None of this is a full shot or in order. These are very small fragments of a film roll that is horribly damaged. Maybe only the "three heads" is a little closer to a full shot but nobody knows if it is first in the roll.Who has the original film then ?
https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera
Scroll to the point where it says:
"Please note that the images above, besides the first frame, are very small fragments of the actual photo. You can scale by the procket holes visible on scans 2 and 6."
Who has the original film then ?
If they were still frozen solid, how did their skin get eaten off?
As for the Zolotaryov's camera: Valentin Yakimenko, who was a fellow student to the Dyatlov group and a member of the rescue team, presented the scans of Zolotaryov camera, no negatives, for first time in 2015 at the annual Dyatlov Conference in UPI now Ural Federal University .Did he explain about the missing 9 (10) photographs from the "Zolotaryov" 's film ?
Look in the case files, page 5 back and then page 6: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-3-6#5backThanks.
The 10 rolls are only the ones outside the cameras. Some of them are blank. We know nothing in the sense how many were shot of these 10.
And still we have only four found...
With all said above we think there are at least two unaccounted cameras in addition to the 4 cameras from the crime inventory and the camera found on Zolotaryov's body.That further strengthens the case that somebody else knew about the unfortunate turn of events, before Fev 26th/27th...
Question: do we know approximately when was this picture taken ? Because if it's the first of the pictures from Zorotalyov's camera, it may come from a different day...
Excellent thread. I've always considered the Plane2 photo (if real) to be pointing west or north west.
But do these shrubs grow so high there?
Nigel - I like the way you think - you possess deductive reasoning and a very analytical mind. I thoroughly enjoy reading your post.Many thanks.
They inspire much thought
Mr. Evans, I am curious if anyone has ever taken the camera/cameras type and film type, up to the the tent site at night, or the surrounding areas to see if they can simulate any of the photos. I know that the photograph with the two odd light has be discussed and debated but I was wondering if that photo could ever be replicated with the cameras and film of the era.Mr Evans? Why the formality? Dunno is the answer to the question.
Mr. Evans, I am curious if anyone has ever taken the camera/cameras type and film type, up to the the tent site at night, or the surrounding areas to see if they can simulate any of the photos. I know that the photograph with the two odd light has be discussed and debated but I was wondering if that photo could ever be replicated with the cameras and film of the era.
Mr. Evans, I am curious if anyone has ever taken the camera/cameras type and film type, up to the the tent site at night, or the surrounding areas to see if they can simulate any of the photos. I know that the photograph with the two odd light has be discussed and debated but I was wondering if that photo could ever be replicated with the cameras and film of the era.Mr Evans? Why the formality? Dunno is the answer to the question.
There's this photo of "a light" apparently taken at the DP in 2012
(https://i.ibb.co/tzPjBNN/dyatlov4-objeto2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
It's from this website which is good reading for fireorb fans - https://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm (https://www.viafanzine.jor.br/site_vf/pag/5/dyatlov_part04.htm)
Dear Mr WAB sir!
Well i think i'm on the side of Mr Koshkin, that object seems to be glowing with more than moonlight and if so you would expect it to be hot and heating the surrounding air with the water vapour contained within condensing at the object's thermal boundary and drifting away as steam.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZWqwymX/dyatlov4-objeto.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Although he should have reported Yakimenko's observation to maintain balance.
On a separate question. Keith ****'s book "Journey to Dyatlov Pass" states that the film strip marked "Zolotaryov" has a "Plane3" photo. Two questions :-I don't think Mr. Keith ****'s statement is authoritative.
- Do you know about a Plane3 photo?
- Do you know if the negatives of this strip are available to be shared, online etc?
- I think that the Plane2 photo is highly significant to the fireorb theory but inspection of the negative is important.
Please provide me direct link to this original negative. Not the image that Valentin Yakimenko himself gave as secondary image, and namely the original negative. It is better if it is with dimensions (in millimeters or inches - it will not be so important).It seems you have misunderstood, i am asking you if you know of the location of the Plane2 negative?
If you do it honestly, it will be very clear to other readers.
I have worked with original negatives in person (in my hands before my eyes). So I can talk about it for sure.
- I think that the Plane2 photo is highly significant to the fireorb theory but inspection of the negative is important.
Then why don't we do this test first, and then draw conclusions?
I'm loving it! Marley's expert post is describing my belief that these photos are genuine. My favourite theory is that they deliberately elected to pitch the tent at that location to photograph these lights (which they had already observed on previous nights) with Igor recording his doubts in the group diary the night before. If so then this rules out military ordnance of course. If you then also rule out YuriK's peculiar third degree burns resulting from a modest campfire then you're left with........ electricity.
Thank you Monty and Nigel.
I'm sorry to hear you're not convinced, sarapuk. Can you elaborate on what you consider guesswork re my post? I thought I was being rather factual. The specs of those cameras are correct and so are the descriptions of lens flare and motion blur. So I'd really like to know where you think I'm making stuff up. That would really help me to improve my theory. Or discard it even, if I missed something big. Thanks in advance.
I'm loving it! Marley's expert post is describing my belief that these photos are genuine. My favourite theory is that they deliberately elected to pitch the tent at that location to photograph these lights (which they had already observed on previous nights) with Igor recording his doubts in the group diary the night before. If so then this rules out military ordnance of course. If you then also rule out YuriK's peculiar third degree burns resulting from a modest campfire then you're left with........ electricity.
What ! ? They risked their lives to photograph Electricity.
And I have more... dance1
[lots of really awesome stuff...]
Dear Mr WAB sir!
Well i think i'm on the side of Mr Koshkin, that object seems to be glowing with more than moonlight and if so you would expect it to be hot and heating the surrounding air with the water vapour contained within condensing at the object's thermal boundary and drifting away as steam.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZWqwymX/dyatlov4-objeto.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
1. You have the right to be on either side, as well as the right to be very wrong.
2. You should not add your fantasies to what was not there. Like something "hot" and "air heating". Nights in the North Urals, even in August, have very low temperatures, sometimes even negative (Celsius). What exactly was the fact of that night.
3. The fact that it is the moonlight and shortcomings of the simplest digital cameras is an undeniable fact obtained from the first source (Valentin Yakimenko). Therefore, there is no need to twist many tall tales around it. This distracts readers from the truth very much.
4. You, together with the Koshkin, can fantasize lot, but it is irrational activity.Although he should have reported Yakimenko's observation to maintain balance.
Then it would be someone else... lol4On a separate question. Keith ****'s book "Journey to Dyatlov Pass" states that the film strip marked "Zolotaryov" has a "Plane3" photo. Two questions :-I don't think Mr. Keith ****'s statement is authoritative.
1. It's a retelling of what they talked to Kuntsevich about what Valentin Yakimenko said, which is no longer original in the study.
2. Keith **** himself analyzed this image on film directly...
3. The inscription "Zolotarev" cannot speak about anything, because it is not clear who (presumably it was Ivanov) and why this inscription was made. This is nothing more than an abstract assumption, considering that on the film the images Zolotarev could have made with very little probability. There are many images of the UPI University summit in November 1958. If there's one thing I'm not confused about because I don't have any tapes in front of me right now...
