Miscellaneous > Non-DP Related Mysteries!
Chivruay tragedy 1973
sarapuk:
Interesting.
Tamara Muravyova and Sergey Kuznetsov, Mikhail's younger brother, were the only ones who made sure that they were allowed to be identified. The children in Kuibyshev were buried in closed coffins. As Tamara recalls, the skin of her friends was of a strange color: someone brown, someone almost black or yellow. Everyone had empty eye sockets, eyes burst. Sergei Gusev allegedly had medical experts discovered signs of oxygen shortage. Death occurred at about five in the morning (plus or minus half an hour) on January 27.
We need the AUTOPSY REPORTS.
CalzagheChick:
--- Quote from: WAB on June 13, 2018, 07:59:42 AM ---
--- Quote from: CalzagheChick on June 01, 2018, 03:49:28 PM ---Well the photos of these victims look less wholesome and so much more hippie-ish so I'm guessing nobody was really interested in a bunch of frozen hippies.
--- End quote ---
1.In the early seventies many young men looked as hippie. There was such fashion. Therefore there is nothing strange in their kind.
2.This case was discussed in narrow circles of experts, but any agiotage it did not cause. Probably because now the press is more interested in sensations and reception of additional money in this connection. Then there were more realistic and moral times.
--- Quote from: CalzagheChick on June 01, 2018, 03:49:28 PM ---That was totally just typed in gest. Teddy please don't think I was being disrespectful to your post or to the dead.
--- End quote ---
Many publications about this case are written after repeated retellings between various people. Therefore it is a lot of stratifications of a different lie and imaginations.
I have written that saw itself and is direct on a place of events. Compare that has been originally published in this forum, and define that more close to true.
--- Quote from: CalzagheChick on June 01, 2018, 03:49:28 PM ---It was more or less a nod to the political climate in the United States at the time of this event.
--- End quote ---
What do you mean in this phrase?
--- End quote ---
In America, Hippie culture is still not a very celebrated moment of "enlightenment." I think now it has a lot to do with the fact that the Vietnam Conflict is the source of a lot of pain in living memory. Our men came home from a war they did NOT believe in or want to fight only to have a bunch of Hippies spit on them and call them "baby killers." So to be a Hippie in the US is not at all considered to be of a culture that believes in a peaceful existence. We consider Hippies to be filthy, drug-addicted people that don't want to work for a living and in a sense there's resentment that working Americans have to support them.
BottledBrunette:
--- Quote from: CalzagheChick on June 01, 2018, 03:49:28 PM ---Well the photos of these victims look less wholesome and so much more hippie-ish so I'm guessing nobody was really interested in a bunch of frozen hippies.
That was totally just typed in gest. Teddy please don't think I was being disrespectful to your post or to the dead. It was more or less a nod to the political climate in the United States at the time of this event.
--- End quote ---
I don't think they look particularly hippy-ish. To me, hippies, had the shoulder length or longer hair, maybe beards and mustaches or not, but,definitely, with the LONG hair. These guys just look regular, short haired men, some more clean cut than others, but, they don't look like hippies to me. Forgive me for sounding stupid, but, I thought with the type of restrictive government the former USSR had, that they would even allow men to grow their hair long and have they hippie attitude. I'm not an expert on the former USSR, just what I learned from all my classes from high school and college, but, I just didn't think they allowed that kind of thing, hence, not understanding too much your comment about nobody being really interested in a bunch of frozen hippies. I'm not trying to sound snarky or anything, just curious and wondering. dunno1
sarapuk:
Hippies or no hippies, obviously something happened to the Dyatlov Group that was extraordinary and resulted in the area being off limits for several years etc etc.
WAB:
I will answer today shortly and only in one theme.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 01, 2018, 01:53:46 PM ---Interesting.
Tamara Muravyova and Sergey Kuznetsov, Mikhail's younger brother, were the only ones who made sure that they were allowed to be identified.
--- End quote ---
There is no it not is so. About Tamara Muraveva I cannot tell anything (I it some times saw on Grushin Festival, but personally it is not familiar), but Sergey Kuznetsov at that time was not in the city of Kuibyshev (now Samara). Because it was the cadet (student of military school) Yaroslavl military financial school. His father the colonel (in resignation) Alesey Mihajlovich Kuznetsov buried and identified Michael's body. I am well familiar with them with everything, inclusive Michael's both sisters - Tatyana and Galina. By the way, Michael was named after the father Alexey- (or was named the grandfather Michael younger).
They buried all at various times, therefore not unique who identified bodies. For example, I am well familiar with Tatyana and Olga Krivov, sisters Yury Krivov. Their parents too saw Yury's body before funeral. About the others I cannot tell that defined not Ilya Altshuller's brother - told that to me that his parents have not allowed to look to it at a body because father Ilya it saw and has decided that the brother is very young what to see such terrible kinds. All dead people after several days lie on air, have an ugly appearance if to understand it simple people. Especially if the death is the violent.
By definition in medicine: violent death is that which has occurred not for the natural reasons, that is if it not an old age, and not accurately established illness. In other words - all rest, including accident.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 01, 2018, 01:53:46 PM ---The children in Kuibyshev were buried in closed coffins.
--- End quote ---
Certainly, after more than one weeks from the moment as them have found and have brought to Kuibyshev, they were already a little decayed. Besides, at our country have rules that transportation by any transport unpacked in a zinc box is not allow under the sanitary code. From Kirovsk (where did autopsy) to Kuibyshev (where they lived) distance equally 2500 km or ~ 1500 miles.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 01, 2018, 01:53:46 PM ---As Tamara recalls, the skin of her friends was of a strange color: someone brown, someone almost black or yellow.
--- End quote ---
Brown (it is usual colour of a corpse which more 1 week was on air) it and is black + yellow and for the person unusual to corpses, it also an additive appraisal perceptions.
So in what there is a question?
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 01, 2018, 01:53:46 PM --- Everyone had empty eye sockets, eyes burst. Sergei Gusev allegedly had medical experts discovered signs of oxygen shortage.
--- End quote ---
Signs can be any, including false. Besides, when 5 persons: Michael Kuznetsov, Yury Krivov, Yury Ushkov, Sergey Gusev and Alexander Pirogov froze in their tent could powder with fresh snow slightly. In a coma stage of freezing snow could get to respiratory ways and give signs of oxygen shortage. In Michael Kuznetsova and Yury Krivov such signs have not found out.
So in what there is a question?
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 01, 2018, 01:53:46 PM ---Death occurred at about five in the morning (plus or minus half an hour) on January 27.
--- End quote ---
Interesting, whence they took such data? I know precisely (because I was there and then), what exact time have not been defined even when these 5 persons have been brought to Kirovsk and autopsy has been spent?
Though by calculation by which we did together with the chief of a life-saving service of Murmansk region - Anatoly Ostrovsky - most likely they were lost in the evening on January, 26th approximately in the range from 20.00 (08.00 PM) till 24.00 (00.00 AM) local time (UTC +3h) .
It is the strangest to me to read that people who there were not, and have no corresponding primary information, know about it better those who was engaged in it directly.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on September 01, 2018, 01:53:46 PM ---We need the AUTOPSY REPORTS.
--- End quote ---
If I knew that in 45 years after that, me about it you will ask, I necessarily took a copy. grin1
Now it is necessary to request archive Office of Public Prosecutor of the city Kirovsk of Murmansk region what to receive a copy. I am not assured that as it is necessary under the law, this case has not been annihilated after 25 years its termination. That is it should be in 1998. But I precisely do not know, can be it have kept, as Dyatlov group case.
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