Theories Discussion > KGB / Radiation / Military involvement
Radiation from potash?
Ryan:
--- Quote from: Teddy on January 17, 2023, 12:33:16 AM ---They could have been covered like spread over, the clothes that were contaminated belonged to two people only https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#radioactiveclothes.
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Teddy, for the responses.
I believe there is a serious misunderstanding around Levashov’s radiation testing report. Radiation measurement is a part of my university studies. I have had coursework specific to the kind of data presented in Levashov’s report.
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743
Levashov tested 9 clothing samples, with at least one piece of clothing from each of the four ravine bodies. The results show that all nine clothing samples had radioactive contamination on them that significantly exceeded the natural background radiation one would expect to measure.
Levashov then subtracted the background, corrected for detector efficiency and geometry, and produced a normalized number of beta counts per minute for a 150 cm^2 sample. The 9 clothing samples had results ranging from 600 to 9900. Again, this is after background was subtracted. These results are all statistically significant.
It appears the Soviet nuclear industry has a sanitation standard, where >= 5000 counts per minute per 150 cm^2 is in acceptable for nuclear workers. According to that standard, three of the nine clothing samples, worn by just two of the hikers (Kolevatov and Dubinina) met or exceeded the limit. That does not mean Zolotaryov and Thibault-Brignoles weren’t contaminated! It just means that their clothing wasn’t contaminated beyond what a nuclear worker could acceptably receive in a shift.
But these are hikers, not nuclear workers! Any significant radioactive contamination should be cause to question what happened. This is especially true when one considers that the radiation measured was beta only, which excludes common naturally occurring alpha emitters like radium, thorium, and uranium.
So please, let’s stop the misinformation that only two of the ravine bodies were contaminated. All nine pieces of clothing on all four hikers were measurably contaminated! Some were just more contaminated than others.
Ryan:
--- Quote from: Teddy on January 17, 2023, 12:47:29 AM ---It didn't just happened someone to have Geiger counter, it was a big device back in the days, and Kikoin, a professor in 1959 was called on purpose. The question is why. It was a not a routine practice to bring a device like that. You needed to make a request and it comes with an expert.
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Geiger counters for surveying radiation would have been man-portable at the time. I believe this model military Geiger counter might have been available in 1959:
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/southrad/russian-dp5a.html
Still, search and rescue workers travel light and take nothing unnecessary. One of the things that stunned me most about the DPI is why anyone would have even thought to test the bodies for radiation.
I don’t know why Kikoin would have been called in to test the bodies for radiation. But it seems clear that once the bodies were determined to be radioactive, criminal procedure seems to obligate Ivanov to have Levashov perform the tests that he did on the bodies and on the clothing at his Sverdlovsk lab.
Given that the bodies were recovered at different times, is it known whether any Geiger counter scans were attempted on any of the first five bodies found?
Given that all four bodies in the ravine had contaminated clothing, it begs the question of whether the other 5 did too and they just weren’t tested, or if the radiation was confined to the ravine.
Missi:
You are definitely right concerning the contamination of the samples. But I think that the expert stated that not all parts of the clothes were radioactive.
--- Quote ---As stated in the conclusion, there is a contamination of radioactive substances (substance) by the beta emitters of individual, selectable areas of clothing, sent samples.
--- End quote ---
This is from the additional questions posed on the expert as you can find in the case files: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743
Ryan:
--- Quote from: Teddy on January 17, 2023, 12:39:19 AM ---Wow. If only Igor were alive to comment on this. It's a very interesting idea.
Only till now I imagined the conspirators didn't mean to do something so horrific but wanted the bodies to be found only tried to avoid implication. Poring chemicals to speed the decomposition of the corpses kind of crosses the line.
Let me take care of the shooting and I will get back to it.
--- End quote ---
I agree, this is pretty dark and sinister. My thought process here was essentially working backwards:
Your 1079 theory explains so much about the injuries and ties up a lot of loose ends, but I really want a satisfying explanation for the radiation. Levashov’s report on radiation is so specific, quantified, and unusual that I can’t just dismiss it. There is no reason for him to lie (and criminal penalties if he did.)
Most common radioactive substances (radium watches, thorium lantern mantles, uranium) primarily emit alpha, and can be eliminated.
Man-made pure beta emitters like Sr-90 are not obtainable by the general public and don’t just randomly contaminate people. Nuclear tests, dirty bombs, etc. require vast military conspiracies to explain. I’d like to see a relatively simple answer.
I realized naturally occurring potassium is radioactive, and after doing some math, saw that while it is a beta and gamma emitter, the gamma dose associated with the beta doses Levashov was measuring would not be measurable with the Geiger counters they have.
The most radioactive clothing found, Dubinina’s brown sweater, would need 3 grams of elemental potassium retained in 75 cm^2 of fabric.
My first thought was that the bodies could have been exposed to potassium if they were moved in a wheelbarrow that previously held fertilizer. But it doesn’t seem like that would transfer enough, especially considering potassium is water soluble, and the bodies were subjected to snow melt and running water.
Then I started thinking that maybe the bodies were intentionally covered with a whole lot of a potassium containing chemical. Why? To melt ice seemed like one idea, but would that really be necessary when the bodies could thaw naturally?
Then I realized that KOH is pretty much the same as lye (NaOH), which has a reputation in fiction for dissolving bodies. (In practice, it often doesn’t work that well.) Someone trying to stage a scene suggesting hikers leaving their tent and dying of hypothermia might want the most obvious bodies injured by trauma, which would contradict that narrative, to disappear. This could explain why these bodies were found in the ravine, and why they were mildly but noticeably radioactive with beta particles (the K-40 naturally occurring in the potassium.)
A caustic chemical like KOH won’t dissolve the bodies like the people staging this mistakenly believe, but it may have physical effects too. I’m also wondering if this might explain Dubinina’s missing eyes and tongue. I am very well aware that animal predation could also cause this. But a caustic chemical could dissolve some exposed soft flesh, and additionally could account for the more advanced decomposition Ivanov noted in these four bodies.
Ryan:
--- Quote from: Missi on January 17, 2023, 09:01:43 AM ---You are definitely right concerning the contamination of the samples. But I think that the expert stated that not all parts of the clothes were radioactive.
--- Quote ---As stated in the conclusion, there is a contamination of radioactive substances (substance) by the beta emitters of individual, selectable areas of clothing, sent samples.
--- End quote ---
This is from the additional questions posed on the expert as you can find in the case files: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743
--- End quote ---
That would make sense. I don’t expect every square centimeter of every piece of clothing to be radioactive.
My primary concern is that I see people claim only Dubinina and Kolevatov wore contaminated clothing. That is not correct. All four wore contaminated clothing. Dubinina and Kolevatov happened to exceed safe levels for nuclear workers. But these are not nuclear workers, these are hikers, so any significant contamination of their clothing, regardless of whether it rises to that level, is very unusual.
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