- Do you know about a Plane3 photo?
This is what Valentin Yakimenko spoke abstractly about in 2013, and what he was much objected to by other people who know photography on film. This is not an image of an airplane. It is a very small fragment of a dried-up sodium sulfite crystal (part of the developer). Its size compared to the window of perforation of 135 type film is very small (about 40...50 times smaller), with the size of the "window" about 1.5 x 3.5 millimeters (0.059 x 0.139 in).
Modern technologies make it possible make any magnifications by digital methods, but "chemical photography" does not allow obtain images of objects in this size on film with such sharp edges at these sizes of parts.
I have not yet been able to convince Valentin Yakimenko that this statement is wrong, but many qualified experts in "chemical photography" confirm my opinion.
- Do you know if the negatives of this strip are available to be shared, online etc?
Please provide me direct link to this original negative. Not the image that Valentin Yakimenko himself gave as secondary image, and namely the original negative. It is better if it is with dimensions (in millimeters or inches - it will not be so important).
If you do it honestly, it will be very clear to other readers.
I have worked with original negatives in person (in my hands before my eyes). So I can talk about it for sure.
- I think that the Plane2 photo is highly significant to the fireorb theory but inspection of the negative is important.
Then why don't we do this test first, and then draw conclusions?
...The 1st frame in Zolotaryov's presumptive frame series is actually a magnified CUTOUT of frame 34 from Krivonischenko's camera.
They both represent the same frame!
..stuff about the helicopter...
Interesting! I follow your explanation, I think, so far as it goes. Does this mean you suspect someone intentionally made a blow-up print of that particular part of the negative? Or is there another reason the frame might be cut?
..stuff about the helicopter...
I feel a little silly asking this, but I don't quite follow you and I want to understand. If the hazy, white shape is a helicopter, why is the whole thing glowing white in the picture? Is a searchlight shining on it? Are there, perhaps, two aircraft present, and one has the spotlight on the other? Is it possible for a light inside the helicopter to shine through the whole thing and make it sort of glow? You could probably convince me that the shape is the same as a helicopter shape; I can't argue because I don't know a thing about aircraft. But I'm having a hard time imagining how the picture came to look like that. When a car drives up on a dark night, you don't see the whole outline of the car--just the headlights. When you come upon a house at night, you don't see the outline of the whole house unless there is another light source--just the windows to rooms which have lights inside. In the night sky, I can only identify an airplane by the blinking lights on the wings or tail or whatever--I never can see the whole plane. I don't understand how the whole helicopter body showed up in the photo.
Hello to all - I haven't posted yet to this forum, so excuse my directness:
I would like clear up a long-time mistake. I happen to have analyzed the frames from this topic over the last weeks. I am currently writing a paper in which there will be more insights, but at the moment I would like to assure you that:
The 1st frame in Zolotaryov's presumptive frame series is actually a magnified CUTOUT of frame 34 from Krivonischenko's camera.
They both represent the same frame!
Here's how I found out: I was intrigued by the 3 bushes, heads or whatever, and I wanted to look for similar artefacts in other frames. So I enhanced frame 34 and noticed the same 3 artefacts at the bottom right. I was excited first and thought they were the same bushes. I then enhanced more, added Gamma, Contrast and Histogram correction, overlayed the 2 pictures and came up with exactly the SAME SCRATCHES. There is absolutely no doubt - these bumps are from frame 34. The scratches are a forensic fingerprint, like the marks on a projectile that can only come from one gun.
As to the origins of the bumps, I can only guess. They could be the fingers (or fingerprints) of the lab technician who developed the negative. I had that happen to me back in the old days when I was developing film myself in the lab. If they're the bushes compared to a contemporary photo earlier in this thread, that would be a real wonder - I know of no bush that remains the same size & shape over half a century.
(https://i.ibb.co/mtpPXzR/Dyatlov-3-heads-Collage2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J2ZSykc)
To me: I'm an image analysis & software engineer, I write algorithms and software.
Cheers, Henning
..stuff about the helicopter...
I feel a little silly asking this, but I don't quite follow you and I want to understand. If the hazy, white shape is a helicopter, why is the whole thing glowing white in the picture? Is a searchlight shining on it? Are there, perhaps, two aircraft present, and one has the spotlight on the other? Is it possible for a light inside the helicopter to shine through the whole thing and make it sort of glow? You could probably convince me that the shape is the same as a helicopter shape; I can't argue because I don't know a thing about aircraft. But I'm having a hard time imagining how the picture came to look like that. When a car drives up on a dark night, you don't see the whole outline of the car--just the headlights. When you come upon a house at night, you don't see the outline of the whole house unless there is another light source--just the windows to rooms which have lights inside. In the night sky, I can only identify an airplane by the blinking lights on the wings or tail or whatever--I never can see the whole plane. I don't understand how the whole helicopter body showed up in the photo.
I mentioned how flares may have been dropped to provide a source of lighting underneath. This brightly burning light, intended to illuminate a wide search area, far exceeding the directional abilities of a search light, could either be a hand flare dropped to the ground, or one discharged on a parachute where it floats down. This may also explain the burning to some tree tops said to be observed by the recovery team.
(https://i.ibb.co/8bxFxfS/maxresdefault.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W0zSzMY)
(https://i.ibb.co/Zdgdsb2/th.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Excellent discovery, but one which, as ever with the DPI, throws up many more questions.
While the lower part of the image, the 3 (or is it 5) 'heads' appears to be the same, down to a scratch here and there, the neatly-edged lens flare in the centre of the fuller image would appear to have been replaced with the blinding white-out from elsewhere, and the position of that light, relative to the heads/plants, is now much closer to them. Look at the gap between the heads and the leading edge of the light across both photo's.
My own enhanced version of Frame 34 concerned itself with the shape of the light source, not the heads. The light in the middle is as Marley suggests, a lens flare. The source of light is broadly similar in shape and angle to that of Semyon's two 'eagle' images, a snowflake on the lens likely the eagle shape.I fully agree that the "eagles" are melting snow flakes or ice crystals. This in my opinion proves the authenticity of the frames, and that they actually show a real light ball in the sky, and not a light source in the lab. The lens flare usually only happens from a very bright light, like the sun. It would not appear from a lamp in the lab.
My own enhanced version of Frame 34 concerned itself with the shape of the light source, not the heads. The light in the middle is as Marley suggests, a lens flare. The source of light is broadly similar in shape and angle to that of Semyon's two 'eagle' images, a snowflake on the lens likely the eagle shape.
It's just occurred to me, if YuriK placed himself at the end of the tent (furthest from the entrance) he could use the gap in the tent normally used by the stove chimney as a viewing portal. The orientation of the tent probably sheltering the same from the wind and the snow. Then he would have a grand view of the slope down to the valley....So this could explain why the tent was pitched with the entrance facing into the wind? Not normal procedure?
