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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Watches in the Dyatlov group  (Read 15129 times)

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May 10, 2020, 10:06:56 PM
Reply #30
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RidgeWatcher


1) At 2nd Settlement the group stayed in the only inhabitable structure. This was still not safe. A diary entry suggests that many injured themselves on rusty nails. Was there enough time to possibly affect the mental wellbeing of the Hikers?

2) It has been a while since I have read my Dyatlov books but Zina in her dairy discusses that Dyatlov is not himself and very angry. Hs anyone been able to find out why?

3) Yuri Yudin, in 2nd Settlement supposedly went to an open mine shaft during his rock surveying to bring some rock specimens back home. Could illegal miners have witnessed the Hikers and followed them?

4) With all due respect: Was Yuri Yuden gay? Both Zina and Lyuda were both down when his sciatica flared up and he was going back home. Dyatlov was a level headed young man but in photos he seems to really relish the closeness Yuri has with Zina, I don't see that same cheerfulness when Zina is in the photos with the other male Hikers. This would have been one way the KGB could have blackmailed Yuri into doing something he really didn't want to do. Again, this question is asked in respect to Yuri.

I apologize for having more questions than opinions but as I renew my reading I am sure this will change. Thank you my fellow posters.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 08:19:43 PM by RidgeWatcher »
 

May 11, 2020, 01:39:00 AM
Reply #31
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Monika


Hello,

I can't believe someone was patrolling at the tent at night and check the time.
Firstly, there is no mention about it in the diary. They wrote there all sorts of little things in the diary, and if it usually one of them to has a patrol every day, I think they would mention it there. Not to mention that it is pointless for someone to patrol. It was a very strenuous expedition and each member had to be fit – rested in the morning. Besides, it’s unimportant the exact time they had to get up, because they didn't get on the train. It makes no sense for someone to check the time and even with two watches.

I think Tibo took the watch from Krivonishenko after his dead. One reason occurred to me: watches are the only valuables tourists had with them in the woods after escaping from the tent. In case they manage to get into civilization somehow, they will need money e.g. on the way home. It was obvious to them that they would not get to the tent where the money was. And four watches together could already give a nice amount of money.
 

May 11, 2020, 06:35:41 AM
Reply #32
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Nigel Evans


It occurs to me that we're arguing over the wrong thing. Whether they normally kept a watch or did not isn't really relevant. What is relevant is whether they opted to keep a watch whilst in the den (one stay awake whilst others slept). If so then this is a clue to the mystery. We know that there is evidence that the fire was deliberately put out.

Perhaps as if they wanted to hide from a threat but remain alert to it.
 

May 11, 2020, 02:05:32 PM
Reply #33
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PJ


We know that there is evidence that the fire was deliberately put out.
Where is the evidence?
 

May 12, 2020, 01:05:28 AM
Reply #34
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Nigel Evans


We know that there is evidence that the fire was deliberately put out.
Where is the evidence?
It should be in the case files (somewhere). The rescue party observed that the logs indicated that the fire hadn't burnt itself out but had stopped (80 mm logs only burned halfway through). Plus there was spare kindling unused. There's little wind in the forest so the fire should have just carried on burning.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 01:33:39 AM by Nigel Evans »
 

May 12, 2020, 04:11:39 PM
Reply #35
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PJ


It should be in the case files (somewhere). The rescue party observed that the logs indicated that the fire hadn't burnt itself out but had stopped (80 mm logs only burned halfway through). Plus there was spare kindling unused. There's little wind in the forest so the fire should have just carried on burning.
80 mm logs often stop burning if there is no smaller kindling under it, specially that they could be a bit wet(wood in winter is often frozen with lots of water inside it) and the fact that there was spare kindling unused could mean that they stop taking care about fire - building Den, going up to tent.
The only proof that the fire was put down will be finding many charcoaled pieces of wood inside the fire, not yet turned into ash. But as I know, there is not information about it anywhere or even photo of the fire.

 

May 13, 2020, 12:20:14 AM
Reply #36
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Nigel Evans


They wisely chose cedar wood which i understand is dry and burns well. Presumably the fire fitted with the LHS of your post.
 

May 13, 2020, 04:19:03 PM
Reply #37
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PJ


Yes, the cedar burns very well, but I am not sure that the "80 mm logs only burned halfway through" was from cedar. A bit to big for braking it without axe, I guess they just found it somewhere around. From photos looks like it was a tree trunk.
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-320.jpg
 

May 14, 2020, 05:48:02 AM
Reply #38
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Nigel Evans


Cedars shed decent sized branches in high winds. Probably found it lying on the ground.
 

