
lol2 Krokodil in his backpack , feather and alpine ax 😆😆😆😆😆 I love this sarcastic decimation of all " odd" ideas
Homo homini lupus est!
 
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November 16, 2022, 07:01:30 AM
Reply #46
Online

Ziljoe


And Zolotaryov with a useless ice axe and a feather pinned on his hat, ready for "the adventure"... after what he experienced during WWII... it makes me like him. I find this childish coquetry quite touching, knowing the hell he previously went through. And "Krokodil" magazine in his backpack also. And the way a bit stupid he talked to the schoolchildren... And how he was mocked by the loggers (they intuitively understood he was escaping reality and mocked him from the point of view of loggers who thought they knew "the real thing", but they were young and they didn't experience war, and they couldn't imagine the wounds and scars left on a soul)... I know there was some unclear part in his biography, but now, with the possibility of bringing a useless ice axe, the type used for alpine climbing, in the soft reliefs of the Urals, I see another face of the man... Maybe desiring to come back to the time of innocence, to a time before the ugliest aspects of human life.

Why was his ice axe useless ?
 

November 16, 2022, 09:21:29 AM
Reply #47

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:42:13 PM by Charles »
 

November 16, 2022, 12:26:35 PM
Reply #48
Online

Ziljoe


And Zolotaryov with a useless ice axe and a feather pinned on his hat, ready for "the adventure"... after what he experienced during WWII... it makes me like him. I find this childish coquetry quite touching, knowing the hell he previously went through. And "Krokodil" magazine in his backpack also. And the way a bit stupid he talked to the schoolchildren... And how he was mocked by the loggers (they intuitively understood he was escaping reality and mocked him from the point of view of loggers who thought they knew "the real thing", but they were young and they didn't experience war, and they couldn't imagine the wounds and scars left on a soul)... I know there was some unclear part in his biography, but now, with the possibility of bringing a useless ice axe, the type used for alpine climbing, in the soft reliefs of the Urals, I see another face of the man... Maybe desiring to come back to the time of innocence, to a time before the ugliest aspects of human life.

Why was his ice axe useless ?

The snow was also hard . I would think it sensible to take along an ice axe. It has multiple uses , especially when climbing any slopes,digging hard ground or breaking ice to find water. . The searchers also took ice axes to the area. Better to have the tools you might need than not. Far from useless....
 

November 16, 2022, 04:56:51 PM
Reply #49
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Игорь Б.


Ледоруб был нужен для залезания на скалы на вершинах гор для снятия чужих записок и оставления своих.

http://meridian.perm.ru/03_reports/manpupiner2009/img/0097.jpg
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 05:07:17 PM by Игорь Б. »
An example of the impact of chemical weapons of a skunk (wolverine) in a tent:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=117054
 

November 17, 2022, 07:09:33 AM
Reply #50

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:42:26 PM by Charles »
 

November 17, 2022, 09:49:49 PM
Reply #51
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GlennM


The post quoting MIHAIL SHARAVIN makes it clear to me that the tent was lived in prior to abandonment. If the tent were relocated from the forest to the slope, there are too many idiosyncrasies to convince me that it was staged. Nobody is that good! 

 

November 18, 2022, 03:53:24 PM
Reply #52
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The post quoting MIHAIL SHARAVIN makes it clear to me that the tent was lived in prior to abandonment. If the tent were relocated from the forest to the slope, there are too many idiosyncrasies to convince me that it was staged. Nobody is that good!

The staging of the tent is sloppy imo.  This is why the DPI is such a mystery.  The tent doesn't make sense.  It's far too orderly inside the tent.  If the occupants had been scrambling to escape by cutting and tearing the tent then they would likely have disturbed the contents of tent much more.

Regards

Star man
 
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November 18, 2022, 06:59:09 PM
Reply #53
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GlennM


Hello all,

The tent was discovered with the front flap closed. It was deep in snow.

If the hikers were rousted out by troublemakers, would anyone take the time to button up the tent flap? No. Why? The troublemakers did not expect them to return, so what did it matter if the tent was opened or closed?

If the hikers left of their own accord, would they button up the tent and at the same time leave their shoes inside? No. Why? Illogical.

If the hikers were trapped in a closed tent that suffered a collapse would they try to leave through a buttoned front flap? No, Why? Breathing, bleeding, broken bones and burns take priority over decorum.

Did the hikers cut their way out of the tent in response to external human threats? No. Why? Because, " if you want me, come in and get me!"

I am making a flap about the flap, but nine people trapped in close quarters under a crush of snow are going to cut their way free. What they did next is evidenced by where they went and where they succumbed to the elements.
 
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November 19, 2022, 11:31:47 AM
Reply #54

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:42:45 PM by Charles »
 

November 20, 2022, 05:21:14 PM
Reply #55
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GlennM


Green fairy= absinthe. The subnrosa implication is that the DPI investigator is hallucinating. Has an aspersion been cast? If so, this needs moderation.
 
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November 21, 2022, 12:59:19 AM
Reply #56
Online

Ziljoe


All very bohemian.......

Apparently absinthe rose to great popularity as an alcoholic drink in late 19th- and early 20th-century France, particularly among Parisian artists and writers.
 
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November 23, 2022, 09:33:49 AM
Reply #57

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:43:01 PM by Charles »
 
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November 23, 2022, 02:39:47 PM
Reply #58
Online

Ziljoe


Green fairy= absinthe. The subnrosa implication is that the DPI investigator is hallucinating. Has an aspersion been cast? If so, this needs moderation.

All very bohemian.......

Apparently absinthe rose to great popularity as an alcoholic drink in late 19th- and early 20th-century France, particularly among Parisian artists and writers.

I was writing to Ehtnisba, addressing her as "Dear green fairy", nothing extraordinary here: Ehtnisba is an anagram of Absinthe. No need to lose your nerves...





What does Ehtnisba mean Charles?
 

November 23, 2022, 03:02:26 PM
Reply #59

Charles

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:46:04 PM by Charles »