Sprocket holes
I don’t know who’s hair it is but those thingies are sprocket holes. When I realized that it was my big aha moment. This is not a digital version of a negative. It’s a sloppy photograph of a bit of film, showing the top of some sprocket holes. Once you see it, it can’t be unseen. These are sprocket holes people!
I totally rely on you @Henning to get the details right. That’s your expertise. I very much look forward to your analysis.
3. When a negative is developed and enlarged, these holes are never part of the image. It would have been a very improper development method, or with very bad equipment. Not really plausible in a foresic investigation.
Yeah, duh. That's the point, right? This isn't CSI. We're talking random pictures here. You know that. Right?
Yeah, duh. That's the point, right? This isn't CSI. We're talking random pictures here. You know that. Right?
Sorry, I don't understand your last comment. If I insulted you in any way, accept my apology.
What I was saying was, that I never saw any photo where theses negative holes were part of the developed photo. When a negative is projected onto photo paper in the dark room, the frame is in a perfect fit inside the tray of the projector, similar to a slide projector. Otherwise the photo would turn out blurred at the edges. I don't know of any projectors that would make this kind of mistake.
. You have a strip of old skool negatives;
. You take a camera (new skool, digital) and make pictures of the frames;
. You present the digital photos of the negatives as the real thing;
. Turn them from a negative into a positive;
. But they are not prints;
. They are photos of a filmstrip;
. And if you take a photo of a filmstrip you might catch a sprocket hole here and there as well.
That makes sense, right?
Interesting! I follow your explanation, I think, so far as it goes. Does this mean you suspect someone intentionally made a blow-up print of that particular part of the negative? Or is there another reason the frame might be cut?
In my opinion: Reducing the amount of information in a photo (cutting, zooming) can only have one reason: to create a confirmation bias, i.e. to influence a certain opinion. Valentin Yakimenko, who allegedly created the Zolotaryov album, was very much into the "fallen angel/higher level demonic involvement" theory. So he found some scratches, ice crystals and dust particles and enhanced them to the size of spaceships and daemons. Why he chose to sneak in frame 34 from Krivonischenko's camera...? Obviously to underscrore his point.
If you don't follow this psycho-religious stuff, you can basically ignore the whole collection, except two. The only frames that seem original are the two "eagle" frames showing a light blob. If someone can find the original, unaltered frames from Zolotaryov's camera, I would be quite happy. I have not been able to find them.
I'm rooting for the chimney hole theory!Haha! Me too. There's something rather artistically satisfying about not setting up the stove and then using the chimney hole for the tripod camera. It sounds like something a clever, corny, mischievous college guy would think of doing.
lol4
Nigel, Your speculation takes all the spontaneity out of the ball lightning occurrence. If they planned for it to happen, why exit the tent? It was the shock and fear of the unknown that frightened them: a sudden explosion, fireballs rolling down the slope. Yuri K. only had time to shoot one photo.Hi there, no i'd suggest that the plan was to observe and photograph some lights that looked innocent and harmless 1 or 2km away. But the blizzard that they clearly photographed as they ascended and pitched their tent was turning up the "electrical volume" like a horizontal thundercloud - https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/types-of-weather/thunder-and-lightning/what-causes-thunder-lightning, and that night they experienced electrical phenomenon at a scale far beyond what they had observed on previous nights.
I'm loving it! Marley's expert post is describing my belief that these photos are genuine. My favourite theory is that they deliberately elected to pitch the tent at that location to photograph these lights (which they had already observed on previous nights) with Igor recording his doubts in the group diary the night before. If so then this rules out military ordnance of course. If you then also rule out YuriK's peculiar third degree burns resulting from a modest campfire then you're left with........ electricity.
What ! ? They risked their lives to photograph Electricity.
What you do not do after ascending 1000ft up a mountain on skis in a raging blizzard carrying a heavy backpack and clearing a metre of snow to pitch your tent with an apex 1metre high and then sharing it with 8 other individuals who are climbing over you to get outside for night time toilet trips is......... setup a camera on a tripod for no purpose.
Nigel, Your speculation takes all the spontaneity out of the ball lightning occurrence. If they planned for it to happen, why exit the tent? It was the shock and fear of the unknown that frightened them: a sudden explosion, fireballs rolling down the slope. Yuri K. only had time to shoot one photo.Hi there, no i'd suggest that the plan was to observe and photograph some lights that looked innocent and harmless 1 or 2km away. But the blizzard that they clearly photographed as they ascended and pitched their tent was turning up the "electrical volume" like a horizontal thundercloud - https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/types-of-weather/thunder-and-lightning/what-causes-thunder-lightning, and that night they experienced electrical phenomenon at a scale far beyond what they had observed on previous nights.
That or a military exercise with a mystery clean up that left no trace and ignored several bodies of course.
Whatever i think an excellent case can be made for them electing to be there in that spot to observe and photograph something :-
- They clearly changed the route and the plan the night before (decided to build the labaz).
- Igor records some misgivings in the diary about being on the ridge.
- They leave very late in the day strongly suggesting the plan was not to cover distance but to just make that ascent.
- They pitch the tent in a strange orientation. 180 degrees from what would be the obvious one?
- They put a camera on a tripod in a crowded tent.
- The casefiles suggest Semyon was outside with his camera when the event happened (think about that, at night in a snowstorm and he's wearing a camera around his neck??)
So at what point during the expedition did they see these so called lights and decide to go up the mountain to photograph them ! ?
Excellent discovery, but one which, as ever with the DPI, throws up many more questions.
While the lower part of the image, the 3 (or is it 5) 'heads' appears to be the same, down to a scratch here and there, the neatly-edged lens flare in the centre of the fuller image would appear to have been replaced with the blinding white-out from elsewhere, and the position of that light, relative to the heads/plants, is now much closer to them. Look at the gap between the heads and the leading edge of the light across both photo's.
No. The extracted section of frame 34 has been further brightened with Gamma. Eventually, this will cause lighter partes of the image to become white. Valentin Yakimenko probably did this to add drama to the thus altered image. Remember he was trying to explain (in his personal mindset!) what killed his comrades. His angel (or UFO, helicopter, whatever you want to see) frames are subjective interpretations, similar to a religious person who sees the face of Jesus in a toast.My own enhanced version of Frame 34 concerned itself with the shape of the light source, not the heads. The light in the middle is as Marley suggests, a lens flare. The source of light is broadly similar in shape and angle to that of Semyon's two 'eagle' images, a snowflake on the lens likely the eagle shape.I fully agree that the "eagles" are melting snow flakes or ice crystals. This in my opinion proves the authenticity of the frames, and that they actually show a real light ball in the sky, and not a light source in the lab. The lens flare usually only happens from a very bright light, like the sun. It would not appear from a lamp in the lab.
So at what point during the expedition did they see these so called lights and decide to go up the mountain to photograph them ! ?
I can't give it to the nearest minute. quiet1
Maybe it was decided before they started? These are university people, they'll be aware of mansi culture and legends, pilots reporting strange lights in this region. Semyon's boast that he would return from this trip "famous" fits with this narrative.
If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?Or equally why not finish of the roll and then change it?