July 02, 2023, 01:47:56 AM
Reply #39
Online

Axelrod



Thibeaux-Brignolle was found wearing two wrist watches on his left hand, a Pobeda showing 9:38 or 8:38 and Zportivnye showing 9:15 or 8:15.

Case files I - 341 "...on his first hand are two watches brands Pobeda and Sportivnye the watches show - Pobeda 9:38, and the Sportivnye 9:15"
 9:38 is repeated once more in this document. Must be an error that the times in both watches are off with an hour.
Case files I - 352 Autopsy: "On the left forearm there are two watches: a Sportivnye watch showing the time 8:14:24, and a Pobeda brand watch showing the time 8:39."

this was error in translation to English - "the watches show - pobeda 38 minutes past 9 hours, and the sportivnye 15 minutes past 9 hours"

Tempalov uses in proticol a specific construcrion: 38 minutes of 9th hour, that denotes in Russian 8-38, not 9-38,  (like 23th year of 21th century doesn't denote year 2123). and 8-15 (really 8-14 + 24 sec.) Why Tempalov shifted 24 seconds to next minute I don't understand!
 

July 03, 2023, 04:27:10 AM
Reply #40
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KathleenDSmith1


Teddy and Everyone:

This is regarding the "timing" of each watch, knowing that both Yuri's bodies were suggested ..copy and paste " This suggests that whoever was last in contact with the bodies felt compassion, pity and respect towards the victims. They were not the murderers, but their friends in distress that tried to make their deathbeds somehow less horrible."  ..Determines if one of the victims (YURI DOROSHENKO  or YURI KRIVONISCHENKO) Should be a different time considering, how both bodies were found.." regarding Post Mortem.... Sending an image with description.



Thank You
Kathleen Dee Smith
 

July 03, 2023, 04:48:47 AM
Reply #41
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KathleenDSmith1


Teddy and Everyone:

Why ? The time of "Watches" is different than what has been explained in the case files:  all three watches, 8:20 (am or pm), 1:07 (am or pm), and 10:07 (am to pm) none matches the explanation given....5 watches and the 6th is "Kolevatov’s Molniya was in the items retrieved from the tent but not in the inventory" ...sending images...



 

July 03, 2023, 05:07:50 AM
Reply #42
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KathleenDSmith1


Teddy and Everyone:

Case files 341-343 "copy and paste".. "The first body of a man is dressed in a khaki storm jacket on his first hand are two watches brands "Pobeda" and "Sportivnye" the watches show - pobeda 38 minutes past 9 hours, and the sportivnye 15 minutes past 9 hours?

What does this mean ??? pobeda 38 minutes past 9 hours, and the sportivnye 15 minutes past 9 hours?

Thank You
Kathleen Dee Smith
 

July 03, 2023, 10:40:12 AM
Reply #43
Online

Axelrod


Teddy and Everyone:

Case files 341-343 "copy and paste".. "The first body of a man is dressed in a khaki storm jacket on his first hand are two watches brands "Pobeda" and "Sportivnye" the watches show - pobeda 38 minutes past 9 hours, and the sportivnye 15 minutes past 9 hours?

Word "khaki" existed in Russian before 1917, but denoted some diffrerent color in 1959. see picture.

Today it usually denotes camouflage.

About time, this is popular mistake and misunderstanding between Russians and  Ukrainians when asking time. And between Russian and another lanhuages, as I see now.

 

July 03, 2023, 01:20:18 PM
Reply #44
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eurocentric


It's a good idea to use Google image search to test assertions.

Khaki will find only the solid colour at Google images, or at least it does from where I'm sitting, and that is what I would assume someone meant by it. The military camouflage colours are typically known as army or 'camo'.

My DPI approach - logic, probability and reason.
 

July 03, 2023, 01:43:23 PM
Reply #45
Online

Axelrod


It's a good idea to use Google image search to test assertions.

Khaki will find only the solid colour at Google images, or at least it does from where I'm sitting, and that is what I would assume someone meant by it. The military camouflage colours are typically known as army or 'camo'.
I speak about хаки not khaki. I followed your recomendations
https://bogatyr.club/31678-cvet-haki-fon.html
 

July 03, 2023, 02:13:58 PM
Reply #46
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eurocentric


Unless a member of the recovery team, or the pathology team ahead of autopsy, had noted the time each watch displayed before thawing out, then a restarting watch will continue on until the spring tension is gone, advancing the displayed time and the apparent 'time of death' later recorded at autopsy.

I've read that most vintage wind-up watches were good for 24-36hrs when fully wound. Before I got Swiss automatics (sadly never anything flash) I recall my own Timex wind-up watch being more like 12-18hrs though.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2023, 05:19:24 PM by eurocentric »
My DPI approach - logic, probability and reason.
 