Regards
Star man
If the group had seen lights in the sky before the night of Feb. 1, wouldn't it be mentioned in the group diary? It would have been a significant sighting. If the group had heard of lights in the sky before the hike began, wouldn't that also have been mentioned in one of the diaries? Their expedition would have potential scientific importance and generated excitement within the group. But no one writes about it.A reasonable point but this is the Soviet Union in 1959. All travel requires permission and to deviate the route from a filed plan even by a mile could raise suspicions perhaps with undesired consequences (trip cancelled?). Also Igor was attempting to qualify as a master of sports so stunts like this could be prejudicial. Much better perhaps to keep it quiet and if they get some photographic evidence of scientific importance that this would excuse the infringement. If they don't no one has to know.
If the group had seen lights in the sky before the night of Feb. 1, wouldn't it be mentioned in the group diary? It would have been a significant sighting. If the group had heard of lights in the sky before the hike began, wouldn't that also have been mentioned in one of the diaries? Their expedition would have potential scientific importance and generated excitement within the group. But no one writes about it.A reasonable point but this is the Soviet Union in 1959. All travel requires permission and to deviate the route from a filed plan even by a mile could raise suspicions perhaps with undesired consequences (trip cancelled?). Also Igor was attempting to qualify as a master of sports so stunts like this could be prejudicial. Much better perhaps to keep it quiet and if they get some photographic evidence of scientific importance that this would excuse the infringement. If they don't no one has to know.
If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?Or equally why not finish of the roll and then change it?
Regards
Star man
If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?Or equally why not finish of the roll and then change it?
Regards
Star man
Just thinking that it was dark, cold and changing the film might take some time. A full film means less chance of missing a shot you might want. Its possible he just wanted to use his film up, but if you knew there was going to be something worth taking photographs of, and you specifically chose your camp site to take them, I would want a full film roll ready.
Regards
Star man
With 1959 camera technology getting close might help a lot.
If the group had seen lights in the sky before the night of Feb. 1, wouldn't it be mentioned in the group diary? It would have been a significant sighting. If the group had heard of lights in the sky before the hike began, wouldn't that also have been mentioned in one of the diaries? Their expedition would have potential scientific importance and generated excitement within the group. But no one writes about it.
If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?
Regards
Star man
If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?Or equally why not finish of the roll and then change it?
Regards
Star man
Just thinking that it was dark, cold and changing the film might take some time. A full film means less chance of missing a shot you might want. Its possible he just wanted to use his film up, but if you knew there was going to be something worth taking photographs of, and you specifically chose your camp site to take them, I would want a full film roll ready.
Regards
Star man
Well clearly he didn't and it's not important? I'd much rather be discussing why the tent was pitched with the entrance facing into the wind. Imo that's a smoking gun.
It is strange to pitch the tent with the entrance facing the wind. Perhaps it was thought that when you step outside to relieve yourself, it's better to step on an up slope. Should you slip and fall, you'd fall back through the entrance into the tent. If the entrance faced the other direction and you slipped, you'd slide or roll down the slope. Just a thought...
Maybe he was planning to do just that but events overtook his plans. Maybe he was going to have something to eat first. Maybe he planned to get an hours sleep before an all night vigil. Lots of maybes either way.If Krivo was planning a photo shoot, why would he not put a new film in his camera?Or equally why not finish of the roll and then change it?
Regards
Star man
Just thinking that it was dark, cold and changing the film might take some time. A full film means less chance of missing a shot you might want. Its possible he just wanted to use his film up, but if you knew there was going to be something worth taking photographs of, and you specifically chose your camp site to take them, I would want a full film roll ready.
Regards
Star man
Well clearly he didn't and it's not important? I'd much rather be discussing why the tent was pitched with the entrance facing into the wind. Imo that's a smoking gun.
But its very important. After all we are supposed to think that the Dyatlov Group went to the very exposed position to pitch their Tent and take Photos of Lights in the Sky. So they would want to be fully equipped for that.
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.
Not in a snowstorm with visibility less than 100metres?
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.
Not in a snowstorm with visibility less than 100metres?
But surely if there is a snow storm then it makes no difference anyway. The storm is likely to affect lower and higher ground.
If Marley's analysis is correct, then the key points are:
1. Frame 34 is not an accident, and maybe related to the event.
2. Krivo thought it necessary and took the time to set up his camera and tripod to take the shot.
3. After taking frame 34, its possible that the camera was knocked over damaging the filter. It may ha e been damaged and removed before frame 34 though?
Its debatable whether they deliberately camped there to take the photographs, but its possible.
So what did Krivo take a photograph of?
Regards
Star man
A bright light, bright enough to create effects that normally only the sun can achieve.
And where exactly is the bright light supposed to be. Is it in the Sky with the Sun. If its in the Sky and its that bright then why go to all the trouble of pitching a Tent in such an exposed position. It could have been pitched in a lower more protected area.
Not in a snowstorm with visibility less than 100metres?
But surely if there is a snow storm then it makes no difference anyway. The storm is likely to affect lower and higher ground.
Good point. I think though that the key point is that Marley's analysis suggests frame 34 is a deliberate and planned shot of something and could hold clues to what happened to the hikers.
Regards
Star man
My apologies if this question has been asked and answered. Has a professional lab ever reviewed these photos? Studied them in a professional manner by men and women trained to do so?
My apologies if this question has been asked and answered. Has a professional lab ever reviewed these photos? Studied them in a professional manner by men and women trained to do so?Not in lab, but one guy was doing experiments trying to get a similar image under different conditions (he is an engineer in the USA). Here are the results in russian (he left the topic long time ago)
My apologies if this question has been asked and answered. Has a professional lab ever reviewed these photos? Studied them in a professional manner by men and women trained to do so?
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.
But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.
I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.
The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.
Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.
But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.
I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.
The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.
Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
True. But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout. If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter. From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc. They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.
Regards
Star man
[/quote .
Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
True. But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout. If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter. From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc. They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.
Regards
Star man
[/quote .
Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.
It could explain their behaviour. Neuro vascular damage. Reduced level of consciousness. Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes. The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure. There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.
Regards
Star man
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
True. But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout. If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter. From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc. They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.
Regards
Star man
[/quote .
Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.
It could explain their behaviour. Neuro vascular damage. Reduced level of consciousness. Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes. The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure. There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.
Regards
Star man
But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
True. But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout. If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter. From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc. They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.
Regards
Star man
[/quote .
Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.
It could explain their behaviour. Neuro vascular damage. Reduced level of consciousness. Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes. The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure. There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.
Regards
Star man
But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.
Traces would not easily be detected, if you don't know what to look for. Especially, if you have competing causes, hypothermia and radiation, and you think hypothermia to be the obvious cause. But there should have been evidence in terms of damage to the bodies. Particularly the first bodies found which had not suffered decomposition. One clue to look for would be signs of blood infections. Another, deterioration of the stomach lining. Another, reddening of the subcutaneous skin layer.
Regards
Star man
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
True. But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout. If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter. From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc. They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.
Regards
Star man
[/quote .
Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.
It could explain their behaviour. Neuro vascular damage. Reduced level of consciousness. Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes. The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure. There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.