July 03, 2023, 03:12:42 PM
Reply #47
Online

Ziljoe


It's a good idea to use Google image search to test assertions.

Khaki will find only the solid colour at Google images, or at least it does from where I'm sitting, and that is what I would assume someone meant by it. The military camouflage colours are typically known as army or 'camo'.
I speak about хаки not khaki. I followed your recomendations
https://bogatyr.club/31678-cvet-haki-fon.html

Khaki was initially used by the British army.

" With military roots dating back to the 1800's, khakis originated with Henry Lumsden, a British Lieutenant who traded in his red felt uniform for something cooler and more comfortable during his and his troops' time in India. Using a plant dye called Mazari, they dyed their cotton pants to help blend in with landscapes"

I think it's from Hindustani. There Seems to be a number of origin's. Meaning dust coloured. It was considered camouflage because it blended in against the landscape , although a solid colour, it's better than bright red. Camouflage and khaki just overlapped in language. Khaki can mean military clothing, be solid in colour, or have patterns  or just the colour .

No mystery about khaki.

 
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July 03, 2023, 11:12:05 PM
Reply #48
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KathleenDSmith1


Teddy and Everyone:

I have three  Russia maps regarding the time zone, 1st one is where Dyatlov Pass Hikers were found and 2nd is just the map of Russia. I entered in Google Mt Otorten, the name Anadyr, Russia....Russia has 11 time zones...So where does the "Watches time" fit into 11 time zones..








« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 09:06:27 PM by KathleenDSmith1 »
 

July 04, 2023, 02:04:46 AM
Reply #49
Online

Axelrod


Since Komi(+3, like Moscow) and Sverdlovsk(+5) are in different Time Zones, so passing through 1079 or through Otorten gates will denote teleportation through 2 hours.

 
The following users thanked this post: KathleenDSmith1

August 29, 2023, 08:03:16 PM
Reply #50
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KathleenDSmith1


Everyone :

I was reading in Maslennikov 2nd notebook and found a time (zone) and the date and maybe it could help you with the Hikers watches that were found because of the date search....snipped this section
I Google Russia time and found Khanty/Mansi time section....unbelieve Khanty/Mansi have their own time zone???? "Snipped"
Thanks
Kathleen Dee Smith



« Last Edit: August 29, 2023, 08:33:44 PM by KathleenDSmith1 »
 

September 06, 2023, 07:23:17 AM
Reply #51
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Arjan


Thank you for raising this topic again.

A few years ago I have read a post at Dyatlovpass.com covering the time these four watches had stopped.
If I remember well, this post had described that very probably Thibo had been 'officer for the correct time' at the day.
To perform this duty, he had been wearing two watches as precaution in case one watch might have disfunctioned in one way or another.
This post had also described that the four watches had been stopped due to being exposed to permanent temperatures below zero degrees Celsius.

Suppose the watches had stopped by being exposed to permanent temperatures below zero, than the question arises on which date these watches had stopped and if these watches had stopped in the morning, afternoon or evening.

Many investigators of this case assume that these watches had stopped within a timespan of 12 or 24 hours.
As far as I am aware, there is no factual rule for this assumption, except the assumption that all group members had left the tent at the same time.

Let's assume disaster had struck the group in the late afternoon of 1 Fabruary 1959, and:
1. both watches around the wrist of Thibo had stopped at 20:15 and 20:39 pm on 1 February 1959
2. the watch around the wrist of Igor had stopped at 5:31 am on 2 February 1959
3. the watch around the wrist of Rustem had stopped at 20:25 pm on 2 February 1959

The last assumption opens the possibility that Rustem and Zinaida - hurt in her side while stopped by a small tree after a slide on the ascent from the storage to the Dyatlov Pass? - had spent and survived the cold night between 1 and 2 February 1959 in the tent that had been re-erected on one ski-pole.
Both had sufficient isolation together by all the blanket available and they had sufficient food and drink for supper and breakfast.
Both had been found by the first search party adequately clothed for a daytrip to the cedar and ravine.

If this possibility is correct, than Zinaida and Rustem both:
- had placed the permanent unconscious bodies of Yuri Dor. and Yuri Kri. next to each other.
- maybe had placed the dead and/or permanent unconscious bodies of Alexander, Semyon and Thibo next to each other
- had not been able to lift Lyudmila out of the stream due to icy side of the stream
- had carried the permanent unconscious Igor under both armpits and knees some time..

Due to these shocking discoveries, Rustem and Zinaida had not made the way back to the tent in the evening of 2 February 1959.

These assumptions provide a timeline that may well provide a solution that meets all details as found by both search parties.