Regards
Star man
But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.
Traces would not easily be detected, if you don't know what to look for. Especially, if you have competing causes, hypothermia and radiation, and you think hypothermia to be the obvious cause. But there should have been evidence in terms of damage to the bodies. Particularly the first bodies found which had not suffered decomposition. One clue to look for would be signs of blood infections. Another, deterioration of the stomach lining. Another, reddening of the subcutaneous skin layer.
Regards
Star man
Well Iam not a Nuclear Scientist but I believe that if Neutrons penetrate materials including bodies then they have the effect of rendering those materials or bodies Radioactive and therefore easily detected.
If Krivo was anticipating a photo shoot wouldn't he have put some clothes and boots on?
Maybe he took the photos and then retired to the tent only to realise a short time later that he had and the others had been exposed to deadly radiation which would take a little bit of time before the body starts to shut down?
Regards
Star man
The Autopsies didnt show up any Radiation of such strength to be deadly.
True. But, the radiation that would have killed them is the massive burst of neutrons and gamma rays from the detonation itself rather than any radioactive fallout. If they were in line of sight and not protected by the summit of the mountain, and between 600 to 1200 metres from the point of detonation, they would receive lethal radiation doses in a very short time (a second or two), possibly shorter. From what I have read, the neutrons can cause some materials themselves to become radioactive afterwards, like zinc. They would not have been killed by the shock wave at that range.
Regards
Star man
[/quote .
Still doesnt explain why they fled the Tent the way that they did. And the extraordinary injuries that followed, etc.
It could explain their behaviour. Neuro vascular damage. Reduced level of consciousness. Pain as their bodies started to shut down. Other Injuries inflicted as WAB describes. The only difference here is replace infrasound with deadly radiation exposure. There is no doubt that everyone would be affected by that.
Regards
Star man
But a massive burst of Radiation would leave traces in bodies and materials, especially if it was Neutron Radiation. These traces would easily be detected.
Traces would not easily be detected, if you don't know what to look for. Especially, if you have competing causes, hypothermia and radiation, and you think hypothermia to be the obvious cause. But there should have been evidence in terms of damage to the bodies. Particularly the first bodies found which had not suffered decomposition. One clue to look for would be signs of blood infections. Another, deterioration of the stomach lining. Another, reddening of the subcutaneous skin layer.
Regards
Star man
Well Iam not a Nuclear Scientist but I believe that if Neutrons penetrate materials including bodies then they have the effect of rendering those materials or bodies Radioactive and therefore easily detected.
From what I have read, I think you are right. Neutrons can cause things to become radioactive themselves. But it also said that certain materials are affected much more than others. Zinc was one them. There were some other metals too, but I cant remember which ones. Will have look again. But the body is mainly water so I don't think that is affected so much. I am not sure how radioactive a person exposed to something like this would become. But remember the pathologists, were required to sign documents which may have prevented full disclosure of what they found, and we are still missing the toxicology report.
The other things I have mentioned are documented effects of exposure.
Regards
Star man
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.
But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.
I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.
The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.
Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.
Maybe we are looking at frame 34 tge wrong way? Turn it 90 degrees clockwise.
Regards
Star man
Just to add here, in reference to the idea of Yuri K taking Frame 34 through the tent flue hole, that this may explain the black circular masking to the left of the frame, and also how the rest of the image is 'clean', free from swirling snow or even snow on the lens if taken outside.
But that doesn't explain why Yuri K didn't centre frame and focus his shot, and I believe that may be because he wasn't looking through the viewfinder to compose it, he had simply raised his tripod/camera up into the tent apex, like a selfie stick, and then reached up to press the shutter, then hurriedly retracted it before there was any glinting reflection off the camera lens, explaining the damage to the filter.
I believe, as with Semyon's two Eagle Light photo's, that Frame 34 is the same thing; the headlight of a helicopter, that is what is floating down in the image, and it approaches from the left, which equates to downhill.
The hikers had a choice, make themselves known to the military and spend half the night proving their identities and permissions to be there, and show they were not harbouring escapees inside the tent, all of which likely involves being brought down off the ridge, or stage their tent as abandoned/uninhabitably flattened and hide in their trench.
Given that their IDs remained in their rucksacks, and Igor's torch was found on top of 4 inches of snow on the tent (suggesting the hikers placed the snow there, and they wouldn't waste time and risk exposure doing that and not take what they needed to survive if felling the tent at the same time as leaving), everything suggests to me that they hid, felling the tent as quickly as they could, leaving the two ends standing, and that is potentially how Frame 34 was taken.
So why did the Dyatlov Group leave the Tent not fully clothed and without provisions and walk a mile to the Forest in extremely low temperatures ? And no other footprints were found other than those belonging to the Dyatlov Group.
Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.
Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.
The dpi isotope(s) were beta emitters which can affect film - https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zt9s2nb/revision/6Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.
It is a good point. And I had considered and Looked into this. Most of the lethal radiation blast is neutrons. That is why it is called a neutron bomb. Neutrons are not electromagnetic radiation and its unlikely to affect photographic film much.
Regards
Star man
The dpi isotope(s) were beta emitters which can affect film - https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zt9s2nb/revision/6Massive bursts of radiation, even if from isotopes with a half-life decay lasting only weeks, so spent by the time the recovery crew arrived, would likely penetrate the cameras and expose the films, in much the same way workers at nuclear installations wear film badges to monitor their dose.
It is a good point. And I had considered and Looked into this. Most of the lethal radiation blast is neutrons. That is why it is called a neutron bomb. Neutrons are not electromagnetic radiation and its unlikely to affect photographic film much.
Regards
Star man
The isotopes found on the clothes were beta emitters, which could affect the film except the beta radiation would not be able to penetrate the casing of the cameras.
Quote from: Star man link=topic=648.msg11570#msg11570
The isotopes found on the clothes were beta emitters, which could affect the film except the beta radiation would not be able to penetrate the casing of the cameras.
Agreed except that Semyon's camera was probably waterlogged with contaminated water and it contains the most interesting frames. The consensus is that Eagle is genuine and i personally think Plane2 could be the best of all.
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera. Water damage is more likely. Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.
Regards
Star man
Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera. Water damage is more likely. Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.
Regards
Star man
Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions. Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.
Regards
Star man
Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera. Water damage is more likely. Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.
Regards
Star man
Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.
Its difficult to say how much damage was done to the film in Semyons Camera. But its also difficult to understand the images. I think with the
right equipment and expertise more information may be able to be acquired.
Regards
Star man
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions. Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.
Regards
Star man
I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.
Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera. Water damage is more likely. Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.
Regards
Star man
Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.
Its difficult to say how much damage was done to the film in Semyons Camera. But its also difficult to understand the images. I think with the
right equipment and expertise more information may be able to be acquired.
Regards
Star man
But what would be the right equipment ! ?
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions. Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.
Regards
Star man
I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.
As you say though, there is alot 9f missing evidence. And d9nt forget that in a situation where 9 of your finest die in a secret accident and don't want your secrets to get out, but you do want to honour the dead and allow respects to be paid, if you can't make the bodies disappear, you can always make the crime scene disappear 8nsread.
Regards
Star man
Its unlikely that the water had significant radiation that could affect the film in Semyon's camera. Water damage is more likely. Its possible tge shots were not completely damaged.
Regards
Star man
Thinking further a lot depends on the orientation of the film canister in the camera. Could be no water, no radiation.
Its difficult to say how much damage was done to the film in Semyons Camera. But its also difficult to understand the images. I think with the
right equipment and expertise more information may be able to be acquired.
Regards
Star man
But what would be the right equipment ! ?
I'd want them to have the negatives professionally scanned at the highest possible resolution. dpi the DPI. For posterity, to preserve the images, not just for analysis. And it would be easy to have the negative image grain inspected to determine if the images we see are part of the exposures or film damage to the emulsion surface. Once they have the best possible source material all kinds of present and future digital manipulation can be done to interpret the images.
I doubt there was a radioactive explosion, let alone a massive one, because the same witnesses who saw orange orbs from nearby mountains would also not fail to see, and hear, an explosion. The camera films should show this; nuclear fission reactors also emit neutron radiation, so dosimeter badges are used to detect that too.
It's not my own preferred theory, but to develop the radioactivity theory I'd suggest a rogue missile impacting the mountainside below the hikers, the kinetic energy disintegrating the missile, generating orange orbs, and shards of it and fissile material, of limited decay, is then scattered upwards across the Dyatlov Pass.
In 1966 a B52 bomber collided mid-air with a fuel tanker above Spain and 4 bombs fell, one into the sea and 3 others 'detonated' on land, but not, fortunately, as chain reaction explosions, only the detonators exploded. This scattered fissile material over the coast, and the topsoil had to be excavated and disposed off in thousands of barrels.
Soviet missiles would have failsafes built into them, so a rogue missile didn't take out one of their own populations. You can't fire a nuclear missile and cross your fingers it hits the planned test area, it would need to be remotely armed/disarmed during flight, followed on radar, or sighted from the air. Maybe this one ran out of fuel and fell early.
In this 'nuclear missile impact' scenario the hikers would be up there to get best vantage of a planned detonation on the horizon, cameras at the ready. Perhaps they knew of this through Semyon, or more likely Igor's pilot friend, who later assisted in the recovery.
Ejected/scattered material may then account for some of the rips to the tent, all on the downslope side, and it could account for some of the head injuries (I've always felt that rather than 2 flail chests of identical fractures, and an understandly loose hyoid bone after the supporting tissues have rotted away, that it's the number of head injuries which is potentially most suspicious in the DPI).
If some fissile material entered the tent, landing between the two Yuris, that could account for their burns, from close proximity/physical contact. The radiation burns would take time to develop, so that by the time they reached the forest they'd be incapable of assisting in a hunt for firewood due to the symptoms of radiation sickness, and tissue degradation could continue after death.
There is then the circumstantial evidence of locals being told not to drink from the ravines, helicopter recovery pilots demanding bodies were in lead-lined coffins, and geiger counters needing to be used.
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions. Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.
Regards
Star man
I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.
As you say though, there is alot 9f missing evidence. And d9nt forget that in a situation where 9 of your finest die in a secret accident and don't want your secrets to get out, but you do want to honour the dead and allow respects to be paid, if you can't make the bodies disappear, you can always make the crime scene disappear 8nsread.
Regards
Star man
I think it would take a long time to make the aftermath of a Nuclear Explosion disappear ! ?
I doubt there was a radioactive explosion, let alone a massive one, because the same witnesses who saw orange orbs from nearby mountains would also not fail to see, and hear, an explosion. The camera films should show this; nuclear fission reactors also emit neutron radiation, so dosimeter badges are used to detect that too.
It's not my own preferred theory, but to develop the radioactivity theory I'd suggest a rogue missile impacting the mountainside below the hikers, the kinetic energy disintegrating the missile, generating orange orbs, and shards of it and fissile material, of limited decay, is then scattered upwards across the Dyatlov Pass.
In 1966 a B52 bomber collided mid-air with a fuel tanker above Spain and 4 bombs fell, one into the sea and 3 others 'detonated' on land, but not, fortunately, as chain reaction explosions, only the detonators exploded. This scattered fissile material over the coast, and the topsoil had to be excavated and disposed off in thousands of barrels.
Soviet missiles would have failsafes built into them, so a rogue missile didn't take out one of their own populations. You can't fire a nuclear missile and cross your fingers it hits the planned test area, it would need to be remotely armed/disarmed during flight, followed on radar, or sighted from the air. Maybe this one ran out of fuel and fell early.
In this 'nuclear missile impact' scenario the hikers would be up there to get best vantage of a planned detonation on the horizon, cameras at the ready. Perhaps they knew of this through Semyon, or more likely Igor's pilot friend, who later assisted in the recovery.
Ejected/scattered material may then account for some of the rips to the tent, all on the downslope side, and it could account for some of the head injuries (I've always felt that rather than 2 flail chests of identical fractures, and an understandly loose hyoid bone after the supporting tissues have rotted away, that it's the number of head injuries which is potentially most suspicious in the DPI).
If some fissile material entered the tent, landing between the two Yuris, that could account for their burns, from close proximity/physical contact. The radiation burns would take time to develop, so that by the time they reached the forest they'd be incapable of assisting in a hunt for firewood due to the symptoms of radiation sickness, and tissue degradation could continue after death.
There is then the circumstantial evidence of locals being told not to drink from the ravines, helicopter recovery pilots demanding bodies were in lead-lined coffins, and geiger counters needing to be used.
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions. Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.
Regards
Star man
I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.
As you say though, there is alot 9f missing evidence. And d9nt forget that in a situation where 9 of your finest die in a secret accident and don't want your secrets to get out, but you do want to honour the dead and allow respects to be paid, if you can't make the bodies disappear, you can always make the crime scene disappear 8nsread.
Regards
Star man
I think it would take a long time to make the aftermath of a Nuclear Explosion disappear ! ?
I dont think it would take a long time if it was an aerial explosion of low yield in the middle of nowhere. But you don't have to clean up the site of the explosion, you just move the bodies somewhere else and create a new scene. You would have lots of time to clean up the actual site then. Think about it DB. You often and quite rightly point out the lack of good evidence to support many of the theories. Maybe the reason is that there is no evidence of any particular event that happened on Kholat Syakhl. There are lots of contradictions in the available evidence.
Regards
Star man
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions. Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.
Regards
Star man
I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.
As you say though, there is alot 9f missing evidence. And d9nt forget that in a situation where 9 of your finest die in a secret accident and don't want your secrets to get out, but you do want to honour the dead and allow respects to be paid, if you can't make the bodies disappear, you can always make the crime scene disappear 8nsread.
Regards
Star man
I think it would take a long time to make the aftermath of a Nuclear Explosion disappear ! ?
I dont think it would take a long time if it was an aerial explosion of low yield in the middle of nowhere. But you don't have to clean up the site of the explosion, you just move the bodies somewhere else and create a new scene. You would have lots of time to clean up the actual site then. Think about it DB. You often and quite rightly point out the lack of good evidence to support many of the theories. Maybe the reason is that there is no evidence of any particular event that happened on Kholat Syakhl. There are lots of contradictions in the available evidence.
Regards
Star man
Missing Cameras and missing Film ! ? Missing Tent ! ? Maybe missing Diary entries or other written notes ! ?
Traces of Radiation were found at the place of the demise of the Dyatlov Group. No Atomic explosion took place that caused their demise. Its interesting to note that many recorded UFO Events and Crop Circle Events etc have been known to show traces of Radiation.
There is no reason to rule it out and it would answer many questions. Like why they left the tent in such a strange way.
Regards
Star man
I think some things can be ruled out because of the facts speaking for themselves. For instance in a Nuclear Explosion Event there is going to be significant damage and traces of such an Event. We have nothing of the sort. We have no significant damage or traces that may have come from a Nuclear Explosion. True we have some traces of Radiation but that could have come from something else.
As you say though, there is alot 9f missing evidence. And d9nt forget that in a situation where 9 of your finest die in a secret accident and don't want your secrets to get out, but you do want to honour the dead and allow respects to be paid, if you can't make the bodies disappear, you can always make the crime scene disappear 8nsread.
Regards
Star man
I think it would take a long time to make the aftermath of a Nuclear Explosion disappear ! ?
I dont think it would take a long time if it was an aerial explosion of low yield in the middle of nowhere. But you don't have to clean up the site of the explosion, you just move the bodies somewhere else and create a new scene. You would have lots of time to clean up the actual site then. Think about it DB. You often and quite rightly point out the lack of good evidence to support many of the theories. Maybe the reason is that there is no evidence of any particular event that happened on Kholat Syakhl. There are lots of contradictions in the available evidence.
Regards
Star man
Missing Cameras and missing Film ! ? Missing Tent ! ? Maybe missing Diary entries or other written notes ! ?
The lack of good quality evidence, contradictions in the evidence, is either a result of a very poor investigation, done under difficult circumstances, or the erosion of evidence and artifacts over time, or deliberate manipulation of the evidence?
Regards
Star man
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
What, other than national security, or covering up an embracing state blunder would warrant this?
Regards
Star man
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
Yes Radiation is a clue but a clue to what ? It could be a clue to a number of things. Ivanov said that the Geiger Counters went crazy. Strange lights in the Sky seen by locals over a period of time. Pilots have noticed that their Instruments have sometimes gone crazy. Ring a bell. UFO's and Instruments malfunctioning.
I've a memory of someone pointing out that zinc coffins are common in Russia to the extent that it has entered the vernacular = "wearing a zinc suit".I searched online and it seems that zinc-lined coffins are common in many places. They are required for transporting bodies by air, and for repatriation of remains. I think it has something to do with sealing the bodies in a sanitary way, and nothing to do with radiation in particular. I think many different kinds of dense substances can offer some amount of protection from radiation, probably including zinc to some extent, but I don't think the request for zinc coffins is enough to deduce that the pilots were afraid of radiation.
I've a memory of someone pointing out that zinc coffins are common in Russia to the extent that it has entered the vernacular = "wearing a zinc suit".I searched online and it seems that zinc-lined coffins are common in many places. They are required for transporting bodies by air, and for repatriation of remains. I think it has something to do with sealing the bodies in a sanitary way, and nothing to do with radiation in particular. I think many different kinds of dense substances can offer some amount of protection from radiation, probably including zinc to some extent, but I don't think the request for zinc coffins is enough to deduce that the pilots were afraid of radiation.
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
Yes Radiation is a clue but a clue to what ? It could be a clue to a number of things. Ivanov said that the Geiger Counters went crazy. Strange lights in the Sky seen by locals over a period of time. Pilots have noticed that their Instruments have sometimes gone crazy. Ring a bell. UFO's and Instruments malfunctioning.
Well, I wouldnt rule out UFO or UAPs (as I believe they are referred to these days). I have done a little research into it recently and there does seem to be more influential people raising their eyebrows to the latest information. But substantially more evidence would needed. Also, I dont know why any propulsion system or alien technology would result in radioactive contaminants being spread around? Lights in the sky can be explained by military activity. Instruments going crazy could be EMP from a weapon. I still wonder what Kolevatov's device was for. Was it something that could measure the magnitude of an EMP?
Regards
Star man
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
Yes Radiation is a clue but a clue to what ? It could be a clue to a number of things. Ivanov said that the Geiger Counters went crazy. Strange lights in the Sky seen by locals over a period of time. Pilots have noticed that their Instruments have sometimes gone crazy. Ring a bell. UFO's and Instruments malfunctioning.
Well, I wouldnt rule out UFO or UAPs (as I believe they are referred to these days). I have done a little research into it recently and there does seem to be more influential people raising their eyebrows to the latest information. But substantially more evidence would needed. Also, I dont know why any propulsion system or alien technology would result in radioactive contaminants being spread around? Lights in the sky can be explained by military activity. Instruments going crazy could be EMP from a weapon. I still wonder what Kolevatov's device was for. Was it something that could measure the magnitude of an EMP?
Regards
Star man
If there was Alien technology it would almost certainly be far more advanced that any Human understanding. EMP weapons were not invented until after 1959.
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
Yes Radiation is a clue but a clue to what ? It could be a clue to a number of things. Ivanov said that the Geiger Counters went crazy. Strange lights in the Sky seen by locals over a period of time. Pilots have noticed that their Instruments have sometimes gone crazy. Ring a bell. UFO's and Instruments malfunctioning.
Well, I wouldnt rule out UFO or UAPs (as I believe they are referred to these days). I have done a little research into it recently and there does seem to be more influential people raising their eyebrows to the latest information. But substantially more evidence would needed. Also, I dont know why any propulsion system or alien technology would result in radioactive contaminants being spread around? Lights in the sky can be explained by military activity. Instruments going crazy could be EMP from a weapon. I still wonder what Kolevatov's device was for. Was it something that could measure the magnitude of an EMP?
Regards
Star man
If there was Alien technology it would almost certainly be far more advanced that any Human understanding. EMP weapons were not invented until after 1959.
EMP pulse is generated in nuclear devices. I would not completely rule out ET until it can be ruled out completely, but it would probably be much lower on the list. But maybe above avalanche.
Regards
Star man
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
Yes Radiation is a clue but a clue to what ? It could be a clue to a number of things. Ivanov said that the Geiger Counters went crazy. Strange lights in the Sky seen by locals over a period of time. Pilots have noticed that their Instruments have sometimes gone crazy. Ring a bell. UFO's and Instruments malfunctioning.
Well, I wouldnt rule out UFO or UAPs (as I believe they are referred to these days). I have done a little research into it recently and there does seem to be more influential people raising their eyebrows to the latest information. But substantially more evidence would needed. Also, I dont know why any propulsion system or alien technology would result in radioactive contaminants being spread around? Lights in the sky can be explained by military activity. Instruments going crazy could be EMP from a weapon. I still wonder what Kolevatov's device was for. Was it something that could measure the magnitude of an EMP?
Regards
Star man
If there was Alien technology it would almost certainly be far more advanced that any Human understanding. EMP weapons were not invented until after 1959.
EMP pulse is generated in nuclear devices. I would not completely rule out ET until it can be ruled out completely, but it would probably be much lower on the list. But maybe above avalanche.
Regards
Star man
Exactly, you said it, '' EMP pulse is generated in nuclear devices''. And ''Nuclear'' is a vast uncharted territory for Humans. Its one thing to make explosions with Nuclear Devices its another to harness the Energy with Nuclear Devices. Any advanced Alien lifeforms would almost certainly have gone down that road long ago.
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
Yes Radiation is a clue but a clue to what ? It could be a clue to a number of things. Ivanov said that the Geiger Counters went crazy. Strange lights in the Sky seen by locals over a period of time. Pilots have noticed that their Instruments have sometimes gone crazy. Ring a bell. UFO's and Instruments malfunctioning.
Well, I wouldnt rule out UFO or UAPs (as I believe they are referred to these days). I have done a little research into it recently and there does seem to be more influential people raising their eyebrows to the latest information. But substantially more evidence would needed. Also, I dont know why any propulsion system or alien technology would result in radioactive contaminants being spread around? Lights in the sky can be explained by military activity. Instruments going crazy could be EMP from a weapon. I still wonder what Kolevatov's device was for. Was it something that could measure the magnitude of an EMP?
Regards
Star man
If there was Alien technology it would almost certainly be far more advanced that any Human understanding. EMP weapons were not invented until after 1959.
EMP pulse is generated in nuclear devices. I would not completely rule out ET until it can be ruled out completely, but it would probably be much lower on the list. But maybe above avalanche.
Regards
Star man
Exactly, you said it, '' EMP pulse is generated in nuclear devices''. And ''Nuclear'' is a vast uncharted territory for Humans. Its one thing to make explosions with Nuclear Devices its another to harness the Energy with Nuclear Devices. Any advanced Alien lifeforms would almost certainly have gone down that road long ago.
Not sure what point you are making DB? Humans have harnessed nuclear energy, and weapons? I would imagine that any ET capable of visiting our planet would have technology far beyond nuclear fission, or fusion. Probably antimatter technology, or using quantum entanglement, or spacetime manipulation to channel energy from sources many light years away. I dont think anything they might have would generate a nasty radioactive contaminant. But who knows, as it is in the realm of pure speculation.
Regards
Star man
We know Okishev stated that Ivanov's orders would include removing things from the case files.
It seems that they were both involved in having to wrap up the case pretty quickly once the order had come from the top. And by top I mean the very top of the Administration of the USSR. So that means Nikita Khrushchev would have known. He may even have given the order to close the case and the area for several years. Which is what I mean by the circumstances. The KGB would almost certainly have been involved both on the ground and later during any Autopsies etc. Something happened to the Dyatlov Group and I just cant see how it could have been any thing to do with Nuclear explosions. Okishev may have thought it could have been a Nuclear Event but he couldnt say for sure. The talk of lights in the Sky may be nothing to do with Missiles or planes.
The radiation is a clue. Also Solters statement that the corpses were cleaned up, their clothes removed and destroyed, the pilots referring to zinc coffins, the mysterious way they died, the fire balls seen in the sky, pilots instruments going crazy etc etc.
Why zinc coffins? Why not lead? Wouldn't that be better?
Regards
Star man
Yes Radiation is a clue but a clue to what ? It could be a clue to a number of things. Ivanov said that the Geiger Counters went crazy. Strange lights in the Sky seen by locals over a period of time. Pilots have noticed that their Instruments have sometimes gone crazy. Ring a bell. UFO's and Instruments malfunctioning.
Well, I wouldnt rule out UFO or UAPs (as I believe they are referred to these days). I have done a little research into it recently and there does seem to be more influential people raising their eyebrows to the latest information. But substantially more evidence would needed. Also, I dont know why any propulsion system or alien technology would result in radioactive contaminants being spread around? Lights in the sky can be explained by military activity. Instruments going crazy could be EMP from a weapon. I still wonder what Kolevatov's device was for. Was it something that could measure the magnitude of an EMP?
Regards
Star man
If there was Alien technology it would almost certainly be far more advanced that any Human understanding. EMP weapons were not invented until after 1959.
EMP pulse is generated in nuclear devices. I would not completely rule out ET until it can be ruled out completely, but it would probably be much lower on the list. But maybe above avalanche.
Regards
Star man
Exactly, you said it, '' EMP pulse is generated in nuclear devices''. And ''Nuclear'' is a vast uncharted territory for Humans. Its one thing to make explosions with Nuclear Devices its another to harness the Energy with Nuclear Devices. Any advanced Alien lifeforms would almost certainly have gone down that road long ago.
Not sure what point you are making DB? Humans have harnessed nuclear energy, and weapons? I would imagine that any ET capable of visiting our planet would have technology far beyond nuclear fission, or fusion. Probably antimatter technology, or using quantum entanglement, or spacetime manipulation to channel energy from sources many light years away. I dont think anything they might have would generate a nasty radioactive contaminant. But who knows, as it is in the realm of pure speculation.
Regards
Star man
Well Humans may have started to explore the Atom and its parts but its still relatively early days. There are things yet to be discovered.
Why have these photos not been examined in a professional lab by men and women who are EXPERTS in their field?
@time2fly
Because of the information you discovered about the the "three heads" picture I'm very skeptical that any of the alleged pictures presented by Valentin Yakimenko are actually from the camera on Zolotaryov's body.
Looking through the other rolls of film, there are lots of spots and defects that could, when magnified, look exactly like the pictures Yakimenko presented.
What does UAPs mean?
Unidentified ___? photographs?
Capturing a meteorite or nuclear explosion on the cameras they had would have been almost impossible anyway, it would probably just result in a completely overexposed white photo, like trying to photograph the Sun.Not quite : They had manual film camera, not modern ones. No automatics settings. If the camera was set to take day-time picture, the picture would be overall under-exposed. Still, it's true the core of the light spot could be over-exposed, but not automatically depending on the light.
I see. Now I have read the US government's pre-assessment of UAP/UFO phenomena: https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf (https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf)
Contains virtually no information, but still worth a read it's quite short.
To me the witness accounts in the Dyatlov case about "UAP"s just don't add up. Some are clearly describing a meteorite/space debris/rocket stage burning up in the atmosphere. But there is the account of the sky looking like an imminent collision with another planet? And the bright "divine presence" lingering for minutes among the mountains? Others appear to describe atmospheric nuclear tests but there were none conducted during the DPI. And then there is the "searchlight reacting to human gaze"..
It's hard to tell which ones are genuine contemporary observations and which ones are from people trying to seek attention...
Nevertheless the photographs are nothing but magnified dust and scratches on the film. Capturing a meteorite or nuclear explosion on the cameras they had would have been almost impossible anyway, it would probably just result in a completely overexposed white photo, like trying to photograph the Sun.